| Starmer is a dead man walking 12:37 - Feb 4 with 15885 views | hype313 |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:24 - Feb 4 with 1255 views | NedPlimpton |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:18 - Feb 4 by darkhorse28 |
Abandoning a role as Mayor for careerist ambition, is hardly the sort of person with leadership qualities .., he was desperate to promote devolved power.
It’s starting to look like everyone is humblest for self interest .., Starmer put party and integrity FIRST., it used to be what Labour stood for.
Values.., finish the job and then go and be an MP. He also couldn’t wait to get away from Westminster when it suited him! |
you know being in favour of devolved power and being PM aren't mutually exclusive, right? |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:33 - Feb 4 with 1219 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:17 - Feb 4 by Bobbychase |
In the wider picture, Labour are actually being the grown-ups we needed as a country after Boris/Truss, but even someone as monochrome as Starmer can't seem to avoid scandal. |
Haha you can't be serious.
These were always the very worst people at the very worst time.
The grown ups got back in the room and it turned out that they were the worst of the lot.
Who was Mandelson's protege? It was common knowledge.
A lot of centrist dad, rest is politics brigade, James o'brien types aren't going to like looking stupid but that's basically what they were.
Nothing grown up about this government that was only ever going to result in a Reform majority government
Next stop on the slow moving car crash - Wes! [Post edited 4 Feb 14:33]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:33 - Feb 4 with 1227 views | grow_our_own |
Not expecting many upticks here. I don't think Starmer generally prefers paedophiles' friends in his appointments. Fact is, one of Epstein's friends was the President of the US. If you're going to hire someone to smooth relations with your most important ally, good to pick a person with historical association with the boss. Fair to assume that, for obvious reasons, unlike Prince Andrew, Mandelson was unlikely to have partook in the abuse of girls. If you unilaterally cut ties with your biggest trading partner, then one way or another, you need to strengthen relations with your next biggest one. The UK was in a very weak position in foreign relations since departing the most powerful block of countries in the world.
I'm not saying I agree with the appointment, but that was the motivation. Starmer sacked Mandelson when deeper ties to Epstein became apparent. Are no accusations that Starmer knew Mandelson took bribes for opposing banking taxes prior to appointing him as ambassador. Compare that to last tory govt:
- refusal to sack Cummings after breaching covid regs
- refusal to sack Patel for bullying breach of ministerial code
- ignored reports of Chris Pincher's sexual misconduct when appointing him as a whip
- initially refused to remove whip from Owen Patterson when caught advocating in commons for company he was secretly paid to advise
- unlawfully prorogued parliament
- didn't disclose "gifts" to decorate no 10 flat
These wrongs don't make a right, but let's get some perspective. Starmer's Labour and last Tory govt aren't guilty of the same degree of sleaze. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:35]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:37 - Feb 4 with 1191 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:33 - Feb 4 by grow_our_own |
Not expecting many upticks here. I don't think Starmer generally prefers paedophiles' friends in his appointments. Fact is, one of Epstein's friends was the President of the US. If you're going to hire someone to smooth relations with your most important ally, good to pick a person with historical association with the boss. Fair to assume that, for obvious reasons, unlike Prince Andrew, Mandelson was unlikely to have partook in the abuse of girls. If you unilaterally cut ties with your biggest trading partner, then one way or another, you need to strengthen relations with your next biggest one. The UK was in a very weak position in foreign relations since departing the most powerful block of countries in the world.
I'm not saying I agree with the appointment, but that was the motivation. Starmer sacked Mandelson when deeper ties to Epstein became apparent. Are no accusations that Starmer knew Mandelson took bribes for opposing banking taxes prior to appointing him as ambassador. Compare that to last tory govt:
- refusal to sack Cummings after breaching covid regs
- refusal to sack Patel for bullying breach of ministerial code
- ignored reports of Chris Pincher's sexual misconduct when appointing him as a whip
- initially refused to remove whip from Owen Patterson when caught advocating in commons for company he was secretly paid to advise
- unlawfully prorogued parliament
- didn't disclose "gifts" to decorate no 10 flat
These wrongs don't make a right, but let's get some perspective. Starmer's Labour and last Tory govt aren't guilty of the same degree of sleaze. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:35]
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There's no such thing as 'Starmer's Labour' though.
