| No smoke without fire: on 08:17 - Nov 12 with 732 views | Herbivore |
| No smoke without fire: on 07:55 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Because they think he’s a class traitor. He’s somebody who grew up in abject poverty and now in a position of power. But he is using his lived experiences to think outside traditional leftist dogma to put in practical measures he believes will help the poor above a socialist utopia and ideology that many on the far left can afford to experiment with. The irony of those wanting “comrade Andy” is that Burnham’s actually the only heath secretary to privatise an NHS hospital.
The working class have always been a great disappointment to the metropolitan lefty luvies. [Post edited 12 Nov 7:58]
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What a patronising pile of sh!te. That you, a lifelong Tory, quite like Streeting is why many traditional Labour supporters don't see him as politically palatable. It's got nothing to do with class. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:17 - Nov 12 with 730 views | Perublue |
Burnham always reminds me of Deggsy Hatton whether that’s fair or not I just can’t kick it out of my mind therefore he’d be a no from me.
Streeting I feel should stay in his lane and sort the NHS out or put it on its path. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 12 with 725 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:11 - Nov 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Glasgow Blue would vote for him. |
Labour won the last election because people like me ,who are not traditional Labour voters, voted for them. That’s his winning elections work mate. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:21 - Nov 12 with 718 views | thebooks |
| No smoke without fire: on 07:40 - Nov 12 by giant_stow |
Whats everyone got against Streeting, out of interest? Not standing up for him - just having been paying attentíon... |
He's very pro-private provision in the NHS for one thing. If Starmer's lack of vision, willingness to take on Reform in any meaningful way, or to tackle the basic modern problems of affordability is a problem, it's hard to envision Wes Streeting changing that. If anything, he's more "There is no alternative" than Starmer.
He's also going to lose his seat at the next election, but I guess that could be solved by giving him a safer seat. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:22 - Nov 12 with 715 views | DarkBrandon |
| No smoke without fire: on 07:51 - Nov 12 by DJR |
I come from it as a former member of the Labour Party, and it's political for me: and I'm not a Corbynista.
In addition, he will not change the direction of travel of the Labour Party because he is signed up to the project which has led us to where we are.
And in my view, from a presentational point of view, he has the same slightly robotic manner that both Stamer and Reeves have.
As it is, my suspicion of Streeting started when as president of the National Union of Students, he supported tuition fees.
[Post edited 12 Nov 9:22]
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I'm sorry, but your scepticism about the political positioning of Streeting is blinding you to his communication skills.
He is by some distance the best communicator the Labour party has, and I can't think of anyone the Tories has with his (natural) skills.
I suspect that he'd prove to be too young and inexperienced to thrive as PM, but communications he could do. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:22 - Nov 12 with 713 views | giant_stow |
Thanks for the thoughts chaps. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:23 - Nov 12 with 707 views | LutherBlissett |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Labour won the last election because people like me ,who are not traditional Labour voters, voted for them. That’s his winning elections work mate. |
Going well for them isn't it. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:26 - Nov 12 with 704 views | thebooks |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:17 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
What a patronising pile of sh!te. That you, a lifelong Tory, quite like Streeting is why many traditional Labour supporters don't see him as politically palatable. It's got nothing to do with class. |
Seriously, I'd put that poster on ignore. He obviously went down some sort of weird rabbithole years ago, and only posts to provoke anyone who's left of Starmer (there's another edgelord who does it, can't remember his name unfortunately!) | | | |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:29 - Nov 12 with 686 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Labour won the last election because people like me ,who are not traditional Labour voters, voted for them. That’s his winning elections work mate. |
How come everyone you ever voted for turned out to be a loser and make most of us poorer in the end! |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:37 - Nov 12 with 657 views | DarkBrandon |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:21 - Nov 12 by thebooks |
He's very pro-private provision in the NHS for one thing. If Starmer's lack of vision, willingness to take on Reform in any meaningful way, or to tackle the basic modern problems of affordability is a problem, it's hard to envision Wes Streeting changing that. If anything, he's more "There is no alternative" than Starmer.
