| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel 14:21 - Mar 17 with 5630 views | ElderGrizzly |
And threw Trump’s admin under the bus, saying Iran posed no immediate threat and they went to war due to pressure from Israel
[Post edited 17 Mar 14:22]
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:10 - Mar 17 with 1206 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:42 - Mar 17 by ElderGrizzly |
4:35pm update
They’ve unsurprisingly called him a liar. Despite the fact she literally said on camera:
“TO BE CLEAR: No such threat from Iran to our homeland exists, and it never did“
[Post edited 17 Mar 16:43]
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I'm interested to know exactly what 'imminent' threat Iran posed to the USA, given respective military and geopolitical/economic capabilities.
To some US allies, perhaps. But to America itself? |  |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:21 - Mar 17 with 1171 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 14:47 - Mar 17 by Samuelowen88 |
Surely (if it was them) Iran would be shouting about this? |
Yes, unfortunately social media is a goldmine for the gullible. Someone yesterday suggested Israel had shut down all information and received substantial damage, which surprised me given the regular reports I’m seeing in my inbox. Amazing how they silenced the massive western media, commercial, and expat presence in the country.
Most likely explaination is he’s in a bunker (as with much of the civilian population currently (and is usually the case with people like Netenyahu and Putin who’ve made many enemies!). |  | | |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:21 - Mar 17 with 1173 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 14:53 - Mar 17 by Zx1988 |
Indeed.
If it was Iran, and Israel were aware of that, Iran would have been turned into a glowing crater within about ten minutes of their involvement having become known. |
Iran is a very big country and Israel does not have that many bombs/warheads.
Wiping out cities as a form of revenge would be viewed very dimly by the international community. That might well be a step too far even for Trump's USA - who would also then be placed in the awkward position of legally having to disown Israel on grounds of nuclear proliferation (or, by not doing so, tacitly admitting it's ok to develop the bomb, thus undermining their chief basis for the war). | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:27 - Mar 17 with 1161 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:10 - Mar 17 by Guthrum |
I'm interested to know exactly what 'imminent' threat Iran posed to the USA, given respective military and geopolitical/economic capabilities.
To some US allies, perhaps. But to America itself? |
Very little to the mainland US - about as credible as Blair’s Iraq WMD bullsh**t. | | | |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:27 - Mar 17 with 1121 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 15:22 - Mar 17 by jaykay |
steady on bansky |
Jeremy Bowen just had to catch himself mid sentence saying Israel has been exerting undue influence over Trump, mumbled about needing to be careful how he phrased it. A clear example of how these definitions are suppressing common sense observations and analysis.
Job done. |  |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:33 - Mar 17 with 1130 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:42 - Mar 17 by ElderGrizzly |
4:35pm update
They’ve unsurprisingly called him a liar. Despite the fact she literally said on camera:
“TO BE CLEAR: No such threat from Iran to our homeland exists, and it never did“
[Post edited 17 Mar 16:43]
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Well he's certainly economical with the truth.
"lost my beloved wife Shannon in a war manufactured by Israel"
His wife was killed in 2019 by an ISIS suicide in Syria
“This was a lie and is the same tactic the Israelis used to draw us into the disastrous Iraq war that cost our nation the lives of thousands of our best men and women".
Sharon repeatedly warned Bush against going into Iraq. Col. Lawrence Wilkerson Colin Powell’s chief of staff stated in 2007: "The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy. Iran is the enemY. They [Israel] were saying, 'You can manage Iraq. Why are you going to go in and change this? It’s going to destabilize the region.'"
He seems a very complicated chap with ties to Nazi sympathisers and Holocaust deniers.
https://forward.com/fast-forwa
It's quite funny watching people who previously would have viewed Joe Kent as an extremist with his ties to white supremacists, claims that the 2020 election was rigged and pushed conspiracy theories about the Capitol riot, now suddenly hail him as a man of principles because he's saying what they want to hear. [Post edited 17 Mar 17:38]
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:36 - Mar 17 with 1082 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:42 - Mar 17 by ElderGrizzly |
4:35pm update
They’ve unsurprisingly called him a liar. Despite the fact she literally said on camera:
“TO BE CLEAR: No such threat from Iran to our homeland exists, and it never did“
[Post edited 17 Mar 16:43]
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Got as far as the end of paragraph 2 and stopped reading as he is clearly antisemitic as our Glasgow correspondent will hopefully point out shortly!