There was only the Labour right, New Labour, Mandelson's cabal. They've even told you - 'it's like the Docklands railway - the PM thinks he's sitting at the front driving but he's not it's us'.
Starmer an empty vessel full of ambition and nothing else.
Boris eating some cake looks quaint compared to all this. | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:38 - Feb 4 with 1195 views | thebooks |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:33 - Feb 4 by grow_our_own |
Not expecting many upticks here. I don't think Starmer generally prefers paedophiles' friends in his appointments. Fact is, one of Epstein's friends was the President of the US. If you're going to hire someone to smooth relations with your most important ally, good to pick a person with historical association with the boss. Fair to assume that, for obvious reasons, unlike Prince Andrew, Mandelson was unlikely to have partook in the abuse of girls. If you unilaterally cut ties with your biggest trading partner, then one way or another, you need to strengthen relations with your next biggest one. The UK was in a very weak position in foreign relations since departing the most powerful block of countries in the world.
I'm not saying I agree with the appointment, but that was the motivation. Starmer sacked Mandelson when deeper ties to Epstein became apparent. Are no accusations that Starmer knew Mandelson took bribes for opposing banking taxes prior to appointing him as ambassador. Compare that to last tory govt:
- refusal to sack Cummings after breaching covid regs
- refusal to sack Patel for bullying breach of ministerial code
- ignored reports of Chris Pincher's sexual misconduct when appointing him as a whip
- initially refused to remove whip from Owen Patterson when caught advocating in commons for company he was secretly paid to advise
- unlawfully prorogued parliament
- didn't disclose "gifts" to decorate no 10 flat
These wrongs don't make a right, but let's get some perspective. Starmer's Labour and last Tory govt aren't guilty of the same degree of sleaze. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:35]
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Oh my, have you not seen what he did? He gave insider knowledge from government to a private financier about a multi-billion euro bail-out.
The links were public knowledge, and, as he admitted today, Starmer was warned about the “ongoing” relationship.
Yes, Mandelson is gay, but…
"Free and home," Epstein emails Lord Mandelson at 08.37am on 22 July, as he left a Florida prison following an 18-month sentence for soliciting sex with a minor.
"How shall we celebrate?" writes back Mandelson, who was then business secretary under Gordon Brown.
"With grace and modesty (those are the names of two strippers)," Epstein replies.
"From now on, grace and modesty sd [should] be discovered in London," Mandelson appears to joke back a few hours later, before adding: "How is freedom feeling?"
"She feels fresh, firm and creamy," Epstein says.
Mandelson responds with two words: "Naughty boy." |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:46 - Feb 4 with 1141 views | jayessess |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:33 - Feb 4 by grow_our_own |
Not expecting many upticks here. I don't think Starmer generally prefers paedophiles' friends in his appointments. Fact is, one of Epstein's friends was the President of the US. If you're going to hire someone to smooth relations with your most important ally, good to pick a person with historical association with the boss. Fair to assume that, for obvious reasons, unlike Prince Andrew, Mandelson was unlikely to have partook in the abuse of girls. If you unilaterally cut ties with your biggest trading partner, then one way or another, you need to strengthen relations with your next biggest one. The UK was in a very weak position in foreign relations since departing the most powerful block of countries in the world.
I'm not saying I agree with the appointment, but that was the motivation. Starmer sacked Mandelson when deeper ties to Epstein became apparent. Are no accusations that Starmer knew Mandelson took bribes for opposing banking taxes prior to appointing him as ambassador. Compare that to last tory govt:
- refusal to sack Cummings after breaching covid regs
- refusal to sack Patel for bullying breach of ministerial code
- ignored reports of Chris Pincher's sexual misconduct when appointing him as a whip
- initially refused to remove whip from Owen Patterson when caught advocating in commons for company he was secretly paid to advise
- unlawfully prorogued parliament
- didn't disclose "gifts" to decorate no 10 flat
These wrongs don't make a right, but let's get some perspective. Starmer's Labour and last Tory govt aren't guilty of the same degree of sleaze. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:35]
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I don't think that was the logic at all (IMO it was more that Mandelson was within their network of patronage and it was a jobs for the boys kind of thing).
