| 2 children drowned in the Channel today 16:08 - Sep 10 with 3885 views | noggin |
I bet they were fighting aged men in disguise. Stop the boats!, innocent people are perishing, while privileged white people fly flags as a show of hatred against them. |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:15 - Sep 10 with 2195 views | textbackup |
Parents must feel awful putting them in unnecessary danger, you’d assume they were safe on dry land in France.
Edit - abuse?! Jesus Chris [Post edited 10 Sep 16:28]
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:17 - Sep 10 with 2163 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:15 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
Parents must feel awful putting them in unnecessary danger, you’d assume they were safe on dry land in France.
Edit - abuse?! Jesus Chris [Post edited 10 Sep 16:28]
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And that sums up how desperate they are.
I am sure no one would want to live in the conditions they are living in. Or bring their children up in them. |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:19 - Sep 10 with 2138 views | textbackup |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:17 - Sep 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And that sums up how desperate they are.
I am sure no one would want to live in the conditions they are living in. Or bring their children up in them. |
I’m not seeing this news on any of the media outlets as yet, do we know when this happened? | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:21 - Sep 10 with 2128 views | nrb1985 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:15 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
Parents must feel awful putting them in unnecessary danger, you’d assume they were safe on dry land in France.
Edit - abuse?! Jesus Chris [Post edited 10 Sep 16:28]
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Quite right.
They should stop in the first safe country they get to.
I.e. Italy and Greece should be expected to house everything single refugee that comes into Europe from the south. Seems fair to me. |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:21 - Sep 10 with 2123 views | Blueschev |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:15 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
Parents must feel awful putting them in unnecessary danger, you’d assume they were safe on dry land in France.
Edit - abuse?! Jesus Chris [Post edited 10 Sep 16:28]
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People smugglers are nasty, organised criminals gangs. I doubt it's like a train service where you can just get off when and where you choose. |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:22 - Sep 10 with 2117 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
This is why I want to stop the Boats.
My solution would be to bite the bullet and sign a binding Treaty with France to build a legal centre in Pas de Calais to hear the Asylum Claims, under dual French/UK jurisdiction.
Half those granted Asylum are then housed in France, half in the UK. Those who have their claims denied, after due appeals process, would then be re-patriated at joint cost to the two Governments.
"The Jungle" is no good for the Pas de Calais region, and certainly no good for those living there, especially the children.
The "Asylum Hotels" issue is no good for the local communities, or for the Asylum Seekers living in them, or for Starmer's Government.
Throw the money needed at it to get cases heard quickly, and dealt with.
Close "The Jungle".
Stop the Boats.
Save Children's lives. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:23 - Sep 10 with 2097 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:17 - Sep 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And that sums up how desperate they are.
I am sure no one would want to live in the conditions they are living in. Or bring their children up in them. |
Precisely.
If you see attempting to cross the channel in a dinghy, despite all the risks that it entails, as the least worst course of action, things must be pretty dire.
The 2019 BBC drama 'Years and Years' is a very worthwhile watch for a slightly different perspective on this. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:28 - Sep 10 with 2050 views | textbackup |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:21 - Sep 10 by nrb1985 |
Quite right.
They should stop in the first safe country they get to.
I.e. Italy and Greece should be expected to house everything single refugee that comes into Europe from the south. Seems fair to me. |
If you were travelling with a child, would you travel across multiple countries, endangering your child?
I suspect not.
I suspect these parents have decided on the UK, for their own reasons, but it’s had catastrophic consequences. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:29 - Sep 10 with 2031 views | mellowblue |
not a word against the people smugglers though, very odd. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:32 - Sep 10 with 1996 views | itfcsuth |
Truly truly awful.
A genuine question, because I'm not educated enough to know the answer, but why do individuals make the crossing, France is a perfectly safe country, far from war torn? |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:34 - Sep 10 with 1970 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:32 - Sep 10 by itfcsuth |
Truly truly awful.
A genuine question, because I'm not educated enough to know the answer, but why do individuals make the crossing, France is a perfectly safe country, far from war torn? |
I'd imagine, amongst other factors, the fact that they might speak better English than French, and may already have contacts in the UK.
Similarly, with the ongoing heavy-handed secularisation of France, those who are Muslims may see the UK as a better place to practice their faith (current knuckle-dragging f**kwittery notwithstanding). | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:34 - Sep 10 with 1969 views | noggin |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:28 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
If you were travelling with a child, would you travel across multiple countries, endangering your child?
I suspect not.
I suspect these parents have decided on the UK, for their own reasons, but it’s had catastrophic consequences. |
By your logic, the parents are deliberately sending their children to their deaths. I doubt that's the case. Most asylum seekers do not attempt to reach the UK. There are valid reasons why some do and free a playstation is not one of them. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:39 - Sep 10 with 1918 views | textbackup |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:34 - Sep 10 by noggin |
By your logic, the parents are deliberately sending their children to their deaths. I doubt that's the case. Most asylum seekers do not attempt to reach the UK. There are valid reasons why some do and free a playstation is not one of them. |
I’ve no idea why you’ve mentioned a PlayStation, as this hasn’t been discussed/said | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:40 - Sep 10 with 1904 views | textbackup |
As a parent, which would you pick? (If you had the choice) | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:41 - Sep 10 with 1894 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:22 - Sep 10 by ArnoldMoorhen |
This is why I want to stop the Boats.
