| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League 07:39 - Jul 27 with 3592 views | thebooks |
I know there are a few on here getting all starry-eyed about the “legitimate” protests in Epping, which have spread to Diss.
The BBC story quotes one of the Diss protest’s organisers:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq68r9y1qdmo
Glen Saffer was/is a member of the English Defence League. A simple Google search would have revealed this. I guess that’s beyond the capabilities of the BBC.
The fact that the protestors are talking about “invasions” and warn of the dangers of brown-skinned people assaulting children is quite a big clue, but not enough for some.
I mention it because we need to be aware of this fascist threat in our area. [Post edited 27 Jul 7:44]
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 07:57 - Jul 27 with 2706 views | football |
There were more protests in Norwich also. |  | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 09:48 - Jul 27 with 2453 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
It bothered me big time this week. I live fairly close to Diss, grew up there in the late sixties, seventies and early early eighties and came back to the area to live about four years ago although have worked for years for various people in the town and surrounding area.
There has always been a suspicion of outsiders from certain folks, whether they be from Europe or migrants from war torn countries around the world. People I’ve known since school days and class as friends still hold these views which I find a little bit disturbing and have often had some heated discussions with them about it over the years.
Last week, local community FB and other social media sites were awash with comments, I had to try and explain, along with other more enlightened people, that the protests in the town were being and would be hijacked by the more extreme elements in society and subsequently had a reply from one of the organisers that they would not be holding any further demonstrations. it remains to be seen if this will be the case going forward but the hotel in question has housed mainly women and children for the best part of two years and as far as I’m aware there has been no instances of any trouble of any kind.
The issue now is that the hotel is being earmarked to house a large number of single young males as the families are being moved elsewhere. I really hope common sense and grown up thinking will prevail. Calm heads are needed moving forward and I really hope that the local community will not tolerate the stoking up of fear and some of the more extreme rhetoric being used. |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:35 - Jul 27 with 2327 views | J2BLUE |
Immigration is going to be a huge issue over the coming years. Even more so than it is now.
We do need to have a sensible conversation about it without anyone with concerns being automatically labelled as racist. Just to be clear I don't mean people like the EDL who clearly are on the extreme end and are 100% racist.
If we don't have an honest national debate about it then it will let in Farage which is the last thing the country needs. |  |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:40 - Jul 27 with 2282 views | Herbivore |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:35 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
Immigration is going to be a huge issue over the coming years. Even more so than it is now.
We do need to have a sensible conversation about it without anyone with concerns being automatically labelled as racist. Just to be clear I don't mean people like the EDL who clearly are on the extreme end and are 100% racist.
If we don't have an honest national debate about it then it will let in Farage which is the last thing the country needs. |
I find posts like this odd. Immigration is already THE hot topic politically and gets disproportionate levels of coverage. Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out by both of the two major political parties as well as by Reform. Yet people still try to make out that nobody is talking about immigration and people's concerns aren't being taken seriously. |  |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:50 - Jul 27 with 2221 views | J2BLUE |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:40 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
I find posts like this odd. Immigration is already THE hot topic politically and gets disproportionate levels of coverage. Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out by both of the two major political parties as well as by Reform. Yet people still try to make out that nobody is talking about immigration and people's concerns aren't being taken seriously. |
There's not much middle ground on either side though is there? It's either get rid of all foreigners and let migrants drown or people mocking a 'fear of brown people' and generally sneering at people.
People like the EDL are scum. I feel the need to repeat that in every post because I know many people (not you) like to respond to what they want to read rather than what is actually said. [Post edited 27 Jul 10:54]
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:00 - Jul 27 with 2145 views | Herbivore |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:50 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
There's not much middle ground on either side though is there? It's either get rid of all foreigners and let migrants drown or people mocking a 'fear of brown people' and generally sneering at people.