But, even if it *was* all calculated in the country's best interests - exactly how stupid and how naive would you have to be to think it was a good idea? The British civil service employs plenty of very skilled diplomats who would have done a perfectly adequate job. Your first job as a political leader is to maintain the integrity and stability of your own administration, without that nothing else matters. It was obvious to pretty much everyone that appointing Mandelson to this role was a massive potential liability to the government, his dodginess was extremely well known. It's just a catastrophic political judgement, regardless of anything else. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:51 - Feb 4 with 1105 views | grow_our_own |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:38 - Feb 4 by thebooks |
Oh my, have you not seen what he did? He gave insider knowledge from government to a private financier about a multi-billion euro bail-out.
The links were public knowledge, and, as he admitted today, Starmer was warned about the “ongoing” relationship.
Yes, Mandelson is gay, but…
"Free and home," Epstein emails Lord Mandelson at 08.37am on 22 July, as he left a Florida prison following an 18-month sentence for soliciting sex with a minor.
"How shall we celebrate?" writes back Mandelson, who was then business secretary under Gordon Brown.
"With grace and modesty (those are the names of two strippers)," Epstein replies.
"From now on, grace and modesty sd [should] be discovered in London," Mandelson appears to joke back a few hours later, before adding: "How is freedom feeling?"
"She feels fresh, firm and creamy," Epstein says.
Mandelson responds with two words: "Naughty boy." |
"The links were public knowledge" - Fair to assume Starmer knew or at least should have known the content of the FT story, which was the entirety of the "public knowledge" prior to the appointment. What did that say? Mandelson had met with Epstein and stayed at his house post-conviction. That's on Starmer. I'm not saying it's not. YMMV, but for the reasons I gave above, I don't think that alone is worthy of resuming the Prime Minister carousel. We've had five in seven years. Enough already. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:53]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:51 - Feb 4 with 1104 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:38 - Feb 4 by thebooks |
Oh my, have you not seen what he did? He gave insider knowledge from government to a private financier about a multi-billion euro bail-out.
The links were public knowledge, and, as he admitted today, Starmer was warned about the “ongoing” relationship.
Yes, Mandelson is gay, but…
"Free and home," Epstein emails Lord Mandelson at 08.37am on 22 July, as he left a Florida prison following an 18-month sentence for soliciting sex with a minor.
"How shall we celebrate?" writes back Mandelson, who was then business secretary under Gordon Brown.
"With grace and modesty (those are the names of two strippers)," Epstein replies.
"From now on, grace and modesty sd [should] be discovered in London," Mandelson appears to joke back a few hours later, before adding: "How is freedom feeling?"
"She feels fresh, firm and creamy," Epstein says.
Mandelson responds with two words: "Naughty boy." |
It's going to be interesting to find out when the complicity in the banking crisis and the undermining of Gordon Brown became common knowledge, if it ever did before the release of these Epstein files. The devil will be in the detail...but the perceptions will be in the spin that can be put on public sentiment. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:52 - Feb 4 with 1106 views | hype313 |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:33 - Feb 4 by grow_our_own |
Not expecting many upticks here. I don't think Starmer generally prefers paedophiles' friends in his appointments. Fact is, one of Epstein's friends was the President of the US. If you're going to hire someone to smooth relations with your most important ally, good to pick a person with historical association with the boss. Fair to assume that, for obvious reasons, unlike Prince Andrew, Mandelson was unlikely to have partook in the abuse of girls. If you unilaterally cut ties with your biggest trading partner, then one way or another, you need to strengthen relations with your next biggest one. The UK was in a very weak position in foreign relations since departing the most powerful block of countries in the world.
