| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? 07:23 - May 20 with 2439 views | muccletonjoe |
Seems like they are saying we know we have done wrong but the punishment is too harsh . Can they honestly see the EFL overturning it and giving them a crack at a £200m game?
There is absolutely no chance of that happening , imo, more likely to get a 4 point deduction for every breach of rules |  | | |  |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:26 - May 20 with 1560 views | tonybied |
It's not the EFL. It's an independent panel, and one which will include different members to the first panel. In essence, don't rule out the punishment being changed! |  | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:28 - May 20 with 1547 views | muccletonjoe |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:26 - May 20 by tonybied |
It's not the EFL. It's an independent panel, and one which will include different members to the first panel. In essence, don't rule out the punishment being changed! |
I honestly cant see that happening. It would be a complete farce if it did. | | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:28 - May 20 with 1560 views | bsw72 |
They’ve been kicked out of a knockout competition for cheating, that’s the punishment. The consequence of winning that final game (by no means guaranteed) is not relevant. |  | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:35 - May 20 with 1472 views | GlasgowBlue |
It’s due process. They have every right to appeal the punishment so why wouldn’t they? Of course appeal may be deemed frivolous and the punishment increased, but equally the new panel could deem the punishment disproportionate and reinstate them. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:40 - May 20 with 1444 views | Nutkins_Return |
It's the punishment they are appealing as overly harsh. Can't see a way back for them to the playoffs final but I think they will be looking to reduce the point deduction for next season. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:46 - May 20 with 1394 views | djgooder |
They can’t just appeal. They need reasonable grounds for appeal.
They could appeal the size of the penalty, feeling it is too harsh.
Hence some said in another thread the EFL could then show leniency by removing next seasons 4 point deduction. Quite clever in a way if that was their thinking. |  | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 08:02 - May 20 with 1313 views | hype313 |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:35 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s due process. They have every right to appeal the punishment so why wouldn’t they? Of course appeal may be deemed frivolous and the punishment increased, but equally the new panel could deem the punishment disproportionate and reinstate them. |
They're bang to rights, its just a publicity stunt to try and placate the fans.
They should take their medicine, apologise profusely and fire all involved to try and get some credibility back. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 08:07 - May 20 with 1272 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 08:02 - May 20 by hype313 |
They're bang to rights, its just a publicity stunt to try and placate the fans.
They should take their medicine, apologise profusely and fire all involved to try and get some credibility back. |
Whether we like it or not the right to appeal is due process.
https://www.efl.com/news/2026/
“ Southampton has a right to appeal the Commission’s decision in accordance with EFL Regulations and the parties are working to try and resolve any appeal on Wednesday 20 May. Subject to the outcome, it could result in a further change to Saturday’s fixture” | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 08:23 - May 20 with 1204 views | hype313 |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 08:07 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Whether we like it or not the right to appeal is due process.
https://www.efl.com/news/2026/
“ Southampton has a right to appeal the Commission’s decision in accordance with EFL Regulations and the parties are working to try and resolve any appeal on Wednesday 20 May. Subject to the outcome, it could result in a further change to Saturday’s fixture” |
They do have a right to appeal, but myself, like lots of their fans just think it's futile, they have been caught with their hands in the till.
I just think they need to rebuild trust within the football community and their own fanbase, they won't want to bleed ST sales and lose all faith within Hampshire. | |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 08:27 - May 20 with 1177 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
They might get the points back but surely they wont get reinstated? What president would that set? We can all cheat and get away with it.
At least under the current system only Man C can get away with it |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 09:25 - May 20 with 981 views | ITFC_Forever |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:28 - May 20 by bsw72 |
They’ve been kicked out of a knockout competition for cheating, that’s the punishment. The consequence of winning that final game (by no means guaranteed) is not relevant. |
The consequence of winning that game is very relevant.
