| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs 12:17 - Jul 21 with 5226 views | jasondozzell |
A lot of United supporters on twitter talking about how season tickets being removed for smallest thing.
It's really worrying how the US sports model doesn't care for loyal supporters who have travelled for years.
It's already going on here with price hikes.
But if you turn football into an anaemic concert/Harry Potter World type experience then it will lose the thing that makes it so exciting.
Really don't think it's great that we've got so much American money now in the game, even if we have benefited.
You watch the Keegan footage and it's like another world. |  | | |  |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:23 - Jul 21 with 3923 views | NthQldITFC |
Unfettered capitalism spells death for every system it touches. |  |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:25 - Jul 21 with 3900 views | jasondozzell |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:23 - Jul 21 by NthQldITFC |
Unfettered capitalism spells death for every system it touches. |
Yep. It ruins everything.
'Hydration break sponsored by Powerade' - F OFF! | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:32 - Jul 21 with 3832 views | _CliveBaker_ |
Its only going to get worse. My mate is a lifelong Man City supporter and he reckons its dire at the Etihad. Loads of day trippers more interested in getting selfies for Instagram than actually supporting a team, none of them know their Shaun Goater's from their Paul Dickov's. I can't see ITFC being exposed to that in a big way any time soon, we don't have anywhere near enough of a brand and the geographical location doesn't lend itself to day trippers, but the top 4 and bigger London clubs are certainly heading that way.
The recent World Cup is good example, England Supporters club got some tickets, but the majority are sold at ridiculous prices to, in many cases, people who couldn't give a hoot. Nothing new really, top tier football is increasingly less about the fans and all about the money. The supporters are there to be milked, and create some level of atmosphere to enhance the spectacle for overseas viewers.
Its sad really, my hope is that smaller clubs can capitalise on it and attract more people through the door with a very different and more pure matchday experience. If Old Trafford is full of tourists, we're for the locals. £100 a ticket there, £10 here. Let them crack on with their VAR, we'll stick to a ref and 2 linos. They can charge £8 for a pint of warm piss from a vending machine, we'll charge £4 for a proper pint. I know where I'd rather spend a Saturday afternoon.
Football isn't broken as a sport, but the industry of it stinks. |  | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:37 - Jul 21 with 3776 views | jasondozzell |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:32 - Jul 21 by _CliveBaker_ |
Its only going to get worse. My mate is a lifelong Man City supporter and he reckons its dire at the Etihad. Loads of day trippers more interested in getting selfies for Instagram than actually supporting a team, none of them know their Shaun Goater's from their Paul Dickov's. I can't see ITFC being exposed to that in a big way any time soon, we don't have anywhere near enough of a brand and the geographical location doesn't lend itself to day trippers, but the top 4 and bigger London clubs are certainly heading that way.
The recent World Cup is good example, England Supporters club got some tickets, but the majority are sold at ridiculous prices to, in many cases, people who couldn't give a hoot. Nothing new really, top tier football is increasingly less about the fans and all about the money. The supporters are there to be milked, and create some level of atmosphere to enhance the spectacle for overseas viewers.
Its sad really, my hope is that smaller clubs can capitalise on it and attract more people through the door with a very different and more pure matchday experience. If Old Trafford is full of tourists, we're for the locals. £100 a ticket there, £10 here. Let them crack on with their VAR, we'll stick to a ref and 2 linos. They can charge £8 for a pint of warm piss from a vending machine, we'll charge £4 for a proper pint. I know where I'd rather spend a Saturday afternoon.
Football isn't broken as a sport, but the industry of it stinks. |
Completely agree.
It's happening to all sports too. The number of influencers at Wimbledon etc.
I think you're right that it might be an advantage for us. We're still a proper club (just!). Hopefully we can avoid the worst of all this nonsense.
My hope is that the bubble does eventually burst. If it does, perhaps football can go back to being what it was in its heyday.
They can market it all they want but 'customers' have no loyalty and will drop the 'product' as soon as it suits them.
