| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced 15:31 - Jul 15 with 2449 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
The Judge has been very strong. She went beyond the maximum guideline for sentencing (4 years) due to the social harm and distress caused, and due to them revelling in the crime and the fact that others had been arrested for their crime.
Sentence 4 years 3 months.
They will serve a minimum of 40% in prison (approx 20 months).
What's the feeling on that sentence?
I am aware that some "one punch killers" have been given shorter sentences than that, for example. I am concerned that the Judge said that the widespread public response was a factor in increasing the sentence. That suggests that social media campaigns could influence sentencing.
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:37 - Jul 15 with 1847 views | bluelagos |
The judge went slightly over the max - but for me, got no issues as it wasn't like she doubled it.
I think the social harm was real and the process for the punishment doesn't concern me.
The wider point (on could a social media campaign influence sentencing) - I guess that's a worry - but I think she was influenced by public anger not public campaigning.
So on balance - feels about right.
Edit - Have put another comment on - but won't edit thia as it kind of messes up any replies and/or anyone upped it. [Post edited 15 Jul 17:01]
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:47 - Jul 15 with 1749 views | Radlett_blue |
Beyond stupid as a sentence. Prisons are overcrowded, so let's put these 2 up for a couple of years. They're clearly idiots, but putting 2 fools in jail for 4 years for damaging a tree? |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:47 - Jul 15 with 1750 views | Herbivore |
I'm down with this. Happy for there to be a dickhead levy on sentences and this very much qualifies. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:55 - Jul 15 with 1628 views | baxterbasics |
No this is ludicrous. We have violent domestic abusers getting less. Prisons are stuffed full.
Now we are all paying unnecessary money to keep them incarcerated.
Public opinion should have no bearing on a sentence.
A hefty fine, criminal record and umpteen hours of community service would have been plenty. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:56 - Jul 15 with 1619 views | Swansea_Blue |
I’m not so keen on taking the public response into consideration - it introduces a very subjective element, whereas sentencing guidelines are trying to do the opposite. And how do you validate what or how strong the public response is? She may have not veered far from the guidelines in this case, but who’s to say the next judge won’t? |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:56 - Jul 15 with 1608 views | NedPlimpton |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:47 - Jul 15 by Radlett_blue |
Beyond stupid as a sentence. Prisons are overcrowded, so let's put these 2 up for a couple of years. They're clearly idiots, but putting 2 fools in jail for 4 years for damaging a tree? |
Damaging a tree is a bit different to chopping down the most iconic tree in England! |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:56 - Jul 15 with 1610 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:47 - Jul 15 by Radlett_blue |
Beyond stupid as a sentence. Prisons are overcrowded, so let's put these 2 up for a couple of years. They're clearly idiots, but putting 2 fools in jail for 4 years for damaging a tree? |
They didn’t just damage it did they - they hacked down a historical landmark, absolute chavs.
A saddening and senseless crime, doubt they’ll serve anything like the 4 years anyway. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:02 - Jul 15 with 1527 views | buoyant |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:55 - Jul 15 by baxterbasics |
No this is ludicrous. We have violent domestic abusers getting less. Prisons are stuffed full.
Now we are all paying unnecessary money to keep them incarcerated.
Public opinion should have no bearing on a sentence.
A hefty fine, criminal record and umpteen hours of community service would have been plenty. |
Domestic abusers getting less isn't an arguement against punishing people to deter others from doing the same IMO.
Respect for others and the environment that we live in is slowly erroding in our society and I'm all up for making examples of the morons that walk amongst us.
It will go a long way to preventing copycat morons splashing similar d!ckheadery on socials. [Post edited 15 Jul 16:06]
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:05 - Jul 15 with 1502 views | blueasfook |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:55 - Jul 15 by baxterbasics |
No this is ludicrous. We have violent domestic abusers getting less. Prisons are stuffed full.
Now we are all paying unnecessary money to keep them incarcerated.
