| 2 children drowned in the Channel today 16:08 - Sep 10 with 3827 views | noggin |
I bet they were fighting aged men in disguise. Stop the boats!, innocent people are perishing, while privileged white people fly flags as a show of hatred against them. |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:39 - Sep 10 with 478 views | jayessess |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:28 - Sep 10 by Radlett_blue |
Sorry, but the majority of asylum seekers aren't in immediate danger of death. They have taken a decision to leave their own country for another one where the chance of a decent life is much higher. They choose the UK over nearer European countries for a variety of reasons e.g. they speak some English, they probably have contacts over here who can help them find work etc. |
Think 'seeking a better life' and 'economic migrant' as categories are too blasé about the connections between survival and economic needs, especially when you're essentially destitute in a foreign country with no possessions.
If I had a friend or family member living in a homeless camp in France, I wouldn't consider them to be "safe". [Post edited 10 Sep 19:01]
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:42 - Sep 10 with 453 views | lowhouseblue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:39 - Sep 10 by jayessess |
Think 'seeking a better life' and 'economic migrant' as categories are too blasé about the connections between survival and economic needs, especially when you're essentially destitute in a foreign country with no possessions.
If I had a friend or family member living in a homeless camp in France, I wouldn't consider them to be "safe". [Post edited 10 Sep 19:01]
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why are they destitute in france? doesn't france have the same duties to support asylum seekers - in terms of accommodation and maintenance - as the uk? are they destitute because they have chosen to not to make a claim in france and / or they have had a claim rejected in france / elsewhere in the eu? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:43 - Sep 10 with 449 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:37 - Sep 10 by Zx1988 |
I take it you're playing the game of 'how many debunked racist tropes can we fit in one post'? |
Lazy by name, lazy by nature. |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:51 - Sep 10 with 397 views | onceablue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:55 - Sep 10 by Zx1988 |
OP makes a salient point.
Our government should not be standing idly by, whilst children (or adults, for that matter) drown because there is no safe/legal route into the UK for those who wish to seek asylum.
We need to either do a deal with France to allow for processing on French soil, or open up safe/legal routes so that those who wish to claim asylum here do not need to risk their lives in order to do so. [Post edited 10 Sep 16:58]
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By opening up safe legal routes you would have millions of people not thousands wanting to come to the Uk
My point if you read my previous posts is how we satisfy all their demands and needs and pay for it. It is an impossible task |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:59 - Sep 10 with 369 views | BlueBadger |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:51 - Sep 10 by onceablue |
By opening up safe legal routes you would have millions of people not thousands wanting to come to the Uk
My point if you read my previous posts is how we satisfy all their demands and needs and pay for it. It is an impossible task |
Have we received 'millions' of Ukrainians since opening up a safe and legal route for refugees from that (coincidentally, predominantly white) country? |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:00 - Sep 10 with 362 views | eireblue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:28 - Sep 10 by lowhouseblue |
that would massively expand the concept of refugee and hugely increase the incentive to travel and make dangerous journeys. if you are to open borders to everyone from countries experiencing poverty that's a huge proportion of the world population. it's a complicated way of saying that you favour open borders and you don't care who comes. that's not where the vast majority of uk voters stand. |
I am not really bothered by what the vast majority of U.K. voters may think.
If I wanted to say, “I favour open borders….etc”. What I would say is “I favour open borders….etc”.
Nowhere did I say something like, I would be happy for all people living in Dubai to move to Turkey. That would be an example of Open Borders and me not caring who moves where.
Versus
Oh hello, oh you’re from Niger and or Haiti, yea I heard it’s quite warm/wet/earthquaky this time of year, hungry, and in poverty, yea, go back home. |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:07 - Sep 10 with 329 views | lowhouseblue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:00 - Sep 10 by eireblue |
I am not really bothered by what the vast majority of U.K. voters may think.
If I wanted to say, “I favour open borders….etc”. What I would say is “I favour open borders….etc”.