I'm not saying I agree with the appointment, but that was the motivation. Starmer sacked Mandelson when deeper ties to Epstein became apparent. Are no accusations that Starmer knew Mandelson took bribes for opposing banking taxes prior to appointing him as ambassador. Compare that to last tory govt:
- refusal to sack Cummings after breaching covid regs
- refusal to sack Patel for bullying breach of ministerial code
- ignored reports of Chris Pincher's sexual misconduct when appointing him as a whip
- initially refused to remove whip from Owen Patterson when caught advocating in commons for company he was secretly paid to advise
- unlawfully prorogued parliament
- didn't disclose "gifts" to decorate no 10 flat
These wrongs don't make a right, but let's get some perspective. Starmer's Labour and last Tory govt aren't guilty of the same degree of sleaze. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:35]
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Whilst you rightly state what the Tories did, they got absolutely annihilated for it, we now supposedly have the grown ups in charge, not looking good though is it.
And are we at the point where as long as the Tories did it, it's fair game for Labour to have a few misdemeanors? | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:05 - Feb 4 with 1044 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:51 - Feb 4 by grow_our_own |
"The links were public knowledge" - Fair to assume Starmer knew or at least should have known the content of the FT story, which was the entirety of the "public knowledge" prior to the appointment. What did that say? Mandelson had met with Epstein and stayed at his house post-conviction. That's on Starmer. I'm not saying it's not. YMMV, but for the reasons I gave above, I don't think that alone is worthy of resuming the Prime Minister carousel. We've had five in seven years. Enough already. [Post edited 4 Feb 14:53]
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What does the four letter acronym 'YMMV' stand for ?
Anyway, just about all political commentators regard Trump as the most unpredictable leader of a major power since the Second World War so the posting of a cautious career diplomat was unlikely to succeed. Starmer, it seems, took an uncharacteristic gamble on an old hand from the Blair years (hasn't Tony done well to keep out of this all...so far) who should have had more nous in what the United States was up to but in this instance setting a thief to catch a thief hasn't worked. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:06 - Feb 4 with 1034 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:46 - Feb 4 by Pinewoodblue |
He accepted the recommendation of his advisors, it was a risky appointment and one that shouldn’t have been made. An error of judgement by Starmer. To say this has only happened because Mandy lied to his advisors is pathetic. |
I can't believe that our security services weren't aware of most of what has been released in the Epstein files and didn't brief the PM. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:07 - Feb 4 with 1033 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:37 - Feb 4 by jasondozzell |
There's no such thing as 'Starmer's Labour' though.
There was only the Labour right, New Labour, Mandelson's cabal. They've even told you - 'it's like the Docklands railway - the PM thinks he's sitting at the front driving but he's not it's us'.
Starmer an empty vessel full of ambition and nothing else.
Boris eating some cake looks quaint compared to all this. |
New Labour morphed into Labour Together, a shady organisation run by McSweeney which from 2017 plotted the downfall of Corbyn and the total control of the Labour by the right of the party.
In the period 2017-2020, when its existence and purpose was largely unknown, it failed to disclose £740,000 in donations, and was fined £14,250 by the Electoral Commission in 2021. Indeed, the declarations were only disclosed in 2020 after Starmer had won the leadership and McSweeney had stood down as director.
https://www.channel4.com/news/
Labour Together remained a fairly shady and unknown organisation until it came out into open in 2023 when the following appeared on its website. Unsurprisingly, it no longer appears on its website but was captured by the Internet Archive.
https://web.archive.org/web/20 https:/labourtogether.uk/what-
"Labour Together was built by a group of MPs - Shabana Mahmood, Steve Reed, Bridget Philipson, Wes Streeting, Lucy Powell, Rachel Reeves, Jim McMahon, Jon Cruddas and Lisa Nandy - who wanted to see Labour back in power.
In Labour’s wilderness years, Labour Together fought to make the party electable again. In 2020, with Morgan McSweeney as Director, it united the party behind Keir Starmer’s leadership campaign. In the years since, Keir Starmer has reformed the party, placed the country’s interests at its heart, and put Labour on the path to power."
Given all this, it is difficult to think of an alternative to Starmer who is not in some way tarred by the mess Labour has got into by relying so heavily on McSweeney.
