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Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:11 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE
They must know that in destroying the last chance the country had in 2019 they are partly culpable.
Oh come on. Let's have a bit of honesty. Corbyn was a disaster. The country just didn't want him. You might be a fan but why is it so hard for you lot to accept that the country did not want him? You all act like people are too stupid to see he was the answer. He wasn't the answer.
He might not have been but the vast majority of and general direction of his policies were! You were distracted by a sideshow.
[Post edited 5 Feb 16:37]
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:16 - Feb 5 by lowhouseblue
or perhaps he was just self-smearing.
I suppose the irony is that when it came to Russian self-smearing (to use your term) Corbyn was an amateur compared to the man who beat him, Johnson.
As Peter Oborne said.
"Let’s imagine that Corbyn had somehow won the last election. That he had then filled up Labour Party coffers with Russian money; that his party chairman had an office in Moscow to advise oligarchs; that Corbyn personally had repeatedly visited a Russian oligarch whose father had been a KGB agent and close friend of Putin, and that he had been reported to have ignored security service objections to secure this friend a peerage, and funnelled government money towards his paper.
For day after day there would have been front-page denunciations of Corbyn. He couldn’t have survived. In my view rightly so. Yet Johnson is the one who’s done all of these things. But Corbyn is the one who’s supposed to be pro-Putin."
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:38 - Feb 5 with 1124 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:11 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE
They must know that in destroying the last chance the country had in 2019 they are partly culpable.
Oh come on. Let's have a bit of honesty. Corbyn was a disaster. The country just didn't want him. You might be a fan but why is it so hard for you lot to accept that the country did not want him? You all act like people are too stupid to see he was the answer. He wasn't the answer.
If we had one last chance in 2019 to save the country from a populist right wing government then maybe jasondozell and his ilk could have managed to produce a more likely candidate to achieve it than Jeremy Corbyn.
I was fairly positively disposed towards Corbyn, but find it hard to forgive him his support for Brexit. It's screwed the country and was always going to make the economic and societal changes that he presumably wants to see impossible.
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:46 - Feb 5 with 1074 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:38 - Feb 5 by soupytwist
If we had one last chance in 2019 to save the country from a populist right wing government then maybe jasondozell and his ilk could have managed to produce a more likely candidate to achieve it than Jeremy Corbyn.
I was fairly positively disposed towards Corbyn, but find it hard to forgive him his support for Brexit. It's screwed the country and was always going to make the economic and societal changes that he presumably wants to see impossible.
It's deja vu all over again.
We had a debate about Brexit and Corbyn a few days, so I won't go over that ground again.
Indeed, when it comes to Corbyn on here it always seems to be a case of rinse/repeat.
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:59 - Feb 5 with 1028 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:46 - Feb 5 by DJR
It's deja vu all over again.
We had a debate about Brexit and Corbyn a few days, so I won't go over that ground again.
Indeed, when it comes to Corbyn on here it always seems to be a case of rinse/repeat.
I know, it's really not a positive use of time is it? 😏
I could get past many of the other things, unfortunately Brexit was the straw that broke the camel's back. Perhaps that just confirms my complete centrist dadness. But in my defence I've always found Rory Stewart a bit of knob.
I thought at the time that making Mandelson US ambassador was a strange risk to take, just because it seemed likely given past experience some kind of scandal would emerge. And it wasn't like he was the only person who could conceivably do the job.
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 16:11 - Feb 5 with 981 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:59 - Feb 5 by soupytwist
I know, it's really not a positive use of time is it? 😏
I could get past many of the other things, unfortunately Brexit was the straw that broke the camel's back. Perhaps that just confirms my complete centrist dadness. But in my defence I've always found Rory Stewart a bit of knob.
I thought at the time that making Mandelson US ambassador was a strange risk to take, just because it seemed likely given past experience some kind of scandal would emerge. And it wasn't like he was the only person who could conceivably do the job.
Re Rory Stewart being a bit of a knob, I’d say is akin to calling green and yellow attire as being a bit off putting.
