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Will watch this with interest, as I think like Reform they will get a disproportionate amount of media attention.
However, I do wonder if MPs who defect should be made to hold an election immediately. If you are voted in as an MP for one party, then seems undemocratic to me to pivot to another party without a mandate.
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 21:50 - Jul 24 by DJR
I wouldn't vote for them either but to suggest Corbyn is anti-internationalist seems to fly in the face of evidence.
To take but two examples, his approach in relation to both Iraq and Gaza suggest someone much more in keeping with UN organisations and the like than that of many Western governments.
Of course, you could say he is obsessive on certain issues, simplistic, naive and an idealist, but that is an entirely different matter.
And in my view all of the concerning developments in the Western world these days stem not from the left but from the right.
Finally, if there is such a thing as left populism, it doesn't seem very err... popular.
[Post edited 25 Jul 7:26]
The core policies at the heart of the statement that Corbyn and Sultana issued yesterday were wealth redistribution, taxing the very richest, nationalisation of key industries, the building of council houses and opposition to the privatisation of the NHS.
It is ironic that policies that formed the core of the Atlee government are now regarded as left wing populism.
The same is not true of Farage for whom you couldn't say that his policies were mainstream Tory policies, although they are starting to be so now.
That is why I am sceptical of the term left wing populism, the term populism in my view being used as a pejorative to dismiss those on the left. Indeed, one could argue that Starmer's Labour is becoming increasingly populist whilst those on the left still stand up for people like migrants.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:34 - Jul 25 with 860 views
Another issue I have with the new party is that it is too dependent on one person (just like Galloway's) and an ageing (and not very competent) one to boot.
A party with John McDonnell and Clive Lewis in it would be a different mater but both have indicated they don't want to join the new party.
[Post edited 25 Jul 8:40]
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:42 - Jul 25 with 822 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:34 - Jul 25 by DJR
Another issue I have with the new party is that it is too dependent on one person (just like Galloway's) and an ageing (and not very competent) one to boot.
A party with John McDonnell and Clive Lewis in it would be a different mater but both have indicated they don't want to join the new party.
[Post edited 25 Jul 8:40]
Yes, I think that’s right. tbf to Corbyn, his aim was always to democratise and make Lab a more grassroots party, and that’s very much what the new party website is saying it will do. Always an irony in “Corbyn mania”.
Obviously it’s become the exact opposite under Starmer.
I just think his time has passed. I expect he probably feels the same way, hence the gap between ZS announcing the party and the launch yesterday.
Still, perhaps having a very recognisable name fronting it will help.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:46 - Jul 25 with 798 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:31 - Jul 25 by DJR
The core policies at the heart of the statement that Corbyn and Sultana issued yesterday were wealth redistribution, taxing the very richest, nationalisation of key industries, the building of council houses and opposition to the privatisation of the NHS.
It is ironic that policies that formed the core of the Atlee government are now regarded as left wing populism.
The same is not true of Farage for whom you couldn't say that his policies were mainstream Tory policies, although they are starting to be so now.
That is why I am sceptical of the term left wing populism, the term populism in my view being used as a pejorative to dismiss those on the left. Indeed, one could argue that Starmer's Labour is becoming increasingly populist whilst those on the left still stand up for people like migrants.
The anti-internationalist is an entirety fair point however. He spent a lifetime as a professional protester, with decades of anti-EU rhetoric and voting against major treaties. His feeble and unconvincing switch to ‘Remainer’ to be in line with his party suggests little commitment to rejoin. He’s also anti NATO, he should spend some time with our friends and allies in Scandinavia, Baltics and Eastern Europe and see the fear (and frequent Russian sabotage attacks) as to why that’s a dangerous stance. He even went on record to say the west should stop sending weapons to Ukraine. In terms of foreign policy he’s not a million miles away from Trump and Farage (albeit for different ideological reasons).
He’ll mop up a few votes in metropolitan areas like London, but the Red Wall won’t go anyone near him. Seems to me to be a Corbyn vanity project to stick his fingers up to Labour. And with no PR, like the previous couple of elections he stood, wil simplyl aid more odious people getting into power.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:47 - Jul 25 with 804 views
Think this government is doing absolutely everything in its power to ensure they get challengers to their left in the next election. Considering how marginal most of their seats were in the last election it's incredible how complacent they are about it(especially when it's very clear they're not actually having any success in appealing to conservative-leaning voters).