As it is, I have always thought that McSweeney saw Streeting as more his man than Starmer. But it is interesting to see that Streeting has been deleting posts relating to Mandelson.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/
And let's not forget that Mandelson's protege, McSweeney, was the driver of Mandelson's appointment as US ambassador. [Post edited 4 Feb 15:15]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:16 - Feb 4 with 1003 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 12:51 - Feb 4 by hype313 |
A few politcal commentators have said it's the biggest political scandal of their lifetime. |
I don't really want to play "Most Bad Scandal Top Trumps" when thousands of women have been sexually abused and some have lost their lives, but the PPE "Fast Track" scam, which prioritised friends of ministers and Tory Party donors over long-established NHS suppliers, led to shortages of life-saving basic equipment, unfulfilled orders, and the supply of faulty and inadequate PPE in other cases, during the biggest public health crisis the nation has faced since the formation of the NHS. Many lives were lost as a result of inadequate PPE provision. This went straight to the heart of Government policy. The Secretary of State for Health, Matt Hancock, directly recommended his friend, a local pub landlord with no import/export experience, for preferential contractor status.
The Epstein scandal is first and foremost about the abuse of thousands of women, as a result of a highly manipulative, abusive individual gaining influence and Kompromat over many VIPs, primarily in the US establishment, but of course in the UK and other European nations, too. It is a very different kind of scandal.
Neither should be forgotten, and if the Prime Minister has displayed serious errors of judgement in his dealings with Mandelson, which is looking likely, then Labour MPs need to have the courage to hold him fully to account. | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:19 - Feb 4 with 997 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:07 - Feb 4 by DJR |
New Labour morphed into Labour Together, a shady organisation run by McSweeney which from 2017 plotted the downfall of Corbyn and the total control of the Labour by the right of the party.
In the period 2017-2020, when its existence and purpose was largely unknown, it failed to disclose £740,000 in donations, and was fined £14,250 by the Electoral Commission in 2021. Indeed, the declarations were only disclosed in 2020 after Starmer had won the leadership and McSweeney had stood down as director.
https://www.channel4.com/news/
Labour Together remained a fairly shady and unknown organisation until it came out into open in 2023 when the following appeared on its website. Unsurprisingly, it no longer appears on its website but was captured by the Internet Archive.
https://web.archive.org/web/20 https:/labourtogether.uk/what-
"Labour Together was built by a group of MPs - Shabana Mahmood, Steve Reed, Bridget Philipson, Wes Streeting, Lucy Powell, Rachel Reeves, Jim McMahon, Jon Cruddas and Lisa Nandy - who wanted to see Labour back in power.
In Labour’s wilderness years, Labour Together fought to make the party electable again. In 2020, with Morgan McSweeney as Director, it united the party behind Keir Starmer’s leadership campaign. In the years since, Keir Starmer has reformed the party, placed the country’s interests at its heart, and put Labour on the path to power."
Given all this, it is difficult to think of an alternative to Starmer who is not in some way tarred by the mess Labour has got into by relying so heavily on McSweeney.
As it is, I have always thought that McSweeney saw Streeting as more his man than Starmer. But it is interesting to see that Streeting has been deleting posts relating to Mandelson.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/
And let's not forget that Mandelson's protege, McSweeney, was the driver of Mandelson's appointment as US ambassador. [Post edited 4 Feb 15:15]
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Precisely. Well mapped out!
And the tragedy is that the 'rest is politics' centrist types were totally oblivious to all this because they fell for the corrupt press feeding them stories about Corbyn being a deranged country hating spy etc etc.
They liked the idea of 'forensic Keir' because it was how they saw themselves - the professional managerial class navel gazing as usual.
There was nothing behind this government other than a wrecking job on the Labour left.
Will be interesting to see how people try and defend it all now! [Post edited 4 Feb 15:20]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:38 - Feb 4 with 950 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:38 - Feb 4 by thebooks |
Oh my, have you not seen what he did? He gave insider knowledge from government to a private financier about a multi-billion euro bail-out.
The links were public knowledge, and, as he admitted today, Starmer was warned about the “ongoing” relationship.
