| Reality Check 00:47 - Apr 26 with 4138 views | quad |
I'm sure I'm going to get loads of downvotes for this, but here goes.
I think we are a better side now than when we got promoted last time around. I'm getting annoyed at people saying we've been terrible this season when we're currently on the brink of promotion.
Even if you ignore the Southampton game coming up completely, I would strongly fancy us to beat a mid-table QPR with nothing to play for, at home. I'm not saying it's a certainty that we win that game, but you would have to fancy our chances. It wasn't supposed to be a formality that we get promoted, the HMS Piss the League was never going to set sail. Fans have just become more entitled.
It was more exciting last time and the players were hero-worshipped because promotion wasn't expected, we were the massive underdogs.
Not taking anything away from that achievement because it was truly amazing. But I think that we all forget certain things like Leeds bottling it and losing at home to Blackburn and then 4-0 away to QPR, Sarmiento's late, late winner, and the fact that Chappers was really ineffective in the 2nd half of that season.
We were a good team then and we're a good team now. We needed a bit of a rub of the green then and we will need it again now. It was a tough season then and it's a tough season now. The current team don't deserve to be slated the way they are being. |  | | |  |
| Reality Check on 01:32 - Apr 26 with 3407 views | TripSwitch |
Whether you actually misguidedly believe this, or are just trying to be contrarian for the attention, this is complete and utter BS, from start to finish.
The eye test alone could tell you that but as that can't be used as proof the stats clearly bear out that this side is much weaker than the 2023/24 side.
I could trot out many but to look at the one that matters:
2023 24 96 points after 46 games
2025 26 80 points after 44 games
So that totally disproves your argument, there's nothing more that needs saying. Not in the same league.
To further disprove it, you talk about Leeds bottling it based on a couple of games. No, the team that bottled it are Middlesbrough who were top and 7 points ahead of us in 3rd at that start of Feb, to then go on a glorious run of just 2 wins in 12 games including 6 games at home without winning. That's called bottling.
If you put this side in that 2023 24 season, with a maximum possible 86 points they would STATISTICALLY have finished 5th behind Leicester (97 points), superior Ipswich, (96 points) Leeds (90pts) and Southampton (87 pts)
There's a reality check for you, without even starting to go into the respective money spent on both sides.... [Post edited 26 Apr 1:39]
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| Reality Check on 01:44 - Apr 26 with 3379 views | Illinoisblue |
| Reality Check on 01:32 - Apr 26 by TripSwitch |
Whether you actually misguidedly believe this, or are just trying to be contrarian for the attention, this is complete and utter BS, from start to finish.
The eye test alone could tell you that but as that can't be used as proof the stats clearly bear out that this side is much weaker than the 2023/24 side.
I could trot out many but to look at the one that matters:
2023 24 96 points after 46 games
2025 26 80 points after 44 games
So that totally disproves your argument, there's nothing more that needs saying. Not in the same league.
To further disprove it, you talk about Leeds bottling it based on a couple of games. No, the team that bottled it are Middlesbrough who were top and 7 points ahead of us in 3rd at that start of Feb, to then go on a glorious run of just 2 wins in 12 games including 6 games at home without winning. That's called bottling.
If you put this side in that 2023 24 season, with a maximum possible 86 points they would STATISTICALLY have finished 5th behind Leicester (97 points), superior Ipswich, (96 points) Leeds (90pts) and Southampton (87 pts)
There's a reality check for you, without even starting to go into the respective money spent on both sides.... [Post edited 26 Apr 1:39]
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This seems to be a lot of energy making pointless comparisons. If we go up again, what will it matter? On the verge of a 3rd promotion in 4 seasons and people are more miserable than in the Evans years. Funny old game. |  |
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| Reality Check on 01:55 - Apr 26 with 3350 views | TripSwitch |
| Reality Check on 01:44 - Apr 26 by Illinoisblue |
This seems to be a lot of energy making pointless comparisons. If we go up again, what will it matter? On the verge of a 3rd promotion in 4 seasons and people are more miserable than in the Evans years. Funny old game. |
The OP has brought up the comparison by stating that this side are better than the previous promotion side which is clearly untrue.
