| Just went past a community centre… 17:52 - Sep 7 with 8331 views | Chris_ITFC |
… with Union Jack bunting up. Hard to know whether to smile at a friendly, welcoming venue or frown at a place run by a bunch of massive racists these days.
Could conceivably be either, with very little alternative in between.
Very confusing for my little brain to process.
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| Just went past a community centre… on 12:09 - Sep 8 with 1186 views | Libero |
| Just went past a community centre… on 18:50 - Sep 7 by Illinoisblue |
Very different here in the U.S. where from an early age people are taught to proudly love their country and where flying the Stars and Stripes is seen as a normal thing to do. |
Thankfully everything is very normal in the U.S.A and there's absolutely zero sign of any racism or nationalism. |  | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:14 - Sep 8 with 1156 views | noggin |
| Just went past a community centre… on 10:03 - Sep 8 by leitrimblue |
So if you were of say Jewish descent or a proud Unionist you wouldn't feel in anyway intimidated about walking the gauntlet of Palastinian and Irish flags through a known Republican stronghold?
I live between 2 villages, 1 decked out as above and 1 without a single flag. I definitely know which 1 feels more pleasant |
I saw video yesterday of Northern IrelandI fans, chanting "Israel Israel" as a pro Palestine march went past. I wonder if they really do support Israel's genocide, or if it's just due to Irish people's general support for Palestinians. |  |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 12:15 - Sep 8 with 1150 views | jpr_23 |
| Just went past a community centre… on 10:15 - Sep 8 by OldFart71 |
Perhaps if we had a government that worked for us rather than the Unions and wasn't torn between satisfying the left and the right there would be no need for people to take to the streets and use the Union Jack and flag of St. George as some sort of protest against our country being ruined.
I have no time for far right, far left or whatever. They are destroying peaceful protests.
But whatever goes on sadly you will always have people that use the situation to their advantage.
There should be no questions asked if a person wishes to raise the flag. But because of reasons I have just pointed out it will now be seen in some quarters as racist. Which in turn gives those with an agenda to destroy our culture even more excuses. |
Always found this sort of attack on the Unions bizarre. Who do you think are the Union members, the normal working class of the country. Always fascinated that people attack Tube Drivers for their pay and conditions without thinking, "Hmmm. If we got organised at work, maybe our pay would rise and our conditions would improve..." |  |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 12:16 - Sep 8 with 1147 views | Libero |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:14 - Sep 8 by noggin |
I saw video yesterday of Northern IrelandI fans, chanting "Israel Israel" as a pro Palestine march went past. I wonder if they really do support Israel's genocide, or if it's just due to Irish people's general support for Palestinians. |
Any one supporting Israel's actions is absolutely mental. Not a single one of my friends who are Jewish stands behind the genocide, I assume they were just looking for a reaction. | | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:24 - Sep 8 with 1114 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:05 - Sep 8 by giant_stow |
My new aged-footy team mate is Irish and had a bit of a (jokey) problem with passing to our centre forward who was wearing an England shirt in training. The Irishman helped us win only a second game in 3 years on saturday (he was a rock in midfield), so he can stay and the England shirt wearer can do one! priorities innit. |
Have a strange feeling if you lend the striker a spare Norwich shirt yer mans still not gonna pass to him .
Congratulations on yer victory  |  | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:29 - Sep 8 with 1084 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:14 - Sep 8 by noggin |
I saw video yesterday of Northern IrelandI fans, chanting "Israel Israel" as a pro Palestine march went past. I wonder if they really do support Israel's genocide, or if it's just due to Irish people's general support for Palestinians. |
If you go just across the border to Enniskillen, then half the town is decked out in St George, Union Jacks and Isreal flags ( even the kerbstones are painted red, white and blue), the other half in Irish and Palestinian flags.
Though there is less of it in the High Street compared to residential areas. | | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:40 - Sep 8 with 1034 views | J2BLUE |
| Just went past a community centre… on 11:11 - Sep 8 by leitrimblue |
Not really sure how that's moving the goalposts?
Was just giving you some background details.