Yes, Mandelson is gay, but…
"Free and home," Epstein emails Lord Mandelson at 08.37am on 22 July, as he left a Florida prison following an 18-month sentence for soliciting sex with a minor.
"How shall we celebrate?" writes back Mandelson, who was then business secretary under Gordon Brown.
"With grace and modesty (those are the names of two strippers)," Epstein replies.
"From now on, grace and modesty sd [should] be discovered in London," Mandelson appears to joke back a few hours later, before adding: "How is freedom feeling?"
"She feels fresh, firm and creamy," Epstein says.
Mandelson responds with two words: "Naughty boy." |
This is very shocking too.
https://www.theguardian.com/po
"On a brisk Monday evening in May 2010, Gordon Brown stood on the steps of Downing Street and delivered one of the most dramatic announcements of the New Labour era: his resignation as UK prime minister.
The decision came days after a nail-biting general election that left no single party with a clear run at No 10. Brown kept his decision, which followed days of political wrangling, to a tight inner circle. Nick Clegg, who would go on to serve as deputy prime minister of the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition, was formally told of Brown’s resignation only 10 minutes before the announcement.
But across the pond, a man named Jeffrey Epstein, a well-connected financier and convicted child sex offender, had been briefed hours before. “Finally got him to go today …” an email believed to be sent by Peter Mandelson informed Epstein on Monday morning.
The apparent tipoff, revealed in the latest tranche of the Epstein files, not only gave Epstein an inside track on the UK’s political future, but also on large moves that were to ripple through global markets.
Those included further wild swings in the value of the British pound, which had already been volatile in the lead-up to the 6 May general election. It fell 2.2% on the day of the vote, its worst day in over a year, illustrating how concerned traders were about the risk of a hung parliament and political instability.
On the day of Mandelson’s apparent tip-off to Epstein, the pound rose by more than two cents to $1.505, before losing all its gains as Brown’s resignation – and his plan for Labour to hold coalition talks with Clegg’s Liberal Democrats – sent shock waves through Westminster. Sterling would gain back a cent a day later, as the Lib Dems struck a deal with the Tories, handing the keys of No 10 to the Conservative leader, David Cameron.
While there is no evidence that anyone traded off the leaks, it is just one example of the kind of inside information that Mandelson is alleged to have shared with Epstein, according to the latest batch of documents released by the US Department of Justice last week. Those leaks have caused political outrage across the UK, with Keir Starmer asking police to investigate over concerns they contained market sensitive information." [Post edited 4 Feb 15:39]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:49 - Feb 4 with 897 views | jayessess |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:38 - Feb 4 by DJR |
This is very shocking too.
https://www.theguardian.com/po
"On a brisk Monday evening in May 2010, Gordon Brown stood on the steps of Downing Street and delivered one of the most dramatic announcements of the New Labour era: his resignation as UK prime minister.
The decision came days after a nail-biting general election that left no single party with a clear run at No 10. Brown kept his decision, which followed days of political wrangling, to a tight inner circle. Nick Clegg, who would go on to serve as deputy prime minister of the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition, was formally told of Brown’s resignation only 10 minutes before the announcement.
But across the pond, a man named Jeffrey Epstein, a well-connected financier and convicted child sex offender, had been briefed hours before. “Finally got him to go today …” an email believed to be sent by Peter Mandelson informed Epstein on Monday morning.
The apparent tipoff, revealed in the latest tranche of the Epstein files, not only gave Epstein an inside track on the UK’s political future, but also on large moves that were to ripple through global markets.
Those included further wild swings in the value of the British pound, which had already been volatile in the lead-up to the 6 May general election. It fell 2.2% on the day of the vote, its worst day in over a year, illustrating how concerned traders were about the risk of a hung parliament and political instability.
On the day of Mandelson’s apparent tip-off to Epstein, the pound rose by more than two cents to $1.505, before losing all its gains as Brown’s resignation – and his plan for Labour to hold coalition talks with Clegg’s Liberal Democrats – sent shock waves through Westminster. Sterling would gain back a cent a day later, as the Lib Dems struck a deal with the Tories, handing the keys of No 10 to the Conservative leader, David Cameron.
