| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... 20:01 - Jun 20 with 4679 views | Zx1988 |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn81g4e0nlyo
The sort of thing that even the Tories would probably think twice about. How the hell is throwing some paint at a stationary plane an act of terrorism?!
Kill thousands of civilians in a genocide, however... [Post edited 20 Jun 20:02]
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 18:38 - Jun 21 with 949 views | Swailsey |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 20:36 - Jun 20 by redrickstuhaart |
If this was the US they would probably have been shot dead. Arguably that should be the case here on a military base. |
Christ alive |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 19:21 - Jun 21 with 884 views | redrickstuhaart |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 18:38 - Jun 21 by Swailsey |
Christ alive |
You don't think that unknown individuals on military bases ought to be treated with extreme caution?
You will note the use of the word "arguably", by the way. Which means, I recognise the difficulties with it, but also recognise the basic principle that if you find someone unauthorised on a military base, they could be there for all sorts of very dangerous reasons and have to be treated accordingly. [Post edited 21 Jun 19:22]
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 20:19 - Jun 21 with 822 views | Nutkins_Return |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 08:23 - Jun 21 by bluelagos |
If they felt they were in imminent danger of attack I have no issue with them taking appropriate action.
Shooting dead someone to protect a plane doesn't get close in my book.
Which is where some people seem to be in their arguments.
Apologies if I have misunderstood their position. |
Firstly I'm glad these people have not been shot dead and I hope they are found, prosecuted and sent to prison for their crimes (unharmed).
You enter a military base on purpose to commit crimes that endanger lives (which is not even in debate here so please don't argue it with the intent and damage they have caused. A repaired engine is NOT as safe and an undamaged engine and planes out of operation is not as safe to wider military as planes in operation) then you except a military response which can be the elimination of threat to the base and personel.
Again the British probably show more restraint here then just about any military. And they haven't shot them. And they probably wouldn't have done. But if they had it wouldn't have been a surprise or uproar in my opinion. A military base IS NOT the place for a protest and entering one and complaining if you get a military response rather than a supermarket protest response is quite frankly ridiculous. | |
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:10 - Jun 21 with 779 views | DavoIPB |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 20:19 - Jun 21 by Nutkins_Return |
Firstly I'm glad these people have not been shot dead and I hope they are found, prosecuted and sent to prison for their crimes (unharmed).
You enter a military base on purpose to commit crimes that endanger lives (which is not even in debate here so please don't argue it with the intent and damage they have caused. A repaired engine is NOT as safe and an undamaged engine and planes out of operation is not as safe to wider military as planes in operation) then you except a military response which can be the elimination of threat to the base and personel.
Again the British probably show more restraint here then just about any military. And they haven't shot them. And they probably wouldn't have done. But if they had it wouldn't have been a surprise or uproar in my opinion. A military base IS NOT the place for a protest and entering one and complaining if you get a military response rather than a supermarket protest response is quite frankly ridiculous. |
This is very true. Can remember being outside and Embassy in London and seeing a tourist taking a picture when it clearly says no picture. The Embassy guard lifted Their gun took aim and removed safety. They the shouted at the person to get down. And slowly lay the camera in front of them. They picked the camera up deleted the photos and handed it back. The person. Looked terrified. If you endanger the lives of people protecting a country you can expect a suitable response. If I entered a military base unauthorized and did not listen to a warning I would expect to be shot. There has to be that deterant.
On another note all posts arguing about the start of conflict between Israel and palestine need look no further than 6th century BC. It's been and off for a quite a few thousand years.
Also we most certainly have helped Israel by shooting down Iranian missiles. Not in this round but in previous rounds. | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:29 - Jun 21 with 758 views | redrickstuhaart |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:10 - Jun 21 by DavoIPB |
This is very true. Can remember being outside and Embassy in London and seeing a tourist taking a picture when it clearly says no picture. The Embassy guard lifted Their gun took aim and removed safety. They the shouted at the person to get down. And slowly lay the camera in front of them. They picked the camera up deleted the photos and handed it back. The person. Looked terrified. If you endanger the lives of people protecting a country you can expect a suitable response. If I entered a military base unauthorized and did not listen to a warning I would expect to be shot. There has to be that deterant.
On another note all posts arguing about the start of conflict between Israel and palestine need look no further than 6th century BC. It's been and off for a quite a few thousand years.
Also we most certainly have helped Israel by shooting down Iranian missiles. Not in this round but in previous rounds. |
Indeed. If I am military security and someone has infiltrated, I have to asssume he may be armed and could even be a suicide operative. Our military are very restrained it would seem. | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:50 - Jun 21 with 741 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:41 - Jun 21 by lowhouseblue |
so when do you think it did "start"? the anti-jewish pogroms in the '20s? we can all play the game of picking an event to claim as "the start" so as to place blame on one group or another. [Post edited 21 Jun 9:44]
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I was responding to a post saying that the attacks on civilians in Israel started it.