Nowhere did I say something like, I would be happy for all people living in Dubai to move to Turkey. That would be an example of Open Borders and me not caring who moves where.
Versus
Oh hello, oh you’re from Niger and or Haiti, yea I heard it’s quite warm/wet/earthquaky this time of year, hungry, and in poverty, yea, go back home. |
but the practical effect of:
"Oh hello, oh you’re from Niger and or Haiti, yea I heard it’s quite warm/wet/earthquaky this time of year, hungry, and in poverty, so please come and live here"
is the same.
"I am not really bothered by what the vast majority of U.K. voters may think" - that's lovely, but before attacking those people as racist / bigoted / xenophobic you ought to first recognise that it's your views which are extreme. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:11 - Sep 10 with 303 views | onceablue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:59 - Sep 10 by BlueBadger |
Have we received 'millions' of Ukrainians since opening up a safe and legal route for refugees from that (coincidentally, predominantly white) country? |
No because the majority of men have decided to stay at home and fight the Russians.
The Women and children were also reluctant to leave their husbands/fathers | | | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:18 - Sep 10 with 286 views | djgooder |
Thing is, what we need to do, and is impossible to do, is distinguish between genuine refugees and those that come hear to not contribute and /or agitate eyc
There are too many examples of of rapes and murders, grooming gangs by illegal refugees. Not sure what that is as a % of the total and of course we only usually hear about the wrong uns.
There are organisations like the Muslim Brotherhood considered terrorist organisation and banned in many Arab countries but are allowed to flourish here because we don’t want to offend anyone or come across as racist.
It is horrendous that two young children en have died in the channel. But to try and say we shouldn’t stop men of fighting age come across in a sarcastic manner is poor. |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:24 - Sep 10 with 268 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:18 - Sep 10 by djgooder |
Thing is, what we need to do, and is impossible to do, is distinguish between genuine refugees and those that come hear to not contribute and /or agitate eyc
There are too many examples of of rapes and murders, grooming gangs by illegal refugees. Not sure what that is as a % of the total and of course we only usually hear about the wrong uns.
There are organisations like the Muslim Brotherhood considered terrorist organisation and banned in many Arab countries but are allowed to flourish here because we don’t want to offend anyone or come across as racist.
It is horrendous that two young children en have died in the channel. But to try and say we shouldn’t stop men of fighting age come across in a sarcastic manner is poor. |
How do the numbers of offenders compare to the percentages amongst, say, the Church of England, Westminster, or those who picket asylum hostels? | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:26 - Sep 10 with 263 views | djgooder |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:55 - Sep 10 by Zx1988 |
OP makes a salient point.
Our government should not be standing idly by, whilst children (or adults, for that matter) drown because there is no safe/legal route into the UK for those who wish to seek asylum.
We need to either do a deal with France to allow for processing on French soil, or open up safe/legal routes so that those who wish to claim asylum here do not need to risk their lives in order to do so. [Post edited 10 Sep 16:58]
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There are safe and legal routes.
Most people can get a holiday visa and fly here for a fraction of the costs they pay to people smuggling gangs. They can then apply for asylum when they arrive.
So why don’t they? Maybe they don’t want to declare their passports because we would see who they were and what their backgrounds are and therefore not they them in.
Does beg the question though why someone with young children would take this route. The absolute desperation must be horrendous. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:28 - Sep 10 with 260 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:26 - Sep 10 by djgooder |
There are safe and legal routes.
Most people can get a holiday visa and fly here for a fraction of the costs they pay to people smuggling gangs. They can then apply for asylum when they arrive.
So why don’t they? Maybe they don’t want to declare their passports because we would see who they were and what their backgrounds are and therefore not they them in.
