| It's a start but... on 08:25 - Mar 5 with 1192 views | Zx1988 |
It feels as if it's setting even genuine asylum seekers up to fail.
Give them £49.18 a week to look after, clothe, and feed themselves (or £9.95 a week if you're in full-board accommodation), and then tell them that they'll be kicked out if they try and earn a single penny more. |  |
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| It's a start but... on 08:30 - Mar 5 with 1175 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
This sounds like an obvious solution, but anybody with any experience of community work or working with rough sleepers will tell you that taking away means of support and accommodation results in many more problems for the local community and much more expense for the various branches of the State: Policing, NHS, and local Councils.
As the spokesperson for the Refugee Council says, speeding up the process is the only way forward. | | | |
| It's a start but... on 08:38 - Mar 5 with 1118 views | StokieBlue |
Surely it should also depend what the offence is?
Say someone is stealing some bread because they can't afford food because the provisions given to them are so small, does that meet your threshold for booting them out of the country?
Also not great to see how we've treated Afghanis. First we don't help to relocate all those who worked as translators and suchlike during the war and now we won't even let them come and study in this country.
"About 95% of Afghans who arrived in the UK on a study visa then applied for asylum since 2021" [1].
This isn't really surprising, the Taliban aren't well known for their tolerance of education and after achieving a degree in this country why are Labour so keen not to have them stay and contribute to the country?
SB
[1]. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art |  | | |
| It's a start but... on 08:41 - Mar 5 with 1095 views | tcblue |
Why are they wasting time with this rather than doing the only thing which genuinely would help (making the asylum claim process faster)?
Successive governments don't want to do that, and I'm at a loss to understand why | | | |
| It's a start but... on 08:50 - Mar 5 with 1039 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| It's a start but... on 08:41 - Mar 5 by tcblue |
Why are they wasting time with this rather than doing the only thing which genuinely would help (making the asylum claim process faster)?
Successive governments don't want to do that, and I'm at a loss to understand why |
It's never been about solving it. For decades. It's about using it as a political football in that ridiculously invisible strip where they try and look tough and off putting but also kind and caring. Otherwise they get called right wing monsters or wishy washy lefties by the various media and opposition depending on minute changes in stance.
Ultimately doomed to obvious failure by all involved and as you say they just need to grasp the nettle, but it's not like any of them actually care about what's best, just what might just about look okay to enough of the right groups of people. |  | | |
| It's a start but... on 09:00 - Mar 5 with 981 views | bluelagos |
If you wanted to deport them, and they came from Afghamistan, Iran or any other war zone where there are no flights, how would you do that? |  |
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| It's a start but... on 09:05 - Mar 5 with 957 views | Guthrum |
| It's a start but... on 08:50 - Mar 5 by Axeldalai_lama |
It's never been about solving it. For decades. It's about using it as a political football in that ridiculously invisible strip where they try and look tough and off putting but also kind and caring. Otherwise they get called right wing monsters or wishy washy lefties by the various media and opposition depending on minute changes in stance.
Ultimately doomed to obvious failure by all involved and as you say they just need to grasp the nettle, but it's not like any of them actually care about what's best, just what might just about look okay to enough of the right groups of people. |
There's also the twin awkward problems: Firstly the conflation of legal and illegal migration. The former contributing many times the incomer rate of the latter. But all migrants are portrayed as if they came over on rubber boats or in the backs of lorries.
Secondly, the fact that vital sectors of the country - the NHS, care providers, agriculture - require immigrants to fill the workforce. Plus academic institutions need the fees of international students to remain viable. No amount of rhetoric about retraining or getting the unemployed/sick/disabled into work (again, without genuine action) changes that reality.
On top of those is the much-parroted lie that immigrants come to the UK in order to get benefits. No, they want to find jobs and a decent standard of living in a stable environment. They can't just crawl across the beach and start claiming, anyway - no NI number, address or legal status to do so, quite apart from the draconian rules which make it hard enough even if you were born and lived all your life here. |  |
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| It's a start but... on 09:06 - Mar 5 with 955 views | tcblue |
| It's a start but... on 09:00 - Mar 5 by bluelagos |
If you wanted to deport them, and they came from Afghamistan, Iran or any other war zone where there are no flights, how would you do that? |
If they're not classed on the safe country list, the answer is: you don't (can't). Flight availablity becomes irrelevant | | | |
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| It's a start but... on 09:09 - Mar 5 with 937 views | Benters |
It an Uppie from me 👍 |  |
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| It's a start but... on 09:21 - Mar 5 with 889 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| It's a start but... on 09:00 - Mar 5 by bluelagos |
If you wanted to deport them, and they came from Afghamistan, Iran or any other war zone where there are no flights, how would you do that? |
Small boats? Refrigerated lorries?
Maybe that wouldn't be tough enough.
Dinghies with a minimum of five punctures and Deep Freeze Lorries.
