| Perspective is needed... 11:34 - Mar 28 with 3860 views | Westcountryblue |
I continue to be amazed at just how short-sighted those attacking Mark Ashton continue to be. Have you had your eyes shut to what’s actually happening at this club over the past 5 years, as we've been dragged out of the dark ages and turned into a competitive, ambitious and forward-thinking club. The vitriolic bile that continues to be aimed in his direction totally and utterly forgets the fact that HE is the person that has essentially strengthened the link that ITFC has to the communities and underrepresented elements of it.
Look at the facts before you continue to character assassinate without any facts or evidence:
The Women’s Team: They aren't a side-project anymore. It's an incredibly well-run and professional whole setup who have played Portman Road in front of 10k+ crowds, and are making sure they have access to the same facilities the first team have.
The Foundation: He took a department with 3 staff and increased it to nearly 30 (or around that figure i believe). They’re out there every week reaching thousands of people in Suffolk.
Genuine inclusion: Weekly LGBTQ+ sessions, support and awareness for a wide variety of supporters' groups, a proper PA/Carer Network for disabled fans, and things like the Golden Days Café for people with dementia.There's been other stuff like opening Genesis Orwell Mencap and setting up the Empower Hub in high-deprivation areas.
Fact of the matter is, this club has never been more engaged than it currently is within the community, supporting the underrepresented and those in need. Whether you dislike the man or not, he has delivered more in the past in four years than the previous lot did in fifteen. Get some perspective! |  | | |  |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:31 - Mar 28 with 713 views | grow_our_own |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:18 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
Confirmed through other sources? That's not particularly concrete, and it's a little naive to assume that national media and indeed the ITFC informant (who is unlikely to be working at executive level) have everything bang on. Sorry, but "other sources" seems to be a recurring theme in your posts, and I'm sure you understand the importance of substantiating points, a two sided arguement and the concept of validity.
I'll ask the same question again: do you think all CEOs have a perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make?
I'll also follow that up with a further question: do you think the CEOs of publicly listed companies are gospel in everything they communicate with shareholders? |
"do you think the CEOs of publicly listed companies are gospel in everything they communicate with shareholders?" - no, but the ones who aren't are sacked. This is because they, like Ashton, as directors, have a fiduciary duty to act in good faith in promoting the company’s success. That's company law. Did Ashton act in good faith this week when he told staff & media he wasn't involved, when he actually held a meeting with NF? Can he realistically say he promoted the success of ITFC when he politicised the club and drove a wedge between supporters? It's gross misconduct. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:34 - Mar 28 with 700 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:29 - Mar 28 by Bellevue_Blue |
Yes but the lies are totally harmless, hence white lies. It harms nobody if the club bought the shirts, harms nobody if he had lunch with Farage etc etc. The only harmful thing was the reform promotional video and I don't think any details have come out about content capture etc.
We don't know everything that happens behind close doors at ITFC and nor should we. I suspect he and Mckenna told a few white lies when he was close to joining Brighton a few summers ago.
Politics is just that much more sensitive and that was his misjudgement.
We all tell white lies, that is the point. Our threshold in our own lives is very high. We should expect more from MA as a figure head for our club, but he's lived up to a very very high standard for 5+ years.
We can't and should not expect perfection in everything that he does. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:30]
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Wow. Your definition of a 'white lie' is very different to my (and the dictionary) definition of a 'white lie'.
But that is fine, that is your right. For others, this is far from a 'white lie', it was a blatant untruth, an attempt to hoodwink and gaslight the fans and a disgraceful cover up by a man who extols the virtues of 'better together' and 'running towards adversity'.
For me, that is more than just a step too far. For you it is not. I respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect those of others who feel completely betrayed by it all. |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:34 - Mar 28 with 695 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:59 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
He worked with the Yanks first and then recommended the club as a suitable investment for them.
If you doubt this, you can fact check with the powers that be on this website, as i shared the story via a contact in the industry. |
Wasn't it Frank Yallop who recommended the club first as he knew the three lions as a connection at Phoenix Rising?
The three lions then looked into things further |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:36 - Mar 28 with 697 views | homer_123 |
As i posted yesterday. No one would sensibly argue against what Ashton & Co have achieved since taking over.
All that hard work, particularly rebuilding links with the fans and wider community has been jeopardised by this decision.
We can argue whether meeting Farage was a good idea or not. In and of itself its not really that big a deal.