Which isn't true.
The whole history of Palestine/Israel/The Holy Land etc is complex and can't be reduced to a single cause.
This is really important and, despite constant attempts by shouty Israeli propagandists on Newsnight etc to suggest that Israel is the sinned against party, the lie that 7th October "started it" needs to be confronted. | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:53 - Jun 21 with 734 views | redrickstuhaart |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:50 - Jun 21 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I was responding to a post saying that the attacks on civilians in Israel started it.
Which isn't true.
The whole history of Palestine/Israel/The Holy Land etc is complex and can't be reduced to a single cause.
This is really important and, despite constant attempts by shouty Israeli propagandists on Newsnight etc to suggest that Israel is the sinned against party, the lie that 7th October "started it" needs to be confronted. |
Indeed. I refer again to the persistent "settling".
If that had stopped and Israel had dsicsused a two state solution 20 years ago, we might be somewhere very different now. Sure, there would be some Hamas lunatics and hardliners. They might still do awful things. But they would be far less attractive to a population not being forcibly evicted, treated poorly, kept in poverty and under control by a hostile force. Recruitment for lunatics is tough if people are content and well treated. | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 21:57 - Jun 21 with 719 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:19 - Jun 21 by brazil1982 |
Disgraceful post. |
Which bit is disgraceful?
The bit where I say the 7th October attack by Hamas is evil?
The bit where I say that that wasn't the start of killing of unarmed civilians?
The bit where I say Israel has a right to defend itself?
Or the bit where I say that Israel should so within the Geneva Convention?
Which bit is "disgraceful"? | | | |
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 22:45 - Jun 21 with 672 views | baxterbasics |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 18:21 - Jun 21 by J2BLUE |
Entering a military base unauthorised is asking for a bullet. In hindsight it's easy to judge but in real time they are lucky they didn't suffer serious consequences.
Hopefully they will feel the full consequences of the law. |
Yeah it’s pretty shocking to me that these people can just stroll into a military base and sabotage equipment like that. Lots of questions to be asked of those in charge there. Embarrassing.
Should have been an armed response before they got anywhere near a plane.
Israel/Palestine irrelevant here. This is not legitimate protest, |  |
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 07:57 - Jun 22 with 528 views | bluejacko |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 22:45 - Jun 21 by baxterbasics |
Yeah it’s pretty shocking to me that these people can just stroll into a military base and sabotage equipment like that. Lots of questions to be asked of those in charge there. Embarrassing.
Should have been an armed response before they got anywhere near a plane.
Israel/Palestine irrelevant here. This is not legitimate protest, |
After this mornings news heads surely have to come out of the sand about security!
The alert status will probably be moved up to red and if I recall correctly that does authorise using force to protect bases etc🤞 [Post edited 22 Jun 8:01]
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:29 - Jun 22 with 459 views | DJR |
The moral of the tale for me would be to upgrade security at military establishments.
As it is, if they are made a proscribed organisation, what is to stop them forming another organisation, or acting individually or collectively independently of any organisation? |  | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:40 - Jun 22 with 440 views | Herbivore |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 07:41 - Jun 21 by bluejacko |
Of course it’s domestic terrorism! These idiots have just attacked British strategic assets and caused £M,s of pounds of damage! They haven’t just thrown paint on a plane they have contaminated the engines (4of) and damaged the airframe with crowbars,if theses muppets had done just a tiny bit of research they would have found these planes CANNOT refuel Israeli aircraft because we use a totally different system and are used in the ME on OP Shader the operation against ISIS! Still let’s not let facts get in the way of pointless terrorism!
So by their stupid actions they have downgraded our air refuelling capacity for the foreseeable future as we are not exactly flush with Voyager aircraft. |
It really isn't terrorism, ffs. |  |
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:51 - Jun 22 with 419 views | StokieBlue |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 07:57 - Jun 22 by bluejacko |
After this mornings news heads surely have to come out of the sand about security!
The alert status will probably be moved up to red and if I recall correctly that does authorise using force to protect bases etc🤞 [Post edited 22 Jun 8:01]
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You're crossing your fingers that UK citizens get shot on UK soil for protesting?
That's disgusting.
It was a poor choice of target in my opinion as all it was going to do was rile up people like you into spouting right-wing rhetoric. What you really should be upset about here is the fact some unarmed and unskilled protestors managed to access the airbase in the first place.
SB |  | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:53 - Jun 22 with 409 views | leitrimblue |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:29 - Jun 22 by DJR |
The moral of the tale for me would be to upgrade security at military establishments.
As it is, if they are made a proscribed organisation, what is to stop them forming another organisation, or acting individually or collectively independently of any organisation? |
Surely they've done the military a favour here by pointing out a potential weakness in their security establishments?