People like the EDL are scum. I feel the need to repeat that in every post because I know many people (not you) like to respond to what they want to read rather than what is actually said. [Post edited 27 Jul 10:54]
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But the problem is that rather than open up a more sensible and nuanced debate, Labour has joined the Tories and Reform in ramping up a hostile environment. You had Starmer talking about an island of strangers, Rayner just this week saying immigration is one of the main threats to social cohesion. And it's pretty much always focused on asylum seekers, who make up a minority of migrants coming into the country. I'm all for having a proper debate about the pros and cons of immigration but it's hard to see it happening in the current climate.
The sad truth is that immigrants (specifically asylum seekers) are a useful smokescreen for failing governments and for the wealthy folks who own the media. Aside from the strikes this week, there's not all that much coverage about how broken the NHS is. It's completely fecked. Schools are crumbling. Higher education is in a perilous state. And all the while, rich folks are getting richer and richer while the rest of us aren't. It benefits those in or with power to keep people angry about immigration, so I don't hold out much hope for nuanced discussion about it. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:12 - Jul 27 with 2061 views | J2BLUE |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:00 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
But the problem is that rather than open up a more sensible and nuanced debate, Labour has joined the Tories and Reform in ramping up a hostile environment. You had Starmer talking about an island of strangers, Rayner just this week saying immigration is one of the main threats to social cohesion. And it's pretty much always focused on asylum seekers, who make up a minority of migrants coming into the country. I'm all for having a proper debate about the pros and cons of immigration but it's hard to see it happening in the current climate.
The sad truth is that immigrants (specifically asylum seekers) are a useful smokescreen for failing governments and for the wealthy folks who own the media. Aside from the strikes this week, there's not all that much coverage about how broken the NHS is. It's completely fecked. Schools are crumbling. Higher education is in a perilous state. And all the while, rich folks are getting richer and richer while the rest of us aren't. It benefits those in or with power to keep people angry about immigration, so I don't hold out much hope for nuanced discussion about it. |
No, that's a good point.
Labour have to be seen to act. I would like to see an Australian style system. Something they could point to and say we have acted, we only take those two will be a benefit to the nation. That doesn't just mean doctors, scientists, care workers etc but also young people to help offset the coming pensions crisis.
I know you'll love this...but I would also have some sort of British values US style test. I fully agree that would be mainly for optics and serve little actual purpose but it would be another big hit to people like Farage. Avoiding a Reform government has to be the #1 priority for the nation. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:15 - Jul 27 with 2028 views | chicoazul |
And yet still TWTD wants PR in the electoral system. When will they learn. |  |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:18 - Jul 27 with 2001 views | StokieBlue |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:35 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
Immigration is going to be a huge issue over the coming years. Even more so than it is now.
We do need to have a sensible conversation about it without anyone with concerns being automatically labelled as racist. Just to be clear I don't mean people like the EDL who clearly are on the extreme end and are 100% racist.
If we don't have an honest national debate about it then it will let in Farage which is the last thing the country needs. |
This sounds great in theory and if it could be done in good faith it would obviously be good.
However we now have a large body of evidence that shows the debate wouldn't be in good faith. Farage lies constantly on the subject and people believe and support him. Reform voters on here are challenged to explain the reasoning behind their positions but they don't. They either ignore or obfuscate.
So I don't believe an honest national debate is possible, could you outline why you think it is possible given the above?
SB |  |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:19 - Jul 27 with 1997 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:40 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
I find posts like this odd. Immigration is already THE hot topic politically and gets disproportionate levels of coverage. Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out by both of the two major political parties as well as by Reform. Yet people still try to make out that nobody is talking about immigration and people's concerns aren't being taken seriously. |
I think cost of living is an even hotter topic than migration but is dealt with on television and in the newspapers in a more stilted fashion, the same is true of gender issues. J2 is, from what I take from the posts, criticising the polarised butting of heads and the apparent inability of people to keep more than one concept in their heads whilst talking about things.