However, not publicising it and even keeping it from staff indicates he knew what the feeling might be. To then obfuscate, deny and lie to staff, media and fans then makes the whole situation worse. To cap it off, the Club has been weaponised by Farage and Reform.
We then get to the 'apology', where there is zero accountability or ownership...it was more of I'm sorry...I got caught apology.
For me, if we step back we can acknowledge the achievements we have had but this debacle is completely contrary to our values and ethos as a Club.
Yesterday showed that, actually, it's success at any cost and for me....that's not good enough for Ipswich Town. Its not the Club I knew and loved.
And that, entirely, sits with Ashton. |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:39 - Mar 28 with 667 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:34 - Mar 28 by TheMoralMajority |
Wow. Your definition of a 'white lie' is very different to my (and the dictionary) definition of a 'white lie'.
But that is fine, that is your right. For others, this is far from a 'white lie', it was a blatant untruth, an attempt to hoodwink and gaslight the fans and a disgraceful cover up by a man who extols the virtues of 'better together' and 'running towards adversity'.
For me, that is more than just a step too far. For you it is not. I respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect those of others who feel completely betrayed by it all. |
I totally respect yours and others opinions ...
All I'm saying is I think it is highly likely you are holding MA to a totally different set of standards than you hold to yourself.
If you've never told a few harmless lies to get yourself out of a spot of trouble then you are a far far better person than the large majority of the population. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:40 - Mar 28 with 664 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:25 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
"Confirmed through other sources? That's not particularly concrete, and it's a little naive to assume that national media and indeed the ITFC informant (who is unlikely to be working at executive level) have everything bang on. "
The Athletic is a well respected international news agency. I doubt they would run with something if they weren't pretty sure it was true. Why didn't Ashton come out and deny it in his interview?
"Sorry, but "other sources" seems to be a recurring theme in your posts"
Show me where this is the case. Give examples because that's not a great accusation.
"I'll ask the same question again: do you think all CEOs have a perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make?"
This is whatabouterry and I've already covered it. The football stuff up until this point as been good, lying to fans and the media is not good. You're willing to excuse the second part because the first part has been good. Many fans aren't as you can see from reading the forum.
Not really much more either of us can say, you think it's fine, I don't think it's great. Each to their own.
SB |
Well, you mentioned "other sources" three times in your post. Personally, I just think we should be cautious. Some of the fairly hateful characterisations aimed at MA on this board have no firm substance, and I think the lines between the aura of a self-assured, confident man can sometimes incorrectly become unfairly misconstrued with someone who has an ego. Without any of us knowing him personally for any great deal of time, we can't really jump to judgements about his character, not that you're arguing this.
Regarding The Athletic, it is a well-respected international news outlet. However, it's still only one source, and it also relies on the assumption that the ITFC informant was indeed "in the know" at executive level. If he or she wasn't directly working with, or line-managed by, MA or LW, then the possibility of discord existing should also be considered. Can you truly reach a firm conclusion based on one news story?
The interest of The Athletic is (a subsidiary of The New York Times Company) is to build their readership.
As you say, each to their own. Interesting to have this dialogue though. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:42 - Mar 28 with 652 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:39 - Mar 28 by Bellevue_Blue |
I totally respect yours and others opinions ...
All I'm saying is I think it is highly likely you are holding MA to a totally different set of standards than you hold to yourself.
If you've never told a few harmless lies to get yourself out of a spot of trouble then you are a far far better person than the large majority of the population. |
This is the crux of the issue. What you consider to be "harmless lies" I consider to be far from harmless.
I would suggest that the fallout and division caused on these boards and elsewhere would be evidence enough of that.
The sad thing is that just 3 days ago it would have been unthinkable for me to want Ashton out, but I am where I am.
However, I very much doubt either of us will be persuading the other to their viewpoint, so I will leave it there. Have a great weekend! [Post edited 28 Mar 12:44]
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| Perspective is needed... on 13:00 - Mar 28 with 610 views | BlueObi |
For me Ashton needs to be given a second chance, even if a short term one. He has been instrumental in the turn round in the football club. Do I agree with what happened this week, no, and I am not a Reform party supporter (before I am accused of that).
We need to be pragmatic, there are eight games left, we need to get behind the club, regardless of personal feelings. Once the season is completed, then is the time to assess.