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:38 - Feb 5 by soupytwist
If we had one last chance in 2019 to save the country from a populist right wing government then maybe jasondozell and his ilk could have managed to produce a more likely candidate to achieve it than Jeremy Corbyn.
I was fairly positively disposed towards Corbyn, but find it hard to forgive him his support for Brexit. It's screwed the country and was always going to make the economic and societal changes that he presumably wants to see impossible.
The liberal middle class unable to get over Brexit.
Why did we fail to achieve a soft Brexit that would have been less damaging? Look up the People's vote campaign. The house should have voted for one of May's proposals but the Labour right and Starmer saw their opportunity. Who led it and who benefited? A certain P Mandelson might have been a little bit involved. It was used to destroy Corbyn. It folded as soon as that was achieved. The 'boll#£ to Brexit' brigade were had and some of them don't even realise still! Too many zone 2 dinner parties.
Was never about Corbyn as an individual. It was about principles and policies. The country desperately needed moderate democratic socialism. There was a strong anti austerity movement and Corbyn built on that energy. It was cynically wrecked by his own party and the media.
The libs don't want to hear it because it paints them in a very bad light.
I always thought 2019 was the last chance.
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:00]
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 17:56 - Feb 5 with 891 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:35 - Feb 5 by DJR
I suppose the irony is that when it came to Russian self-smearing (to use your term) Corbyn was an amateur compared to the man who beat him, Johnson.
As Peter Oborne said.
"Let’s imagine that Corbyn had somehow won the last election. That he had then filled up Labour Party coffers with Russian money; that his party chairman had an office in Moscow to advise oligarchs; that Corbyn personally had repeatedly visited a Russian oligarch whose father had been a KGB agent and close friend of Putin, and that he had been reported to have ignored security service objections to secure this friend a peerage, and funnelled government money towards his paper.
For day after day there would have been front-page denunciations of Corbyn. He couldn’t have survived. In my view rightly so. Yet Johnson is the one who’s done all of these things. But Corbyn is the one who’s supposed to be pro-Putin."
Would this be the same Peter Oborne who said of Corbyn in 2019:
"Corbyn has behaved with grotesquely bad judgment in other areas. Above all, he has spent his entire political life supporting terrorist groups and governments hostile to the UK and our allies".
"This week, with a heavy heart, I changed my mind. I’m now convinced that there is something detestable about Corbyn’s politics which make it impossible to defend him any more".
"Among several examples, the first concerned Christine Shawcroft, Labour’s head of discipline who was forced to resign after it emerged that she had defended a Labour councillor accused of sharing an article on Facebook which claimed the Holocaust was a ‘hoax’. This proves that the poison of anti-Semitism has spread into the heart of the Corbyn Labour Party."
"We also learnt that Corbyn himself has been a member of five online groups which have propagated anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, such as that the number of deaths at Auschwitz has been exaggerated and that Israelis have harvested the organs of Arab children. Also, they have posted links to the loathsome views of white supremacists, including the leader of the Ku Klux Klan".
"It was an image of which the Nazis would have been proud.Yet Corbyn disingenuously defended it on the grounds of free speech! And this from a man who claims he wants to promote ‘a kinder, gentler politics’.
"Corbyn’s dreadful lack of judgment over anti-Semitism — and his weaselly attempt at an apology this week — shows that he is unworthy to be an MP, let alone lead a great political party".
FREE IRAN FROM THE MULLAHS - FREE PALESTINE FROM HAMAS - FREE LEBANON FROM HEZBOLLAH
I voted for and supported Corbyn, but with the best will in the world he lost. So I accepted Starmer as he could win. Whether he's fecked up or not is neither here nor there, we had a chance of getting the Tories out so we took it. Corbyn demonstrably wasn't able to do that, for whatever reasons.
Who "destroyed the last chance the country had in 2019"? We voted for Corbyn, it didn't work. He didn't appeal enough to supporters of other parties.
Constantly attacking people who like 'News Agents', 'Rest is Politics' 'Rory Stewart and James O'Brien, and claiming some moral victory/point scoring on the internet doesn't achieve anything.