Hence the punishment. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 09:31 - May 20 with 958 views | Radlett_blue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:35 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s due process. They have every right to appeal the punishment so why wouldn’t they? Of course appeal may be deemed frivolous and the punishment increased, but equally the new panel could deem the punishment disproportionate and reinstate them. |
And with £100m+ on the line, Saints have very little to lose & a huge amount to gain by appealing. They will point to the precedent of Leeds being caught spying & only suffering a fine. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 09:31 - May 20 with 959 views | baxterbasics |
Am sure it's been said already but: whilst I have no sympathy for Southampton FC, this is really tough on those fans who got tickets to the final, booked hotel and travel, and so on. Terrible timing. Are the EFL/FA (or whoever oversees the match) even going to be able to organise the reallocation of tickets in time? |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:23 - May 20 with 894 views | Weekender |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 09:25 - May 20 by ITFC_Forever |
The consequence of winning that game is very relevant.
Hence the punishment. |
Not relevant in regulatory terms. Won’t have been a consideration. Precedent is Swindon being thrown out of the Vertu cup. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:34 - May 20 with 862 views | Guthrum |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 09:31 - May 20 by baxterbasics |
Am sure it's been said already but: whilst I have no sympathy for Southampton FC, this is really tough on those fans who got tickets to the final, booked hotel and travel, and so on. Terrible timing. Are the EFL/FA (or whoever oversees the match) even going to be able to organise the reallocation of tickets in time? |
Time is a problem. Not only is Wembley booked up, but players and staff need a break before pre-season, there may be some in World Cup squads and the transfer window is not so far ahead. Simply not possible to push it back much further.
Tribunals with barristers, solicitors and evidence-gathering take time to set up. Southampton are already complaining it was too quick. Thus everything gets compressed into the last few days before the Play-Off Final, which cannot go ahead until this is resolved.
Unfortunate, but pretty unavoidable given when this came to light. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:43 - May 20 with 813 views | Ryorry |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:34 - May 20 by Guthrum |
Time is a problem. Not only is Wembley booked up, but players and staff need a break before pre-season, there may be some in World Cup squads and the transfer window is not so far ahead. Simply not possible to push it back much further.
Tribunals with barristers, solicitors and evidence-gathering take time to set up. Southampton are already complaining it was too quick. Thus everything gets compressed into the last few days before the Play-Off Final, which cannot go ahead until this is resolved.
Unfortunate, but pretty unavoidable given when this came to light. |
Esp since Soton themselves chose to delay matters by asking for and being granted several days to carry out an “internal review”, no doubt in the devious hope that it would then encourage the EFL to hurry along a hasty decision in their favour because of all the immovable time pressures - Wembly dates, official end & start dates for leagues, players in World Cup etc. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:51 - May 20 with 788 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:23 - May 20 by Weekender |
Not relevant in regulatory terms. Won’t have been a consideration. Precedent is Swindon being thrown out of the Vertu cup. |
I think they should be kicked out but that is not very good precedent IMO. It is an entirely different offence, the only similarity is both teams broke a rule in a cup competition.
Swindon Town were expelled because they fielded two ineligible players during their last-16 victory against Luton Town. Ollie Clarke played 77 minutes of the match, while Aaron Drinan played the entire second half.
That had a direct impact on the match and outcome of the result, hence being kicked out.
Spying is an indirect activity and it's very difficult to quantify what impact that has on a game of football. They spied on Oxford and lost for example.
That is what Soton will be arguing today you'd have thought, as well as the fact this is obviously two legs instead of one as was the case in Swindon's case. | | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:21 - May 20 with 724 views | TVRBlue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 10:51 - May 20 by Bellevue_Blue |
I think they should be kicked out but that is not very good precedent IMO. It is an entirely different offence, the only similarity is both teams broke a rule in a cup competition.
Swindon Town were expelled because they fielded two ineligible players during their last-16 victory against Luton Town. Ollie Clarke played 77 minutes of the match, while Aaron Drinan played the entire second half.
