| Tuchel - get rid 21:35 - Jun 10 with 6034 views | ITFC_84 |
Another in a long line of atrocious appointments by the FA.
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| Tuchel - get rid on 08:31 - Jun 11 with 648 views | Guthrum |
| Tuchel - get rid on 08:12 - Jun 11 by billlm |
Not questioning if he wants it,
Just would have been a better fit,
No foreign managers have really done much,
Tunchel was a strange appointment |
Oh, he very likely would have been a better choice and fit. But he wasn't available.
I think part of the problem is that being England manager is not all that attractive a job, really. Loads of scrutiny and pressure, massive expectations, too easily hostile fanbase, little time to work with the team, having to negotiate with clubs for their use at all, no possibility of "buying in" fresh talent (unlike at club level), players (understandably) more interested in their club than national careers.
Coaches in other sports have the advantage of central contracts, which gives them the upper hand in commandeering players. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 08:51 - Jun 11 with 605 views | Guthrum |
| Tuchel - get rid on 08:17 - Jun 11 by vapour_trail |
Ismaila Sarr played last night with the same approach he takes for Palace every week.
Would be nice to see some of the more progressive talents in English football, like Adam Wharton, in the national set up, to enable us to evolve. Unfortunately that’s not really compatible with a coach told to win something very quickly. It’s a bizarre appointment.
Another Palace boy, Eze, was one of our brighter players last night |
Which may be why Palace did better than expected in the League (most people thought they'd struggle) and won a major tournament this season.
I agree, the England manager needs a brief of two or even three tournaments to start building towards success. Not necessarily winning, even then. Just building a platform where we can be genuinely and consistently competitive. | |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 08:55 - Jun 11 with 599 views | bsw72 |
Anyone else feel it was like watching us play against the more physical PL sides last year? |  | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 08:59 - Jun 11 with 590 views | textbackup |
| Tuchel - get rid on 22:07 - Jun 10 by MattinLondon |
No, that’s utter rubbish. |
To clarify - you think it’s utter rubbish to change manager, if there are signs a manager isn’t working out…?
You’d rather fail, than act. Is that what you’re saying? |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 09:01 - Jun 11 with 580 views | Metal_Hacker |
Thankfully I missed it last night as I was out but begs the question - when was the last time for a sustained period of time was it enjoyable to watch England ? |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 09:09 - Jun 11 with 561 views | Radlett_blue |
| Tuchel - get rid on 08:51 - Jun 11 by Guthrum |
Which may be why Palace did better than expected in the League (most people thought they'd struggle) and won a major tournament this season.
I agree, the England manager needs a brief of two or even three tournaments to start building towards success. Not necessarily winning, even then. Just building a platform where we can be genuinely and consistently competitive. |
Foreign mercenaries like Tuchel & Capello are unlikely to do the job for ore than 1 or 2 tournaments. The FA don;t want to commit long term to someone who may turn out to be hopeless.
The best thing about the Southgate regime was that he seemed to create a much better atmosphere around the squad. People rightly commented that he was limited tactically, but despite this, England did way better in finals than almost any other England manager.
Tuchel was hired because he had a track record at the top club level & seemed tactically smart. As ever, the bosses try not to make the same mistake twice, but we shall see if his approach bears fruit next year. If it doesn't; it'll be back to an English manager.
Being an international coach is such a different job from being a club manager that often success often doesn't translate across. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 09:12 - Jun 11 with 554 views | Guthrum |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:09 - Jun 11 by Radlett_blue |
Foreign mercenaries like Tuchel & Capello are unlikely to do the job for ore than 1 or 2 tournaments. The FA don;t want to commit long term to someone who may turn out to be hopeless.
The best thing about the Southgate regime was that he seemed to create a much better atmosphere around the squad. People rightly commented that he was limited tactically, but despite this, England did way better in finals than almost any other England manager.