Are you suggesting Labour should've stuck with Corbyn even though he lost... and that he would now either be in power and able to stop Reform, or would be stopping Reform as the opposition?!
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:09 - Feb 5 with 861 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 17:56 - Feb 5 by jasondozzell
The liberal middle class unable to get over Brexit.
Why did we fail to achieve a soft Brexit that would have been less damaging? Look up the People's vote campaign. The house should have voted for one of May's proposals but the Labour right and Starmer saw their opportunity. Who led it and who benefited? A certain P Mandelson might have been a little bit involved. It was used to destroy Corbyn. It folded as soon as that was achieved. The 'boll#£ to Brexit' brigade were had and some of them don't even realise still! Too many zone 2 dinner parties.
Was never about Corbyn as an individual. It was about principles and policies. The country desperately needed moderate democratic socialism. There was a strong anti austerity movement and Corbyn built on that energy. It was cynically wrecked by his own party and the media.
The libs don't want to hear it because it paints them in a very bad light.
I always thought 2019 was the last chance.
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:00]
You do realise that plenty on the left are still massively pissed over Brexit, right? And rightly so as it has badly impacted some of the most disadvantaged areas of the UK, as it was always likely to do. But I imagine the people bothered by that don't treat politics primarily as a debate about ideological purity.
Starmer is a dead man walking on 14:26 - Feb 5 by Dubtractor
I've got a lot of time for Dozzers, but his 'I was right all along, and the rest of you are dumb f#cks' act makes him come across as a bit of a bellend, and i say that despite in some parts agreeing with him.
And it jars with his pleas for unity and unrelenting positivity on the football front - it's quite hard to reconcile it as being the same poster.
Thanks Dub. That is fair enough - I know I get a bit carried away and hectoring in tone. It's just because the anger from what happened 2017 onwards is still so strong.
I'm not saying I know everything. Far far from it! But what happened was a disgrace. And it was clear from 2021 at least what the Starmer project was. And for it to be cheered on the centrist dad types even more infuriating. It will no doubt carry on with people saying that Rayner or Burnham are the answer...😬 The trouble is that people are so ill informed. They just swallow what they are given.
Corbyn was treated like he was because he was a genuine threat to the system. He could have been a different character and it would have been the same We need a new politics. But too many people have vested interest in keeping things as they are.
Real change is scary. It might mean accepting that you lose something or give something up. But that is the only chance we have.
For about two years now I've been of the opinion that we'll have to get through the inevitable Reform gov and let that play out as a disaster in order to get have any hope of anything better.
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:25]
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:22 - Feb 5 with 837 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:09 - Feb 5 by Herbivore
You do realise that plenty on the left are still massively pissed over Brexit, right? And rightly so as it has badly impacted some of the most disadvantaged areas of the UK, as it was always likely to do. But I imagine the people bothered by that don't treat politics primarily as a debate about ideological purity.
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:09]
I voted remain. But it's a decade ago
If the 'bollo* to Brexit' brigade cared about the state of the country as much as they did about a political act that offended their idea of themselves as cosmopolitan (which in the the end was the driving force behind much of the outrage) then we might have a better future.
The pragmatic approach of accepting the vote but securing the best deal was the very opposite of ideological purity. Can't you see the irony?
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:24]
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:23 - Feb 5 with 832 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:07 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue
Would this be the same Peter Oborne who said of Corbyn in 2019:
"Corbyn has behaved with grotesquely bad judgment in other areas. Above all, he has spent his entire political life supporting terrorist groups and governments hostile to the UK and our allies".
"This week, with a heavy heart, I changed my mind. I’m now convinced that there is something detestable about Corbyn’s politics which make it impossible to defend him any more".
"Among several examples, the first concerned Christine Shawcroft, Labour’s head of discipline who was forced to resign after it emerged that she had defended a Labour councillor accused of sharing an article on Facebook which claimed the Holocaust was a ‘hoax’. This proves that the poison of anti-Semitism has spread into the heart of the Corbyn Labour Party."