Although there is economic migration aplenty in the World it seems that the objects of scorn are usually people trying to escape war zones, you wonder what goes through the heads of people who attack them, refugees having already become scared enough to leave a country that they had previously been comfortable with. It's like a macabre game of human tiddlywinks where a player hopes to ping a refugee away by making the United Kingdom just as hostile an environment as, for example, Ukraine or Somalia. What type of national pride is there in that for people who claim to be patriots ?
The point that you seem to be missing though is that migration will increase significantly as climate change has more impact, so the protesters against the housing of migrants are really wasting their time because there will be many more such social trends in the future simply as a result of pressure on the human race. And dismissive comments towards anyone who voices concern about the changes in the social make up of the localities around them avoid the necessary consideration about how we are all fed, sheltered, clothed and employed (and to do this we almost certainly need more migrants to support our ageing population). The prospective Reform (if ever there was a misnamed party it is that one) voters are better addressed as fellow human beings and with an opening out of the debate into true practicalities than trying to put them in a box and nail it down. [Post edited 27 Jul 11:23]
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:24 - Jul 27 with 1971 views | thebooks |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:35 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
Immigration is going to be a huge issue over the coming years. Even more so than it is now.
We do need to have a sensible conversation about it without anyone with concerns being automatically labelled as racist. Just to be clear I don't mean people like the EDL who clearly are on the extreme end and are 100% racist.
If we don't have an honest national debate about it then it will let in Farage which is the last thing the country needs. |
Depends what you mean about not being labelled “racist”, I think.
If you look at that report, the whole thing is racist: the symbols on some of the flags and T-shirts, the language of “invasion”, the tropes of brown people raping “our” children, the placard picturing an alleged rapist. All this is the result of allowing the narrative pushed by Farage, Tommy Robinson et al to be given oxygen.
An “honest” debate? Hopefully you mean something to counter this racism? | | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:30 - Jul 27 with 1917 views | Kievthegreat |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:00 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
But the problem is that rather than open up a more sensible and nuanced debate, Labour has joined the Tories and Reform in ramping up a hostile environment. You had Starmer talking about an island of strangers, Rayner just this week saying immigration is one of the main threats to social cohesion. And it's pretty much always focused on asylum seekers, who make up a minority of migrants coming into the country. I'm all for having a proper debate about the pros and cons of immigration but it's hard to see it happening in the current climate.
The sad truth is that immigrants (specifically asylum seekers) are a useful smokescreen for failing governments and for the wealthy folks who own the media. Aside from the strikes this week, there's not all that much coverage about how broken the NHS is. It's completely fecked. Schools are crumbling. Higher education is in a perilous state. And all the while, rich folks are getting richer and richer while the rest of us aren't. It benefits those in or with power to keep people angry about immigration, so I don't hold out much hope for nuanced discussion about it. |
Media framing is huge. There were tens of thousands of peaceful protestors in London today and most satellite protests outnumbered the EDL ones, but most won't even know they occured.*
Meanwhile we have members of parliament Rupert Lowe and James McMurdock (formerly of reform, but not removed because of their political views) publicly supporting forced deportation of legal citizens for net negative migration. Bear in mind that's 40% of the MPs who were elected for Reform. Remember when everyone slammed the BNP and Nick Griffin? Well now we elect people further to the right than him and we talk about legitimate concerns...
*It was trans rights. |  | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:31 - Jul 27 with 1915 views | Meadowlark |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:40 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
I find posts like this odd. Immigration is already THE hot topic politically and gets disproportionate levels of coverage. Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out by both of the two major political parties as well as by Reform. Yet people still try to make out that nobody is talking about immigration and people's concerns aren't being taken seriously. |
It's the hot topic politically because the press set the agenda. |  | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:33 - Jul 27 with 1894 views | J2BLUE |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:18 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue |
This sounds great in theory and if it could be done in good faith it would obviously be good.