If a couple of middle class hippies on e scooters can just wander in, imagine how easy it would be for serious terrorists.
I'm thinking of forming the Popular Palestinian People's Front later today |  | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:53 - Jun 22 with 406 views | bluejacko |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:40 - Jun 22 by Herbivore |
It really isn't terrorism, ffs. |
Oh yes it is FFS! They have attacked British strategies assets!downgrading our ability to defend our skies by keeping fighters airborne intercepting Russian aircraft approaching our airspace etc!
There was a Govt minister on this morning saying we might evacuate citizens from the ME have a guess at what aircraft are essential for this to happen! Two of them are now sitting on the ground with damage and no frigging engines! | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:54 - Jun 22 with 396 views | Herbivore |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:53 - Jun 22 by bluejacko |
Oh yes it is FFS! They have attacked British strategies assets!downgrading our ability to defend our skies by keeping fighters airborne intercepting Russian aircraft approaching our airspace etc!
There was a Govt minister on this morning saying we might evacuate citizens from the ME have a guess at what aircraft are essential for this to happen! Two of them are now sitting on the ground with damage and no frigging engines! |
It's a criminal act and will rightly be punished but it is not terrorism. You might think it is, but you'd be wrong in thinking that. | |
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:59 - Jun 22 with 375 views | StokieBlue |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:53 - Jun 22 by bluejacko |
Oh yes it is FFS! They have attacked British strategies assets!downgrading our ability to defend our skies by keeping fighters airborne intercepting Russian aircraft approaching our airspace etc!
There was a Govt minister on this morning saying we might evacuate citizens from the ME have a guess at what aircraft are essential for this to happen! Two of them are now sitting on the ground with damage and no frigging engines! |
Let's face it, we don't even really need to defend from Russian aircraft, they send their Bears to mess around but they aren't going to attack us. Even during the cold war the UK and France were excluded from all war games with regards to invading Europe due to our nuclear deterrents.
Even when we do intercept them it's two Eurofighters and they don't need refuelling. No planes evacuating civilians from the ME are going to require mid-air refuelling.
You're using an incorrect scenario and outright lies to try and justify and awful opinion.
A prime example with everything that is wrong with debate in the current era.
SB | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:01 - Jun 22 with 355 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:53 - Jun 22 by leitrimblue |
Surely they've done the military a favour here by pointing out a potential weakness in their security establishments?
If a couple of middle class hippies on e scooters can just wander in, imagine how easy it would be for serious terrorists.
I'm thinking of forming the Popular Palestinian People's Front later today |
I'm forming the Front for Popular Palestinian People.
The PPPF are all Bast.....
(Thanks Monty) |  | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:05 - Jun 22 with 328 views | leitrimblue |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:01 - Jun 22 by flykickingbybgunn |
I'm forming the Front for Popular Palestinian People.
The PPPF are all Bast.....
(Thanks Monty) |
Aarrgghhh, The FPPP, spliiiitters! | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:13 - Jun 22 with 311 views | Churchman |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:51 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
You're crossing your fingers that UK citizens get shot on UK soil for protesting?
That's disgusting.
It was a poor choice of target in my opinion as all it was going to do was rile up people like you into spouting right-wing rhetoric. What you really should be upset about here is the fact some unarmed and unskilled protestors managed to access the airbase in the first place.
SB |
It’s not terrorism. But what they did is dangerous and wrong. The military exist to protect us and the protestors (which is what they are) gave no thought whatsoever to the lives of the crew even if you can justify the motive of attacking something that has nothing whatsoever to do with Gaza. Protest? Fine. But not there, not in that way.
The £millions of damage caused plus the additional security required for what few military assets we have will have to be paid for from the defence budget - so less to spend on defence at a dangerous time. That’s not rhetoric. It is ridiculous though.
But it has to be asked how easy it is to access a military bases by say comparison with how the US or French do it and what can be done (drone surveillance for example?). I suspect limitless, successive cuts to the bone, much of it by tory right wingers, are a factor but I don’t know.
It’s really simple. Military bases: the clue is in the name. As long as people know that if they make unauthorised entry for whatever reason they run the risk of being shot, arrested, attacked by dogs, whatever, they can make their choice. That’s not crossing fingers hoping somebody is shot, that’s basic what you can do, can’t do and the risk you may wish to take. Rules, not least to protect the people that protect us. |  | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:36 - Jun 22 with 270 views | bluejacko |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:54 - Jun 22 by Herbivore |
It's a criminal act and will rightly be punished but it is not terrorism. You might think it is, but you'd be wrong in thinking that. |
Thankfully the Govt appear to disagree with you as well so we will see tomorrow. | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:49 - Jun 22 with 243 views | bluejacko |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 09:59 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
Let's face it, we don't even really need to defend from Russian aircraft, they send their Bears to mess around but they aren't going to attack us. Even during the cold war the UK and France were excluded from all war games with regards to invading Europe due to our nuclear deterrents.