I guarantee that if we walked through both villages I'm pretty sure we would chose to go for beers in the 1 without the flags, that's all. |
We've gone from walking past a few flags to deliberately provoking the locals |  |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 12:42 - Sep 8 with 1012 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:15 - Sep 8 by jpr_23 |
Always found this sort of attack on the Unions bizarre. Who do you think are the Union members, the normal working class of the country. Always fascinated that people attack Tube Drivers for their pay and conditions without thinking, "Hmmm. If we got organised at work, maybe our pay would rise and our conditions would improve..." |
That’s a whole other thread, but…
Everyone being paid more does not make everyone richer. | |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 12:53 - Sep 8 with 964 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:42 - Sep 8 by Chris_ITFC |
That’s a whole other thread, but…
Everyone being paid more does not make everyone richer. |
Fair enough, I'll take your share then Chris | | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:55 - Sep 8 with 956 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:40 - Sep 8 by J2BLUE |
We've gone from walking past a few flags to deliberately provoking the locals |
Argh, yer, possibly.
Though does it not make you wonder how someone wearing a Burka or other forms of Muslim or non traditional forms of UK dress feel walking through areas decked out in flags feel?
It's hard to suggest that someone walking through Manorhamilton wearing a kippah for example is deliberately being provocative rather then just going about their day.
I would suggest they are likely to feel alienated at the very least. | | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 13:09 - Sep 8 with 911 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 10:15 - Sep 8 by OldFart71 |
Perhaps if we had a government that worked for us rather than the Unions and wasn't torn between satisfying the left and the right there would be no need for people to take to the streets and use the Union Jack and flag of St. George as some sort of protest against our country being ruined.
I have no time for far right, far left or whatever. They are destroying peaceful protests.
But whatever goes on sadly you will always have people that use the situation to their advantage.
There should be no questions asked if a person wishes to raise the flag. But because of reasons I have just pointed out it will now be seen in some quarters as racist. Which in turn gives those with an agenda to destroy our culture even more excuses. |
What exactly is your culture and who is trying to destroy it? | | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 13:13 - Sep 8 with 885 views | Plums |
| Just went past a community centre… on 13:09 - Sep 8 by leitrimblue |
What exactly is your culture and who is trying to destroy it? |
Please don't ask questions that can't be answered, it makes people's heads hurt. It's soooo much easier to throw out a hackneyed soundbite
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| Just went past a community centre… on 13:35 - Sep 8 with 819 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 13:13 - Sep 8 by Plums |
Please don't ask questions that can't be answered, it makes people's heads hurt. It's soooo much easier to throw out a hackneyed soundbite
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You say that, but I'm expecting him to return any minute now with a PHD style thesis titled 'English culture and the potential risks from those that wish to destroy it'.
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| Just went past a community centre… on 13:36 - Sep 8 with 810 views | J2BLUE |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:55 - Sep 8 by leitrimblue |
Argh, yer, possibly.
Though does it not make you wonder how someone wearing a Burka or other forms of Muslim or non traditional forms of UK dress feel walking through areas decked out in flags feel?
It's hard to suggest that someone walking through Manorhamilton wearing a kippah for example is deliberately being provocative rather then just going about their day.
I would suggest they are likely to feel alienated at the very least. |
This may be controversial but I think it's things like this that drive people to Reform. It might be pathetic over a few flags (and for the record I don't care if they have flags or not, I would probably get home and not be able to tell you if there was or wasn't) but I think the average person couldn't care less what someone is wearing. It's when people start looking for offence behind the relatively meaningless use of flags (in your example, not the England flags being used for a specific purpose here) that people think this is pathetic.
Again, controversial, but we've become so oversensitive to any little thing. We go out of our way to look for offence and rather than just being mindful of others and generally looking to be decent tolerant people we really look for any little thing and say this COULD be offensive. Why? It's so tedious. Again, I am not talking about genuinely offensive things. This is completely fictional but if they suddenly start using an England flag with another white cross inside the red cross to symbolise the country is for whites only then that would be genuinely offensive. I really think this constant desperation to find new things to be offended about drives people to the likes of Reform.
I'm sure you will disagree, which is fine, we're having a civil discussion. I am also sure others are going to cherry pick what they want from the above post and respond to something out of context.
TL; DR - We spend far too much time obsessing about what might, at some point, at some time, under very specific circumstances COULD be considered offensive rather than just living life and learning as we go IF something is genuinely offensive. I am not out to make anyone's lives uncomfortable. I just think it goes way too far and we're too far down the road now to turn back. To borrow a line from TWTD, we're sleepwalking into fascism and some well meaning people are helping.