Edit....so shortly, he beat me to it. [Post edited 17 Mar 17:39]
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:41 - Mar 17 with 1093 views | pointofblue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:33 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Well he's certainly economical with the truth.
"lost my beloved wife Shannon in a war manufactured by Israel"
His wife was killed in 2019 by an ISIS suicide in Syria
“This was a lie and is the same tactic the Israelis used to draw us into the disastrous Iraq war that cost our nation the lives of thousands of our best men and women".
Sharon repeatedly warned Bush against going into Iraq. Col. Lawrence Wilkerson Colin Powell’s chief of staff stated in 2007: "The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy. Iran is the enemY. They [Israel] were saying, 'You can manage Iraq. Why are you going to go in and change this? It’s going to destabilize the region.'"
He seems a very complicated chap with ties to Nazi sympathisers and Holocaust deniers.
https://forward.com/fast-forwa
It's quite funny watching people who previously would have viewed Joe Kent as an extremist with his ties to white supremacists, claims that the 2020 election was rigged and pushed conspiracy theories about the Capitol riot, now suddenly hail him as a man of principles because he's saying what they want to hear. [Post edited 17 Mar 17:38]
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He's probably another Marjorie Taylor Greene - true MAGA rather than acting MAGA like Trump. Doesn't make them any more pleasant, but more steadfast in what their principles are, rather than blowing in the wind.
For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to. | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:43 - Mar 17 with 1048 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:33 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Well he's certainly economical with the truth.
"lost my beloved wife Shannon in a war manufactured by Israel"
His wife was killed in 2019 by an ISIS suicide in Syria
“This was a lie and is the same tactic the Israelis used to draw us into the disastrous Iraq war that cost our nation the lives of thousands of our best men and women".
Sharon repeatedly warned Bush against going into Iraq. Col. Lawrence Wilkerson Colin Powell’s chief of staff stated in 2007: "The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy. Iran is the enemY. They [Israel] were saying, 'You can manage Iraq. Why are you going to go in and change this? It’s going to destabilize the region.'"
He seems a very complicated chap with ties to Nazi sympathisers and Holocaust deniers.
https://forward.com/fast-forwa
It's quite funny watching people who previously would have viewed Joe Kent as an extremist with his ties to white supremacists, claims that the 2020 election was rigged and pushed conspiracy theories about the Capitol riot, now suddenly hail him as a man of principles because he's saying what they want to hear. [Post edited 17 Mar 17:38]
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"It's quite funny watching people who previously would have viewed Joe Kent as an extremist with his ties to white supremacists, claims that the 2020 election was rigged and pushed conspiracy theories about the Capitol riot, now suddenly hail him as a man of principles because he's saying what they want to hear."
Yeah so you're going to have to point out where that happened. In this instance it's just possible he knows a little more about the immediate build up to this conflict than most of us!
But you carry on with your Nethanyahoo/Trump rear guard action....good man you. | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:44 - Mar 17 with 1038 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:41 - Mar 17 by pointofblue |
He's probably another Marjorie Taylor Greene - true MAGA rather than acting MAGA like Trump. Doesn't make them any more pleasant, but more steadfast in what their principles are, rather than blowing in the wind.
For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to. |
This would be the man who believes the last thing he was told!! | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:49 - Mar 17 with 1057 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:41 - Mar 17 by pointofblue |
He's probably another Marjorie Taylor Greene - true MAGA rather than acting MAGA like Trump. Doesn't make them any more pleasant, but more steadfast in what their principles are, rather than blowing in the wind.
For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to. |
Think you over rate the orange idiot there. |  | | |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 18:00 - Mar 17 with 1024 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:41 - Mar 17 by pointofblue |
He's probably another Marjorie Taylor Greene - true MAGA rather than acting MAGA like Trump. Doesn't make them any more pleasant, but more steadfast in what their principles are, rather than blowing in the wind.