My solution would be to bite the bullet and sign a binding Treaty with France to build a legal centre in Pas de Calais to hear the Asylum Claims, under dual French/UK jurisdiction.
Half those granted Asylum are then housed in France, half in the UK. Those who have their claims denied, after due appeals process, would then be re-patriated at joint cost to the two Governments.
"The Jungle" is no good for the Pas de Calais region, and certainly no good for those living there, especially the children.
The "Asylum Hotels" issue is no good for the local communities, or for the Asylum Seekers living in them, or for Starmer's Government.
Throw the money needed at it to get cases heard quickly, and dealt with.
Close "The Jungle".
Stop the Boats.
Save Children's lives. |
I agree with all of this, except for the seemingly arbitrary decision as to whether someone will be granted asylum in France or the UK.
That element should be down to the needs and desires of the individual applicant, taking into account that there are probably a good number who already decide to stop and claim asylum in France.
I came across this poster outside a church in Gelsenkirchen at the weekend, which I feel is particularly fitting:
"Our cross has no hooks*. We want heart, not hate. You cannot choose your origins, but you can choose your homeland. We believe that falafal goes well with sauerkraut, and living together is better than living against oneanother. Our horizon is as wide as the sky over the Baltic beaches; rainbows included. Democracy means wanting the best for everyone and, as a result, sometimes having differing opinions. Racism is not an opinion. #WeAreMore"
*The German word for 'Swastika' literally translates as 'hooked cross'
If I, as a reasonably well-off and decently-educated individual can (broadly speaking) choose whether I want to live in the UK, France, Spain, Germany, or Burkina Faso, I believe that right should be afforded to everyone, not just those considered 'economically desirable'. [Post edited 10 Sep 16:44]
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:42 - Sep 10 with 1882 views | homer_123 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:34 - Sep 10 by Zx1988 |
I'd imagine, amongst other factors, the fact that they might speak better English than French, and may already have contacts in the UK.
Similarly, with the ongoing heavy-handed secularisation of France, those who are Muslims may see the UK as a better place to practice their faith (current knuckle-dragging f**kwittery notwithstanding). |
For all the talk of the UK being a soft touch - I suspect you are spot on regarding the reasons.
The main one will likely be they have family/friends in the UK already. |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:44 - Sep 10 with 1863 views | homer_123 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:40 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
As a parent, which would you pick? (If you had the choice) |
With the greatest will in the world - it's nigh on impossible to answer that question unless you live that life.
For all of the hate that we citizens seem to give our own Country - I think many have simply no idea, at all, what it is like to live elsewhere, let alone some of the Countries these people are travelling from. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:46 - Sep 10 with 1829 views | homer_123 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:15 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
Parents must feel awful putting them in unnecessary danger, you’d assume they were safe on dry land in France.
Edit - abuse?! Jesus Chris [Post edited 10 Sep 16:28]
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I think 'safe' is relative though. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:49 - Sep 10 with 1788 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:44 - Sep 10 by homer_123 |
With the greatest will in the world - it's nigh on impossible to answer that question unless you live that life.
For all of the hate that we citizens seem to give our own Country - I think many have simply no idea, at all, what it is like to live elsewhere, let alone some of the Countries these people are travelling from. |
Notwithstanding the fact that, if we choose to pack up and seek a better/safer/more profitable life elsewhere, the relative power of the British passport means that we're free to pretty much get on a plane and pitch up wherever we fancy. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:53 - Sep 10 with 1714 views | blueasfook |
Awful, but using the deaths of two children to make some cheap political dig is pretty low. What is wrong with you? |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:53 - Sep 10 with 1684 views | bsw72 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:40 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
As a parent, which would you pick? (If you had the choice) |
The fact you ask that question suggests a lack of understanding of what these people have faced and their state of mind. I would suggest all of us on this board are fortunate enough to live in a country where we have not faced war, starvation, abuse, persecution on a daily basis.
I doubt anyone on this board has lived the lives these individuals have, therefore would be in no position to understand the choices to be made and the state of mind of those parents. |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:55 - Sep 10 with 1648 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:53 - Sep 10 by blueasfook |
Awful, but using the deaths of two children to make some cheap political dig is pretty low. What is wrong with you? |
OP makes a salient point.
Our government should not be standing idly by, whilst children (or adults, for that matter) drown because there is no safe/legal route into the UK for those who wish to seek asylum.
We need to either do a deal with France to allow for processing on French soil, or open up safe/legal routes so that those who wish to claim asylum here do not need to risk their lives in order to do so. [Post edited 10 Sep 16:58]
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:57 - Sep 10 with 1603 views | Guthrum |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:29 - Sep 10 by mellowblue |
not a word against the people smugglers though, very odd. |
It's partly government policy - restriction of avenues for regulated migration and asylum seeking - which has given the opening for criminals to set up operations. If there were ways in which refugees and economic migrants could be processed without getting into massive debt and risking their lives, then I'm sure they wouldn't be queueing up on the beaches of France.
But we ditched our agreements and any future proposals about dealing with migrants on the French side of the Channel when we messily fell out of the EU. |  |
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