However we now have a large body of evidence that shows the debate wouldn't be in good faith. Farage lies constantly on the subject and people believe and support him. Reform voters on here are challenged to explain the reasoning behind their positions but they don't. They either ignore or obfuscate.
So I don't believe an honest national debate is possible, could you outline why you think it is possible given the above?
SB |
It may not be.
I think it would take Labour having a reset (you know, the meaningless standing in front of a podium style news conference) and laying out why we need immigration and what the benefits are. I know this has been done, at least in theory, but people need to know exactly how it benefits them. More doctors, nurses, scientists, care home workers filling vital jobs. More younger people who will pay taxes which will help pay for pensions etc.
This is where they could also float the Australian idea and the entry test. Make it very clear to people that things will change. We will be selective and it will be to the benefit of the country.
Again, I understand this will be hijacked and attacked by the usual suspects like Farage but offer something concrete with the benefits fully laid out. It's the best chance we have. To me that gives more chance of success than not bothering. Farage is a very real threat. He must be stopped at all costs. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:34 - Jul 27 with 1881 views | J2BLUE |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:24 - Jul 27 by thebooks |
Depends what you mean about not being labelled “racist”, I think.
If you look at that report, the whole thing is racist: the symbols on some of the flags and T-shirts, the language of “invasion”, the tropes of brown people raping “our” children, the placard picturing an alleged rapist. All this is the result of allowing the narrative pushed by Farage, Tommy Robinson et al to be given oxygen.
An “honest” debate? Hopefully you mean something to counter this racism? |
You won't be getting a proper reply as you've done exactly what I predicted. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:54 - Jul 27 with 1763 views | baxterbasics |
So long as people keep acting like the far right is the only thing we should be worrying about, this is only going to get worse. The likes of the EDL and the rise of Farage are an irritating symptom, not the illness itself. |  |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:55 - Jul 27 with 1739 views | eireblue |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:33 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
It may not be.
I think it would take Labour having a reset (you know, the meaningless standing in front of a podium style news conference) and laying out why we need immigration and what the benefits are. I know this has been done, at least in theory, but people need to know exactly how it benefits them. More doctors, nurses, scientists, care home workers filling vital jobs. More younger people who will pay taxes which will help pay for pensions etc.
This is where they could also float the Australian idea and the entry test. Make it very clear to people that things will change. We will be selective and it will be to the benefit of the country.
Again, I understand this will be hijacked and attacked by the usual suspects like Farage but offer something concrete with the benefits fully laid out. It's the best chance we have. To me that gives more chance of success than not bothering. Farage is a very real threat. He must be stopped at all costs. |
U.K. does have a test for citizenship.
You can easily argue the U.K. has a stricter immigration policy than Australia. |  | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:58 - Jul 27 with 1712 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:40 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
I find posts like this odd. Immigration is already THE hot topic politically and gets disproportionate levels of coverage. Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out by both of the two major political parties as well as by Reform. Yet people still try to make out that nobody is talking about immigration and people's concerns aren't being taken seriously. |
the fact that you label it as: "Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out" demonstrates the point exactly. rather than seriously engage with why people think the current rate of immigration is too high and why lots of communities are reacting against it, you just dismiss the whole thing. others routinely see it as exclusively 'the rhetoric' of the far right. lots of communities are convinced they aren't being listened to, and you and others on here act as a meme for the dominant establishment attitude in the uk that, frankly, those people aren't worth listening to. it is why people like farage are doing so well and why scum like the edl swarm around the issue because many on the left just want to pretend it doesn't exist and / or is illegitimate. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:04 - Jul 27 with 1643 views | J2BLUE |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:55 - Jul 27 by eireblue |
U.K. does have a test for citizenship.
You can easily argue the U.K. has a stricter immigration policy than Australia. |
It can still be made better. Needing 75% on a 24 question paper lasting 45 minutes is barely worth it.
