| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us 18:43 - Jun 11 with 4816 views | jasondozzell |
It might sound strange, but starting to see the relegation as a positive.
Even though there has been the predictable (and to an extent understandable) panic from us all at the Brentford situation as soon it was clear Frank might be going, I think most of us, in our heart of hearts, expect KM to stay.
I think the way that he spoke a month or so ago, with such clarity about his intentions was notable. He didn't need to be as effusive then as he was or as deliberate.
He's driven and ambitious. We know that and I think he was doing the right thing listening to various approaches from Palace last Feb through to Brighton, Chelsea etc last season and last summer. You'd be disappointed if he wasn't in a way. We have wanted a manager in demand for a long time.
But he's also got real integrity and for all his modern, scientific approach I think hes got a little bit of a footballing romantic in him too and is not averse to sentiment (just look at the number of players he gave minutes to against clubs that meant something to them). I wonder if he sees the backing and support he's had here, especially this season which was tough, and feels that he wants to repay it. He's a winner and whilst I think he still did a very good job this season in extremely difficult circumstances, he won't have liked not achieving the objective. Perhaps he sees it as his turn to repay our loyalty now and stick with the project and get us back up.
The relegation and him staying as I now feel he will binds us together even more and it's part of the story and the growth of him as a manager and us as a club again. It's very rare for people to stay anywhere for long now but KM will make it to 5 years next year here. It just feels like the Robson dynasty sort of thing is possible with KM in a way that seemed out of reach in most of modern football in recent times.
This season has allowed the club and KM to get a feel of the PL and the challenges and we are stronger now for it in so many ways. We've done well financially, the infrastructure continues to improve and we've got a strong squad. But perhaps the best thing is it may have solidified the (already strong) relationship between KM and the club. We've needed him and now he maybe needs us too a bit. Had we stayed up there's no doubt he'd have been in the frame for the biggest jobs.
I don't buy any of the scepticism about this season from some. I think he's a world class coach and the relegation and the build back from it could actually be a really striking part of his journey with us.
[Post edited 11 Jun 18:54]
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:56 - Jun 12 with 877 views | blueasfook |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:51 - Jun 12 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Yes we do have different definitions for sure.
To suggest that someone doesn't have integrity because they considered taking a massive promotion in there job and a chance to work with some of the best football players on the planet (which he ended up not even taking) is very odd. But there you go. |
We're talking Palace, not exactly Real Madrid lol. |  |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:02 - Jun 12 with 856 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 19:59 - Jun 11 by jasondozzell |
Gotcha! š
Fair points. It isn't going to be easy but I really do think he's a very special manager and keeping him with us is huge.
We can't know for certain, but I think the next few years are going to be thrilling under him just as the first few were. |
I think we all felt that way for a couple of years. Last season tested things, but I was still impressed either way how he handled things. Not so much with the results of course, but we knew it was a long shot.
I hope he stays and still think heās the real deal. Could he make us an established PL team, who knows as there are a lot of obstacles to overcome to break into that group. Could he do well at a good PL team? Iām absolutely sure he could. |  |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:03 - Jun 12 with 852 views | textbackup |
Going down is never a positive.
3 little birds and all that |  |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:21 - Jun 12 with 819 views | jasondozzell |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:02 - Jun 12 by Blue_In_Boston |
I cannot accept your description of world class coach.
Throughout the season Leif was pushed so far forward on the left that teams were getting in time after time. It was there for everyone to see, apart from our manager apparently.
If you watch a world class manager they act immediately, and I'm talking mid-game. |
Sorry, have to disagree strongly. If you think that elite level coaching is as simple as you should tell Leif to sit back and if you don't you're a terrible coach then not sure what to say!
The whole Leif thing has become so reductive. I really do not buy that is been a huge part of our downfall. The simpler truth is that we stuck to our principles and Leif had a period where he lost form, by all accounts because of stuff going on off the pitch.
I find it so depressing when people think that KM not making the same subs as they would do at the same time is some kind of evidence of him being flawed!
He's a world class coach. Watch him over the next three years! | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:23 - Jun 12 with 817 views | jasondozzell |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:20 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
"But he's also got real integrity"
His ass was practically in the manager's chair at Palace by all accounts. Whatever made him back out at the last minute is unknown but the fact it got that far doesn't shout "integrity" to me. |
He listened to a big job offer that might have been a good move for his career. Doing so does not mean he lacks integrity. | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:25 - Jun 12 with 805 views | jasondozzell |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:36 - Jun 12 by Churchman |
I agree with this, but not all of your OP.