He's also going to lose his seat at the next election, but I guess that could be solved by giving him a safer seat. |
His strategy of managing the crisis in the NHS by using private provision in the short term whilst building up the NHS capacity in the medium term seems to me the right one. Refusing to buy in existing capacity would have the effect of making outcomes for patients poorer due to ideology.
Regarding a new seat. I wonder if Holborn and St Pancras might be available. That is pretty safe. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:43 - Nov 12 with 640 views | thebooks |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:37 - Nov 12 by DarkBrandon |
His strategy of managing the crisis in the NHS by using private provision in the short term whilst building up the NHS capacity in the medium term seems to me the right one. Refusing to buy in existing capacity would have the effect of making outcomes for patients poorer due to ideology.
Regarding a new seat. I wonder if Holborn and St Pancras might be available. That is pretty safe. |
I think his strategy is to use private provision longterm. Equally, you could argue his commitment to the private sector is pure ideology (although pragmatic if you take a look at his donors) :-)
I doubt Holborn is that safe, especially if independents and Your Party step aside for The Greens.
Does raise the question of where exactly is a safe seat for Labour. Burnham is popular, but Reform would take most northwest seats at the moment. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:46 - Nov 12 with 632 views | Pinewoodblue |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:22 - Nov 12 by DarkBrandon |
I'm sorry, but your scepticism about the political positioning of Streeting is blinding you to his communication skills.
He is by some distance the best communicator the Labour party has, and I can't think of anyone the Tories has with his (natural) skills.
I suspect that he'd prove to be too young and inexperienced to thrive as PM, but communications he could do. |
It isn’t Streetung’s ability to communicate that is being doubted
It is that he would follow a path much the same as the one Starmer is currently on. Neither are really socialists but more Tory light. The worst of both worlds. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 09:00 - Nov 12 with 605 views | DarkBrandon |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:46 - Nov 12 by Pinewoodblue |
It isn’t Streetung’s ability to communicate that is being doubted
It is that he would follow a path much the same as the one Starmer is currently on. Neither are really socialists but more Tory light. The worst of both worlds. |
DJR said:
"And in my view, from a presentational point of view, he has the same slightly robotic manner that both Stamer and Reeves have."
which is patently untrue.
Starmer's weaknesses in my view are:
* Lack of understanding about how modern political comms work. The need to repeat a message ("long term economic plan") ad nauseum.
* Lack of natural ease with the meda
* Lack of political ideology. This means that not only does he not have answers to questions he hasn't thought about, nobody else in the cabinet or his staff knows what those answers are likely to be. Hence no quick answers/positions appear.
He is though in many ways running a significantly left of centre government.
* In the last budget Reeves increased borrowing significantly to fund investment
* They are nationalising the trains
* They'd passed a lot of costs directly onto businesses - and a lot of that is going onto the NHS
* The renter's rights bill is a big intervention in that market
Plus the reforms to planning are intended to help with the housing crisis, although are less obviously socialist.
But the point is ... who knows about this stuff? They don't repeat the things they have done, so nobody knows about them even when they do exist (and socialists would support them). | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:05 - Nov 12 with 586 views | MattinLondon |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:29 - Nov 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
How come everyone you ever voted for turned out to be a loser and make most of us poorer in the end! |
To be fair, you both helped to make the country poorer by voting for Brexit. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:16 - Nov 12 with 555 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:05 - Nov 12 by MattinLondon |
To be fair, you both helped to make the country poorer by voting for Brexit. |
No problem with my vote still personally as I still believe the institution that is the EU is still part of the problem rather than a solution to society's problems (pro multinational/globalist/offshoring) and the continued drift to the right might suggest I'm right. | |
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| No smoke without fire: on 09:30 - Nov 12 with 522 views | DJR |
| No smoke without fire: on 07:55 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Because they think he’s a class traitor. He’s somebody who grew up in abject poverty and now in a position of power. But he is using his lived experiences to think outside traditional leftist dogma to put in practical measures he believes will help the poor above a socialist utopia and ideology that many on the far left can afford to experiment with. The irony of those wanting “comrade Andy” is that Burnham’s actually the only heath secretary to privatise an NHS hospital.