They take real fans for granted at their peril. | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:45 - Jul 21 with 3642 views | Illinoisblue |
A general observation on Americans going to sporting events; they see it exactly as that, an event, a thing to do. Could be a movie, the theatre, a theme park, or a game. It’s something to do. Largely because of the franchise system, folks aren’t as invested in a team the way fans in Europe are. I’ve seen fans at baseball sit and talk and eat and drink for three hours straight. They may or may not know who’s playing.
This is something of an over simplification, and there are plenty of diehard fans in america. Bit have no doubt American owners see clubs as an entertainment vehicle to make money. |  |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:49 - Jul 21 with 3578 views | urbanpenguin |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:37 - Jul 21 by jasondozzell |
Completely agree.
It's happening to all sports too. The number of influencers at Wimbledon etc.
I think you're right that it might be an advantage for us. We're still a proper club (just!). Hopefully we can avoid the worst of all this nonsense.
My hope is that the bubble does eventually burst. If it does, perhaps football can go back to being what it was in its heyday.
They can market it all they want but 'customers' have no loyalty and will drop the 'product' as soon as it suits them.
They take real fans for granted at their peril. |
Exactly. It was one of the underlying points in my blog post recently:
https://www.twtd.co.uk/blogs/2 [Post edited 21 Jul 12:49]
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:49 - Jul 21 with 3567 views | NBVJohn |
I don’t necessarily disagree with you but I’m curious to know in which era you believe football had its heyday? |  | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:53 - Jul 21 with 3520 views | jasondozzell |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:49 - Jul 21 by NBVJohn |
I don’t necessarily disagree with you but I’m curious to know in which era you believe football had its heyday? |
Probably the period all the way up to 2010 or so.
I think for most things the 21st century has been a disaster - art, music, culture, television etc. football included! | | | |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:58 - Jul 21 with 3454 views | DJR |
Interestingly, my son who supports Ipswich and Everton but doesn't have enough away points has got through the Everton website a premium ticket for our away game on 19 September at the cost of £99.
Tickets are available for all teams in a particular section of the ground but are obviously much higher for the bigger clubs, and there is absolutely no check of any sort carried out. [Post edited 21 Jul 13:08]
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:59 - Jul 21 with 3400 views | jasondozzell |
Fantastic blog post! Beautifully written. You are spot on. | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:59 - Jul 21 with 3401 views | DarkBrandon |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:53 - Jul 21 by jasondozzell |
Probably the period all the way up to 2010 or so.
I think for most things the 21st century has been a disaster - art, music, culture, television etc. football included! |
Once you take out the period with the racism and the violence that shorten the golden years somewhat |  | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 13:04 - Jul 21 with 3334 views | DJR |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:53 - Jul 21 by jasondozzell |
Probably the period all the way up to 2010 or so.
I think for most things the 21st century has been a disaster - art, music, culture, television etc. football included! |
For me the rot started around 1980 when away teams in the top division stopped getting a cut of the home gate receipts.
And my understanding is that, despite what one might think, some US sports are much more egalitarian because they allow the lesser teams to get first pick of college stars. [Post edited 21 Jul 13:06]
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 13:14 - Jul 21 with 3145 views | MattinLondon |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 13:04 - Jul 21 by DJR |
For me the rot started around 1980 when away teams in the top division stopped getting a cut of the home gate receipts.
And my understanding is that, despite what one might think, some US sports are much more egalitarian because they allow the lesser teams to get first pick of college stars. [Post edited 21 Jul 13:06]
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I remember hearing the term ‘sports socialism’ in terms of US sports - the better young players go to the worst performing teams so that a sense of on-field equality is maintained - I might well be over simplifying things.
Football/soccer is the ultimate capitalist sport. The better clubs get the better players and get a lot more money than the poorest clubs. Saying that, if Mansfield somehow have a few fantastic transfer windows that could well propel them to the PL. Whereas if a team like Leicester get things spectacular wrong, they go down the leagues quite quickly. |  | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 13:58 - Jul 21 with 2902 views | stonojnr |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:32 - Jul 21 by _CliveBaker_ |
Its only going to get worse. My mate is a lifelong Man City supporter and he reckons its dire at the Etihad. Loads of day trippers more interested in getting selfies for Instagram than actually supporting a team, none of them know their Shaun Goater's from their Paul Dickov's. I can't see ITFC being exposed to that in a big way any time soon, we don't have anywhere near enough of a brand and the geographical location doesn't lend itself to day trippers, but the top 4 and bigger London clubs are certainly heading that way.
