| Starmer is a dead man walking 12:37 - Feb 4 with 17265 views | hype313 |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:16 - Feb 4 with 1330 views | giant_stow |
Might suit everyone if he resigned now. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:17 - Feb 4 with 1331 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:02 - Feb 4 by homer_123 |
Hope this doesn't lead to a GE.......[shudder] |
The problem with calling an election is that Labour policy seems to be concentrated on why people shouldn’t support Reform.. it should be about why we should vote Labour.
They seem to be getting everything wrong these days. It shouldn’t be about Reform it should be about getting traditional Labour supporters to vote. May elections will be a disaster for Labour and it won’t be because people vote Reform.it will be due to not getting the Labour voters to vote. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:17 - Feb 4 with 1333 views | Bobbychase |
In the wider picture, Labour are actually being the grown-ups we needed as a country after Boris/Truss, but even someone as monochrome as Starmer can't seem to avoid scandal. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:18 - Feb 4 with 1317 views | hype313 |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:11 - Feb 4 by ElderGrizzly |
This was the full quote at PMQs. Not quite what Pippa is saying
“ To learn that there was a cabinet minister leaking sensitive information at the height of the response to the 2008 crash is beyond infuriating, and I am as angry as the public and any member of this House – Mandelson betrayed our country, our parliament and my party.
He lied repeatedly to my team when asked about his relationship with Epstein before and during his tenure as ambassador. I regret appointing him.
If I knew then what I know now, he would never have been anywhere near government.” |
But he knew Mandleson was still friends with Epstein post conviction, that's the rub. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:18 - Feb 4 with 1318 views | Blueschev |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:14 - Feb 4 by itfcjoe |
If it goes to the members it will be someone like Milliband; a bit like when the Tories kept picking the wrong PM because the members don't get the country |
The trouble is, the "sensible" wing of the Labour Party are the most damaged by this, yet they hold the levers of power within the party. There's also no obvious replacement for Starmer. For want of a better word, I think Labour are Fcuked. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:20 - Feb 4 with 1302 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:18 - Feb 4 by hype313 |
But he knew Mandleson was still friends with Epstein post conviction, that's the rub. |
Depends how deep this goes I guess:
“He lied repeatedly to my team when asked about his relationship with Epstein before and during his tenure as ambassador. I regret appointing him.”
“ What was not known was the depth, the sheer depth and the extent of the relationship. He lied about that to everyone for years, and new information was published in September showing the relationship was materially different from what we’d been led to believe. When the new information came to light, I sacked him …
So I can be totally open with the house, I should also disclose that the Metropolitan police have been in touch with my office this morning to raise issues about anything that would prejudice their investigations. We’re in discussion with them about that, and I hope to be able to update the house, but I do think I should make that clear.” [Post edited 4 Feb 13:25]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:22 - Feb 4 with 1270 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:17 - Feb 4 by Pinewoodblue |
The problem with calling an election is that Labour policy seems to be concentrated on why people shouldn’t support Reform.. it should be about why we should vote Labour.
They seem to be getting everything wrong these days. It shouldn’t be about Reform it should be about getting traditional Labour supporters to vote. May elections will be a disaster for Labour and it won’t be because people vote Reform.it will be due to not getting the Labour voters to vote. |
Local election results shouldn’t impact when a GE is though.
It should be late 2028/early 2029 as everyone understands from our system.
Farage is going to whine like hell of course, but then he has questions to answer around Bannon and Epstein himself. So maybe he’ll be a little quieter than normal | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:26 - Feb 4 with 1228 views | EJP |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:14 - Feb 4 by itfcjoe |
If it goes to the members it will be someone like Milliband; a bit like when the Tories kept picking the wrong PM because the members don't get the country |
We'd get to find out 11 years later what Chaos with Miliband would actually be like ... |  | | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:27 - Feb 4 with 1214 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:12 - Feb 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
A lot of you must be relieved that you decided to vote to give the grown ups a go. |
No regrets here, boss. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:32 - Feb 4 with 1184 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 12:53 - Feb 4 by DJR |
I think it boils down to the fact that Stamer has no real political background or instincts, and so is far too reliant on someone like McSweeney, a protege of Mandelson, who was the primary driver of Mandelson's appointment.
And as I mentioned on another thread, Mandelson said of McsSweeney.
"I don't know who and how and when he was invented, but whoever it was ... they will find their place in heaven."
And finally, as I've said about McSweeney a few times on here. "He isn't the Messiah, he's just a very naughty boy."  [Post edited 4 Feb 12:58]
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Prompted by this thread I have gone and watched the exchange between Starmer and Badenoch from an hour or so ago ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/liv ) and the picture of an inept Starmer that some have painted doesn't emerge for me, although Badenoch has to be congratulated for a focused, analytical and determined approach. In a way Starmer having a legal background rather than being part of a political clan helps, his insistence that an investigation by the, non party and civil service, Cabinet Office be undertaken is the best way forward and I think he should stay at least until that is concluded. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:36 - Feb 4 with 1144 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:02 - Feb 4 by homer_123 |
Hope this doesn't lead to a GE.......[shudder] |
Only losing a vote of confidence can bring the government down and they have a massive majority. It would just be a change of leader/PM. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:36 - Feb 4 with 1154 views | The_Major |
Of course, even if Mandelson didn't know about the trafficking etc (Of course he flipping did), the business about passing government discussions to Epstein is eye spinning. The fact that there seems to be more than a hint of evidence that Epstein was in the pay of the Russians turns it into Profumo on steroids.