The Corbyn/Sultana Party would probably have a decent shot at winning a fair few seats in the urban seats where the Tories/Reform aren't a major threat (Bristol, London, Manchester, Liverpool, places like that). If the left-wing candidate (Zack Polanski) wins the Green leadership, there's also probably a prospect of a non-competition pact with the Greens which would likely help both parties.
Still, always a possibility with the Left that they screw that all up by infighting and splitting.
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:47 - Jul 25 by jayessess
Think this government is doing absolutely everything in its power to ensure they get challengers to their left in the next election. Considering how marginal most of their seats were in the last election it's incredible how complacent they are about it(especially when it's very clear they're not actually having any success in appealing to conservative-leaning voters).
The Corbyn/Sultana Party would probably have a decent shot at winning a fair few seats in the urban seats where the Tories/Reform aren't a major threat (Bristol, London, Manchester, Liverpool, places like that). If the left-wing candidate (Zack Polanski) wins the Green leadership, there's also probably a prospect of a non-competition pact with the Greens which would likely help both parties.
Still, always a possibility with the Left that they screw that all up by infighting and splitting.
There’d be some juicy scalps in that scenario, including Wes Streeting. Even Starmer would face a risk if there was a co-ordinated effort in Holborn and St Pancras.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 09:04 - Jul 25 with 769 views
I've seen a few people suggest it should be called 'Leftovers'. I thought a clever play on the fact the party is on the left.
Obviously given Corbyn's history the National Socialist British Workers' Party, seems more appropriate.
However I see he wants the members to come up with the name. Typical Corbyn, the party was only formed 24 hours ago, and already he's sitting on a fence. The main reason he failed before was his inability to make a decision. The man who voted against the EU his entire life, then during/after Brexit apparently he was pro EU. But as enthusiastic pro EU as a TWTD poster would be about Town buying James Maddison.
But it will take votes from Labour and the Greens, and the main winner will ultimately be Farage.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 09:20 - Jul 25 with 740 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:56 - Jul 25 by thebooks
There’d be some juicy scalps in that scenario, including Wes Streeting. Even Starmer would face a risk if there was a co-ordinated effort in Holborn and St Pancras.
If they keep booting out MPs that will be more easy pick ups too. What chance would a no-name Labour candidate stand against Diane Abbott in Hackney North? None.
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 13:33 - Jul 24 by Kievthegreat
Your party is a stupid name.
I mean it's not my party, it's not our party and it's not necessarily your party, but it is still Your Party. Even if it's not your party, it is definitely their party.
It’s only a placeholder name until the conference
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 12:38 - Jul 25 with 544 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 14:23 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue
it's very bad news for the greens. plus they'll mop up most of 'the muslim vote' people. if they can grab george galloway as well it'll be a full house.
Different class/ideological coalition from the Greens. Polanski might win and that might ease a lot of socialists’ worries about Green nimbyism/parochialism (which is arguably a bit outdated anyway). If this new party and the Greens had a non-compete agreement they’d probably get a combined 30% of the vote.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 12:43 - Jul 25 with 516 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 11:46 - Jul 25 by J2BLUE
Are you excited by this news Herb?
Not really, no. Corbyn isn't a good leader and he's well old. Would prefer a left wing party with a bit more dynamism and effective leadership. I'll be sticking with the Greens for the time being.
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 13:33 - Jul 24 by Kievthegreat
Your party is a stupid name.
I mean it's not my party, it's not our party and it's not necessarily your party, but it is still Your Party. Even if it's not your party, it is definitely their party.
It's my party - and I'll cry if I want to......
Thorpedo
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 14:24 - Jul 25 with 377 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 12:38 - Jul 25 by ZapatasMoustache
Different class/ideological coalition from the Greens. Polanski might win and that might ease a lot of socialists’ worries about Green nimbyism/parochialism (which is arguably a bit outdated anyway). If this new party and the Greens had a non-compete agreement they’d probably get a combined 30% of the vote.