The recent World Cup is good example, England Supporters club got some tickets, but the majority are sold at ridiculous prices to, in many cases, people who couldn't give a hoot. Nothing new really, top tier football is increasingly less about the fans and all about the money. The supporters are there to be milked, and create some level of atmosphere to enhance the spectacle for overseas viewers.
Its sad really, my hope is that smaller clubs can capitalise on it and attract more people through the door with a very different and more pure matchday experience. If Old Trafford is full of tourists, we're for the locals. £100 a ticket there, £10 here. Let them crack on with their VAR, we'll stick to a ref and 2 linos. They can charge £8 for a pint of warm piss from a vending machine, we'll charge £4 for a proper pint. I know where I'd rather spend a Saturday afternoon.
Football isn't broken as a sport, but the industry of it stinks. |
we covered this last season we were in the Prem, we absolutely do attract day trippers, because remember your view is theyd only come to Town to see Ipswich.
whereas theyre actually coming to see a premier league game live for one thing and it doesnt matter that its Ipswich playing, its going to be a game against another Premiership team, like a Man Utd or an Arsenal or a Liverpool...or a Hull :)
but they get to watch a premier league game and thats all theyre interested in, they have a very superficial interest in the teams themselves, its all about the experience of just watching live sport to them, and then encapsulating it in pixels on their social media channels. | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 14:00 - Jul 21 with 2865 views | redrickstuhaart |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 13:14 - Jul 21 by MattinLondon |
I remember hearing the term ‘sports socialism’ in terms of US sports - the better young players go to the worst performing teams so that a sense of on-field equality is maintained - I might well be over simplifying things.
Football/soccer is the ultimate capitalist sport. The better clubs get the better players and get a lot more money than the poorest clubs. Saying that, if Mansfield somehow have a few fantastic transfer windows that could well propel them to the PL. Whereas if a team like Leicester get things spectacular wrong, they go down the leagues quite quickly. |
In principle it sounds a nice idea.
In practice it really impacts the identity of your club, makes academies superfluous and means that players are stuck with choices that may not be best for them or to sit out, or move abroad. | |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 14:37 - Jul 21 with 2659 views | Illinoisblue |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:37 - Jul 21 by jasondozzell |
Completely agree.
It's happening to all sports too. The number of influencers at Wimbledon etc.
I think you're right that it might be an advantage for us. We're still a proper club (just!). Hopefully we can avoid the worst of all this nonsense.
My hope is that the bubble does eventually burst. If it does, perhaps football can go back to being what it was in its heyday.
They can market it all they want but 'customers' have no loyalty and will drop the 'product' as soon as it suits them.
They take real fans for granted at their peril. |
Influencers need to be punched and hounded out. | |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 14:55 - Jul 21 with 2542 views | bluelagos |
Town clearly chasing tourists too - why else invest how they have in lounges/hospitality offers? Think I counted 8 offers in the latest brochure...
Problem is - day trippers and corporate types are never going to be generating the atmosphere ordinary fans do and so the decline in the atmosphere at Portman Rd continues.
Speak to fans of Chelsea / Arsenal / Liverpool / Man U and many are clear how the gentrification of football has not just seen wealthier fans attending, it is now a chunk of match day attendance reserved for / taken by tourists who add nothing (other than extra spend) all while ordinary fans are priced out.
Pace has really picked up under Gamechanger - venture capitalist owners who know sfa about football from what I can tell (Other than as a vehicle to make lots of money)
And a CEO who does little to engage with the one group of fans working hard to make at atmosphere Portman Rd.
Not sure when the fan base wakes up - but many towen fans were blown away at how crp the atmosphere was at a fair few away grounds in the Prem. Yet it's a path we are seemingly on... |  |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:00 - Jul 21 with 2508 views | Mullet |
The clubs will argue though that there are hundreds of people who have kept/ inherited season tickets and simply use them as a source of income.