While there is no evidence that anyone traded off the leaks, it is just one example of the kind of inside information that Mandelson is alleged to have shared with Epstein, according to the latest batch of documents released by the US Department of Justice last week. Those leaks have caused political outrage across the UK, with Keir Starmer asking police to investigate over concerns they contained market sensitive information." [Post edited 4 Feb 15:39]
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The Labour Right basically regard anyone from Gordon Brown leftward to be basically a Trot and therefore fair game for shenanigans. Hence all the collective shrieking about the possibility Andy Burnham, a fairly moderate centre left politician, coming back to Westminster. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:12 - Feb 4 with 829 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:06 - Feb 4 by GlasgowBlue |
I can't believe that our security services weren't aware of most of what has been released in the Epstein files and didn't brief the PM. |
I can. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Have you forgotten Jimmy Savile and his relationship with numerous Prime Ministers, top people at the BBC, the future King of England, the Pope and his ability to speak openly in the parliament of a certain foreign, but allied, state?
Those who forget the events of the past are the ones most likely to repeat them. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:17 - Feb 4 with 816 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:40 - Feb 4 by WeWereZombies |
But this isn't the same experiment with the same materials under the same conditions expecting different results. |
....apart from it pretty much is. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:28 - Feb 4 with 780 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:19 - Feb 4 by jasondozzell |
Precisely. Well mapped out!
And the tragedy is that the 'rest is politics' centrist types were totally oblivious to all this because they fell for the corrupt press feeding them stories about Corbyn being a deranged country hating spy etc etc.
They liked the idea of 'forensic Keir' because it was how they saw themselves - the professional managerial class navel gazing as usual.
There was nothing behind this government other than a wrecking job on the Labour left.
Will be interesting to see how people try and defend it all now! [Post edited 4 Feb 15:20]
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As secretary of my local Labour party, I first had an inkling of what was going on in 2017, when someone in the local party talked about discussions he had had with others elsewhere who had a plan to topple Corbyn. Not long after he resigned from the party with a letter that received national coverage and went on to a prominent position in an anti-Corbyn organisation that acted very dubiously when it came to publicising information but at least was out in the open.
I also became aware of other goings on at the time, and became more and more aware of the extent of what was going on as time progressed. But I am not sure even I was aware of the role of Labour Together and McSweeney until after Starmer was elected leader, not least because of its non-existent public profile.
But not long after Starmer was elected, Margaret Hodge did say that she wondered if Starmer had lied to win the leadership, on the basis of a conversation she had had with someone close to his campaign.
But as you say, the vast majority had no idea what was going on. [Post edited 4 Feb 16:36]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:36 - Feb 4 with 757 views | Pinewoodblue |
Wonder when we will find out who Epstein shared the information, he received from Mandelson, with.
Wonder if that list will include Donald Trump.. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:48 - Feb 4 with 718 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:19 - Feb 4 by jasondozzell |
Precisely. Well mapped out!
And the tragedy is that the 'rest is politics' centrist types were totally oblivious to all this because they fell for the corrupt press feeding them stories about Corbyn being a deranged country hating spy etc etc.
They liked the idea of 'forensic Keir' because it was how they saw themselves - the professional managerial class navel gazing as usual.
There was nothing behind this government other than a wrecking job on the Labour left.
Will be interesting to see how people try and defend it all now! [Post edited 4 Feb 15:20]
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Speaking as a centrist dad / rest is politics / James O'Brian type, I'm butt hurt!
I doubt my scummy comrades are all 'professional managerial class navel gazing' bods, but more pragmatists from all walks of live who'd have enough of both losing with Jez and some of his apparent priorities.
Your man had a fair run at it (which i voted for) but couldn't win even against the seriously weakened Tory party. Its called democracy - Jez's version of Labour couldn't persuade enough people to vote for it - Starmer's could. And don't say that's because of the vile media attacks poor old Jez faced - Starmer has had exactly the same from the get go.
