| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans 12:24 - Sep 26 with 2420 views | Crawfordsboot |
Whether you support Town, some other side, or City, its worth reflecting that there are three key constituencies here.
Firstly supporters, most of whom support their club through the good and the bad years that all clubs go through. Rivalries exist but most fans respect great football when they see it, whether it’s played by their team or the opposition.
Secondly the players and staff (backroom, caterers, cleaners etc) employed by clubs. All are employees but many will have a club affinity.
These two constituencies are rightly proud of any success achieved by their team. City staff and supporters will have been overjoyed at the success brought to them by their wonderful teams and players of recent years. This success can’t be taken away. Quite simply they were the best.
It is the third group the executive management and ownership who have betrayed Man City fans and indeed all football fans everywhere. They appear to have wilfully misled the authorities at every turn and attempted to deny the evidence as they indulge in sports washing with total disregard for the rules that others have had to play by.
Front and central to the resolution of this scandal should be the use of the “fit and proper integrity test” of the ownership. They would surely fall at the first hurdle! Then the financial consequences that follow should be severe so as to dissuade others from trying to game the rules. Compensation for those clubs that have lost out will be difficult to quantify. How much should go to a premiership side that just missed out on European qualification, or to a European side that failed to reach the next round after a loss to City.
This mess is going to take years to clean up but today i feel some sympathy for the generations of City fans who remember Summerbee, Colin Bell and Frannie Lee and have supported their team through both lean years, and during recent glories. Their clubs reputation is now stained and in tatters. We at Town are so lucky to have a history of Ramsey, Crawford & Phillips, Robson, Muhren & Thysen, and more recently McKenna. |  | | |  |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 12:38 - Sep 26 with 2006 views | Bugs |
"These two constituencies are rightly proud of any success achieved by their team. City staff and supporters will have been overjoyed at the success brought to them by their wonderful teams and players of recent years. This success can’t be taken away. Quite simply they were the best."
That success can be taken away; it was a success built on cheating. Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his Tour de France wins after his cheating was exposed. He was quite simply the best as well. |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 13:53 - Sep 26 with 1810 views | muccletonjoe |
You cant extol the virtues of any team who have played outside of the rules, who is to say that any of their opponents would have been beaten if they had operated under similar conditions. The fault , very clearly , should be laid at the doors of the owners and the board who conducted their financial affairs. They may well have put the club out of business entirely with the amount of money involved around the Premier league. The lawsuits involved are quite mind boggling and the worst case scenario for the club would bankrupt them. |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 13:56 - Sep 26 with 1799 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Also sad that the legacy clubs have ring fenced their position, and the Premier League will become even more sterile.
If they are guilty, City deserve punishment.
BUT, there should be a legitimate way for clubs to invest, grow and challenge the establishment.
Remember the original FFP rules were initiated by the established giant European clubs (G14) to prevent City (and any other clubs who may follow) challenging them. [Post edited 26 Sep 13:57]
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 13:58 - Sep 26 with 1779 views | ReusersTown |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 12:38 - Sep 26 by Bugs |
"These two constituencies are rightly proud of any success achieved by their team. City staff and supporters will have been overjoyed at the success brought to them by their wonderful teams and players of recent years. This success can’t be taken away. Quite simply they were the best."
That success can be taken away; it was a success built on cheating. Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his Tour de France wins after his cheating was exposed. He was quite simply the best as well. |
Yeah, I've no idea what he's on about. Being the best and the success is entirely based on them creating an uneven playing field by cheating, if it had no impact there would be no point in the rules in the first place. |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:05 - Sep 26 with 1757 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Can you imagine the diplomatic fall out of the FA announced that the ruler of one of the Gulf States (or in the case of Newcastle United, Saudi Arabia) had failed a "fit and proper person" test?
The only way to avoid that would have been if only British citizens could own British teams.
And we would be playing Accrington Stanley this afternoon. | | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:18 - Sep 26 with 1706 views | franz_tyson |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 13:56 - Sep 26 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Also sad that the legacy clubs have ring fenced their position, and the Premier League will become even more sterile.
If they are guilty, City deserve punishment.
BUT, there should be a legitimate way for clubs to invest, grow and challenge the establishment.
Remember the original FFP rules were initiated by the established giant European clubs (G14) to prevent City (and any other clubs who may follow) challenging them. [Post edited 26 Sep 13:57]
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Good point.
Going back a few years we had the European Super League debacle and that idea was binned. And that seemed a win for football. But, now, I think I'd be quite happy for the top six or so clubs to f#ck off and join an European / Saudi Super League.
I think I'd enjoy a restyled English Div 1 League more without the elite clubs anyway.
These elite clubs now don't really care about the English fans anymore anyway. They need global fans to fund them so they might as well play League games abroad.
I know the EPL is fantastic quality, but I'd rather watch the Championship games as they're more competitive and you tend to see more home-grown players. | | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:24 - Sep 26 with 1686 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 12:38 - Sep 26 by Bugs |
"These two constituencies are rightly proud of any success achieved by their team. City staff and supporters will have been overjoyed at the success brought to them by their wonderful teams and players of recent years. This success can’t be taken away. Quite simply they were the best."