That had a direct impact on the match and outcome of the result, hence being kicked out.
Spying is an indirect activity and it's very difficult to quantify what impact that has on a game of football. They spied on Oxford and lost for example.
That is what Soton will be arguing today you'd have thought, as well as the fact this is obviously two legs instead of one as was the case in Swindon's case. |
Surely it doesn't matter that spying is an indirect activity, or how much impact the spying had, or didn't have, on either leg of the play-off semi final matches.
The issue is that it is against the rules to spy on another club within 72 hours of a forthcoming match.
Southampton did this and are therefore guilty.
As someone else has said it's interesting that the other matches Southampton have admitted (perhaps deliberatley) spying for are Oxford and us, neither match they won, and two teams not in the Championship any more. I wonder if they spied on anyone else, won those games, denying other teams from getting points that may have enabled them to gain promotion either automatically or via the play-offs. |  | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:43 - May 20 with 660 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:21 - May 20 by TVRBlue |
Surely it doesn't matter that spying is an indirect activity, or how much impact the spying had, or didn't have, on either leg of the play-off semi final matches.
The issue is that it is against the rules to spy on another club within 72 hours of a forthcoming match.
Southampton did this and are therefore guilty.
As someone else has said it's interesting that the other matches Southampton have admitted (perhaps deliberatley) spying for are Oxford and us, neither match they won, and two teams not in the Championship any more. I wonder if they spied on anyone else, won those games, denying other teams from getting points that may have enabled them to gain promotion either automatically or via the play-offs. |
Of course it does if you are going to expel a team. What the EFL are essentially saying is the offence created such an advantage that the only course of action is to forget about the games played and remove them. But that 'advantage' is unquantifiable, you can argue forever about the impact it actually made on the two games of football. The impact of fielding an ineligible player cannot be argued.
If the punishment is specific to the '72 hours of a forthcoming match' then Southampton will rightfully argue there was no infringement on the rules as it relates to the second leg.
There is not question they are guilty, but a question around how you enforce the rules and the correct punishment.
They definitely did it all year long, but it's an incredibly difficult case that will no doubt be played out for months and months to come regardless of the outcome of today. [Post edited 20 May 11:44]
| | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:48 - May 20 with 638 views | Weekender |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:21 - May 20 by TVRBlue |
Surely it doesn't matter that spying is an indirect activity, or how much impact the spying had, or didn't have, on either leg of the play-off semi final matches.
The issue is that it is against the rules to spy on another club within 72 hours of a forthcoming match.
Southampton did this and are therefore guilty.
As someone else has said it's interesting that the other matches Southampton have admitted (perhaps deliberatley) spying for are Oxford and us, neither match they won, and two teams not in the Championship any more. I wonder if they spied on anyone else, won those games, denying other teams from getting points that may have enabled them to gain promotion either automatically or via the play-offs. |
The point in your final paragraph is interesting. They appear to have admitted to spying during the regular season only where there were no adverse consequences for the opposition: Oxford won the game and Ipswich were promoted.
It seems unlikely these were the only incidents. Perhaps they admitted the Oxford/Ipswich matters because there was limited, or no, scope for legal action arising from them. Alternatively, there may have been evidence of those two incidents, meaning they had charges to answer, or they admitted them in the hope that doing so would mitigate the penalty.
My suspicion is that the expulsion was the punishment for the Boro spying, while the four-point deduction relates to the Oxford/Ipswich spying. As these are two separate competitions in a regulatory sense, that may explain the two separate sanctions. | |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:52 - May 20 with 622 views | lowhouseblue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:35 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s due process. They have every right to appeal the punishment so why wouldn’t they? Of course appeal may be deemed frivolous and the punishment increased, but equally the new panel could deem the punishment disproportionate and reinstate them. |
i assume that the efl have been heavily lawered up and believe it is robust. but the potential for this descending into farce and chaos is certainly there. in terms of proportionality i guess it is a question of proportional to what? i have no idea how sports law works. is it proportional to the punishment for other rule breaches? there doesn't seem to be any direct comparator - so what rule do you compare this one to? is it proportional to the advantage gained - the advantage was close to zero so that would be harder to argue.