This Mandleson stuff is terrible, no doubt and I think Starmer should probably go now, but lets not rewrite history. [Post edited 4 Feb 16:48]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:51 - Feb 4 with 703 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:17 - Feb 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
....apart from it pretty much is. |
I am not going to pretend to understand too much of what Einstein wrote but I think I have got the gist of his quip a little clearer than you, in that you don't really appreciate the differences between Blair coming to power as a great relief to all who wanted rid of the Major government due to the remaining links with Thatcher and, as much as anything, the unexpected levels of sleaze. Whereas Starmer's landslide was due more to the Conservatives revolving door policy on leader selection and memory of a chaotic response to the pandemic. As far as the sleaze goes, well no one expected anything else of Johnson. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:54 - Feb 4 with 701 views | wrightsrightglove |
Fingers crossed! I’ve never been more despondent with the state of UK politics than I currently am. I so hoped that Labour would be a genuinely progresssive left leaning party once they got in but it’s gone completely the opposite way which is beyond disappointing. Rather than offering an alternative to all the dog-whistle politics of the last however many years, they’ve leaned into the Reform b*llocks despite knowing no reform voter is ever going to vote for them. Can’t see anything changing anytime soon so looks like I’ll be backing Zack at the next election | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 17:06 - Feb 4 with 634 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:48 - Feb 4 by giant_stow |
Speaking as a centrist dad / rest is politics / James O'Brian type, I'm butt hurt!
I doubt my scummy comrades are all 'professional managerial class navel gazing' bods, but more pragmatists from all walks of live who'd have enough of both losing with Jez and some of his apparent priorities.
Your man had a fair run at it (which i voted for) but couldn't win even against the seriously weakened Tory party. Its called democracy - Jez's version of Labour couldn't persuade enough people to vote for it - Starmer's could. And don't say that's because of the vile media attacks poor old Jez faced - Starmer has had exactly the same from the get go.
This Mandleson stuff is terrible, no doubt and I think Starmer should probably go now, but lets not rewrite history. [Post edited 4 Feb 16:48]
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Haha. Good on you for being a sport about it.
But don't agree it's rewriting history - that was simply the media trying to get everyone to pretend Starmer project was 1997 again.
And quite funny to talk about democracy. There's not much democratic about an industrial wrecking campaign from within the same party to prevent Corbyn winning in 2017, nor is there in the purging of the left, sewing up of the Labour MP selection process and imposing candidates on local parties, or lying to win the leadership. Remember Starmer's pledges?
Centrists are going to have to own it I'm afraid. This is on them. Now we get Wes then a Reform majority gov.
Emily Maitlis, Ian Dunt, The Rest is Politics, James O'Brien, Matt Forde, Margaret Hodge, Change UK, Rory Stewart, 'a kinder, gentler politics', Alan Johnson,... Your boy took a hell of a beating! [Post edited 4 Feb 17:07]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 17:10 - Feb 4 with 612 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:48 - Feb 4 by giant_stow |
Speaking as a centrist dad / rest is politics / James O'Brian type, I'm butt hurt!
I doubt my scummy comrades are all 'professional managerial class navel gazing' bods, but more pragmatists from all walks of live who'd have enough of both losing with Jez and some of his apparent priorities.
Your man had a fair run at it (which i voted for) but couldn't win even against the seriously weakened Tory party. Its called democracy - Jez's version of Labour couldn't persuade enough people to vote for it - Starmer's could. And don't say that's because of the vile media attacks poor old Jez faced - Starmer has had exactly the same from the get go.
This Mandleson stuff is terrible, no doubt and I think Starmer should probably go now, but lets not rewrite history. [Post edited 4 Feb 16:48]
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A fair run when the entire press and virtually all his own Parliamentary party were against him? 
Anyway, the issue isn't Corbyn from my point of view, it is the underhand and often hidden way the right seized control of party which resulted in my leaving the party after nearly 40 years a member.
And I could see well before the election that the ruthlessness, vacuousness in terms of policy and lack of integrity wasn't a recipe for success.
Indeed, I warned on here before the election, but it largely fell on deaf ears. [Post edited 4 Feb 17:11]
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