| US bombs Iran 00:54 - Jun 22 with 6050 views | Perublue |
Oh .... here we go.
Nuclear sites....3 of them |  |
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| US bombs Iran on 12:06 - Jun 22 with 1214 views | Guthrum |
| US bombs Iran on 11:33 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
That's a fair point but in reality dirty bombs aren't for destruction but for psychological effects.
Even non-enriched uranium isn't a good choice for a dirty bomb but they probably have plenty of that still and it would cause panic even if it's not that effective.
I don't think one can dismiss that Iran haven't previously looked at things like dispersal or just causing panic.
It also looks like Iran might have managed to move the majority of their enriched uranium before the US strikes.
SB |
I'm sure Iran did get all of their enriched Uranium out before the raid. But destruction/burial of the centrifuges will for some time stop them proceeding any further (if they haven't already).
Plus it is now stashed elsewhere, perhaps improvised and more vulnerable to attack. I don't think the Israelis would be that careful about contamination risks. |  |
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| Tulsi Gabbard out of her depth, but maybe right on 12:17 - Jun 22 with 1149 views | Guthrum |
| Tulsi Gabbard out of her depth, but maybe right on 11:34 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
That's also fair, Little Boy was a large bomb.
Just pointing out that it's possible to do it with lower levels of refinement. Delivery would be an issue but who knows, things get smuggled into places all the time (see Ukrainian drone attack for instance).
SB |
In the hold of a ship in port was always the concern in the early days of nuclear weapons. That was why the first UK test in 1952 simulated exactly that scenario.
Tho the effectiveness of a bomb detonated at ground level (or below/underwater) would be considerably more limited than at altitude for optimum fireball contact with the surface. Would still be pretty devastating, many people dead, but over a much reduced area. | |
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| US bombs Iran on 12:22 - Jun 22 with 1123 views | reusersfreekicks |
| US bombs Iran on 09:13 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
They might have stopped Iran from getting a bomb but it still has plenty of enriched uranium it could use in dirty bombs.
With Trump now saying he will bomb them into peace it's hard to know what they will do.
Some of the responses from Republican's are quite extraordinary as has been highlighted. The Democrats and some Republicans are rightly pointing out that it's unconstitutional to use military force without consulting Congress.
All this from a President who campaigned on a ticket of no more foreign intervention and who seems to be acting in ever increasing unilateral ways in order to sidestep historic governmental checks and balances.
SB |
Let's face it. He is an immature man who grew up in a dysfunctional family with bullying from his father.
All decisions he makes stem from this.
Terrifying |  | | |
| Tulsi Gabbard out of her depth, but maybe right on 12:23 - Jun 22 with 1132 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Tulsi Gabbard out of her depth, but maybe right on 10:21 - Jun 22 by unstableblue |
Iran is a very bad actor, and had been causing mayhem in region for decades.
(Irony is that the main Iranian populous is one of the friendliest and progressive in region)
Can’t let them gain nuclear capability.
But this hawkish Israeli government is also causing real damage in region, and have committed atrocities at scale in Gaza and the nefarious settler movement is being sponsored.
Tulsi Gabbard is one of those ridiculous Trump appointees as head of national security - out of her depth, unqualified - she’s apparently blown the entire budget on ICE and US are now hugely exposed on cyber (which ironically got Trump elected in the first place).
But Gabbard correctly shared with the press that Iran were some way off nuclear capability and they were negotiating.
But Trump doesn’t work like that; Nethanyahu needed his own flood the zone moment to distract from Gaza, Trump saw a window to get something to make him look good with minimal impact on US and no troops on ground.
So goes with gut, probably with a green light of some sorts from the Saudis.
Says Gabbard and her intelligent community got it wrong.
In the long term this may be a good moment for regional peace. And Iran with Syria down and Hesbollah and Hamas decimated look very weak.
But I am very pleased the UK did not get involved, as there will be ramifications. |
A well reasoned post.
I loathe both the current American and Israeli administrations. They are appalling.