FWIW I agree with you that we shouldnt be comparing and just look at both teams on their own merits on their own right | |
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| Reality Check on 02:05 - Apr 26 with 3325 views | quirkie |
We have supposedly better players this campaign but what we don't have is the same team dynamics we had two years ago, that was something else, and I doubt we'll ever have a team the same for at least a generation.
The thing with the team this year is somehow they are 2nd but they have never really played a full game convincingly for the majority of games this season, why that is I just don't know, I can only think it is because McKenna is constantly chopping and changing the team and just can't get a settled consistent side to play how he wants in his mind.
If we do get the 3pts next two games, it’ll be fantastic, be under no illusion getting out the of Championship is tough, but I do hope we have improved our scouting situation, and that in the summer we get the players in that will give us a much better chance of staying up. We certainly need a striker, a new “Morsey” and a midfield playmaker to boss games. |  |
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| Reality Check on 02:15 - Apr 26 with 3286 views | quad |
| Reality Check on 01:32 - Apr 26 by TripSwitch |
Whether you actually misguidedly believe this, or are just trying to be contrarian for the attention, this is complete and utter BS, from start to finish.
The eye test alone could tell you that but as that can't be used as proof the stats clearly bear out that this side is much weaker than the 2023/24 side.
I could trot out many but to look at the one that matters:
2023 24 96 points after 46 games
2025 26 80 points after 44 games
So that totally disproves your argument, there's nothing more that needs saying. Not in the same league.
To further disprove it, you talk about Leeds bottling it based on a couple of games. No, the team that bottled it are Middlesbrough who were top and 7 points ahead of us in 3rd at that start of Feb, to then go on a glorious run of just 2 wins in 12 games including 6 games at home without winning. That's called bottling.
If you put this side in that 2023 24 season, with a maximum possible 86 points they would STATISTICALLY have finished 5th behind Leicester (97 points), superior Ipswich, (96 points) Leeds (90pts) and Southampton (87 pts)
There's a reality check for you, without even starting to go into the respective money spent on both sides.... [Post edited 26 Apr 1:39]
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I could argue that the overall points totals of the top 4 this season have been considerably lower than 23-24 season and all that your stats prove is that it has been a more competitive league this season and teams have been far more evenly matched.
All the top 4 teams were about 10 points better off than they are this season.
Ipswich goals against that season 57 versus 45 this season which proves we are far better defensively now than we were then.
Prior to Boro's last two winning games this season they have only won 2 games in their last 12.. Exactly the same as the 23-24 season then. So they have bottled it this season just as much as they bottled it back then. | | | |
| Reality Check on 02:17 - Apr 26 with 3280 views | quad |
| Reality Check on 02:05 - Apr 26 by quirkie |
We have supposedly better players this campaign but what we don't have is the same team dynamics we had two years ago, that was something else, and I doubt we'll ever have a team the same for at least a generation.
The thing with the team this year is somehow they are 2nd but they have never really played a full game convincingly for the majority of games this season, why that is I just don't know, I can only think it is because McKenna is constantly chopping and changing the team and just can't get a settled consistent side to play how he wants in his mind.
If we do get the 3pts next two games, it’ll be fantastic, be under no illusion getting out the of Championship is tough, but I do hope we have improved our scouting situation, and that in the summer we get the players in that will give us a much better chance of staying up. We certainly need a striker, a new “Morsey” and a midfield playmaker to boss games. |
I'll definitely agree that the team spirit and dynamics were better before. | | | |
| Reality Check on 02:38 - Apr 26 with 3255 views | Illinoisblue |
| Reality Check on 01:55 - Apr 26 by TripSwitch |
The OP has brought up the comparison by stating that this side are better than the previous promotion side which is clearly untrue.
FWIW I agree with you that we shouldnt be comparing and just look at both teams on their own merits on their own right |
We could be Stoke and really have something to moan about. This is grim reading:
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| Reality Check on 02:59 - Apr 26 with 3228 views | Yallop2 |
I'm loving this season and I loved it two years ago. It's a great time to be a town fan after 20 years in the doldrums.
Take it in and enjoy it. Great times.