I cannot agree relegation is a good thing. It never is, even though it was highly likely from the off. My disappointment is deepened by the way in which the team collapsed second half of the season. There were few games where we truly competed and sustaining ourselves in the PL looks further away to me than it did last August. Not least because itās obvious how far ahead even clubs like Brentford are.
The other factor in relegation is the team being torn apart. McKenna never actually built a team last season. They were a collection of individuals thrown together in a gallant, worthy attempt to stay in there. There are a few players who are loyal/like being at the club but for most itās a job to them. Easy money? Stepping stone? Agent driven? Who knows but I would bet my back teeth that first decent offer most of last seasons recruits and ignored players like Broadhead, theyāll be agitating for a move. Itās what modern football is.
Kieran McKenna? I like to think heās all you suggest he might be, but I donāt know the bloke. As for his coaching and management his record speaks for itself. Who better for our club? Thereās lots to like and he will have learned loads this season. Letās face it, like all of us heās made mistakes.
Perhaps KM really will go to an established PL club. Who knows. If he does, itāll be understandable and thanks for all youāve done. Our club will move on. Itās far more important than any individual including him.
This is a picture of a moment in time and by my standards a negative one. Itās not intended to be because if the owners are still committed to the club (a big āifā), then it will continue to grow which is what matters to me.
One thing last season shone a light on is how far behind the club is on just about everything including scouting, developing its own players, facilities, infrastructure, possibly medical care, you name it. You have to have a starting point and in many ways this is it.
Iām the first to recognise what state dementor Evans left the club in and how far it has progressed with Gamechanger and the CEO. Itās been beyond my wildest dreams. So big picture terms, itās very much positive, but it is time to move it forward again and look to the future, given thereās so much to do.
We may start the season well and be all aboard HMS PTL, but in my view, relegation is never anything but a bad thing. |
Very fair points. And I absolutely agree about no individual being bigger than the club.
I think KM will show us all how special he is yet again. I really believe that.
There's lots of work to be done, but I can't see anything but further progress under KM. | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:26 - Jun 12 with 804 views | jasondozzell |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:36 - Jun 12 by NthQldITFC |
Those particular fans won't be so shouty/pointy/stampy next season when the machine starts to roll. |
Nicely put!!!! | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:33 - Jun 12 with 780 views | textbackup |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:18 - Jun 12 by tractorboy1978 |
I think a lot of people are going to look complete tits next season re Philogene. |
You mean to say a Ā£20m player might look good in the Championship? Well I never | |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:37 - Jun 12 with 780 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:21 - Jun 12 by jasondozzell |
Sorry, have to disagree strongly. If you think that elite level coaching is as simple as you should tell Leif to sit back and if you don't you're a terrible coach then not sure what to say!
The whole Leif thing has become so reductive. I really do not buy that is been a huge part of our downfall. The simpler truth is that we stuck to our principles and Leif had a period where he lost form, by all accounts because of stuff going on off the pitch.
I find it so depressing when people think that KM not making the same subs as they would do at the same time is some kind of evidence of him being flawed!
He's a world class coach. Watch him over the next three years! |
Our biggest problem was we didn't have a younger, more athletic version of Luongo to cover Leif this season. Presumably that was what Phillips was signed for but he was a disaster signing.
Leif created the 9th most chances in the division (61) and the most chances created by a full back. |  | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:46 - Jun 12 with 776 views | jasondozzell |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:39 - Jun 12 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
What a load of waffle that is.
That Palace job would have been a HUGE promotion for him. A chance at the time to work with Eze Olise Mateta Wharton Guehi, I'm sure he did get close, not many managers in his position anywhere in the world would have turned that down and he chose to back out to see out the project here.