30% seems optimistic to me. Labour and Greens combined are currently polling at 30-35%. I'm not sure that this new part can take 80% of the current labour party vote with them, because I don't suppose they'll be getting many reform or Tory votes switching.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 15:29 - Jul 25 with 332 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 14:24 - Jul 25 by Kievthegreat
30% seems optimistic to me. Labour and Greens combined are currently polling at 30-35%. I'm not sure that this new part can take 80% of the current labour party vote with them, because I don't suppose they'll be getting many reform or Tory votes switching.
Maybe a touch high but the biggest subsection of the huge number of non-voters right now are centre- left to left - if it’s done right (and it’s much too early to say on that front I think), it could energise an enormous number of non voters. 150,000 sign ups in two days suggests that could be extremely plausible.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 15:33 - Jul 25 with 327 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 14:24 - Jul 25 by Kievthegreat
30% seems optimistic to me. Labour and Greens combined are currently polling at 30-35%. I'm not sure that this new part can take 80% of the current labour party vote with them, because I don't suppose they'll be getting many reform or Tory votes switching.
Maybe a touch high but the biggest subsection of the huge number of non-voters right now are centre- left to left - if it’s done right (and it’s much too early to say on that front I think), it could energise an enormous number of non voters. 150,000 sign ups in two days suggests that could be extremely plausible.
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 16:58 - Jul 25 with 270 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 08:46 - Jul 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna
The anti-internationalist is an entirety fair point however. He spent a lifetime as a professional protester, with decades of anti-EU rhetoric and voting against major treaties. His feeble and unconvincing switch to ‘Remainer’ to be in line with his party suggests little commitment to rejoin. He’s also anti NATO, he should spend some time with our friends and allies in Scandinavia, Baltics and Eastern Europe and see the fear (and frequent Russian sabotage attacks) as to why that’s a dangerous stance. He even went on record to say the west should stop sending weapons to Ukraine. In terms of foreign policy he’s not a million miles away from Trump and Farage (albeit for different ideological reasons).
He’ll mop up a few votes in metropolitan areas like London, but the Red Wall won’t go anyone near him. Seems to me to be a Corbyn vanity project to stick his fingers up to Labour. And with no PR, like the previous couple of elections he stood, wil simplyl aid more odious people getting into power.
It is perhaps difficult to argue, given the definition of internationalism in Wikipedia, that the EU and NATO (whatever their merits) are any more internationalist than, say, the Warsaw Pact or BRICs,
Instead, they are groupings of nations which have come together for some purpose which they consider to be to their mutual benefit.
Indeed, if we take trade as an example, I imagine that a true internationalist might regard the WTO as the appropriate body to take the lead on this whereas nation states or blocks of states would probably never allow this.
Here is the definition from Wikipedia.
"Modern expression
Internationalism is most commonly expressed as an appreciation for the diverse cultures in the world, and a desire for world peace. People who express this view believe in not only being a citizen of their respective countries, but of being a citizen of the world. Internationalists feel obliged to assist the world through leadership and charity.
Internationalists also advocate the presence of international organizations, such as the United Nations, and often support a stronger form of a world government."
Internationalism also has a socialist meaning.
"Internationalism is an important component of socialist political theory, based on the principle that working-class people of all countries must unite across national boundaries and actively oppose nationalism and war in order to overthrow capitalism. In this sense, the socialist understanding of internationalism is closely related to the concept of international solidarity."
There's even a song.
When it comes to peace, as I said in an earlier post, it could be argued that Corbyn is rather naive but it is a position he has held for a long time and as a result could be said to be a principled position, not dissimilar to that of the Peace Pledge Union or the Quakers, the latter of which have been nominated six times for the Nobel Peace Price and won it once.
[Post edited 25 Jul 17:09]
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“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 17:07 - Jul 25 with 245 views
“Your party” by Corbyn x Sultana anyone going to vote for them? on 15:33 - Jul 25 by ZapatasMoustache
Maybe a touch high but the biggest subsection of the huge number of non-voters right now are centre- left to left - if it’s done right (and it’s much too early to say on that front I think), it could energise an enormous number of non voters. 150,000 sign ups in two days suggests that could be extremely plausible.
Obviously it's not impossible and hey, an election is still years away. Who knows all the twists and turns until then.
I think my concern would be that rather than growing their vote shares, a pact just makes things more efficient electorally. If you can keep that parochial rural green vote in the tent, then perhaps they can grow towards the higher numbers though as you're bringing demographics that the new party is unlikely to win on their own.
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