if i was southampton i'd be challenging the fairness of the appeal process - less than 24 hours to prepare their case. if the criteria being applied to determine proportionality are new or complex that seems unfair. clearly the final a few days away makes the circumstances exceptional, but can you really hear an appeal less than 24 hours after publishing the decision? this has potential to run and run - if the appeal panel confirms the decision you can imagine an injunction to stop the final. and it ends up in court after the final how would it all ever be unpicked. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:52 - May 20 with 621 views | vilanovablue |
I think they have admitted to what they can get away with and in games where the spying didn't really impact the result. I suspect it runs much deeper than they are admitting. Whilst I feel for the fans and I was chatting to one last night he admitted we have cheated we're getting what we deserve, he's angry with the club not the decision. Personally I think they are getting off lightly as it stands. |  | | |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:52 - May 20 with 620 views | Weekender |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:43 - May 20 by Bellevue_Blue |
Of course it does if you are going to expel a team. What the EFL are essentially saying is the offence created such an advantage that the only course of action is to forget about the games played and remove them. But that 'advantage' is unquantifiable, you can argue forever about the impact it actually made on the two games of football. The impact of fielding an ineligible player cannot be argued.
If the punishment is specific to the '72 hours of a forthcoming match' then Southampton will rightfully argue there was no infringement on the rules as it relates to the second leg.
There is not question they are guilty, but a question around how you enforce the rules and the correct punishment.
They definitely did it all year long, but it's an incredibly difficult case that will no doubt be played out for months and months to come regardless of the outcome of today. [Post edited 20 May 11:44]
|
Its not about the extent of the advantage arising from the infringement, its the extent of the infringement that is under consideration.
I don't agree that the impact of fielding an ineligible player cannot be argued. To quantify that you would need to know what would have happened if that player had not played and a an eligible player had played in their place. | |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:59 - May 20 with 584 views | Pinewoodblue |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 07:35 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s due process. They have every right to appeal the punishment so why wouldn’t they? Of course appeal may be deemed frivolous and the punishment increased, but equally the new panel could deem the punishment disproportionate and reinstate them. |
Especially if they come clean and admit they spied, or attempted to Spy, on other clubs.
Middlesbrough really ought to be involved in the appeal process and be able to question the evidence. |  |
| |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 12:01 - May 20 with 578 views | Ryorry |
| How can southampton appeal when they have admitted their offences ? on 11:52 - May 20 by lowhouseblue |
i assume that the efl have been heavily lawered up and believe it is robust. but the potential for this descending into farce and chaos is certainly there. in terms of proportionality i guess it is a question of proportional to what? i have no idea how sports law works. is it proportional to the punishment for other rule breaches? there doesn't seem to be any direct comparator - so what rule do you compare this one to? is it proportional to the advantage gained - the advantage was close to zero so that would be harder to argue.
if i was southampton i'd be challenging the fairness of the appeal process - less than 24 hours to prepare their case. if the criteria being applied to determine proportionality are new or complex that seems unfair. clearly the final a few days away makes the circumstances exceptional, but can you really hear an appeal less than 24 hours after publishing the decision? this has potential to run and run - if the appeal panel confirms the decision you can imagine an injunction to stop the final. and it ends up in court after the final how would it all ever be unpicked. |
Soton themselves delayed the process by asking, completely deviously imo (ie hoping that immovable time pressures would force the EFL into a hasty decision which favoured them) for several days, to "conduct an internal review". Complete joke.
And as Guthers pointed out on another thread, the bog-standard penalty if any club is found to have gained illicit advantage in any game, is for their opponents to be awarded a 3-0 win. Which would have put Boro through to the final on aggregate anyway. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