Integrity is about more than that as well, and the way KM carries himself and by all accounts treats other people, I would say he absolutely has integrity. |
Well said. š | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:56 - Jun 12 with 774 views | blueasfook |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:46 - Jun 12 by jasondozzell |
Well said. š |
So if your wife nearly ran off with another bloke and was on the verge of moving in with him, but then at the last minute came back, you'd say she had integrity right? | |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:56 - Jun 12 with 751 views | TractorWood |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:18 - Jun 12 by tractorboy1978 |
I think a lot of people are going to look complete tits next season re Philogene. |
A Ā£20m winger bought from a decent prem side SHOULD tear the championship to pieces. Expectations are at this level already. |  |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 11:07 - Jun 12 with 719 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:56 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
So if your wife nearly ran off with another bloke and was on the verge of moving in with him, but then at the last minute came back, you'd say she had integrity right? |
Very odd post
It is ok to be wrong. [Post edited 12 Jun 11:07]
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 11:08 - Jun 12 with 714 views | jasondozzell |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:56 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
So if your wife nearly ran off with another bloke and was on the verge of moving in with him, but then at the last minute came back, you'd say she had integrity right? |
Have you ever changed jobs? | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 12:02 - Jun 12 with 661 views | MattinLondon |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:56 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
So if your wife nearly ran off with another bloke and was on the verge of moving in with him, but then at the last minute came back, you'd say she had integrity right? |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 07:37 - Jun 13 with 553 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:34 - Jun 12 by NthQldITFC |
You do, though, have to take into account the context of how the team overall is set up and the cost/benefit balance of having Davis pushed forward and requiring the back line and RM to rotate around to cover - that's how we played, and if you say "just tell him to stay back more" you totally screw up the whole system. You can't just look at one aspect without considering the pros and cons for the whole.
If you honestly think it's something that everyone could see apart from McKenna, well... |
I'm sure he could see it. Is it then a case he has no Plan B or pure stubbornness?
It wasn't working, we conceded far more chances and goals than we scored by playing that way. The risk far outweighed the rewards. | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 08:00 - Jun 13 with 541 views | NthQldITFC |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 07:37 - Jun 13 by Blue_In_Boston |
I'm sure he could see it. Is it then a case he has no Plan B or pure stubbornness?
It wasn't working, we conceded far more chances and goals than we scored by playing that way. The risk far outweighed the rewards. |
We conceded far more chances and goals than we scored full stop. The strategic impact of any particular tactic is felt across the whole pitch - player 1 pulls opponent A out of position, so opponent B has to cover, and opponent C has to drop back in turn, then player 2 has loads of room on the right wing - you can't just look at one area and say this causes that.
The way teams play these days, with great fitness and at speed for 90 minutes the whole team is a constant dynamic entity, there are no right wingers taking it easy while the opposition are attacking down the left, or keepers leaning against the post having a fag while their forwards are on the attack.
(As usual, there's a bit of both here - I agree with you to a small extent, but it's too tunnel-visioned to focus on it the way you have.) |  |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 06:38 - Jun 14 with 390 views | Blue_Heath |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 09:32 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
To be fair though, both Saints and Leicester tried changing manager and it didn't work for them. |
except when they played us! | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:31 - Jun 14 with 307 views | Benters |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:03 - Jun 12 by textbackup |
Going down is never a positive.
3 little birds and all that |
This. |  |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 13:13 - Jun 14 with 229 views | darkhorse28 |
Wouldnāt a āworld class coachā with those resources have done significantly better?
Like Pereira for example. Won trophies all over the world.
Theyāre nice sentiment, but they donāt hold up to much scrutiny, Iām not sure if integrity was a leading trait, you spend all last summer getting the club to invest so much, which was a risk, that will have huge consequences.
If heās so high on integrity, why hasnāt he qualified his position. Heās bookies leading external candidateā¦, and IF he stays, it wonāt be loyalty, it will be because heās paid twice as much as Frank, and three times more than Andrewās will be paid..,, heās clearly talking to Brentford, and last summer it would have been really difficult for the club to say we canāt meet his demands, but that would have been a much better long term decision (in the context of where we are).
McKenna could be world class, heās 39, very young, but heās miles off at the minute, thatās not an opinion, itās what every measure says, not the least the group looking worse the longer he has them.., Ruud wouldnāt be qualified as āworld classā but even he did better than McKenna with no resources, and 3 year less time.., thatās a red flag, the various Southampton managers also, better as a measure.
He looked really lost at the end of the season.
Yes. Heās 39, so very very young, and Iām sure youāre right, his best years are ahead, but itās a huge journey to get where he needs to be, for premier league quality.., he can be the best ever EFL manager and never good enough for this level.
Itās the best league in the world. And because itās English, heās competing with the worldās best coaches, and heās way off, a long long way off.
It reminds me of Connor Wickham and countless talented players weāve had.., all with huge potential, 99% of which never fulfilled anywhere near those levels.
Thereās a small chance heāll be as you describe, but it wonāt be because you developed an emotional attachment to him.
Even our second to Plymouth aged really poorly.