"We also learnt that Corbyn himself has been a member of five online groups which have propagated anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, such as that the number of deaths at Auschwitz has been exaggerated and that Israelis have harvested the organs of Arab children. Also, they have posted links to the loathsome views of white supremacists, including the leader of the Ku Klux Klan".
"It was an image of which the Nazis would have been proud.Yet Corbyn disingenuously defended it on the grounds of free speech! And this from a man who claims he wants to promote ‘a kinder, gentler politics’.
"Corbyn’s dreadful lack of judgment over anti-Semitism — and his weaselly attempt at an apology this week — shows that he is unworthy to be an MP, let alone lead a great political party".
Might be worth looking up why he changed his position on that...
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:35 - Feb 5 with 815 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:22 - Feb 5 by jasondozzell
I voted remain. But it's a decade ago
If the 'bollo* to Brexit' brigade cared about the state of the country as much as they did about a political act that offended their idea of themselves as cosmopolitan (which in the the end was the driving force behind much of the outrage) then we might have a better future.
The pragmatic approach of accepting the vote but securing the best deal was the very opposite of ideological purity. Can't you see the irony?
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:24]
There was no good deal available, May's red lines ruled out the possibility of a Brexit that minimised damage. The vote may have been a decade ago, Brexit itself 6 years, but the impact is still being felt by everyone other than the top 1%. And I think your characterisation of why people were against Brexit is pretty puerile stuff. Be better.
Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:35 - Feb 5 by Herbivore
There was no good deal available, May's red lines ruled out the possibility of a Brexit that minimised damage. The vote may have been a decade ago, Brexit itself 6 years, but the impact is still being felt by everyone other than the top 1%. And I think your characterisation of why people were against Brexit is pretty puerile stuff. Be better.
People voted for it. It had to be done. How did you propose to tell those people who voted for Brexit they were being overruled?
May's deal was miles better than the hard Brexit Starmer and Mandelson crashed us into.
Brexit and Trump - neither of them were the cause, they were the symptom.
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 19:09 - Feb 5 with 732 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:19 - Feb 5 by jasondozzell
Thanks Dub. That is fair enough - I know I get a bit carried away and hectoring in tone. It's just because the anger from what happened 2017 onwards is still so strong.
I'm not saying I know everything. Far far from it! But what happened was a disgrace. And it was clear from 2021 at least what the Starmer project was. And for it to be cheered on the centrist dad types even more infuriating. It will no doubt carry on with people saying that Rayner or Burnham are the answer...😬 The trouble is that people are so ill informed. They just swallow what they are given.
Corbyn was treated like he was because he was a genuine threat to the system. He could have been a different character and it would have been the same We need a new politics. But too many people have vested interest in keeping things as they are.
Real change is scary. It might mean accepting that you lose something or give something up. But that is the only chance we have.
For about two years now I've been of the opinion that we'll have to get through the inevitable Reform gov and let that play out as a disaster in order to get have any hope of anything better.
[Post edited 5 Feb 18:25]
Be angry, the centrist mum's and dad's hold the prison keys and jangle them in our faces when they continue to vote for more of the same. Def info!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Not true. They are not wanting to "abolish the private rental sector" and it's not true that they don't have any plans or that anyone would be made homeless.
It’s about shrinking the private sector’s dominance over housing and expanding socially owned housing.
A downarrowing of the facts but no comment Ryorry?
If you're going to assert something that's not true, then rather than just downarrowing and running away you ought to post some counter evidence.
Starmer is a dead man walking on 10:29 - Feb 5 by Ryorry
“I think he lacked common sense and attention to detail, as well as being lazy”
I think he was corrupt, desperate to hang on to power by trying to unite his party (which meant kowtowing to Rees-Smug & the ERG) + lining his own pockets and theirs.
I don’t doubt that he was also lazy, lacked common sense and attention to detail.
How was he corrupt?
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Starmer is a dead man walking on 00:51 - Feb 6 with 415 views
Starmer is a dead man walking on 15:11 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue
I think she would win the members vote of it was a choice between her and Streeting. Same with the Unions. But Streeting would win the PLP vote which is usually the best barometer of someone's suitability.
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