Even when we do intercept them it's two Eurofighters and they don't need refuelling. No planes evacuating civilians from the ME are going to require mid-air refuelling.
You're using an incorrect scenario and outright lies to try and justify and awful opinion.
A prime example with everything that is wrong with debate in the current era.
SB |
Wrong Typhoons need AAR to carry out interception missions as they can be up for a good few hours!
Your right ME ops would not need AAR BUT Voyagers are also strategic air lifters that regularly fly our forces worldwide!
Any thing else you are going to call me a liar on?If you want a debate I’ll happily have one on defence with you,next question!
Why have I an awful opinion? Because it’s different to yours ,I think your opinion is wrong but you can still have it!Or is it awful because this bunch of nutters have Palestine in their title?
PS Voyagers regularly refuel follow NATO member aircraft fitted with the probe drogue system on their intercept missions!(not US as they use a flying boom system) [Post edited 22 Jun 11:01]
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 11:04 - Jun 22 with 208 views | StokieBlue |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 10:49 - Jun 22 by bluejacko |
Wrong Typhoons need AAR to carry out interception missions as they can be up for a good few hours!
Your right ME ops would not need AAR BUT Voyagers are also strategic air lifters that regularly fly our forces worldwide!
Any thing else you are going to call me a liar on?If you want a debate I’ll happily have one on defence with you,next question!
Why have I an awful opinion? Because it’s different to yours ,I think your opinion is wrong but you can still have it!Or is it awful because this bunch of nutters have Palestine in their title?
PS Voyagers regularly refuel follow NATO member aircraft fitted with the probe drogue system on their intercept missions!(not US as they use a flying boom system) [Post edited 22 Jun 11:01]
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That's a fair point, whilst they don't absolutely need to refuel with their 1400km range they do if they want to loiter in the area. I still contend though that in reality they don't really need to engage, it's a game the Russian's play and one that they enjoying doing to us.
Why have you change the context of the evacuation flights from the ME?
I think it's awful because I don't agree with a policy of shooting protestors. At the very least a non-lethal method should be used. I also don't think this is terrorism, it's a criminal protest as others have pointed out. I am also annoyed at some of your other opinions about ongoing issues which possibly colours my judgement.
The real issue you should be angry about here is how unarmed and inexperienced protestors managed to gain access to a military base. If that was someone who actually had knowledge and wanted to do harm then it would have been very dangerous.
I've already said it was a poor target for protest and not one I would have recommended but you should be directing much more ire and criticism towards the military security at our bases.
SB [Post edited 22 Jun 11:05]
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| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 11:16 - Jun 22 with 184 views | mellowblue |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 08:04 - Jun 21 by blueasfook |
Attacking military assets is very serious, Though I'd agree more criminal than an act of terrorism. What's more concerning is how easily they were able to get into a military facility and do the damage. |
Don't know if you saw the photo but security can not have been taken too seriously as there was a section of 6 foot wooden fencing any one could shin over. Even Stansted would be more secure. | | | |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 13:50 - Jun 22 with 125 views | bluejacko |
| If you support Palestine, you're a terrorist... on 11:04 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
That's a fair point, whilst they don't absolutely need to refuel with their 1400km range they do if they want to loiter in the area. I still contend though that in reality they don't really need to engage, it's a game the Russian's play and one that they enjoying doing to us.
Why have you change the context of the evacuation flights from the ME?
I think it's awful because I don't agree with a policy of shooting protestors. At the very least a non-lethal method should be used. I also don't think this is terrorism, it's a criminal protest as others have pointed out. I am also annoyed at some of your other opinions about ongoing issues which possibly colours my judgement.
The real issue you should be angry about here is how unarmed and inexperienced protestors managed to gain access to a military base. If that was someone who actually had knowledge and wanted to do harm then it would have been very dangerous.
I've already said it was a poor target for protest and not one I would have recommended but you should be directing much more ire and criticism towards the military security at our bases.
SB [Post edited 22 Jun 11:05]
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I didn’t change any context you did! At no point did I infer AAR was needed in the ME just airlift capacity that is now down two very vital assets.
Just as an aside the costs of this idiotic adventure is going to be around the £30m mark by the time engine replacement and fitting,repair costs and loss of operational capability is taken into account!
All for the lack of 2 mins research that would have shown we had no capability to refuel either US or Israeli aircraft and we were nowhere the place🤬
As we are now according to Healy supposedly on a war footing how indeed did they get onto the base and no doubt careers have come to a shuddering stop over it!
Red alert is just that if you cross into a restricted area whether your British foreign or anything else you want to call yourself you are endangering yourself knowingly so sorry but you are fair game for whatever comes your way! | | | |
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