For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to. |
Trump is weak enough to be persuaded by Netanyahu into taking action against Iran, with no actual plan in place. Plus the neo cons like Rubio would have been telling how great he would be for going along with it.
But people can say that without falling back on tired old tropes. Daniel Sugarman sums it up well here.
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 20:46 - Mar 17 with 878 views | StokieBlue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 18:00 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Trump is weak enough to be persuaded by Netanyahu into taking action against Iran, with no actual plan in place. Plus the neo cons like Rubio would have been telling how great he would be for going along with it.
But people can say that without falling back on tired old tropes. Daniel Sugarman sums it up well here.
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The issue is that regardless of which bits are true and false in his letter, I don't think it's right to ban language because of historical context which is what you've argued for repeatedly over the last week. At least that is my reading of your posts, please correct me if that isn't the case.
Here you've said that Trump is weak enough to be persuaded by Netanyahu. How is that any different to saying things that you said were tropes?
The language is different but they mean the same things when distilled down to the facts of the situation in that Israel have manipulated the US into this course of action.
I'm clearly missing something here so explain it to me.
SB |  | | |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 20:53 - Mar 17 with 858 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:10 - Mar 17 by Guthrum |
I'm interested to know exactly what 'imminent' threat Iran posed to the USA, given respective military and geopolitical/economic capabilities.
To some US allies, perhaps. But to America itself? |
I’m getting de Déjà vu here. I’m sure we knew Isreal caught America out cold and effectively led them into acting and that there wasn’t any evidence of a credible threat. I’m not sure why this news again 9 or 20 days later. |  |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:09 - Mar 17 with 783 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:41 - Mar 17 by pointofblue |
He's probably another Marjorie Taylor Greene - true MAGA rather than acting MAGA like Trump. Doesn't make them any more pleasant, but more steadfast in what their principles are, rather than blowing in the wind.
For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to. |
This Trump?
In response to a later question about Starmer, Trump repeated that he likes the UK prime minister but added that the US-UK relationship was always the best “before Keir came along”.
He then went on a tangent about windmills. | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:14 - Mar 17 with 779 views | J2BLUE |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:09 - Mar 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
This Trump?
In response to a later question about Starmer, Trump repeated that he likes the UK prime minister but added that the US-UK relationship was always the best “before Keir came along”.
He then went on a tangent about windmills. |
Specifically in Scotland. Where he has a golf course and the Scottish government under Sturgeon wanted to put windmills off the coast spoiling the view (apparently).
So transparently out for his own interests. |  |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:16 - Mar 17 with 758 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 20:46 - Mar 17 by StokieBlue |
The issue is that regardless of which bits are true and false in his letter, I don't think it's right to ban language because of historical context which is what you've argued for repeatedly over the last week. At least that is my reading of your posts, please correct me if that isn't the case.
Here you've said that Trump is weak enough to be persuaded by Netanyahu. How is that any different to saying things that you said were tropes?
The language is different but they mean the same things when distilled down to the facts of the situation in that Israel have manipulated the US into this course of action.
I'm clearly missing something here so explain it to me.
SB |
Jut back from the half time dog walk. I think tropes and context are very important.
So it's completely reasonable to say that Bibi has persuaded Trump or influenced Trump. But using centuries old anti semitic tropes such as the puppet master or pulling strings is completely unnecessary and provocative to Jews. Because Jews have been portrayed by anti semites as pulling the strings of politicians, the banks and the media centuries as a way to scapegoat them and demonise them.
Some examples from the past 100+ years in rough chronological order to demonstrate how the same antisemitic tropes are being adapted for today:
To flip it onto another ethnic group. People may say that Blacks For Trump is an oxymoron. Or that black people voting for Trump are voting against their own interests as Trump is a racist. No issue there. But If somebody said that Blacks For Trump were Trumps slaves, or Blacks for Trump were his house boys, uncle Toms, that would be playing in centuries old tropes that have been used to dehumanise people of colour.