Tuchel was hired because he had a track record at the top club level & seemed tactically smart. As ever, the bosses try not to make the same mistake twice, but we shall see if his approach bears fruit next year. If it doesn't; it'll be back to an English manager.
Being an international coach is such a different job from being a club manager that often success often doesn't translate across. |
Plus the FA bigwigs want success now, before they retire, rather than in six or eight years time. | |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 09:12 - Jun 11 with 554 views | usm |
Yep, apart from anything else, the manager should be English - or English qualified, just like the players have to be. In my opinion. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 09:17 - Jun 11 with 540 views | MattinLondon |
| Tuchel - get rid on 08:59 - Jun 11 by textbackup |
To clarify - you think it’s utter rubbish to change manager, if there are signs a manager isn’t working out…?
You’d rather fail, than act. Is that what you’re saying? |
But what are the signs?
Tuchel has been in charge for four games and has won three competitive matches and lost one meaningless friendly. Is that a sign?
SBR was in charge of an England side that failed miserably at Euro 1988 - were the signs there to be sacked? But just two years later england finished fourth at Italia 90.
And at club management - SAF start at Man Utd wasn’t amazing. And even Wenger was written off and laughed at by the media for his foreign philosophy.
I just think that four matches is ridiculous to start wanting someone out. |  | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:21 - Jun 11 with 537 views | baxterbasics |
I don't know if Tuchel will turn out to be any good or not, but I've always felt it's silly to judge new managers on friendly results like this. Isn't this what these games are for - trying things out, getting to know how certain squad players perform together? Actual competitive results are how he should be judged. The timing of these games is also a facto as others have mentioned. Our players and domestic system have their share of the blame too. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 09:24 - Jun 11 with 520 views | MattinLondon |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:09 - Jun 11 by Radlett_blue |
Foreign mercenaries like Tuchel & Capello are unlikely to do the job for ore than 1 or 2 tournaments. The FA don;t want to commit long term to someone who may turn out to be hopeless.
The best thing about the Southgate regime was that he seemed to create a much better atmosphere around the squad. People rightly commented that he was limited tactically, but despite this, England did way better in finals than almost any other England manager.
Tuchel was hired because he had a track record at the top club level & seemed tactically smart. As ever, the bosses try not to make the same mistake twice, but we shall see if his approach bears fruit next year. If it doesn't; it'll be back to an English manager.
Being an international coach is such a different job from being a club manager that often success often doesn't translate across. |
When an English player or manager chooses to ply their trade aboard this is seen as a good thing as they’ll be exposed to a new way of thinking.
Whereas if a European etc manager or player comes to England they are labeled as ‘foreign mercenaries’. Strange world. | | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:58 - Jun 11 with 479 views | lazyblue |
| Tuchel - get rid on 22:34 - Jun 10 by Radlett_blue |
ANY English manager?
Wayne Rooney? |
Seriously yes, any would be fine for national team. | | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 10:22 - Jun 11 with 462 views | textbackup |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:17 - Jun 11 by MattinLondon |
But what are the signs?
Tuchel has been in charge for four games and has won three competitive matches and lost one meaningless friendly. Is that a sign?
SBR was in charge of an England side that failed miserably at Euro 1988 - were the signs there to be sacked? But just two years later england finished fourth at Italia 90.
And at club management - SAF start at Man Utd wasn’t amazing. And even Wenger was written off and laughed at by the media for his foreign philosophy.
I just think that four matches is ridiculous to start wanting someone out. |
for starters, Taking Kane off and not playing a striker, even though he has one on the bench, then brings him on for 2mins.
That alone seems weird.and whilst we’re at it, having Toney in the squad full stop.
Of course I’m not saying sack him now, but if in 4/5 games things still look as they are then I highly doubt he’s going to change it dramatically for a big tournament | |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 10:27 - Jun 11 with 460 views | blueasfook |
| Tuchel - get rid on 21:53 - Jun 10 by textbackup |
So we could fail to get of the group (in a tournament) then get rid.