Assess is the correct word, not personally attack, Ashton or the club. What has happened is done, no going back. The owners will need to assess the position then, it may well be time for a new direction, both at board and manager level.
Having met Mark Ashton, I am surprised that such a switched on person, made this mistake. My impression of him is this, a very good football operator, very engaging, driven, and ruthless.
I understand we are all hurt and upset, Ashton has apologised (sort of), now is not the time to have this continual dialogue about whether he should stay or go. Let’s focus on the team and support them.
The summer is the time to assess in the cold light of day, personally, I think his future will hinge on us getting promoted. No promotion, and I think there will be a new direction. | | | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 13:01 - Mar 28 with 609 views | noggin |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:29 - Mar 28 by Bellevue_Blue |
Yes but the lies are totally harmless, hence white lies. It harms nobody if the club bought the shirts, harms nobody if he had lunch with Farage etc etc. The only harmful thing was the reform promotional video and I don't think any details have come out about content capture etc.
We don't know everything that happens behind close doors at ITFC and nor should we. I suspect he and Mckenna told a few white lies when he was close to joining Brighton a few summers ago.
Politics is just that much more sensitive and that was his misjudgement.
We all tell white lies, that is the point. Our threshold in our own lives is very high. We should expect more from MA as a figure head for our club, but he's lived up to a very very high standard for 5+ years.
We can't and should not expect perfection in everything that he does. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:30]
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"Yes but the lies are totally harmless"
Are you serious? Why do you think he is trying to squirm his way out of them?
Ashton out!! |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 13:05 - Mar 28 with 594 views | pointofblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:40 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
Well, you mentioned "other sources" three times in your post. Personally, I just think we should be cautious. Some of the fairly hateful characterisations aimed at MA on this board have no firm substance, and I think the lines between the aura of a self-assured, confident man can sometimes incorrectly become unfairly misconstrued with someone who has an ego. Without any of us knowing him personally for any great deal of time, we can't really jump to judgements about his character, not that you're arguing this.
Regarding The Athletic, it is a well-respected international news outlet. However, it's still only one source, and it also relies on the assumption that the ITFC informant was indeed "in the know" at executive level. If he or she wasn't directly working with, or line-managed by, MA or LW, then the possibility of discord existing should also be considered. Can you truly reach a firm conclusion based on one news story?
The interest of The Athletic is (a subsidiary of The New York Times Company) is to build their readership.
As you say, each to their own. Interesting to have this dialogue though. |
I think the club/Ashton could help themselves out by staying what the "mistruths" are, rather than using the word without any further context. What are they denying? The meal? The free shirts? The invite to Farage in the first place? | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 13:09 - Mar 28 with 590 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:22 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
''The way he talks about himself in the third person and treats the club like his fiefdom'' is this your own personal take, or can you actually back this up ?
The Lincoln 'antics'. I seem to recall him celebrating wildly with the fans ? Whether that was sincere or not, i believe it was well recieved by our away supporters, that had been kept at arms length and for many years, not even seen a public picture of the owner of their club. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:26]
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Listen to any clip of him talking!
I was at Lincoln. He actually missed me for the high five. I've held it against him ever since...
The point is that he has always sought the limelight. He's got a huge ego. Not ever CEO behaves like that. |  | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 13:10 - Mar 28 with 584 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 13:00 - Mar 28 by BlueObi |
For me Ashton needs to be given a second chance, even if a short term one. He has been instrumental in the turn round in the football club. Do I agree with what happened this week, no, and I am not a Reform party supporter (before I am accused of that).
We need to be pragmatic, there are eight games left, we need to get behind the club, regardless of personal feelings. Once the season is completed, then is the time to assess.
Assess is the correct word, not personally attack, Ashton or the club. What has happened is done, no going back. The owners will need to assess the position then, it may well be time for a new direction, both at board and manager level.
Having met Mark Ashton, I am surprised that such a switched on person, made this mistake. My impression of him is this, a very good football operator, very engaging, driven, and ruthless.
I understand we are all hurt and upset, Ashton has apologised (sort of), now is not the time to have this continual dialogue about whether he should stay or go. Let’s focus on the team and support them.
The summer is the time to assess in the cold light of day, personally, I think his future will hinge on us getting promoted. No promotion, and I think there will be a new direction. |
Some things are bigger than football matches. The integrity of the club is at stake. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 13:10 - Mar 28 with 583 views | andyblue231 |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:50 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
Has any ITFC leader had the full house of outstanding leadership traits and qualities ?