Israel’s actions in Gaza shame them in a way that will forever blacken their name. Netanyahu and his cronies are truly despicable.
And yet!
Iran is a rogue state that threatens us all and we should accept that this single action by the US is overdue. As I understand it the US had warned Iran and Iran had evacuated the sites. If Trump has the sense to now hold off from further action this could lead to a safer and more settled Middle East. Could the Iranian people topple the regime? I hope so.
If, as the Americans claim this bombing halts Iran's nuclear programme it also removes Israel’s justification for further attacking Iran. Netanyahu can therefore no longer argue that Israel is under an existential threat from Iran, which is his way of diverting world focus on his crimes in Gaza.
All in all a cluster f*** but a way forward might just be possible. |  | | |
| US bombs Iran on 12:25 - Jun 22 with 1113 views | Guthrum |
| US bombs Iran on 09:51 - Jun 22 by Churchman |
It could be argued that International Law is in the bin now. It’s old hat. A product of WW2 in an attempt to prevent a repeat of that horror. But those lessons are for the history books.
Law is made by might and might is right. That’s basically how Trump, the other authoritarians and dictators see it. Nothing countries like the U.K. that can’t even protect its tiny air force from vandalism by its own people do not have a say. That’s the reality.
Back to your point, you are right of course, but the Americans would argue that Iran does present a threat. Unlike Iraq they openly admit they are developing nuclear capability. Their track record since 79 suggests they are a risk. They sponsor terrorism and actions in all sorts of places, including the Red Sea. Whether this paragraph is correct is open to challenge, since I’m only paraphrasing what I’ve read. The truth? Gawd knows.
As for Trump and whether he can order this or needed Congress’ authority, I’ve read that as Commander in Chief he can. But then his lot would say that.
Trump has taken a big risk here from potential escalation to an ending he doesn’t know to internal challenge given America’s lack of appetite for foreign adventures. If he succeeds it may embolden him to go after Canada, Panama and Greenland, but I can’t see that happening however much he wants, like Putin, his Empire.
The one thing we need to forget about and stop hiding behind though is International Law. Strength is all that matters for now. A pity really given the abject state of this country and the world in general, whether it be desperate poverty or climate.
I cannot recall a more dangerous time than this. The old order is dead. Britain has little strength to force others to leave us alone, no influence, few allies and fewer friends. It makes us very vulnerable.
If Iran does go down the terror route, I’d start right here. A PM that sends mushy signals wanting it all ways, brown noses Trump, with completely open borders and little risk to aggressors. In other words, I suspect we’ll get dragged into this, regardless of the fact that the govt are at heart pacifists and hope it’ll all go away.
I’m probably wrong and pray that I am. |
International law has only ever worked so long as there is sufficient strength from key signitories to back it up. If they are not playing (through disinclination or weakness), then it is unenforceable.
The UN is bedevilled by the same problem as the League of Nations, but with the added issue of veto powers held by the senior, now not aligned, powers. And being based in New York. | |
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| Tulsi Gabbard out of her depth, but maybe right on 12:43 - Jun 22 with 1058 views | Guthrum |
| Tulsi Gabbard out of her depth, but maybe right on 12:23 - Jun 22 by Crawfordsboot |
A well reasoned post.
I loathe both the current American and Israeli administrations. They are appalling.
Israel’s actions in Gaza shame them in a way that will forever blacken their name. Netanyahu and his cronies are truly despicable.
And yet!
Iran is a rogue state that threatens us all and we should accept that this single action by the US is overdue. As I understand it the US had warned Iran and Iran had evacuated the sites. If Trump has the sense to now hold off from further action this could lead to a safer and more settled Middle East. Could the Iranian people topple the regime? I hope so.
If, as the Americans claim this bombing halts Iran's nuclear programme it also removes Israel’s justification for further attacking Iran. Netanyahu can therefore no longer argue that Israel is under an existential threat from Iran, which is his way of diverting world focus on his crimes in Gaza.