Public opinion should have no bearing on a sentence.
A hefty fine, criminal record and umpteen hours of community service would have been plenty. |
I'd have probably leant more to that kind of sentence if they were a couple of kids, but these were grown men in their 30s who really ought to have known better. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:18 - Jul 15 with 1426 views | Radlett_blue |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:02 - Jul 15 by buoyant |
Domestic abusers getting less isn't an arguement against punishing people to deter others from doing the same IMO.
Respect for others and the environment that we live in is slowly erroding in our society and I'm all up for making examples of the morons that walk amongst us.
It will go a long way to preventing copycat morons splashing similar d!ckheadery on socials. [Post edited 15 Jul 16:06]
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Research shows that long prison sentences, while they please Daily Mail readers, don;t deter people from committing crimes, presumably because either they're thick or they don't think they will get caught.
An excessive sentence like this for a foolish act of vandalism isn't going to change anything. If we had a Singaporean system whereby people didn;t drop litter becasue they knew they's probably get a hefty fine, I'd be all for it. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:25 - Jul 15 with 1370 views | bsw72 |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:55 - Jul 15 by baxterbasics |
No this is ludicrous. We have violent domestic abusers getting less. Prisons are stuffed full.
Now we are all paying unnecessary money to keep them incarcerated.
Public opinion should have no bearing on a sentence.
A hefty fine, criminal record and umpteen hours of community service would have been plenty. |
100% this . . . community service which involves planting trees surely . . . |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:27 - Jul 15 with 1352 views | Smoresy |
I'm all for a suitably big deterrent to try to ensure that something like doesn't happen again. With prison places and costs where they are though, I find it a shame that we don't have an alternative punishment up our sleeves. Would have preferred a lot of hard unpaid work. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:31 - Jul 15 with 1305 views | baxterbasics |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:25 - Jul 15 by bsw72 |
100% this . . . community service which involves planting trees surely . . . |
They've damaged the community so restoration through service would be entirely appropriate.
I see zero utility in jail time other than satisfying the outraged of social media. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:33 - Jul 15 with 1289 views | Mercian |
So people who chop down a tree get a similar sentence for someone who kills a person after crashing into them whilst doing 70 in a 30 zone. Total and utter bollox if you ask me. |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:45 - Jul 15 with 1199 views | Glevum |
Should’ve been 4 years and 3 months of planting new trees. Including going back to water them, nurture them and then replant any that got vandalised. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:55 - Jul 15 with 1130 views | MattinLondon |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:47 - Jul 15 by Radlett_blue |
Beyond stupid as a sentence. Prisons are overcrowded, so let's put these 2 up for a couple of years. They're clearly idiots, but putting 2 fools in jail for 4 years for damaging a tree? |
Mate, why were you sent down?
Prisoner A: Got four years for glassing someone.
Prisoner B: Got a few years for supplying drugs.
Prisoner C: Got a few years for cutting down a tree.
Now I know that it’s more than a tree and people were generally upset by it but a custodial sentence is utterly ridiculous.
Four years of community service on weekends from 09:00-18:00 doing countryside cleanups etc. That would have been a more fitting punishment- in my opinion |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:00 - Jul 15 with 1092 views | bluelagos |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:55 - Jul 15 by MattinLondon |
Mate, why were you sent down?
Prisoner A: Got four years for glassing someone.
Prisoner B: Got a few years for supplying drugs.
Prisoner C: Got a few years for cutting down a tree.
Now I know that it’s more than a tree and people were generally upset by it but a custodial sentence is utterly ridiculous.
Four years of community service on weekends from 09:00-18:00 doing countryside cleanups etc. That would have been a more fitting punishment- in my opinion |
Reading the responses on here - think others make better points.
Am not sorry for the idiots - but can see that other punishments may do more for society than locking these arseholes up.