To be fair to Starmer, he probably didn't know that bit, but he did know that the friendship continued after the first conviction, and yet still gave Mandelson the gig.
A staggering lack of judgement and one of the dumbest political decisions I've ever seen.
He's had it. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:36 - Feb 4 with 1143 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:27 - Feb 4 by giant_stow |
No regrets here, boss. |
You know that thing about madness and repeatedly doing the same thing! |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:39 - Feb 4 with 1123 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:18 - Feb 4 by hype313 |
But he knew Mandleson was still friends with Epstein post conviction, that's the rub. |
So did everyone, it was public knowledge. There was several articles about it. I think it will only be damaging if Starmer knew about the extent of the relationship and what is coming out now, and the what he has said today about rigorous vetting isn't true.
Otherwise i'm not sure there is anything new here, Mandelson was always a poorly judged appointment, this just highlights it further. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:40 - Feb 4 with 1115 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:36 - Feb 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You know that thing about madness and repeatedly doing the same thing! |
But this isn't the same experiment with the same materials under the same conditions expecting different results. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:43 - Feb 4 with 1097 views | thebooks |
Good riddance and hopefully the end of New Labour in all its guises as well.
Gorton and Denton should be the coup de grâce — Manchester’s Labour variant is probably the single strongest aspect of Labour in the last decade. Losing there is absolutely disastrous for it.
While Starmer is particularly dismal, it’s problems won’t go away if it just replaces him with a Wes Streeting. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:46 - Feb 4 with 1067 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:36 - Feb 4 by The_Major |
Of course, even if Mandelson didn't know about the trafficking etc (Of course he flipping did), the business about passing government discussions to Epstein is eye spinning. The fact that there seems to be more than a hint of evidence that Epstein was in the pay of the Russians turns it into Profumo on steroids.
To be fair to Starmer, he probably didn't know that bit, but he did know that the friendship continued after the first conviction, and yet still gave Mandelson the gig.
A staggering lack of judgement and one of the dumbest political decisions I've ever seen.
He's had it. |
He accepted the recommendation of his advisors, it was a risky appointment and one that shouldn’t have been made. An error of judgement by Starmer. To say this has only happened because Mandy lied to his advisors is pathetic. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:48 - Feb 4 with 1035 views | jayessess |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:18 - Feb 4 by Blueschev |
The trouble is, the "sensible" wing of the Labour Party are the most damaged by this, yet they hold the levers of power within the party. There's also no obvious replacement for Starmer. For want of a better word, I think Labour are Fcuked. |
Think it's conventional wisdom that parties shouldn't indulge their members, but right now it's probably what Labour need - more of their 2024 vote has fled to liberal and left parties than it has to conservative ones. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:49 - Feb 4 with 1036 views | Ryorry |
Was thinking exactly the same as your header after listening to BBC World At One just now. Last nail in his coffin.
Don't know how accurate it was, but Kemi's comment that "what KS's team didn't find out was widely available on Google" was quite a hammer blow. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:56 - Feb 4 with 991 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:49 - Feb 4 by Ryorry |
Was thinking exactly the same as your header after listening to BBC World At One just now. Last nail in his coffin.
Don't know how accurate it was, but Kemi's comment that "what KS's team didn't find out was widely available on Google" was quite a hammer blow. |
Coincidentally, the co-founder of Google, Sergey Brin, is in the Epstein files. The BBC described thus:
'Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google and one of the world's richest men, visited Epstein's private island and made plans to dine at Epstein's home in New York City, according to the documents released on Friday.
He also corresponded with Ghislaine Maxwell, who wrote to Brin in April 2003: "Dinners at Jeffrey's are always happily casual and relaxed", and, "Look forward to seeing you".
In another email, Maxwell invited Brin to join her at a film screening in New York.
Response: The BBC has reached out to Google for comment. There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing in the emails.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:57 - Feb 4 with 982 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:48 - Feb 4 by jayessess |
Think it's conventional wisdom that parties shouldn't indulge their members, but right now it's probably what Labour need - more of their 2024 vote has fled to liberal and left parties than it has to conservative ones. |
Miliband would be fine. Winning round Reform & Tory voters is not the current priority - its steadying things and getting core voters back on side (as you say). | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:07 - Feb 4 with 902 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:57 - Feb 4 by giant_stow |
Miliband would be fine. Winning round Reform & Tory voters is not the current priority - its steadying things and getting core voters back on side (as you say). |
Ed or David ? | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:08 - Feb 4 with 892 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:36 - Feb 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Only losing a vote of confidence can bring the government down and they have a massive majority. It would just be a change of leader/PM. |
The words "Christmas" "voting" and "Turkeys" spring to mind. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:13 - Feb 4 with 849 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:07 - Feb 4 by WeWereZombies |
Ed or David ? |
fair question, but I meant Ed! | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:18 - Feb 4 with 799 views | darkhorse28 |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 12:40 - Feb 4 by gtsb1966 |
Good. Dreadful prime minister and the blocking of Burnham was the final straw for me even before this. |
Abandoning a role as Mayor for careerist ambition, is hardly the sort of person with leadership qualities .., he was desperate to promote devolved power.
It’s starting to look like everyone is humblest for self interest .., Starmer put party and integrity FIRST., it used to be what Labour stood for.
Values.., finish the job and then go and be an MP. He also couldn’t wait to get away from Westminster when it suited him! |  | | |
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