I don't make these rules. Its written down cleary what constitutes and does not constitute anti semitic tropes.
It's like the example given by the IHRA definition of Antisemitism that it is antisemitic to compare the actions of the Israeli ste to the Nazis. The state of Israel was formed by Holocaust survivors as a safe haven for Jews after the Nazis exterminated 6 million of them. Now one could reasonably argue that the actions of the Israeli state is comparable to Mao's China or Putins Russia. But you rarely see that comparison. There are numerous historical examples that people can compare the actions of the Israeli state to. But when people compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, they are attacking them as Jews. That they haven't learned a moral lesson from their own history. It also trivialises the Holocaust.
So yes, I believe you are missing something and I hope I have explained it well enough. And once again, these aren't definitions that I have made up.
Edit. The worrying thing to take from some of the debate on here, and Ulla summed it up well on a couple of posts over the past week, is that 5 years ago no one would have gone near this sort of language that is being used today. This last para not aimed at you. [Post edited 17 Mar 21:26]
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:18 - Mar 17 with 748 views | Guthrum |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:32 - Mar 17 by ElderGrizzly |
He’s gone further and said we are all losers because he is having so much success
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Those who the gods wish to destroy, they first send mad. | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:35 - Mar 17 with 690 views | DJR |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:16 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Jut back from the half time dog walk. I think tropes and context are very important.
So it's completely reasonable to say that Bibi has persuaded Trump or influenced Trump. But using centuries old anti semitic tropes such as the puppet master or pulling strings is completely unnecessary and provocative to Jews. Because Jews have been portrayed by anti semites as pulling the strings of politicians, the banks and the media centuries as a way to scapegoat them and demonise them.
Some examples from the past 100+ years in rough chronological order to demonstrate how the same antisemitic tropes are being adapted for today:
To flip it onto another ethnic group. People may say that Blacks For Trump is an oxymoron. Or that black people voting for Trump are voting against their own interests as Trump is a racist. No issue there. But If somebody said that Blacks For Trump were Trumps slaves, or Blacks for Trump were his house boys, uncle Toms, that would be playing in centuries old tropes that have been used to dehumanise people of colour.
I don't make these rules. Its written down cleary what constitutes and does not constitute anti semitic tropes.
It's like the example given by the IHRA definition of Antisemitism that it is antisemitic to compare the actions of the Israeli ste to the Nazis. The state of Israel was formed by Holocaust survivors as a safe haven for Jews after the Nazis exterminated 6 million of them. Now one could reasonably argue that the actions of the Israeli state is comparable to Mao's China or Putins Russia. But you rarely see that comparison. There are numerous historical examples that people can compare the actions of the Israeli state to. But when people compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, they are attacking them as Jews. That they haven't learned a moral lesson from their own history. It also trivialises the Holocaust.
So yes, I believe you are missing something and I hope I have explained it well enough. And once again, these aren't definitions that I have made up.
Edit. The worrying thing to take from some of the debate on here, and Ulla summed it up well on a couple of posts over the past week, is that 5 years ago no one would have gone near this sort of language that is being used today. This last para not aimed at you. [Post edited 17 Mar 21:26]
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Your second paragraph reflects my view. Indeed, I found it strange from the discussion on a different thread yesterday that most people didn't seem to be aware of the puppet /pulling strings tropes.
But if you are aware, my view is that you just shouldn't use such expressions because language matters and what is intended to be conveyed can no doubt be expressed in a different way, [Post edited 17 Mar 21:47]
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:36 - Mar 17 with 687 views | BlueBadger |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:10 - Mar 17 by Guthrum |
I'm interested to know exactly what 'imminent' threat Iran posed to the USA, given respective military and geopolitical/economic capabilities.
To some US allies, perhaps. But to America itself? |
It was a risk because if Trump hadn't had it bombed, the news agenda might have returned to the Epstein files. |  |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:42 - Mar 17 with 650 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:35 - Mar 17 by DJR |
Your second paragraph reflects my view. Indeed, I found it strange from the discussion on a different thread yesterday that most people didn't seem to be aware of the puppet /pulling strings tropes.