Also, for what it's worth I think it is absolutely critical we avoid a Reform government and Farage as PM. I am certainly no Reform fan. I've made similar posts before and been told i'm talking rubbish but then people are surprised when we get Trump, Brexit, Trump again, Boris Johnson etc etc. I had a charity bet with GB that Bojo or Rees-Mogg would be the next PM and I was right. I based that entirely on my belief that people would push back against this sort of thing and elect someone non PC. It's a pendulum. It can only swing so far one way before swinging back. Enter Farage. One last time, I am not looking to live in a world where it's ok to discriminate. Oh and yes, although I genuinely do believe it's all gone too far, I also do understand the media are a big part of this. Hyping up isolated incidents etc but well meaning people need to take a step back and just think is this helping?
(Apologies if this post is a bit fractured or rambling, it's been written during my break at work but still been constantly interrupted by work related things.) [Post edited 8 Sep 13:37]
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| Just went past a community centre… on 13:38 - Sep 8 with 795 views | textbackup |
| Just went past a community centre… on 12:14 - Sep 8 by noggin |
I saw video yesterday of Northern IrelandI fans, chanting "Israel Israel" as a pro Palestine march went past. I wonder if they really do support Israel's genocide, or if it's just due to Irish people's general support for Palestinians. |
I would suggest they were lobbing a cat amongst the pigeons |  |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 14:05 - Sep 8 with 688 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 13:36 - Sep 8 by J2BLUE |
This may be controversial but I think it's things like this that drive people to Reform. It might be pathetic over a few flags (and for the record I don't care if they have flags or not, I would probably get home and not be able to tell you if there was or wasn't) but I think the average person couldn't care less what someone is wearing. It's when people start looking for offence behind the relatively meaningless use of flags (in your example, not the England flags being used for a specific purpose here) that people think this is pathetic.
Again, controversial, but we've become so oversensitive to any little thing. We go out of our way to look for offence and rather than just being mindful of others and generally looking to be decent tolerant people we really look for any little thing and say this COULD be offensive. Why? It's so tedious. Again, I am not talking about genuinely offensive things. This is completely fictional but if they suddenly start using an England flag with another white cross inside the red cross to symbolise the country is for whites only then that would be genuinely offensive. I really think this constant desperation to find new things to be offended about drives people to the likes of Reform.
I'm sure you will disagree, which is fine, we're having a civil discussion. I am also sure others are going to cherry pick what they want from the above post and respond to something out of context.
TL; DR - We spend far too much time obsessing about what might, at some point, at some time, under very specific circumstances COULD be considered offensive rather than just living life and learning as we go IF something is genuinely offensive. I am not out to make anyone's lives uncomfortable. I just think it goes way too far and we're too far down the road now to turn back. To borrow a line from TWTD, we're sleepwalking into fascism and some well meaning people are helping.
Also, for what it's worth I think it is absolutely critical we avoid a Reform government and Farage as PM. I am certainly no Reform fan. I've made similar posts before and been told i'm talking rubbish but then people are surprised when we get Trump, Brexit, Trump again, Boris Johnson etc etc. I had a charity bet with GB that Bojo or Rees-Mogg would be the next PM and I was right. I based that entirely on my belief that people would push back against this sort of thing and elect someone non PC. It's a pendulum. It can only swing so far one way before swinging back. Enter Farage. One last time, I am not looking to live in a world where it's ok to discriminate. Oh and yes, although I genuinely do believe it's all gone too far, I also do understand the media are a big part of this. Hyping up isolated incidents etc but well meaning people need to take a step back and just think is this helping?
(Apologies if this post is a bit fractured or rambling, it's been written during my break at work but still been constantly interrupted by work related things.) [Post edited 8 Sep 13:37]
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Thanks for your long an considered reply. I'm pretending I'm working from home today and apart from the odd phone call and email I've nothing better to do then chat sh1te on here. Didn't intend for you to gave to spend yer lunchbreak replying to my nonsense.
The thing is, as you pointed out in your reply, this is a just a discussion. And it's surely better to discuss these things out loud here or elsewhere then to leave a vacuum for others to fill.
I'm not and wouldn't suggest that the flags in that village should be removed as not to cause offence. But I also can't pretend that there existence as no effect on others. (Especially those perceived to not be of the culture celebrated)
I don't wanna sound like a sad hippy, but I'd rather we just all got on together whatever background or culture we are from rather then looking for and highlighting our differences | | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:07 - Sep 8 with 673 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 13:36 - Sep 8 by J2BLUE |
This may be controversial but I think it's things like this that drive people to Reform. It might be pathetic over a few flags (and for the record I don't care if they have flags or not, I would probably get home and not be able to tell you if there was or wasn't) but I think the average person couldn't care less what someone is wearing. It's when people start looking for offence behind the relatively meaningless use of flags (in your example, not the England flags being used for a specific purpose here) that people think this is pathetic.