Also, we're really looking at optics as much as actual effectiveness. I know that shouldn't be the case but desperate times call for desperate measures. Farage isn't a distant threat. He is winning polls, winning over younger voters and the markets have priced him as favourite to be the next PM. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:05 - Jul 27 with 1631 views | baxterbasics |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:40 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
I find posts like this odd. Immigration is already THE hot topic politically and gets disproportionate levels of coverage. Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out by both of the two major political parties as well as by Reform. Yet people still try to make out that nobody is talking about immigration and people's concerns aren't being taken seriously. |
Yes the politicians have been talking about it for some time and the language has changed.
But this isn't the same as action. Largely because doing what actually needs to be done (or at least, what the public seem to expect) would probably mean leaving the ECHR. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:36 - Jul 27 with 1435 views | Kievthegreat |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:04 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
It can still be made better. Needing 75% on a 24 question paper lasting 45 minutes is barely worth it.
Also, we're really looking at optics as much as actual effectiveness. I know that shouldn't be the case but desperate times call for desperate measures. Farage isn't a distant threat. He is winning polls, winning over younger voters and the markets have priced him as favourite to be the next PM. |
University of Essex did a study and 2/3rds of British citizens failed. How many people here know when the Habeus Corpus Act became law or which years Robert Walpole was Prime Minister or the number of Assembly Members in Stormont, when did the Irish Free State become a republic? Most UK born citizens don't know these things. Yet they are some of the questions you'll get.
https://www.essex.ac.uk/news/2021/01/06/uk-citizenship-test-needs-to-change
https://britizen.uk/practice/life-in-the-uk-test | | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:41 - Jul 27 with 1407 views | Herbivore |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 11:58 - Jul 27 by lowhouseblue |
the fact that you label it as: "Anti-immigration rhetoric is now the norm and is being trotted out" demonstrates the point exactly. rather than seriously engage with why people think the current rate of immigration is too high and why lots of communities are reacting against it, you just dismiss the whole thing. others routinely see it as exclusively 'the rhetoric' of the far right. lots of communities are convinced they aren't being listened to, and you and others on here act as a meme for the dominant establishment attitude in the uk that, frankly, those people aren't worth listening to. it is why people like farage are doing so well and why scum like the edl swarm around the issue because many on the left just want to pretend it doesn't exist and / or is illegitimate. |
Your usual made up crock of sh!t. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:45 - Jul 27 with 1365 views | Herbivore |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:05 - Jul 27 by baxterbasics |
Yes the politicians have been talking about it for some time and the language has changed.
But this isn't the same as action. Largely because doing what actually needs to be done (or at least, what the public seem to expect) would probably mean leaving the ECHR. |
So you should ask yourself why a party that is ostensibly anti-immigration in its rhetoric (particularly thinking about the Tories here) enabled such high levels of immigration. And ask yourself why they've not had a sensible grown up conversation about the reasons why and instead have continued with anti-immigration rhetoric. | |
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| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:51 - Jul 27 with 1321 views | eireblue |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:04 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
It can still be made better. Needing 75% on a 24 question paper lasting 45 minutes is barely worth it.
Also, we're really looking at optics as much as actual effectiveness. I know that shouldn't be the case but desperate times call for desperate measures. Farage isn't a distant threat. He is winning polls, winning over younger voters and the markets have priced him as favourite to be the next PM. |
You think the nuance of a slightly more difficult test for citizenship is going to counter the lies from Nigel “voting remain will mean opening up borders to 77 million Turks” Farage? | | | |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 12:51 - Jul 27 with 1314 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| The Diss protests were organised by the English Defence League on 10:35 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
Immigration is going to be a huge issue over the coming years. Even more so than it is now.
We do need to have a sensible conversation about it without anyone with concerns being automatically labelled as racist. Just to be clear I don't mean people like the EDL who clearly are on the extreme end and are 100% racist.
If we don't have an honest national debate about it then it will let in Farage which is the last thing the country needs. |
100%. I’ve been saying the same.
We are walking into a disastrous outcome. | | | |
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