All in all a cluster f*** but a way forward might just be possible. |
Interesting point about this undermining Israel's justification for attacking Iran. I doubt it will be enough to make Netanyahu stop, tho. He has pretty much committed to full regime change in Tehran. | |
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| US bombs Iran on 12:48 - Jun 22 with 1030 views | WeWereZombies |
| US bombs Iran on 12:25 - Jun 22 by Guthrum |
International law has only ever worked so long as there is sufficient strength from key signitories to back it up. If they are not playing (through disinclination or weakness), then it is unenforceable.
The UN is bedevilled by the same problem as the League of Nations, but with the added issue of veto powers held by the senior, now not aligned, powers. And being based in New York. |
To some extent true, but international law works slowly most of the time. So actions can happen that violate it but those actions also leave individuals, organisations and states that are keen to redress wrongs done to them and to others who are in a similar position. |  |
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| US bombs Iran on 13:02 - Jun 22 with 1007 views | Swansea_Blue |
| US bombs Iran on 10:11 - Jun 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The Iranian foreign minister has issued a new statement on social media, commenting on European officials urging Iran to “return” to negotiations following the US attacks.
“Last week, we were in negotiations with the US when Israel decided to blow up that diplomacy. This week, we held talks with the E3/EU when the US decided to blow up that diplomacy,” Abbas Araghchi wrote.
“What conclusion would you draw? To Britain and the EU High Rep, it is Iran which must ‘return’ to the table,” he said.
“But how can Iran return to something it never left, let alone blew up?” |
As much as I hate to agree with that vile and oppressive regime, who’ve set human rights back to the Dark Ages for the people of Iran, he’s got a point. Israel and the US are the aggressors who need to down weapons and return to the negotiating table. |  |
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| US bombs Iran on 13:07 - Jun 22 with 993 views | Guthrum |
| US bombs Iran on 03:35 - Jun 22 by Illinoisblue |
It was interesting although not surprising to hear senator Ted Cruz say there’s a verse in the Bible that commands him to support Israel. That this happens in the year 2025 and millions of Americans don’t see it as strange tells you a lot about this country. |
There isn't, tho. Not in any sense that he's using it.
Quite apart from the fact modern Israel is a secular nation state, not the location of the central temple for worship of God, which was its significance in Biblical times. | |
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| US bombs Iran on 21:20 - Jun 22 with 768 views | StokieBlue |
Seems some MAGA types aren't too happy with Trump's actions.
Trump ally and MAGA superfan Marjorie Taylor Greene for instance:
"Every time America is on the verge of greatness, we get involved in another foreign war. There would not be bombs falling on the people of Israel if Netanyahu had not dropped bombs on the people of Iran first. Israel is a nuclear armed nation. This is not our fight. Peace is the answer."
SB |  | | |
| US bombs Iran on 22:26 - Jun 22 with 685 views | BLUEBEAT |
It has been both depressing and also darkly comic seeing the outpouring of dread and angst from so many people I know irl and online. "That's it! we're now in World War Three" go the cries. "We just want peace" go the cries.
WWIII actually started 11 years ago when the world basically turned a blind eye to Russia’s illegal annexation of a chunk of their sovereign neighbour's territory and covertly occupied another large piece in Donbas.
To Ukrainians from Donetsk or Luhansk, the war came early. Towns and cities bombed, bogus proxy 'governments' set up, protesters, activists and local elites tortured and disappeared – all against a backdrop of well planned disinformation campaigns.
When Russia took the next step of launching its full-scale invasion in February 2022, it did so aided and abetted by Iran, which provided countless numbers of the Shahed drones that have terrorised and killed Ukrainians ever since.
To the pacifists and those on the Hard Left in the West, apparently this wasn't 'escalation'. This could only be understood by claiming that we'd somehow caused this to happen - as no-one else is allowed agency or imperial ambitions.
When it became obvious that China was supporting Russia in a number of ways, that wasn't 'escalation' either. Nor was North Korea sending 1,000s of troops to act as meat waves as Russia pushed further into Ukraine.