Throw the book at them in terms of community service - and make it one that genuinely addresses countryside issues. [Post edited 15 Jul 18:25]
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:21 - Jul 15 with 1011 views | naa |
Prisons should be used to remove people from society that are a danger to it. I don't see how this improves society, it just means we have to pay to look after them for a couple of years.
We need an alternative for crimes like this. Some kind of stronger community service - all day for 6-12 months type thing, where they can rebuild stuff rather than knock it down. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:23 - Jul 15 with 1004 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 16:31 - Jul 15 by baxterbasics |
They've damaged the community so restoration through service would be entirely appropriate.
I see zero utility in jail time other than satisfying the outraged of social media. |
As a matter of general principle, I’d be all for that. It’s known prison doesn’t work as a deterrent or to reduce repeat offending. Community serviced based approaches seem more appropriate to me for the lower grade crimes. There is/was a judge who became a bit of a YouTube celebrity in the US for coming up with creative punishments that fit the crime. I’d be all for learning from him and trying to reduce the amount of people we send to prison. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:23 - Jul 15 with 997 views | urbanpenguin |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:47 - Jul 15 by Radlett_blue |
Beyond stupid as a sentence. Prisons are overcrowded, so let's put these 2 up for a couple of years. They're clearly idiots, but putting 2 fools in jail for 4 years for damaging a tree? |
Slightly more than "damaged" tbh. |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:30 - Jul 15 with 951 views | naa |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:23 - Jul 15 by Swansea_Blue |
As a matter of general principle, I’d be all for that. It’s known prison doesn’t work as a deterrent or to reduce repeat offending. Community serviced based approaches seem more appropriate to me for the lower grade crimes. There is/was a judge who became a bit of a YouTube celebrity in the US for coming up with creative punishments that fit the crime. I’d be all for learning from him and trying to reduce the amount of people we send to prison. |
Yes, he was excellent. WE need to change our thinking about crime and punishment in this country and I've been surprised that we've started locking people up for an offensive tweet or a bit of criminal damage.
Norway's system is setup to rehabilitate rather than punish and they get very very low rate of repeat offenders. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:36 - Jul 15 with 909 views | MattinLondon |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:30 - Jul 15 by naa |
Yes, he was excellent. WE need to change our thinking about crime and punishment in this country and I've been surprised that we've started locking people up for an offensive tweet or a bit of criminal damage.
Norway's system is setup to rehabilitate rather than punish and they get very very low rate of repeat offenders. |
Let’s not forget that that offensive tweet called for hotels housing asylum seekers to be burned down. At the time of heightened emotions she could have helped to further escalate the situation.
Rehabilitation is the key but we live in a country where a lot of people view rehabilitation as a soft option. But I do agree with you that we need to change our thinking regarding punishment. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 17:56 - Jul 15 with 819 views | mutters |
As we say in Suffolk... That'll learn 'em, buh! |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:06 - Jul 15 with 794 views | AndoverFist |
It’s a shame we still don’t have the equivalent of National Service, whereby they could be forced to enlist with the Army, Navy etc., rather than serving a prison sentence - which, these days, doesn’t seem to be too much of a deterrent & places even more strain on a system which looks close to being overwhelmed. Then, in the event of any civil disturbance or war they would automatically be called upon to defend & protect this country. Might be more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment, where most of these buffoons have no respect for anything or anyone & know the consequences of their actions are similar to being beaten up with a moist tissue. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:17 - Jul 15 with 740 views | MattinLondon |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:06 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
It’s a shame we still don’t have the equivalent of National Service, whereby they could be forced to enlist with the Army, Navy etc., rather than serving a prison sentence - which, these days, doesn’t seem to be too much of a deterrent & places even more strain on a system which looks close to being overwhelmed. Then, in the event of any civil disturbance or war they would automatically be called upon to defend & protect this country. Might be more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment, where most of these buffoons have no respect for anything or anyone & know the consequences of their actions are similar to being beaten up with a moist tissue. |
Absolutely- because what the armed forces really want is to look after people who don’t want to be there. | | | |
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