What consistes to 'true leadership' ? Virtue? Ambition? Empathy? Decisiveness? Leadership is a big term to define.
I'd argued that very few the previous leaders of this club showed any interest in the community and unrepresented groups, some of which in need of support. |
I don't believe we should forgive people poor behaviour because they have performed well in other areas. Competence isn't a get out of jail free card. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 14:43 - Mar 28 with 530 views | BlueObi |
| Perspective is needed... on 13:10 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
Some things are bigger than football matches. The integrity of the club is at stake. |
If we let this derail our season, then Farage and co have won. The damage is done, we sack Ashton now, with no replacement, we run risk of everything falling apart.
I personally believe he needs to go but at the right time. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 14:55 - Mar 28 with 513 views | grow_our_own |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:40 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
Well, you mentioned "other sources" three times in your post. Personally, I just think we should be cautious. Some of the fairly hateful characterisations aimed at MA on this board have no firm substance, and I think the lines between the aura of a self-assured, confident man can sometimes incorrectly become unfairly misconstrued with someone who has an ego. Without any of us knowing him personally for any great deal of time, we can't really jump to judgements about his character, not that you're arguing this.
Regarding The Athletic, it is a well-respected international news outlet. However, it's still only one source, and it also relies on the assumption that the ITFC informant was indeed "in the know" at executive level. If he or she wasn't directly working with, or line-managed by, MA or LW, then the possibility of discord existing should also be considered. Can you truly reach a firm conclusion based on one news story?
The interest of The Athletic is (a subsidiary of The New York Times Company) is to build their readership.
As you say, each to their own. Interesting to have this dialogue though. |
"unfairly misconstrued with someone who has an ego"
All this just for the CEO's ego and wanting to meet Nigel Farage by Blue_Order 26 Mar 18:45Ashton threatened to “finish” our fans group for displaying ‘unauthorised banners inside HIS stadium’ during a recent meeting.
He was shouting and swearing at us for a good 45 minutes - we had to tell him to calm down and stop talking to us the way he was. Could tell from the (non) reaction of the other club staff present, it wasn’t the first time they’d seen him behave like that.
The whole meeting was wild and if I hadn’t have witnessed it myself, I probably wouldn’t have believed it.
If this is the end of him, then good riddance. Despite his good professional work, as a man, he’s never been fit to lead our great club.
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| Perspective is needed... on 15:25 - Mar 28 with 484 views | Meadowlark |
If all of that is true, what was his thought process in inviting a divisive, racist, hateful figurehead for all that opposes the very things you list to share lunch and use the club's facilities to propagate his message? |  | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 15:47 - Mar 28 with 458 views | ernie |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:51 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
Little detail from the Watford Observer article: he told the paper that they would need to pay £1000 to run the player of the year competition they had run for decades previously.
The touchline antics at Lincoln.
The way he talks about himself in the third person and treats the club like his fiefdom.
It's always been about him. |
Yet none of these things were a problem for you all the time he’s been here until he started (allegedly) associating with people holding political views you don’t agree with. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 15:51 - Mar 28 with 450 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Perspective is needed... on 15:47 - Mar 28 by ernie |
Yet none of these things were a problem for you all the time he’s been here until he started (allegedly) associating with people holding political views you don’t agree with. |
Why are you choosing to deliberately miss the point? Up until 3 days ago I had no issue with Mark Ashton at all, other than thinking he was a bit David Brent.
You downvoted me for this before, but I'm not going to let it stop me, in the hope that you may actually try to engage with the issue that most people actually have rather than trying to push the narrative into some kind of culture wars bs:
I see freedom of speech is irrelevant here by TheMoralMajority 26 Mar 22:07Jesus christ.
For the umpteeth time it's not about f'ing reform. It's about platforming a political party, *any* political party, denying it, lying about it and gaslighting the fans, all whilst claiming to be 'apolitical'
Sure, carry on with the "whataboutery" if you want, serves no purpose.
We all, as fans, have been taken for absolute mugs. You may be ok with that. I am not.
There are those on the right who will go "yeah, but, what about Starmer, what about the Greens".
There are those on the left who will scream to high heaven "Farage is a Nazi!!".
None of these are the point (and neither side really do any service to the real issue)
OUR CLUB IS NOT A POLITICAL MOUTHPIECE
WE ARE NOT HERE TO HAVE OUR MONEY TAKEN OFF US AND BE LIED TO.