Putin repeatedly stated his desire to eradicate Ukraine as a nation and to then push on to claim “what is historically ours” whilst people here cowered and warned against 'escalation' or 'poking the bear'.
The ageing theocracy in Tehran has only stayed in power by killing thousands of its own citizens and ruling through extreme fear. They know they cannot arm their own population or mobilise them for fear that they will turn against them (and they would). They also cannot deploy their military abroad for fear of domestic rebellion.
Russia shows no sign of being willing or able to come to their aid, maintaining a long-standing tradition of abandoning allies when it comes to the crunch.
The Iranian people have most to fear from their own leaders (and vice versa) at present – and the mullahs will inevitably crack down harder on its own populace as that is the last place the regime has to go.
And WWIII will continue as it has been doing all along - with all tentacles leading back to Moscow with new surprises unfolding as the weeks, months and years pass.
Also, as a connected aside, Trump has shown the world that he can act fast and decisively.
So let’s be clear… If he wanted to, he could end Russia’s war against Ukraine just as easily.
And if he did — it would be the biggest political win of his career. It would result in peace in Europe. It would make massive saves in US spending. It would end the bloodiest war of the 21st century; under his watch. He would go down in history. He would loudly announce “Nobody could, but I did.”. That’s not just foreign policy. That’s power. That’s legacy. That’s Nobel Peace Prize material. If he really wanted it. He could end the war. If he really wanted to. |  |
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| US bombs Iran on 22:40 - Jun 22 with 655 views | StokieBlue |
| US bombs Iran on 22:26 - Jun 22 by BLUEBEAT |
It has been both depressing and also darkly comic seeing the outpouring of dread and angst from so many people I know irl and online. "That's it! we're now in World War Three" go the cries. "We just want peace" go the cries.
WWIII actually started 11 years ago when the world basically turned a blind eye to Russia’s illegal annexation of a chunk of their sovereign neighbour's territory and covertly occupied another large piece in Donbas.
To Ukrainians from Donetsk or Luhansk, the war came early. Towns and cities bombed, bogus proxy 'governments' set up, protesters, activists and local elites tortured and disappeared – all against a backdrop of well planned disinformation campaigns.
When Russia took the next step of launching its full-scale invasion in February 2022, it did so aided and abetted by Iran, which provided countless numbers of the Shahed drones that have terrorised and killed Ukrainians ever since.
To the pacifists and those on the Hard Left in the West, apparently this wasn't 'escalation'. This could only be understood by claiming that we'd somehow caused this to happen - as no-one else is allowed agency or imperial ambitions.
When it became obvious that China was supporting Russia in a number of ways, that wasn't 'escalation' either. Nor was North Korea sending 1,000s of troops to act as meat waves as Russia pushed further into Ukraine.
Putin repeatedly stated his desire to eradicate Ukraine as a nation and to then push on to claim “what is historically ours” whilst people here cowered and warned against 'escalation' or 'poking the bear'.
The ageing theocracy in Tehran has only stayed in power by killing thousands of its own citizens and ruling through extreme fear. They know they cannot arm their own population or mobilise them for fear that they will turn against them (and they would). They also cannot deploy their military abroad for fear of domestic rebellion.
Russia shows no sign of being willing or able to come to their aid, maintaining a long-standing tradition of abandoning allies when it comes to the crunch.
The Iranian people have most to fear from their own leaders (and vice versa) at present – and the mullahs will inevitably crack down harder on its own populace as that is the last place the regime has to go.
And WWIII will continue as it has been doing all along - with all tentacles leading back to Moscow with new surprises unfolding as the weeks, months and years pass.
Also, as a connected aside, Trump has shown the world that he can act fast and decisively.
So let’s be clear… If he wanted to, he could end Russia’s war against Ukraine just as easily.
And if he did — it would be the biggest political win of his career. It would result in peace in Europe. It would make massive saves in US spending. It would end the bloodiest war of the 21st century; under his watch. He would go down in history. He would loudly announce “Nobody could, but I did.”. That’s not just foreign policy. That’s power. That’s legacy. That’s Nobel Peace Prize material. If he really wanted it. He could end the war. If he really wanted to. |
To be clear, are you saying that Trump should order a direct assault by US forces on Russian forces?