Does beg the question though why someone with young children would take this route. The absolute desperation must be horrendous. |
Have you tried getting back to the UK from abroad? Most 'risk' countries now have UK border staff at the gate in the departure airport, conducting enhanced passport checks etc.,
Quite simply put, if you're wanting to seek asylum they won't be letting you within half a mile of the plane. | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:29 - Sep 10 with 250 views | djgooder |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 17:32 - Sep 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Most refugees do stop in the first safe country they reach. Over 2/3rds of all refugees globally are living in a country adjacent to where they have been displaced from. For the rest, they’ve a legal right to claim asylum wherever they want. And then just on a practical point it’s obviously daft to expect one country to take all refugees from a particular areas and nobody else to take any. |
Exactly. Turkey get way more than us as they are the first country! | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:30 - Sep 10 with 248 views | azuremerlangus |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:17 - Sep 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And that sums up how desperate they are.
I am sure no one would want to live in the conditions they are living in. Or bring their children up in them. |
I’ve been camping in France and it ain’t brilliant. |  |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:32 - Sep 10 with 229 views | djgooder |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:42 - Sep 10 by lowhouseblue |
why are they destitute in france? doesn't france have the same duties to support asylum seekers - in terms of accommodation and maintenance - as the uk? are they destitute because they have chosen to not to make a claim in france and / or they have had a claim rejected in france / elsewhere in the eu? |
The problem is that we are all in the same boat.
Mass immigration across the continent and one by one we are all starting to say stop.
This weekend there is going to be a mass rally in London. They are seen now in most European countries.
A solution is needed and just letting people in can’t be the permanent answer. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:36 - Sep 10 with 203 views | eireblue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:07 - Sep 10 by lowhouseblue |
but the practical effect of:
"Oh hello, oh you’re from Niger and or Haiti, yea I heard it’s quite warm/wet/earthquaky this time of year, hungry, and in poverty, so please come and live here"
is the same.
"I am not really bothered by what the vast majority of U.K. voters may think" - that's lovely, but before attacking those people as racist / bigoted / xenophobic you ought to first recognise that it's your views which are extreme. |
Strawman Farage argument.
Point out where I attacked people for being racist/bigoted/xenophopic?
The only people I have directly called racist on this forum, as an example, have been removed.
Once you have apologised for trying to imply what I may do, we might continue. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:37 - Sep 10 with 199 views | reusersfreekicks |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:15 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
Parents must feel awful putting them in unnecessary danger, you’d assume they were safe on dry land in France.
Edit - abuse?! Jesus Chris [Post edited 10 Sep 16:28]
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Judgmental f@ckwittery of the highest kind.
But no surprise from the poster |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:39 - Sep 10 with 200 views | djgooder |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:28 - Sep 10 by Zx1988 |
Have you tried getting back to the UK from abroad? Most 'risk' countries now have UK border staff at the gate in the departure airport, conducting enhanced passport checks etc.,
Quite simply put, if you're wanting to seek asylum they won't be letting you within half a mile of the plane. |
I have a foreign wife, every time we go on holiday she has to have significant additional checks.
But that’s the point. Border force guards can check she is safe to enter. People on the beach at Dover can’t, they come this route because the vast majority aren’t safe or desirable to live in the UK.
How we sift through and find the ones in desperate need is impossible, but as many have said, they have travelled through many safe countries to get to this point. Makes not sense. The argument they may have family/friends here doesn’t wash. If they are desperate for safety then that’s their priority. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:42 - Sep 10 with 175 views | reusersfreekicks |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 16:58 - Sep 10 by textbackup |
Nicely dodged.
You and I both have no idea of the sufferings. But as a dad I know if I’ve escaped whatever war torn country I’ve come from, that the first bit of safety and I’m staying put to ensure my children no longer face danger.
To me, if they’ve taken the decision to go that one step further, then they need to seriously look at themselves. I’m sure we won’t all agree on that. But there we go. |
Such ignorant horsesh1t
A Reform wet dream | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:42 - Sep 10 with 174 views | Zx1988 |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:39 - Sep 10 by djgooder |
I have a foreign wife, every time we go on holiday she has to have significant additional checks.
But that’s the point. Border force guards can check she is safe to enter. People on the beach at Dover can’t, they come this route because the vast majority aren’t safe or desirable to live in the UK.