Let's see Reform try and out-tough that! | | | |
| It's a start but... on 09:24 - Mar 5 with 885 views | WeWereZombies |
[sigh] I thought this was going to be a thread about the Royal Family but it turns out to be about foreigners.
Oh, hang on a second... |  |
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| It's a start but... on 09:37 - Mar 5 with 824 views | Jon_456 |
| It's a start but... on 09:05 - Mar 5 by Guthrum |
There's also the twin awkward problems: Firstly the conflation of legal and illegal migration. The former contributing many times the incomer rate of the latter. But all migrants are portrayed as if they came over on rubber boats or in the backs of lorries.
Secondly, the fact that vital sectors of the country - the NHS, care providers, agriculture - require immigrants to fill the workforce. Plus academic institutions need the fees of international students to remain viable. No amount of rhetoric about retraining or getting the unemployed/sick/disabled into work (again, without genuine action) changes that reality.
On top of those is the much-parroted lie that immigrants come to the UK in order to get benefits. No, they want to find jobs and a decent standard of living in a stable environment. They can't just crawl across the beach and start claiming, anyway - no NI number, address or legal status to do so, quite apart from the draconian rules which make it hard enough even if you were born and lived all your life here. |
Your first point is certainly a big part of the problem when it comes to having conversations on this subject.
I think most people I’ve spoken to who lean more to the right dont want total deportation of all immigrants. They want the illegal situation addressed and more control over who we take in in this country, with Australia often being used as an example.
Unfortunately, like most debates about any subject these days, both sides take their argument to the extreme. You’re either a Tommy Robinson supporter and don’t want any foreigners at all or you’re a woke lefty and want to invite the entire world into the country with unlimited benefits. | | | |
| It's a start but... on 09:47 - Mar 5 with 808 views | Guthrum |
| It's a start but... on 09:37 - Mar 5 by Jon_456 |
Your first point is certainly a big part of the problem when it comes to having conversations on this subject.
I think most people I’ve spoken to who lean more to the right dont want total deportation of all immigrants. They want the illegal situation addressed and more control over who we take in in this country, with Australia often being used as an example.
Unfortunately, like most debates about any subject these days, both sides take their argument to the extreme. You’re either a Tommy Robinson supporter and don’t want any foreigners at all or you’re a woke lefty and want to invite the entire world into the country with unlimited benefits. |
A fair few people on the left I've spoken to are in favour of reasonable limits on migration.
The problem is that the argument is driven by extremists (or people taking extreme positions in order to gain attention - and funding). That then pushes people of the other opinion further to the exteme on either side. With both deriding the moderates in the middle, making it an unattractive position to hold. A vicious cycle. [Post edited 5 Mar 9:48]
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| It's a start but... on 09:55 - Mar 5 with 753 views | Herbivore |
| It's a start but... on 09:37 - Mar 5 by Jon_456 |
Your first point is certainly a big part of the problem when it comes to having conversations on this subject.
I think most people I’ve spoken to who lean more to the right dont want total deportation of all immigrants. They want the illegal situation addressed and more control over who we take in in this country, with Australia often being used as an example.
Unfortunately, like most debates about any subject these days, both sides take their argument to the extreme. You’re either a Tommy Robinson supporter and don’t want any foreigners at all or you’re a woke lefty and want to invite the entire world into the country with unlimited benefits. |
I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever advocate for us inviting the entire world in and offering them unlimited benefits. |  |
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| It's a start but... on 10:05 - Mar 5 with 707 views | Radlett_blue |
| It's a start but... on 08:41 - Mar 5 by tcblue |
Why are they wasting time with this rather than doing the only thing which genuinely would help (making the asylum claim process faster)?
Successive governments don't want to do that, and I'm at a loss to understand why |
It's not that they don't want to, but even if you throw a fortune at the process of screening interview, substantive interview & then a Home Office decision, a rejected claimant can appeal.
Higher Courts and Reviews:
Upper Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber): If the First-tier Tribunal decision contains a legal mistake, an appeal can be made to the Upper Tribunal.
Judicial Review: If not appealing a specific decision, a Judicial Review can be sought in the Upper Tribunal or Administrative Court to challenge the lawfulness of a decision by the Home Office or the First-tier Tribunal.
Higher Courts: Further appeals can go to the Court of Appeal (or Court of Session in Scotland) and ultimately the Supreme Court, though these require permission and are difficult without legal representation.
Given that UK courts have a huge backlog, good luck with speeding up the process. And if a final decision is that the claimant is not allowed to remain, then our deportation process is also complicated. |  |
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| It's a start but... on 10:38 - Mar 5 with 622 views | MattinLondon |
| It's a start but... on 08:30 - Mar 5 by ArnoldMoorhen |
This sounds like an obvious solution, but anybody with any experience of community work or working with rough sleepers will tell you that taking away means of support and accommodation results in many more problems for the local community and much more expense for the various branches of the State: Policing, NHS, and local Councils.