SB | | | |
| US bombs Iran on 22:50 - Jun 22 with 642 views | BLUEBEAT |
| US bombs Iran on 22:40 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
To be clear, are you saying that Trump should order a direct assault by US forces on Russian forces?
SB |
No, I am clearly not.
I am saying he could if he really wanted to. | |
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| US bombs Iran on 22:55 - Jun 22 with 627 views | StokieBlue |
| US bombs Iran on 22:50 - Jun 22 by BLUEBEAT |
No, I am clearly not.
I am saying he could if he really wanted to. |
That logic can be applied to anything, individuals and countries could do lots of things if they really wanted to and if the real-world scenario allowed.
I'm not sure how he could end Russian aggression at the moment though.
SB [Post edited 22 Jun 22:58]
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| US bombs Iran on 23:04 - Jun 22 with 597 views | BLUEBEAT |
| US bombs Iran on 22:55 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
That logic can be applied to anything, individuals and countries could do lots of things if they really wanted to and if the real-world scenario allowed.
I'm not sure how he could end Russian aggression at the moment though.
SB [Post edited 22 Jun 22:58]
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Thanks for your input. | |
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| US bombs Iran on 23:12 - Jun 22 with 587 views | StokieBlue |
| US bombs Iran on 23:04 - Jun 22 by BLUEBEAT |
Thanks for your input. |
Well would you care to expand on how he could stop Russian aggression?
You've created a post saying he could, doesn't seem unreasonable to ask how.
SB | | | |
| US bombs Iran on 00:07 - Jun 23 with 526 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Huge risk for Trump this. The appetite for American forces on the ground in the Middle East is ridiculously low on both sides of the aisle to say the least. That may be someway off yet but I can’t imagine this is the end of it. Even though there is a tendency to rally around the flag when America strikes abroad, I get the sense MAGA don’t like it at all.
There is a vast difference from the Neo Conservative Republicans of the early 00’s to now, obviously a huge shift in public opinion in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 to the 20 years that followed it.
I get the feelings Netanyahu may have waited for this exact moment and played into his personality traits as much as anything else. Trump is clearly frustrated at the lack of no deal with Russia and Ukraine (Putin has essentially just waited it out until he’s got bored) and he probably doesn’t want to be seen as showing any weakness.
All that said I don’t think Iran having that capability is good for the world at all, how close they are or were to it, I have no idea. [Post edited 23 Jun 0:09]
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| US bombs Iran on 03:36 - Jun 23 with 396 views | Benters |
| US bombs Iran on 07:36 - Jun 22 by chicoazul |
More dangerous than a Mullah with a nuclear bomb? I don’t think so. |
This.
With a added God Bless America. |  |
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| US bombs Iran on 05:03 - Jun 23 with 372 views | BLUEBEAT |
| US bombs Iran on 23:12 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
Well would you care to expand on how he could stop Russian aggression?
You've created a post saying he could, doesn't seem unreasonable to ask how.
SB |
MK Ultras. | |
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| US bombs Iran on 07:06 - Jun 23 with 262 views | NthQldITFC |
| US bombs Iran on 05:03 - Jun 23 by BLUEBEAT |
MK Ultras. |
Franchise fkers. |  |
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| US bombs Iran on 07:07 - Jun 23 with 262 views | Churchman |
| US bombs Iran on 22:55 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
That logic can be applied to anything, individuals and countries could do lots of things if they really wanted to and if the real-world scenario allowed.
I'm not sure how he could end Russian aggression at the moment though.
SB [Post edited 22 Jun 22:58]
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He doesn’t need to end Russian aggression and I seriously doubt he wants to. His alignment with Putin, his baseless accusations against Ukraine, his threats against Canada, Panama and Greenland suggest to me that a broad deal has been done.
Trump may be a simple, ignorant old man, but he knows the powerful make the decisions, the weak hide behind the sofa, or in Western Europe’s case International law with the back up policy of ‘eat him first’.