How we sift through and find the ones in desperate need is impossible, but as many have said, they have travelled through many safe countries to get to this point. Makes not sense. The argument they may have family/friends here doesn’t wash. If they are desperate for safety then that’s their priority. |
Care to back up your allegations that 'the vast majority are neither safe nor desirable'? | |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:45 - Sep 10 with 171 views | Ftnfwest |
Yes stop the boats France! Pre judging everyone who puts up their own flag as being only a certain race only is also racial prejudice. |  | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:50 - Sep 10 with 142 views | goperryrevs |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 18:28 - Sep 10 by Radlett_blue |
Sorry, but the majority of asylum seekers aren't in immediate danger of death. They have taken a decision to leave their own country for another one where the chance of a decent life is much higher. They choose the UK over nearer European countries for a variety of reasons e.g. they speak some English, they probably have contacts over here who can help them find work etc. |
I'm interested in whether that's a statistical assertion or an observed or instinctual one.
I've got to know quite a few asylum seekers over the past year, who have been housed in a hotel near us, and although they're reticent to tell their stories straight away, over time I've heard bits of what they've gone through.
One well off middle class family had to flee overnight, I'd say yes, that their lives were in imminent danger.
Another girl arrived in a small boat with her young daughter. I won't repeat her story, but it was harrowing.
Another guy was a scumbag who should never have been let in.
Another family, I don't know their story in much depth, but they're lovely people.
Another family spent years in a refugee camp in eastern Europe before finally being allowed here. They too have a very interesting story.
Something that really frustrates me is how in our society we've conflated refugees with economic migrants. Your phrase, "taken a decision to leave their own country for another one where the chance of a decent life is much higher" would describe an economic migrant, not a refugee. Most refugees I've met don't want to be here, would rather be in their homeland, miss their homeland and would go home if circumstances changed, but due to persecution, abuse or danger, they had to leave. | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:51 - Sep 10 with 131 views | lowhouseblue |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:36 - Sep 10 by eireblue |
Strawman Farage argument.
Point out where I attacked people for being racist/bigoted/xenophopic?
The only people I have directly called racist on this forum, as an example, have been removed.
Once you have apologised for trying to imply what I may do, we might continue. |
not sure why it is a straw man. the effect of what you argue for would be to make immigration effectively unlimited.
i apologise if you're not one of the ones on here who routinely uses the racist / bigoted / xenophobic slurs to avoid discussing concerns about immigration - there are so many who do i just assumed you were part of that gang. since you don't i apologise. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:55 - Sep 10 with 128 views | reusersfreekicks |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:39 - Sep 10 by djgooder |
I have a foreign wife, every time we go on holiday she has to have significant additional checks.
But that’s the point. Border force guards can check she is safe to enter. People on the beach at Dover can’t, they come this route because the vast majority aren’t safe or desirable to live in the UK.
How we sift through and find the ones in desperate need is impossible, but as many have said, they have travelled through many safe countries to get to this point. Makes not sense. The argument they may have family/friends here doesn’t wash. If they are desperate for safety then that’s their priority. |
Where is your evidence for your slander of those arriving in boats?
Bet your wife wishes she would be prevented from returning with her bigoted bloke | | | |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:56 - Sep 10 with 116 views | djgooder |
| 2 children drowned in the Channel today on 19:42 - Sep 10 by Zx1988 |
Care to back up your allegations that 'the vast majority are neither safe nor desirable'? |
Of course I can’t.
But it feels like common sense to me. If they can’t get a passport, and / or background checks are bad why would we want them.
I had a boss once when i lived in Barnsley a few years back. He had been part of the Barnsley 5 0 the football gang in the 80s . he had been in prison quite a few times. When I knew him he seemed a decent chap and I would never have guessed if he hadn’t told me. However he had since settle d and had a family and wanted to take his kids to Disneyland on the USA. They yanks wouldn’t let him travel. And neither should they.
This is my thought process. Of course I don’t know individual cases and there will always be people that miss out unfairly. | | | |
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