REPEATEDLY.
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| Perspective is needed... on 16:30 - Mar 28 with 421 views | ringwoodblue |
The problem is that personalities and those in the media spotlight can’t make mistakes any more without all these perfect people on forums and social media (who’ve obviously never made a mistake in their life) crucifying them.
Turns out Ashton is human after all and he’s made a horrendous error of judgement here but we shouldn’t forget all the positive things he’s done for the club since he arrived. |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 16:32 - Mar 28 with 417 views | andyblue231 |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:30 - Mar 28 by ringwoodblue |
The problem is that personalities and those in the media spotlight can’t make mistakes any more without all these perfect people on forums and social media (who’ve obviously never made a mistake in their life) crucifying them.
Turns out Ashton is human after all and he’s made a horrendous error of judgement here but we shouldn’t forget all the positive things he’s done for the club since he arrived. |
It's not one mistake. It's several mistakes, and several lies over a period of time. Which continued after he had a period of time for reflection. This isn't an instinctive judgment call, this is character revealing.
And yes, if I made this mistake I would expect to be held accountable. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:38 - Mar 28 with 405 views | mrshallisfit |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:55 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
That's interesting. What makes it "pretty clear"? Do you have firm evidence to substantiate anything you've just said, or is it just your hunch that you're putting across forcefully in the hope that your tone helps it stick?
Do you think all CEOs have that perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make? I'd say Ashton's hit rate is pretty good.
I'm interested to hear your perspective. |
Ehhhh...There is an ocean between not flawlessly executing their tasks and what happened last Monday. An absolute Pacific Ocean. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:39 - Mar 28 with 401 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 15:47 - Mar 28 by ernie |
Yet none of these things were a problem for you all the time he’s been here until he started (allegedly) associating with people holding political views you don’t agree with. |
For someone who religiously down votes my posts, you don't seem to read them.
I've said I have felt unease about Ashton at several points, especially the corporate approach he takes.
Is not allegedly by the way. He did associate with them.
Nothing to do with political views. ITFC is not a plaything to use to launch a promotional campaign for a political party.
It's not Ashton's personal fiefdom. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:41 - Mar 28 with 395 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:30 - Mar 28 by ringwoodblue |
The problem is that personalities and those in the media spotlight can’t make mistakes any more without all these perfect people on forums and social media (who’ve obviously never made a mistake in their life) crucifying them.
Turns out Ashton is human after all and he’s made a horrendous error of judgement here but we shouldn’t forget all the positive things he’s done for the club since he arrived. |
If you were a headteacher, or a nurse, or a member of the council, you would be dismissed for what he's done.
Why should he be any different? | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:45 - Mar 28 with 390 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Perspective is needed... on 16:30 - Mar 28 by ringwoodblue |
The problem is that personalities and those in the media spotlight can’t make mistakes any more without all these perfect people on forums and social media (who’ve obviously never made a mistake in their life) crucifying them.
Turns out Ashton is human after all and he’s made a horrendous error of judgement here but we shouldn’t forget all the positive things he’s done for the club since he arrived. |
"Turns out Ashton is human after all and he’s made a horrendous error of judgement"
I completely agree, everyone makes mistakes, and he has made a horrendous error of judgement
The difference is when most responsible people make mistakes, they own them, not double down, lie, gaslight and lie some more.
Let's not forget the only reason we got this 'apology' is that he has been caught with his trousers down and has no comeback. At no point has he admitted to or even explained what this error of judgement is. [Post edited 28 Mar 16:45]
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| Perspective is needed... on 18:04 - Mar 28 with 362 views | farkenhell |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:11 - Mar 28 by grow_our_own |
1. Has he? Most of our major signings that Ashton brokered are languishing outside the first team or are out on loan. Ashton performed in proportion to the size of our budget vs our competitors in L1. I'll give him that he did recruit KM. But beyond that, it's all to be expected given Ipswich are a community club, and we've had the cash to spend on Cat 1 & the training ground. Nothing that counterbalances your #2. We can and will do better than him. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:19]
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Would you please stop peddling the line that MA has done nothing good other than appoint KM. You said the same on other threads. The club is light years ahead of where it was both on and off the field than when he first joined. He's royally fecked up this week and still not redeemed himself in my eyes, but that should not detract from what he has achieved. | | | |
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