If the signs are there pre the big tournament surely you make that change before then? |
That's not how the FA work. Every manager generally gets a tournament (if we qualify of course) to prove himself. Unless there is some other factors in play - thinking Glenn Hoddle controversy, Sam Allardyce for example. FWIW I dont have much confidence in Tuchel. I think he was the wrong appointment to begin with and I doubt we'll set the world on fire with him in charge. But I think we are stuck with him til at least the next tournament. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 10:31 - Jun 11 with 461 views | blueasfook |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:17 - Jun 11 by MattinLondon |
But what are the signs?
Tuchel has been in charge for four games and has won three competitive matches and lost one meaningless friendly. Is that a sign?
SBR was in charge of an England side that failed miserably at Euro 1988 - were the signs there to be sacked? But just two years later england finished fourth at Italia 90.
And at club management - SAF start at Man Utd wasn’t amazing. And even Wenger was written off and laughed at by the media for his foreign philosophy.
I just think that four matches is ridiculous to start wanting someone out. |
to be fair, SBR had Mexico 86 under his belt before the poor showing in 88. Otherwise, he might have been sacked on the performance at the Euros alone. | |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 10:50 - Jun 11 with 440 views | glasso |
| Tuchel - get rid on 22:35 - Jun 10 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
It's a really short term contract though and he has been quick to tell us that he only has 5 camps or whatever it is.
I really can't see this going well tbh, I feel like he needed a decent start! For everyone calling people haters on Southgate, he had run his course and I very much doubt he wanted to stay in the job anyway after 4 tournaments.
Pretty shambolic from the FA as usual though. It was 50/50 if Southgate was going to go after Qatar and although you can't guarantee who you are getting in, this just feels like a bit of a hope and a prayer on a one year deal without much prior planning?
If he can't get a tune out of the players soon, I foresee problems and I wouldn't even rule out something crazy happening like him just walking away. We have had plenty of drama with England managers before, so crazier things have happened.
I will actually watch the highlights later I am more curious that if it was a routine 2-0 win to be honest. [Post edited 10 Jun 22:36]
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Southgate was building towards success but, like you say, I very much doubt he wanted to stay in the job after 4 tournaments because we have fans and media who destroy you for anything other than winning trophies, despite the fact we don't ever win trophies.
It's bizarre. But Tuchel will grow tired of it soon and then we'll be able to destroy someone else in a few years' time. | | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:18 - Jun 11 with 418 views | MattinLondon |
| Tuchel - get rid on 10:31 - Jun 11 by blueasfook |
to be fair, SBR had Mexico 86 under his belt before the poor showing in 88. Otherwise, he might have been sacked on the performance at the Euros alone. |
And to be fair, Thomas Tuchel has an amazing track record in managerial success. He knows what he’s doing, might simply take more than a few matches to get things rolling. | | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:32 - Jun 11 with 407 views | Ryorry |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:18 - Jun 11 by MattinLondon |
And to be fair, Thomas Tuchel has an amazing track record in managerial success. He knows what he’s doing, might simply take more than a few matches to get things rolling. |
Not at international level, not even with a U21 group. As has often been pointed out, a very different job to club management. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 11:36 - Jun 11 with 402 views | BiGDonnie |
| Tuchel - get rid on 22:05 - Jun 10 by Trequartista |
lol he's only had what 4 matches, 3 of them world cup wins. These players can't be arsed, it's June they want to go on holiday. |
Yeah, I'd say it's more about this than Tuchel. Utterly pointless friendly after a long season.
Selecting Henderson in the squad did P8ss me of though. |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 11:41 - Jun 11 with 389 views | MattinLondon |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:32 - Jun 11 by Ryorry |
Not at international level, not even with a U21 group. As has often been pointed out, a very different job to club management. |
I’d argue that CL Finals (as well as other cup finals) carry more as much jeopardy as a lot of international matches - have to get it right on the night etc.