Again, controversial, but we've become so oversensitive to any little thing. We go out of our way to look for offence and rather than just being mindful of others and generally looking to be decent tolerant people we really look for any little thing and say this COULD be offensive. Why? It's so tedious. Again, I am not talking about genuinely offensive things. This is completely fictional but if they suddenly start using an England flag with another white cross inside the red cross to symbolise the country is for whites only then that would be genuinely offensive. I really think this constant desperation to find new things to be offended about drives people to the likes of Reform.
I'm sure you will disagree, which is fine, we're having a civil discussion. I am also sure others are going to cherry pick what they want from the above post and respond to something out of context.
TL; DR - We spend far too much time obsessing about what might, at some point, at some time, under very specific circumstances COULD be considered offensive rather than just living life and learning as we go IF something is genuinely offensive. I am not out to make anyone's lives uncomfortable. I just think it goes way too far and we're too far down the road now to turn back. To borrow a line from TWTD, we're sleepwalking into fascism and some well meaning people are helping.
Also, for what it's worth I think it is absolutely critical we avoid a Reform government and Farage as PM. I am certainly no Reform fan. I've made similar posts before and been told i'm talking rubbish but then people are surprised when we get Trump, Brexit, Trump again, Boris Johnson etc etc. I had a charity bet with GB that Bojo or Rees-Mogg would be the next PM and I was right. I based that entirely on my belief that people would push back against this sort of thing and elect someone non PC. It's a pendulum. It can only swing so far one way before swinging back. Enter Farage. One last time, I am not looking to live in a world where it's ok to discriminate. Oh and yes, although I genuinely do believe it's all gone too far, I also do understand the media are a big part of this. Hyping up isolated incidents etc but well meaning people need to take a step back and just think is this helping?
(Apologies if this post is a bit fractured or rambling, it's been written during my break at work but still been constantly interrupted by work related things.) [Post edited 8 Sep 13:37]
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searching for ways to be offended and writing off these people as bad / gullible is just a way to avoid listening to them. that leaves the door open for reform. it's the same as with brexit - and the same as with hilary's deplorables. if you choose a narrative which makes these communities untouchable and places them outside of mainstream politics then you can't be surprised when farage fills the void. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 14:27 - Sep 8 with 598 views | J2BLUE |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:05 - Sep 8 by leitrimblue |
Thanks for your long an considered reply. I'm pretending I'm working from home today and apart from the odd phone call and email I've nothing better to do then chat sh1te on here. Didn't intend for you to gave to spend yer lunchbreak replying to my nonsense.
The thing is, as you pointed out in your reply, this is a just a discussion. And it's surely better to discuss these things out loud here or elsewhere then to leave a vacuum for others to fill.
I'm not and wouldn't suggest that the flags in that village should be removed as not to cause offence. But I also can't pretend that there existence as no effect on others. (Especially those perceived to not be of the culture celebrated)
I don't wanna sound like a sad hippy, but I'd rather we just all got on together whatever background or culture we are from rather then looking for and highlighting our differences |
I don't mind sad hippies. Much better than daft racists.
Going back to Farage for a moment, he says he speaks for the silent majority. I there is a grain of truth there. Not that he speaks for them but that there is a silent majority. On one end you have the racist element (no redeeming features). On the other end you have the 'progression' at all costs types (at least they are, generally, well meaning, with a few glaring exceptions). Then you have the 80%+ in the middle who know what having any sort of grey area option is going to antagonise at least one of the two extremes. I think there's a big group in the middle who don't give a flying one where you come from but they want our laws to be respected. Don't care about your gender as long as we keep discussions on sex scientific and not ideological. Couldn't care less about what toilet you use as long as there are SOME single sex options. It's not about attacking people or making people uncomfortable. It's about respect and giving people as much of what they want as possible while understanding that when two groups are opposed we need to respect both rather than give one group everything and shout bigots at the other group.