But if you are aware, my view is that you just shouldn't use such expressions because language matters and what is intended to be conveyed can no doubt be expressed in a different way, [Post edited 17 Mar 21:47]
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Indeed. When I reasonably pointed out to a poster that they had unintentionally used an anti semitic trope of which they may not have been aware by referring to Netanyahu as Trump's puppet master, I honestly expected that poster to take those comments onboard and avoid using problematic language in the future. There ere plenty of ways to describe Netanyahu's relationship with Trump without resorting to centuries old tropes. Instead, they went onto another thread, doubled down and repeated the trope. To me, that shows intent. | |
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 22:10 - Mar 17 with 606 views | WicklowBlue |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:25 - Mar 17 by Dubtractor |
You've managed to avoid arrest so far then? |
Keeping a low profile Dubbers! Mind you what is being shared with me is way more critical of Trump that what I am posting here! I am deliberately avoiding the subject but keep getting dragged in with people ranting.
The main question I get is what is the feeling over in Ireland, EU etc. They are reassured when I say same as you are telling me. |  | | |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 07:42 - Mar 18 with 327 views | DJR |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 22:13 - Mar 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Isn't it just a trop if it isn't demonstrably true?
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Whether or not it is true (and in this case I don't think it is), my view is that it is better not to frame thing in terms of words or images which have been used over the centuries, including by the Nazis, to demonise Jewish people.
Indeed, I am a fierce critic of the actions of the Israeli government, and Western acquiescence in relation to their actions, but I am able do that without resorting to tropes.
It is also worth pointing out (for example) that I posted the following last month which indicated my concern about what I called mission creep when it comes to the authorities.
https://news.sky.com/story/bri
"British activist Peter Tatchell arrested for carrying 'intifada' placard
The 74-year-old campaigner said his arrest in central London amounted to "an attack on free speech"."
I would never in a million years use the slogan "globalise the intifada" because it is upsetting to many Jewish people, but what happened to Tatchell is clear mission creep, and speaking as a lawyer I don't think he has committed any offence at all. Indeed, I am sure no charges will follow. And without some proof of some antisemetic intent, I don't think there would be an offence, even if his placard didn't contains the words "Non-violent resistance".
It also worth pointing out that Tatchell was someone who was more than content to accept the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and took the view that it was possible to criticise what is going on in the occupied territories without breaching that definition."
[Post edited 18 Mar 7:57]
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| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 07:56 - Mar 18 with 429 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 07:42 - Mar 18 by DJR |
Whether or not it is true (and in this case I don't think it is), my view is that it is better not to frame thing in terms of words or images which have been used over the centuries, including by the Nazis, to demonise Jewish people.
Indeed, I am a fierce critic of the actions of the Israeli government, and Western acquiescence in relation to their actions, but I am able do that without resorting to tropes.
It is also worth pointing out (for example) that I posted the following last month which indicated my concern about what I called mission creep when it comes to the authorities.
https://news.sky.com/story/bri
"British activist Peter Tatchell arrested for carrying 'intifada' placard
The 74-year-old campaigner said his arrest in central London amounted to "an attack on free speech"."
I would never in a million years use the slogan "globalise the intifada" because it is upsetting to many Jewish people, but what happened to Tatchell is clear mission creep, and speaking as a lawyer I don't think he has committed any offence at all. Indeed, I am sure no charges will follow. And without some proof of some antisemetic intent, I don't think there would be an offence, even if his placard didn't contains the words "Non-violent resistance".
It also worth pointing out that Tatchell was someone who was more than content to accept the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and took the view that it was possible to criticise what is going on in the occupied territories without breaching that definition."
[Post edited 18 Mar 7:57]
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Thanks for the reply with which I respectfully disagree. Are you saying that you don't think Trump's actions have been strongly molded by Nethanyahoo and the wider Israeli lobby?
Did you catch Jetemy Bowen on PM yesterday having to tip toe around words for fearing falling foul of definitions rather than speaking freely yesterday? It must be 10 to 15 minutes in if I remember correctly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programm | |
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