COYB |  | | |
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| Reality Check on 05:28 - Apr 26 with 3079 views | AYACCA |
It's all about people getting their dopamine, once a stimulus has been achieved (ie promotion with great football) then to achieve the same release of dopamine the supporters want it again. As we haven't played as good entertaining football or amassed as many wins then the dopamine needs aren't being met leaving people irritated. Add on that an ever growing population of men addicted to porn, nicotine, alcohol, social media, gaming, caffeine - We're all modern day drug addicts so real life is not as fun for a lot if people. Hence the moaning at success. [Post edited 26 Apr 5:30]
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| Reality Check on 06:49 - Apr 26 with 2883 views | Benters |
| Reality Check on 01:44 - Apr 26 by Illinoisblue |
This seems to be a lot of energy making pointless comparisons. If we go up again, what will it matter? On the verge of a 3rd promotion in 4 seasons and people are more miserable than in the Evans years. Funny old game. |
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| Reality Check on 07:31 - Apr 26 with 2730 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Reality Check on 01:44 - Apr 26 by Illinoisblue |
This seems to be a lot of energy making pointless comparisons. If we go up again, what will it matter? On the verge of a 3rd promotion in 4 seasons and people are more miserable than in the Evans years. Funny old game. |
Very good point.
It could well be the PL is not all it is cracked up to be and last time it was awful for us, I did not enjoy the games personally and I know a good few Town fans who felt similar once the shine wore off after the summer.
When we had Huddersfield on the Saturday lunchtime kick off I had never been so pumped for it, as were all my friends and family. No one spoke of nothing else and it was all positive and brilliant and let's face it was the best day of many of our town supporting life's.
Maybe if we could win a few and give teams an actual game in the PL it would be something to look forward to longer term.
But for now, it is a work in progress. | | | |
| Reality Check on 07:54 - Apr 26 with 2581 views | RetroBlue |
| Reality Check on 02:38 - Apr 26 by Illinoisblue |
We could be Stoke and really have something to moan about. This is grim reading:
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But this is exactly how we were under Evans tenure. Which ended in relegation yo League One where we were midtable there for 4 seasons. New owners/ regime changed all that. But I wouldn't say for the money spent, that we exactly have a stunning squad and in my view this squad is even less PL ready than the original dbl winning " team", and if we do go up again, what will Ashton/ McKenna do. RIP it all up again? |  |
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| Reality Check on 08:00 - Apr 26 with 2557 views | ITFC_Forever |
A large part of the problem with this season is that some fan’s expectations are so ridiculously high they were never going to be happy.
KMc has said many times that it’s a new group and part of that is building the relationship with the fans, which was so strong for the class of 2024. |  |
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| Reality Check on 08:42 - Apr 26 with 2402 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Reality Check on 08:00 - Apr 26 by ITFC_Forever |
A large part of the problem with this season is that some fan’s expectations are so ridiculously high they were never going to be happy.
KMc has said many times that it’s a new group and part of that is building the relationship with the fans, which was so strong for the class of 2024. |
The problem is we had all of our cake and ate it on one go. Nothing is as exciting the second time round, marriage is another good example ha | | | |
| Reality Check on 08:45 - Apr 26 with 2382 views | victorysquad |
I agree with the sentiment, but this team is not slated. We have a strong regular away support and forgetting a few london day trippers, the supporters i see are fully behind the team.
The belief may not have been there, but the support has. | |
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| Reality Check on 08:48 - Apr 26 with 2348 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Reality Check on 01:32 - Apr 26 by TripSwitch |
Whether you actually misguidedly believe this, or are just trying to be contrarian for the attention, this is complete and utter BS, from start to finish.
The eye test alone could tell you that but as that can't be used as proof the stats clearly bear out that this side is much weaker than the 2023/24 side.
I could trot out many but to look at the one that matters:
2023 24 96 points after 46 games
2025 26 80 points after 44 games
So that totally disproves your argument, there's nothing more that needs saying. Not in the same league.
To further disprove it, you talk about Leeds bottling it based on a couple of games. No, the team that bottled it are Middlesbrough who were top and 7 points ahead of us in 3rd at that start of Feb, to then go on a glorious run of just 2 wins in 12 games including 6 games at home without winning. That's called bottling.
If you put this side in that 2023 24 season, with a maximum possible 86 points they would STATISTICALLY have finished 5th behind Leicester (97 points), superior Ipswich, (96 points) Leeds (90pts) and Southampton (87 pts)
There's a reality check for you, without even starting to go into the respective money spent on both sides.... [Post edited 26 Apr 1:39]
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To be honest this ‘proves’ nothing other than the points tallies this season are lower for the top clubs than in 23/24. It’s impossible to make direct comparisons, as the opposition were different (nothing stands still).