As the spokesperson for the Refugee Council says, speeding up the process is the only way forward. |
Just imagine if previous governments spent money on unsexy projects like training-up and employing more people to process more asylum cases. Instead of going for the headlines and wasting hundreds of millions on ridiculous ideas like sending them to Rwanda. |  | | |
| It's a start but... on 10:45 - Mar 5 with 603 views | Jon_456 |
| It's a start but... on 09:55 - Mar 5 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever advocate for us inviting the entire world in and offering them unlimited benefits. |
Well yeah, that’s exactly my point. It’s mostly nonsense yet each side seem to put people into one of these two categories which then creates a bigger divide.
I’ve seen a few times where someone has asked ‘what exactly is it about [insert minority] you hate?’ In response to someone simply saying they want immigration issues tackled.
Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a single party that can offer a sensible and logical solution to it. | | | |
| It's a start but... on 13:42 - Mar 5 with 487 views | Herbivore |
| It's a start but... on 10:45 - Mar 5 by Jon_456 |
Well yeah, that’s exactly my point. It’s mostly nonsense yet each side seem to put people into one of these two categories which then creates a bigger divide.
I’ve seen a few times where someone has asked ‘what exactly is it about [insert minority] you hate?’ In response to someone simply saying they want immigration issues tackled.
Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a single party that can offer a sensible and logical solution to it. |
But there are political parties actually calling for repatriation and mass deportations, this isn't a fictional position that people are creating, it's the reality of where our politics are at on immigration. I think this is where the whole "both sides" thing is unhelpful because one of the extremes has now become pretty close to mainstream while the other is a completely fictitious position that nobody actually holds. | |
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| It's a start but... on 14:54 - Mar 5 with 434 views | carlisleaway |
| It's a start but... on 09:00 - Mar 5 by bluelagos |
If you wanted to deport them, and they came from Afghamistan, Iran or any other war zone where there are no flights, how would you do that? |
Send them back on the same boat they arrived on. |  | | |
| It's a start but... on 15:07 - Mar 5 with 410 views | Jon_456 |
| It's a start but... on 13:42 - Mar 5 by Herbivore |
But there are political parties actually calling for repatriation and mass deportations, this isn't a fictional position that people are creating, it's the reality of where our politics are at on immigration. I think this is where the whole "both sides" thing is unhelpful because one of the extremes has now become pretty close to mainstream while the other is a completely fictitious position that nobody actually holds. |
I’m happy to take that back but I haven’t seen any party say they want to remove all migrants?
Of course some will want to deport more than others. | | | |
| It's a start but... on 15:19 - Mar 5 with 386 views | J2BLUE |
Mahmood said housing a family of three in asylum accommodation costs up to £158,000 per year.
How the hell?
I quite liked her speech but I do think it's setting up the Reform dream scenario where they pay out £10,000 and that same person is back in the country within a fortnight. |  |
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| It's a start but... on 15:21 - Mar 5 with 385 views | Herbivore |
| It's a start but... on 15:07 - Mar 5 by Jon_456 |
I’m happy to take that back but I haven’t seen any party say they want to remove all migrants?
Of course some will want to deport more than others. |
Well, Restore are calling for mass deportations: https://www.theguardian.com/po
And a majority of Reform voters want to see non-white people born outside the UK either forcefully deported or encouraged to leave: https://www.theguardian.com/po | |
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| It's a start but... on 15:51 - Mar 5 with 324 views | noggin |
When I read the headline, I thought it was something to do with politicians. |  |
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| It's a start but... on 16:10 - Mar 5 with 289 views | Jon_456 |
Ok, so no party is looking to deport all migrants. As I say, some more than others, but the immigration issue is clearly a concern for people in this country so there is going to be varying levels of solutions.
Regarding the reform members poll, there are always going to be a small number of people with extreme views. I don’t think the headlines help and actually contributes to the problem I was pointing out originally. Many people will read that and assume any reform voter instantly wants to kick out all non-whites. It’s sensationalises it all and creates further divide.
There was something in the Guardian the other day where they quoted Mahmood as saying she doesn’t support the Greens ‘open border’ policy, which isn’t entirely accurate of their policy either.
I genuinely believe a vast majority of people in this country would have broadly similar views on immigration but perhaps weighted slightly one way or the other based on their life experiences. | | | |
| It's a start but... on 16:33 - Mar 5 with 230 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| It's a start but... on 15:19 - Mar 5 by J2BLUE |
Mahmood said housing a family of three in asylum accommodation costs up to £158,000 per year.
How the hell?
I quite liked her speech but I do think it's setting up the Reform dream scenario where they pay out £10,000 and that same person is back in the country within a fortnight. |
I assumed part of the deportation was that they'll DNA, fingerprint, photographic identification full documentation etc etc so that if any of them do come back they'd be as straightforward to identify as possible.
At least I'd hope so. | | | |
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