In the meantime irrelevant little nobodies like Starmer and Macron run around trying to sound important but nobody cares what they have to say.
That is what is happening across the world. The important nations US, China and Russia are shaping it into spheres of influence. The weak are dinner on the table. Up for grabs, or more realistically for dividing up without creating WW3.
It is not in anyone’s interests for Iran’s mad mullahs to possess nuclear capability. Because they would use it and that’d ruin everything. That’s one of the reasons reaction to Israel and US slapping it around is so muted.
Just a theory. |  | | |
| US bombs Iran on 07:39 - Jun 23 with 207 views | StokieBlue |
| US bombs Iran on 05:03 - Jun 23 by BLUEBEAT |
MK Ultras. |
MK Ultra has nothing to do with this and no application with regards to Russia.
I can see you're not really interested in a debate so will leave it there.
SB | | | |
| US bombs Iran on 07:42 - Jun 23 with 202 views | StokieBlue |
| US bombs Iran on 07:07 - Jun 23 by Churchman |
He doesn’t need to end Russian aggression and I seriously doubt he wants to. His alignment with Putin, his baseless accusations against Ukraine, his threats against Canada, Panama and Greenland suggest to me that a broad deal has been done.
Trump may be a simple, ignorant old man, but he knows the powerful make the decisions, the weak hide behind the sofa, or in Western Europe’s case International law with the back up policy of ‘eat him first’.
In the meantime irrelevant little nobodies like Starmer and Macron run around trying to sound important but nobody cares what they have to say.
That is what is happening across the world. The important nations US, China and Russia are shaping it into spheres of influence. The weak are dinner on the table. Up for grabs, or more realistically for dividing up without creating WW3.
It is not in anyone’s interests for Iran’s mad mullahs to possess nuclear capability. Because they would use it and that’d ruin everything. That’s one of the reasons reaction to Israel and US slapping it around is so muted.
Just a theory. |
Not sure why you are directing this at me?
Bluebeat has said he could end Russian aggression and I was interested in knowing how, however he's just interested in 1950's experiments with LSD which has nothing to do with it.
I tend to agree with you that he has no real interest in countering Putin, he seems to respect people who act in the way Putin does.
SB [Post edited 23 Jun 7:43]
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| US bombs Iran on 07:58 - Jun 23 with 151 views | Churchman |
| US bombs Iran on 07:42 - Jun 23 by StokieBlue |
Not sure why you are directing this at me?
Bluebeat has said he could end Russian aggression and I was interested in knowing how, however he's just interested in 1950's experiments with LSD which has nothing to do with it.
I tend to agree with you that he has no real interest in countering Putin, he seems to respect people who act in the way Putin does.
SB [Post edited 23 Jun 7:43]
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I wasn’t directing it at you SB. Apologies. Just musings on my part.
As it goes, I don’t think the US could stop Russia. The latter are far too powerful. It’s easy to hide behind the size of Russia’s economy, but that’ll grow as it adds countries and militarily it dwarfs all bar China and US.
The only way to do it is by economic starvation (often how wars are ended - eg British blockade of Germany in WW1 and German bankruptcy by 1941 in WW2 after which it dragged itself with slaves, plunder etc).
Western countries made plenty of noise about sanctions but have actually funded Russia’s war effort through purchase of oil etc far more than it supported Ukraine. It’s also clear that Trump sees Russia as an economic partner and an opportunity so not only would the US not dare challenge the strong man, but it’s not in their economic interests to do so.
Edit: never forget Trump’s a bully. He will push around the weak but he will never challenge the strong. That’s why brown nosing to him will never work. [Post edited 23 Jun 8:02]
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| US bombs Iran on 09:37 - Jun 23 with 75 views | blueasfook |
| US bombs Iran on 07:06 - Jun 23 by NthQldITFC |
Franchise fkers. |
I dont see how a few hooligans from Milton Keynes are going to end the Russia-Ukraine war personally |  |
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