That success can be taken away; it was a success built on cheating. Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his Tour de France wins after his cheating was exposed. He was quite simply the best as well. |
Add to that the sprinter Marion Jones - after she admitted cheating (doping) all her achievements were annulled. |  |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:32 - Sep 26 with 1631 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:18 - Sep 26 by franz_tyson |
Good point.
Going back a few years we had the European Super League debacle and that idea was binned. And that seemed a win for football. But, now, I think I'd be quite happy for the top six or so clubs to f#ck off and join an European / Saudi Super League.
I think I'd enjoy a restyled English Div 1 League more without the elite clubs anyway.
These elite clubs now don't really care about the English fans anymore anyway. They need global fans to fund them so they might as well play League games abroad.
I know the EPL is fantastic quality, but I'd rather watch the Championship games as they're more competitive and you tend to see more home-grown players. |
Agreed. I said at the time, I would be happy for a Super League to happen, so long as those teams left the PL in order to join it. | |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:07 - Sep 26 with 1532 views | Illinoisblue |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:32 - Sep 26 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Agreed. I said at the time, I would be happy for a Super League to happen, so long as those teams left the PL in order to join it. |
Exactly this. If those “elite” clubs want to join a super league, fk off and do it. Abandon all your history to go play Madrid and PSG 10 times a year in front of a soulless and vacant crowd of influencers and tourists. |  |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:14 - Sep 26 with 1502 views | lowhouseblue |
what about the fans of other teams who might have had some of that success if city hadn't cheated? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:43 - Sep 26 with 1434 views | Mullet |
Nah fcuk em. Having lived amongst them they as bad as any of them in my experience. Completely forgotten where they came from, or the fact they are worse than Man United when it comes to being everything they hated about United. |  |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:44 - Sep 26 with 1421 views | J2BLUE |
Yea, they are the victims really. Poor City. |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:02 - Sep 26 with 1362 views | Crawfordsboot |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 12:38 - Sep 26 by Bugs |
"These two constituencies are rightly proud of any success achieved by their team. City staff and supporters will have been overjoyed at the success brought to them by their wonderful teams and players of recent years. This success can’t be taken away. Quite simply they were the best."
That success can be taken away; it was a success built on cheating. Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his Tour de France wins after his cheating was exposed. He was quite simply the best as well. |
Your argument is flawed. Armstrong was an athlete whose physical capacity was drug driven. Without drugs he was not simply the best.His results were rightfully annulled. The City players did nothing wrong individually they were excellent footballers. They were the best of the best and as footballers they deserve full respect for that. Individually and as a group they were not cheats. They achieved a phenomenal standard of football.
On the other hand the executive and ownership at City have been exposed as cheats. That is the tragedy for football, especially so for the city fans and players. It is not of their making | | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:08 - Sep 26 with 1342 views | Crawfordsboot |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:14 - Sep 26 by lowhouseblue |
what about the fans of other teams who might have had some of that success if city hadn't cheated? |
Err! - I think the heading covers it with “a sad day for all football fans” | | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:23 - Sep 26 with 1272 views | Crawfordsboot |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 14:24 - Sep 26 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Add to that the sprinter Marion Jones - after she admitted cheating (doping) all her achievements were annulled. |
See my repose below re Lance Armstrong. | | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:33 - Sep 26 with 1238 views | Kievthegreat |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:02 - Sep 26 by Crawfordsboot |
Your argument is flawed. Armstrong was an athlete whose physical capacity was drug driven. Without drugs he was not simply the best.His results were rightfully annulled. The City players did nothing wrong individually they were excellent footballers. They were the best of the best and as footballers they deserve full respect for that. Individually and as a group they were not cheats. They achieved a phenomenal standard of football.
On the other hand the executive and ownership at City have been exposed as cheats. That is the tragedy for football, especially so for the city fans and players. It is not of their making |
But players don't win leagues trophies. If I Google Premier League winners, it doesn't say Haaland and Co, it says Manchester City.
To reuse your analogy:
'Man City was a team whose playing ability was financially driven. Without financial doping, they were not simply the best. Their results will be rightfully annulled.' |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:41 - Sep 26 with 1207 views | BlueBoots |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:02 - Sep 26 by Crawfordsboot |
Your argument is flawed. Armstrong was an athlete whose physical capacity was drug driven. Without drugs he was not simply the best.His results were rightfully annulled. The City players did nothing wrong individually they were excellent footballers. They were the best of the best and as footballers they deserve full respect for that. Individually and as a group they were not cheats. They achieved a phenomenal standard of football.
On the other hand the executive and ownership at City have been exposed as cheats. That is the tragedy for football, especially so for the city fans and players. It is not of their making |
"The City players did nothing wrong individually they were excellent footballers. They were the best of the best and as footballers they deserve full respect for that. Individually and as a group they were not cheats. They achieved a phenomenal standard of football."