The working class have always been a great disappointment to the metropolitan lefty luvies. [Post edited 12 Nov 7:58]
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That's very wide of the mark. Indeed, I didn't know anything about Streeting's roots until his book.
Members of the Labour Party don't worry about class of their MPs just their policies. As it is, I believe I am right in saying that the current Cabinet has no public school-educated members, the first time this has ever happened. And people like Raynor (admittedly no longer a member), Philipson and Darren Jones all come from from very humble backgrounds. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:30 - Nov 12 with 529 views | jasondozzell |
For anyone who hasn't been paying attention at the back:
Since 2018, the very worst people on the Labour right were plotting to destroy the Corbyn anti austerity movement because they didn't like not being in the top jobs or in control.
A man named Morgan Mcsweeney who most of the public won't have heard of until the last year (if that) was at the heart of this. Despite considering himself an electoral genius his only qualification was that he was in charge of sourcing huge business bungs for Labour and the work dried up when the membership funded the party which he did not like.
Morgan and the Labour right then cynically wrecked the Corbyn project before boasting about it later to the press who were in cahoots because they live in Zone 2 London homes with kitchen islands and want to keep it that way. They told journalists what they were doing in 2018.
Starmer lied to win the leadership and recruited some of the most awful people to be Labour MPs.
They won an election based on lies and deceit and being glad handed in by the press who didn't want to ask any difficult questions because they were all in on it. The whole thing was vibes based and the only people who actually believed in it were a small sliver of the professional managerial class (also with kitchen islands) who love the idea that they are sensible rational and clever people. They're not because they listen to the rest is politics podcast but there you go. They thought it was going to be 1997 and the adults back in the room. It was not 1997.
A political project without any plan other than wrecking the left predictably crashed as soon as they entered number 10. All they have achieved is ensuring a Reform majority government is next.
Now it's just rats in a sack time where Wes will be presented as the change that is needed despite being exactly the same type of ghoulish Labour right figure as Starmer. The press might well back it because otherwise they might have to face some tricky questions.
Anyone thinking Burnham is the answer hasn't paid enough attention to what has happened to the party and where centrism has led us.
At the gravest of times we have a clown show going on and all because centrists couldn't bear being wrong.
Labour party will probably never be elected in government again. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:34 - Nov 12 with 516 views | MattinLondon |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:16 - Nov 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
No problem with my vote still personally as I still believe the institution that is the EU is still part of the problem rather than a solution to society's problems (pro multinational/globalist/offshoring) and the continued drift to the right might suggest I'm right. |
If you firmly believe that leaving the EU was the right thing to do then obviously you’re entitled to that viewpoint. But the drift to the right was primarily due to leaving the EU - the Tories moving into that direction under the pathetic May, BJ and Truss.
Without Brexit, the Tories would probably be a lot more sensible and in the middle ground with politics in general not being so hate-filled. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:34 - Nov 12 with 516 views | DJR |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Labour won the last election because people like me ,who are not traditional Labour voters, voted for them. That’s his winning elections work mate. |
33% of the electorate in the face of hugely unpopular government is hardly a ringing endorsement of what they were offering. And so it has turned out. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:37 - Nov 12 with 509 views | DJR |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:22 - Nov 12 by DarkBrandon |
I'm sorry, but your scepticism about the political positioning of Streeting is blinding you to his communication skills.
He is by some distance the best communicator the Labour party has, and I can't think of anyone the Tories has with his (natural) skills.