I am with you. Life is too short for arguing over stupid things. | |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 14:32 - Sep 8 with 585 views | J2BLUE |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:07 - Sep 8 by lowhouseblue |
searching for ways to be offended and writing off these people as bad / gullible is just a way to avoid listening to them. that leaves the door open for reform. it's the same as with brexit - and the same as with hilary's deplorables. if you choose a narrative which makes these communities untouchable and places them outside of mainstream politics then you can't be surprised when farage fills the void. |
Precisely. Posting about Very Real Concerns on the internet while sneering is not going to help us keep Farage from power.
I've never been that bothered about a political outcome in the UK before. I stupidly voted for Brexit. I didn't want to the Tories but it wasn't something I considered a massive disaster. Farage is different. Farage is going to sell off the NHS, introduce insurance, cosy up to Russia, betray our allies and leave the country utterly broken. At least America are big enough to get Trump's way, however stupid it may be. No country in Europe will trust us again for a generation if he gets in. | |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 14:39 - Sep 8 with 547 views | blueasfook |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:32 - Sep 8 by J2BLUE |
Precisely. Posting about Very Real Concerns on the internet while sneering is not going to help us keep Farage from power.
I've never been that bothered about a political outcome in the UK before. I stupidly voted for Brexit. I didn't want to the Tories but it wasn't something I considered a massive disaster. Farage is different. Farage is going to sell off the NHS, introduce insurance, cosy up to Russia, betray our allies and leave the country utterly broken. At least America are big enough to get Trump's way, however stupid it may be. No country in Europe will trust us again for a generation if he gets in. |
Demonising Farage is probably not helpful either for the reasons you gave. On the NHS for example - Labour CLAIM he will sell off the NHS but in their 2024 manifesto, Reform pledged to keep NHS free at the point of delivery as it is now.
A lot of what's trotted out about what Reform will do is simply opposition scaremongering. |  |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 14:45 - Sep 8 with 514 views | J2BLUE |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:39 - Sep 8 by blueasfook |
Demonising Farage is probably not helpful either for the reasons you gave. On the NHS for example - Labour CLAIM he will sell off the NHS but in their 2024 manifesto, Reform pledged to keep NHS free at the point of delivery as it is now.
A lot of what's trotted out about what Reform will do is simply opposition scaremongering. |
That may be a fair point.
I don't really care what the manifesto said when he has been recorded saying he thinks we are going to have to move to an insurance based model. Its not Labour scaremongering, it's literally his own words. [Post edited 8 Sep 14:52]
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| Just went past a community centre… on 15:05 - Sep 8 with 457 views | Blueschev |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:39 - Sep 8 by blueasfook |
Demonising Farage is probably not helpful either for the reasons you gave. On the NHS for example - Labour CLAIM he will sell off the NHS but in their 2024 manifesto, Reform pledged to keep NHS free at the point of delivery as it is now.
A lot of what's trotted out about what Reform will do is simply opposition scaremongering. |
It really isn't scaremongering at all. There was no 2024 manifesto according to Farage, that was deliberate so he can chop and change what he says and avoid any accountability. He lies continuously and gets away with it.
The last thing Farage needs is even more of a free ride to spread his divisive, dangerous nonsense unopposed. Have you ever heard him being interviewed by Nick Ferrari? The levels of scrutiny are right up there with a Smash Hits interview with Gary Barlow. |  | | |
| Just went past a community centre… on 15:17 - Sep 8 with 411 views | J2BLUE |
| Just went past a community centre… on 15:05 - Sep 8 by Blueschev |
It really isn't scaremongering at all. There was no 2024 manifesto according to Farage, that was deliberate so he can chop and change what he says and avoid any accountability. He lies continuously and gets away with it.
The last thing Farage needs is even more of a free ride to spread his divisive, dangerous nonsense unopposed. Have you ever heard him being interviewed by Nick Ferrari? The levels of scrutiny are right up there with a Smash Hits interview with Gary Barlow. |
Oh good point, that reminds me, he also said anything in a manifesto is an aim, not a promise.
So yea. There's that. | |
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| Just went past a community centre… on 15:21 - Sep 8 with 383 views | leitrimblue |
| Just went past a community centre… on 14:07 - Sep 8 by lowhouseblue |
searching for ways to be offended and writing off these people as bad / gullible is just a way to avoid listening to them. that leaves the door open for reform. it's the same as with brexit - and the same as with hilary's deplorables. if you choose a narrative which makes these communities untouchable and places them outside of mainstream politics then you can't be surprised when farage fills the void. |
You don't think that Labour's failure to communicate, understand or even slightly relate to 'these communities' may have in anyway left a large vacuum for Reform to fill? | | | |
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