Of course it’s a different job but there are more similarities than differences. | | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:54 - Jun 11 with 379 views | blueasfook |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:41 - Jun 11 by MattinLondon |
I’d argue that CL Finals (as well as other cup finals) carry more as much jeopardy as a lot of international matches - have to get it right on the night etc.
Of course it’s a different job but there are more similarities than differences. |
I think the hardest thing for an international manager must be trying to create a coherent team and tactical setup with a group of players that you get together with for a few days, a few times a season. Most of whom play for different clubs and will be coached in playing in different systems with different team mates. You are then expected to create a winning team against all those odds! | |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 12:09 - Jun 11 with 350 views | Ryorry |
| Tuchel - get rid on 11:41 - Jun 11 by MattinLondon |
I’d argue that CL Finals (as well as other cup finals) carry more as much jeopardy as a lot of international matches - have to get it right on the night etc.
Of course it’s a different job but there are more similarities than differences. |
Not being able to work with a group whenever you like, and not being able to buy in the best new blood that you can, seem big differences that outweigh the similarities to me.
The main problem here seems to me the short-termism of the blazers’ selection of Tuchel. Instead of building with youth (I’m pretty sure Liam Delap wouldn’t have been ‘on the beach’ last night if promoted from the U21s; and many Newcastle fans think same re Livramento not getting a shout while Walker was) he’s tempted by the ‘experienced old guard’ option. [Post edited 11 Jun 12:14]
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| Tuchel - get rid on 12:44 - Jun 11 with 325 views | m14_blue |
| Tuchel - get rid on 22:44 - Jun 10 by vilanovablue |
I think he's trying to stuff out. England have so few meetings ups and given time it may not seem so crazy. Tuchel is or always has been quite methodical. |
What's he trying out though?
What does he learn by picking Henderson/Walker/Toney etc?
I would have more sympathy if he was experimenting in the way that Carsley was but, if there's a masterplan behind his decisions so far, I can't see it.
Our approach is so frustrating, incredibly ponderous, slow on the ball and playing on the edge of our own box without any intent to get up the pitch. We have so many talented players and it's absolute dross. | | | |
| Tuchel - get rid on 13:08 - Jun 11 with 311 views | itfcjoe |
| Tuchel - get rid on 09:21 - Jun 11 by baxterbasics |
I don't know if Tuchel will turn out to be any good or not, but I've always felt it's silly to judge new managers on friendly results like this. Isn't this what these games are for - trying things out, getting to know how certain squad players perform together? Actual competitive results are how he should be judged. The timing of these games is also a facto as others have mentioned. Our players and domestic system have their share of the blame too. |
You'd hope an elite tactical manager wouldn't need to try out the most basic 442 you've ever seen and allow Senegal to get in every time they passed a straight ball forwards |  |
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| Tuchel - get rid on 13:16 - Jun 11 with 283 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Tuchel - get rid on 22:16 - Jun 10 by LankHenners |
No point in calling Toney up to then give him only a couple of minutes plus added time in a friendly. Very odd.
Can sort of see the reasoning behind adding experience to 'the group' but does feel at the minute that it will be a decision looked back on as one of his big mistakes of a disappointing tenure. |
No point calling him up at all IMO. I don't understand how Tuchel can say Delap 'went down with Ipswich' and needs to find a way to be playing in the Premier League while picking a bloke playing in Saudi Arabia over Delap or Solanke. If its about adding experience why leave Maguire at home?
I hope there's a plan behind it, but on the face of it it makes little sense. To my mind I would start with the basis of a likely world cup team and work backwards from there. There should always be room to adjust based on next seasons form and what not, but bring 2 or 3 in at a time to see them among a core of regulars. I'm not sure what's to gain with so much rotation. Defensively especially, I'd wager the back 4 & keeper from last night will never start another England game together. I'd be pretty confident 4 of the 5 won't, and wouldn't be surprised if 3 of those 5 don't. It's miles away from our starting XI, its not a fair test of any of them and we learned nothing. [Post edited 11 Jun 13:24]
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