I could easily make an alternative argument that speculates why 23/24 was a weak league, making it easier for us to do well. The teams promoted in 23/24 did extraordinarily badly in the PL - lowest combined points tally of the 3 relegated, one struggling to beat Derby’s all time individual points total and one of the 3 going straight down to L1 this season (suggesting the 23/24 champions weren’t all that good). All points total a poor 23/24 league, and an easier run for our squad that year.
Does that prove anything? No. But it’s equally plausible compared to your simple comparison of points gained in two completely different situations. | | | |
| Reality Check on 08:55 - Apr 26 with 2287 views | Blooos |
Just saying things to surely try and persuade yourself surely? We are 90% of the time mind numbingly boring to watch, and have less points than the 23/24 team. Yes if we go up then who cares because we’ll ship out half of the squad and hopefully have a proper go next season at staying up.
Anyone that says otherwise though is just kidding themselves. We have dominated a handful of games this season. I still don’t trust this team to win the last game like I did the 23/24 team. | | | |
| Reality Check on 08:57 - Apr 26 with 2270 views | Herbivore |
| Reality Check on 07:54 - Apr 26 by RetroBlue |
But this is exactly how we were under Evans tenure. Which ended in relegation yo League One where we were midtable there for 4 seasons. New owners/ regime changed all that. But I wouldn't say for the money spent, that we exactly have a stunning squad and in my view this squad is even less PL ready than the original dbl winning " team", and if we do go up again, what will Ashton/ McKenna do. RIP it all up again? |
Every team that goes up needs to make a dozen signings and we'll be no different. Leeds and Burnley have spent a lot more time in the Prem than us in recent years and both made a load of signings last summer despite getting 100+ points in the Championship. That's the nature of the beast. But to say we're less PL ready than in 2023/24 is just plain wrong. Off the pitch the infrastructure is there now. In terms of the squad we have players who should at least be decent squad options at the level up. We didn't have that when we went up last time. Just look at where many of the 2023/24 squad are now plying their trade, Omari and Hladky (as a bench warmer) aside, we've got a handful still here and the rest playing at middling Championship or League 1 level. |  |
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| Reality Check on 09:13 - Apr 26 with 2186 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Reality Check on 08:57 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Every team that goes up needs to make a dozen signings and we'll be no different. Leeds and Burnley have spent a lot more time in the Prem than us in recent years and both made a load of signings last summer despite getting 100+ points in the Championship. That's the nature of the beast. But to say we're less PL ready than in 2023/24 is just plain wrong. Off the pitch the infrastructure is there now. In terms of the squad we have players who should at least be decent squad options at the level up. We didn't have that when we went up last time. Just look at where many of the 2023/24 squad are now plying their trade, Omari and Hladky (as a bench warmer) aside, we've got a handful still here and the rest playing at middling Championship or League 1 level. |
That's a good point and not factored in, off the pitch and commercially we are I would think at PL level, so that's positive and should drive focus to solely to recruitment in the summer over having to build a squad and a million things on top. | | | |
| Reality Check on 09:33 - Apr 26 with 2118 views | Blue_Heath |
No need for downvotes, it's a funny one because on paper and in terms of value yes. But as a 'team' no. The current side will not get near the points tally from last time and that's the difference for me. Had Hackney not been injured we might well be playing for home advantage rather than 2nd right now. Equally who saw Leeds losing to QPR.
Of course you can look at how Chaplin and the like have performed away from PR this season and you could argue the current players are better.
My issue is as a 'team' we haven't gelled properly this season or last and we are likely going to need to 'gel' another team assuming we go up,
To summarise, the last team we are a sum much greater than their parts whereas the opposite can be said for the current crop. | |
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| Reality Check on 09:42 - Apr 26 with 2084 views | southnorfolkblue |
Personally I don’t believe we are a better team. We have individuals who are collectively and individually more talented but they are not imho a better team.
I think that’s the source of a lot of peoples frustration. We have spent a lot of money but havent really progressed. You’re right to make the point that expectations were very different 2 years ago and we went under the radar and we’re now there to be shot at, but frankly with the financial advantage that we have had, we should have been far more convincing.