I didn’t hear a single Scouse accent walking into Anfield that wasn’t a staff member etc. on the train home people from much further away than me all there as home fans. Clubs are going to want to monetise that and take all the cash.
Thats why people hoarding away points etc and sharing accounts around are going to bring it in at Ipswich. It’s the perfect excuse for the club. |  |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:00 - Jul 21 with 2499 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 13:58 - Jul 21 by stonojnr |
we covered this last season we were in the Prem, we absolutely do attract day trippers, because remember your view is theyd only come to Town to see Ipswich.
whereas theyre actually coming to see a premier league game live for one thing and it doesnt matter that its Ipswich playing, its going to be a game against another Premiership team, like a Man Utd or an Arsenal or a Liverpool...or a Hull :)
but they get to watch a premier league game and thats all theyre interested in, they have a very superficial interest in the teams themselves, its all about the experience of just watching live sport to them, and then encapsulating it in pixels on their social media channels. |
Don't think that was with me.
We don't have anywhere near the level of top clubs was my point, hence the 'in a big way'. I suppose you could always make an argument for day trippers since forever, hence attendances for playoff matches and derby games have always been higher than Morecambe on a Tuesday night, but we don't have anything like the level of football tourism other clubs do, and that's not likely to change any time soon. | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:12 - Jul 21 with 2413 views | bluelagos |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:00 - Jul 21 by _CliveBaker_ |
Don't think that was with me.
We don't have anywhere near the level of top clubs was my point, hence the 'in a big way'. I suppose you could always make an argument for day trippers since forever, hence attendances for playoff matches and derby games have always been higher than Morecambe on a Tuesday night, but we don't have anything like the level of football tourism other clubs do, and that's not likely to change any time soon. |
I think the direction of travel is there. The club have invested in hospitality offers that are available to those who can't get tickets ordinarily.
These are way in excess of normal match day prices - but if you are flying in from Scandanavia or happen to be over from the States/Japan and only have one weekend to take in a match - these tickets look appealing.
And us not being in London - a blessing with regards to the fact many London visitors will search out nearer options rather than Portman Rd.
So agree we don't have it as bad as many clubs - but I think Towen are doing all they can to change that. | |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:17 - Jul 21 with 2379 views | Billywitch |
I believe that post the Farage/Ashton stuff we have supporters at ITFC that wont be returning to PR, retaining their ST but distributing them to others (rightly or wrongly, that's not up for discussion here) but it leaves those people open to have their ST taken off them if ITFC ran a check on who is using the tickets. | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:40 - Jul 21 with 2265 views | OldFart71 |
The American way is to make a game an experience rather than just the game itself. Whether it will ever come to popcorn and drinks whilst the match is on with the old style usherettes walking around with a tray carrying all sorts of goodies remains to be seen. Perhaps they'll have ice cream tubs with little wooden spoons and little plastic containers with Kiora orange drink. Just like recycling, back to the 50's and 60's where you took your fizzy drink bottles back to the pub and got 2d for them. (2d is the old 2 pence before decimalisation) | | | |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 15:41 - Jul 21 with 2266 views | Len_Brennan |
I met up with old work mates for the Spurs away game the season before last, so was in with the home fans. One of the others had arranged the tickets for me & another non STH. It was the home section insofar as those around me were supporting Spurs, but I felt that everyone there, for rows & rows, were tourists. The money being spent in the club shop was breathtaking, a lot of which was clearly being brought home for others.
The value to the club on matchdays, of a pair of tourists v a season ticket holder & perhaps a concession, who would take up the same 2 seats, will be in hundreds of pounds. Cold hard economics at work; the game as we knew it, is over. | |
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| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 16:03 - Jul 21 with 2176 views | HighgateBlue |
| 'Legacy' fans being chased out of clubs on 12:59 - Jul 21 by DarkBrandon |
Once you take out the period with the racism and the violence that shorten the golden years somewhat |
Indeed.
And if that leaves you with the first decade (at a push) of the Premier League as the golden years, that's fine, but the fuse was already lit.
It would be like taking out a huge loan, spending it all on a great party, then grumbling when you have to pay it back that things are not as fun as they were during the party. |  | | |
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