I think heāll drop his wage demands, and leave. That will be his choice. They wonāt touch him at the āchampions leagueā salary we pay him, who would? .., itās the equivalent of giving Connor Ā£300k a week because āmaybeā heāll be at that level .., makes no sense at all.
If he stays. And we donāt go up.., and that will be the base case, he wonāt ever be offered a job at that level, heāll need to get a club promoted.., see Rob Edwards.
He knows the talent ID has been awful, we donāt have young players who will be EPL ready in 12 months the, theyāre miles off .
There are manager in the here and now, that are better than McKenna, paid about 1/3rd the salary and have proven records at that level.
If he jumps.., Iād be very optimistic about our future.
A small step backward to move forwards.
Heās probably not the messiah.., he might be a very naughty boy.
Time will tell. | | | |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 14:31 - Jun 14 with 164 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 10:56 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
So if your wife nearly ran off with another bloke and was on the verge of moving in with him, but then at the last minute came back, you'd say she had integrity right? |
What a funny thing to say. Did this sound like a good comparison when you wrote it? š | |
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| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 17:32 - Jun 14 with 102 views | Churchman |
| Relegation this season might be the best thing that's happened to us on 13:13 - Jun 14 by darkhorse28 |
Wouldnāt a āworld class coachā with those resources have done significantly better?
Like Pereira for example. Won trophies all over the world.
Theyāre nice sentiment, but they donāt hold up to much scrutiny, Iām not sure if integrity was a leading trait, you spend all last summer getting the club to invest so much, which was a risk, that will have huge consequences.
If heās so high on integrity, why hasnāt he qualified his position. Heās bookies leading external candidateā¦, and IF he stays, it wonāt be loyalty, it will be because heās paid twice as much as Frank, and three times more than Andrewās will be paid..,, heās clearly talking to Brentford, and last summer it would have been really difficult for the club to say we canāt meet his demands, but that would have been a much better long term decision (in the context of where we are).
McKenna could be world class, heās 39, very young, but heās miles off at the minute, thatās not an opinion, itās what every measure says, not the least the group looking worse the longer he has them.., Ruud wouldnāt be qualified as āworld classā but even he did better than McKenna with no resources, and 3 year less time.., thatās a red flag, the various Southampton managers also, better as a measure.
He looked really lost at the end of the season.
Yes. Heās 39, so very very young, and Iām sure youāre right, his best years are ahead, but itās a huge journey to get where he needs to be, for premier league quality.., he can be the best ever EFL manager and never good enough for this level.
Itās the best league in the world. And because itās English, heās competing with the worldās best coaches, and heās way off, a long long way off.
It reminds me of Connor Wickham and countless talented players weāve had.., all with huge potential, 99% of which never fulfilled anywhere near those levels.
Thereās a small chance heāll be as you describe, but it wonāt be because you developed an emotional attachment to him.
Even our second to Plymouth aged really poorly.
I think heāll drop his wage demands, and leave. That will be his choice. They wonāt touch him at the āchampions leagueā salary we pay him, who would? .., itās the equivalent of giving Connor Ā£300k a week because āmaybeā heāll be at that level .., makes no sense at all.
If he stays. And we donāt go up.., and that will be the base case, he wonāt ever be offered a job at that level, heāll need to get a club promoted.., see Rob Edwards.
He knows the talent ID has been awful, we donāt have young players who will be EPL ready in 12 months the, theyāre miles off .
There are manager in the here and now, that are better than McKenna, paid about 1/3rd the salary and have proven records at that level.
If he jumps.., Iād be very optimistic about our future.
A small step backward to move forwards.
Heās probably not the messiah.., he might be a very naughty boy.
Time will tell. |
Another cheery post. You always brighten the day with your consistency, even if it is endless misery.
Would you like to list the āhuge consequencesā? Do you have any evidence that he was āgetting the club to invest so muchā. I donāt think McKenna is world class and that is an opinion. You have it expressed as a fact.
Please provide your evidence beyond a comparison with RVN who was managing a club thatās been in the Premier nine years in the last ten.
Please could you list the managers here and now who are better than McKenna and paid a third of his salary.
Please could you provide evidence that proves he is clearly talking to Brentford. He might be, but you clearly have great knowledge on these things so please share.
You clearly donāt like the bloke and letās face it anything about ITFC. Fair enough, your perogative, but wouldnāt you be happier on the PinkUn? What do you make of Manningās appointment for your lot? About your best option in my view.
OTBC |  | | |
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