Hopefully we will get over the line next week and we have a chance to make a better fist of our recruitment. Spending some money on positions other than wingers would be a good start! | |
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| Reality Check on 09:50 - Apr 26 with 2047 views | itfcsuth |
We’re not a better team than 23/24, not even close. Individually you could debate some players being as good, but as a team, a collective, it’s not even close.
We need more players if we go up this year than we did last time, considering last time was meant to be the prep and trial run, it’s quite a damming reflection of our recruitment process.
Lots of work to do in the summer, regardless of division. |  | | |
| Reality Check on 09:57 - Apr 26 with 2001 views | Blue_Armee |
| Reality Check on 01:32 - Apr 26 by TripSwitch |
Whether you actually misguidedly believe this, or are just trying to be contrarian for the attention, this is complete and utter BS, from start to finish.
The eye test alone could tell you that but as that can't be used as proof the stats clearly bear out that this side is much weaker than the 2023/24 side.
I could trot out many but to look at the one that matters:
2023 24 96 points after 46 games
2025 26 80 points after 44 games
So that totally disproves your argument, there's nothing more that needs saying. Not in the same league.
To further disprove it, you talk about Leeds bottling it based on a couple of games. No, the team that bottled it are Middlesbrough who were top and 7 points ahead of us in 3rd at that start of Feb, to then go on a glorious run of just 2 wins in 12 games including 6 games at home without winning. That's called bottling.
If you put this side in that 2023 24 season, with a maximum possible 86 points they would STATISTICALLY have finished 5th behind Leicester (97 points), superior Ipswich, (96 points) Leeds (90pts) and Southampton (87 pts)
There's a reality check for you, without even starting to go into the respective money spent on both sides.... [Post edited 26 Apr 1:39]
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It’s just my opinion but I think it’s the lack of the ability of our strikers to take chances. In the last promotion season we were confident if we went behind that we would create chances and would take one or two to get back in the game.
I don’t think that belief is there this season, Azon again yesterday as an example. We should not be relying on midfield players to score the majority of goals.
Anyway as I said might just be my opinion. | |
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| Reality Check on 09:58 - Apr 26 with 2000 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Reality Check on 09:50 - Apr 26 by itfcsuth |
We’re not a better team than 23/24, not even close. Individually you could debate some players being as good, but as a team, a collective, it’s not even close.
We need more players if we go up this year than we did last time, considering last time was meant to be the prep and trial run, it’s quite a damming reflection of our recruitment process.
Lots of work to do in the summer, regardless of division. |
If you look at what we finished the 23/24 season with, and compare that with now, imo we clearly have a better nucleus of players. Agree we need wholesale recruits for the PL, but we will start with a stronger foundation (looking as all aspects for the individuals - performance, potential and age; plus off-field infrastructure).
If we do get prompted, next year's KPI is easy to identify - finish higher in the league, and avoid relegation. Hopefully we're discussing that in 12 months time, and can continue to build from there. | | | |
| Reality Check on 10:15 - Apr 26 with 1926 views | Simonds92 |
| Reality Check on 02:15 - Apr 26 by quad |
I could argue that the overall points totals of the top 4 this season have been considerably lower than 23-24 season and all that your stats prove is that it has been a more competitive league this season and teams have been far more evenly matched.
All the top 4 teams were about 10 points better off than they are this season.
Ipswich goals against that season 57 versus 45 this season which proves we are far better defensively now than we were then.
Prior to Boro's last two winning games this season they have only won 2 games in their last 12.. Exactly the same as the 23-24 season then. So they have bottled it this season just as much as they bottled it back then. |
We also scored 17 more goals in 23/24.
Results wise we've done ok, fairly in line with what most of us expected this season. It's a completely different thing turning those expectations in to reality and credit to McKenna and the players for getting to where they are.
However, we are not an easy team to like at all. We're generally a horrible watch and hugely frustrating. Objectively, I'm expecting us to win on Saturday but I don't trust them to get it done the way that I knew the team from 2 years ago would make sure they got over the line against Huddersfield. This group doesn't seem mentally strong enough to deal with the pressure.
I don't buy the argument that the league is more competitive than it was 2 years ago, I think that's nonsense. Now Southampton have sorted themselves out they've demonstrated the standard of this division, 44 points from their last 20 games. | | | |
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