I suspect that he'd prove to be too young and inexperienced to thrive as PM, but communications he could do. |
He's slick, I give you, but for me something is lacking when it comes to his communication skills. And were he to become PM, he would be subject to my more scrutiny. [Post edited 12 Nov 9:38]
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| No smoke without fire: on 09:44 - Nov 12 with 485 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:34 - Nov 12 by MattinLondon |
If you firmly believe that leaving the EU was the right thing to do then obviously you’re entitled to that viewpoint. But the drift to the right was primarily due to leaving the EU - the Tories moving into that direction under the pathetic May, BJ and Truss.
Without Brexit, the Tories would probably be a lot more sensible and in the middle ground with politics in general not being so hate-filled. |
I was referring to the drift across the whole of Europe. | |
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| No smoke without fire: on 09:53 - Nov 12 with 470 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:51 - Nov 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Barry Gardner just nailed it. Streeting is no choice at all! |
If Barry Gardner can assassinate you, then you most definitely aren't up to the job.
Which he isn't.
Labour's most charismatic and voter-friendly politician has got his timing wrong, and isn't in the Commons now the opportunity has arisen.
Or maybe he has his timing right, and will preside over the rebirth from the ashes, when he can attack Farage on his record? | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 10:06 - Nov 12 with 453 views | J2BLUE |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:30 - Nov 12 by jasondozzell |
For anyone who hasn't been paying attention at the back:
Since 2018, the very worst people on the Labour right were plotting to destroy the Corbyn anti austerity movement because they didn't like not being in the top jobs or in control.
A man named Morgan Mcsweeney who most of the public won't have heard of until the last year (if that) was at the heart of this. Despite considering himself an electoral genius his only qualification was that he was in charge of sourcing huge business bungs for Labour and the work dried up when the membership funded the party which he did not like.
Morgan and the Labour right then cynically wrecked the Corbyn project before boasting about it later to the press who were in cahoots because they live in Zone 2 London homes with kitchen islands and want to keep it that way. They told journalists what they were doing in 2018.
Starmer lied to win the leadership and recruited some of the most awful people to be Labour MPs.
They won an election based on lies and deceit and being glad handed in by the press who didn't want to ask any difficult questions because they were all in on it. The whole thing was vibes based and the only people who actually believed in it were a small sliver of the professional managerial class (also with kitchen islands) who love the idea that they are sensible rational and clever people. They're not because they listen to the rest is politics podcast but there you go. They thought it was going to be 1997 and the adults back in the room. It was not 1997.
A political project without any plan other than wrecking the left predictably crashed as soon as they entered number 10. All they have achieved is ensuring a Reform majority government is next.
Now it's just rats in a sack time where Wes will be presented as the change that is needed despite being exactly the same type of ghoulish Labour right figure as Starmer. The press might well back it because otherwise they might have to face some tricky questions.
Anyone thinking Burnham is the answer hasn't paid enough attention to what has happened to the party and where centrism has led us.
At the gravest of times we have a clown show going on and all because centrists couldn't bear being wrong.
Labour party will probably never be elected in government again. |
At the gravest of times we have a clown show going on and all because centrists couldn't bear being wrong.
Just to be clear, is being wrong in this example not supporting Corbyn? |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 10:16 - Nov 12 with 431 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:17 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
What a patronising pile of sh!te. That you, a lifelong Tory, quite like Streeting is why many traditional Labour supporters don't see him as politically palatable. It's got nothing to do with class. |
I knew my post was guaranteed to upset th right people. I even got a downvote from our "new" poster. | |
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| No smoke without fire: on 10:29 - Nov 12 with 410 views | lowhouseblue |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Labour won the last election because people like me ,who are not traditional Labour voters, voted for them. That’s his winning elections work mate. |
politics and democracy summarised in two sentences. after all this time there are people who still don't understand that their views are in a minority and they can only win elections by compromising with people who have different views. but that's the essence of politics. if it wasn't for the need to win votes and deal with real world economic constraints they'd have all the answers. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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