Can't argue with any of that statement, but it would have been impossible to pay the fees to build that squad, pay the wages and bonuses to hold on to those players, and attract the very best in coaching staff without cheating the system. Regardless of how impressive their achievements were, they would have none of them without gaming the system and trying to get away with it.
Football is a team game (well, a squad game now), and although you can argue the players did nothing wrong, the squad was built through cheating. |  |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:59 - Sep 26 with 1150 views | bluefunk |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:02 - Sep 26 by Crawfordsboot |
Your argument is flawed. Armstrong was an athlete whose physical capacity was drug driven. Without drugs he was not simply the best.His results were rightfully annulled. The City players did nothing wrong individually they were excellent footballers. They were the best of the best and as footballers they deserve full respect for that. Individually and as a group they were not cheats. They achieved a phenomenal standard of football.
On the other hand the executive and ownership at City have been exposed as cheats. That is the tragedy for football, especially so for the city fans and players. It is not of their making |
You can’t separate the team on the pitch from the method used to assemble it.
As an simple and single example, Haaland may not have been a Man City player without the financial “doping”, and while he is completely innocent, had they not had his phenomenal goalscoring (and had to rely on Jesus for example) it’s much less likely they would have won as much.
Now consider the financial muscle used to attract and retain others (eg Rodri, De Bruyne, Silva) some of whom were stockpiled/retained to prevent others signing them (e.g. Phillips, Grealish) which would not have been possible without the financial doping.
To use you analogy, Man City were a team whose collective abilities were driven by financial doping, therefore the comparison is apt. |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 17:01 - Sep 26 with 1148 views | Guthrum |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 16:02 - Sep 26 by Crawfordsboot |
Your argument is flawed. Armstrong was an athlete whose physical capacity was drug driven. Without drugs he was not simply the best.His results were rightfully annulled. The City players did nothing wrong individually they were excellent footballers. They were the best of the best and as footballers they deserve full respect for that. Individually and as a group they were not cheats. They achieved a phenomenal standard of football.
On the other hand the executive and ownership at City have been exposed as cheats. That is the tragedy for football, especially so for the city fans and players. It is not of their making |
Except that they achieved their success as part of a team which was illegitimately assembled. Would they have matched those trophies and titles had they not been surrounded by colleagues hired beyond the limits allowed by the football authorities?
The players did not personally transgress, but they have benefitted from ManC breaking the rules. |  |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 17:26 - Sep 26 with 1110 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:07 - Sep 26 by Illinoisblue |
Exactly this. If those “elite” clubs want to join a super league, fk off and do it. Abandon all your history to go play Madrid and PSG 10 times a year in front of a soulless and vacant crowd of influencers and tourists. |
100%. | |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 18:10 - Sep 26 with 1028 views | armchaircritic59 |
It always comes down the same thing. It's the generations of supporters who have/still do, support their team, are in the end the ones that suffer the most. They play no part in any financial shenanigans, but bare the brunt of any fallout, by having their clubs dragged through the mud. The same goes for non financial misdemeanors of course too. |  | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 18:21 - Sep 26 with 1002 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 15:14 - Sep 26 by lowhouseblue |
what about the fans of other teams who might have had some of that success if city hadn't cheated? |
I cant really feel sorry for the rich, big spending clubs who missed out. | |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 20:36 - Sep 26 with 860 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 18:10 - Sep 26 by armchaircritic59 |
It always comes down the same thing. It's the generations of supporters who have/still do, support their team, are in the end the ones that suffer the most. They play no part in any financial shenanigans, but bare the brunt of any fallout, by having their clubs dragged through the mud. The same goes for non financial misdemeanors of course too. |
Whilst there’s no quantitive evidence as yet to prove this one way or the other, there are reports in the media based on phone-ins, social media analysis, etc that a substantial number are uncritical of the club. A case of success at any cost?
One such quote :
” Defiance and Support: A significant portion of the fanbase continues to reject the findings, aligning with the club's leadership and defiant open letters from chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak maintaining the club's absolute innocence. Many view the charges as an attack on their modern success by external rivals and governing bodies.” | | | |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 20:59 - Sep 26 with 842 views | ITFC_Forever |
As Brian Clough was depicted as saying in the film the Damned United “you can take all your medals and trophies that you’ve won and throw them in the bin as you won them by treating”. |  |
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| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 23:16 - Sep 26 with 691 views | armchaircritic59 |
| City’s apparent guilt is a sad day for all football fans on 20:36 - Sep 26 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Whilst there’s no quantitive evidence as yet to prove this one way or the other, there are reports in the media based on phone-ins, social media analysis, etc that a substantial number are uncritical of the club. A case of success at any cost?
One such quote :
” Defiance and Support: A significant portion of the fanbase continues to reject the findings, aligning with the club's leadership and defiant open letters from chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak maintaining the club's absolute innocence. Many view the charges as an attack on their modern success by external rivals and governing bodies.” |
My point was that they have absolutely no input into the financial dealings of a football club. Whether they support any action that may result from such financial dealings, is another matter. If the club is found guilty as charged of those offences then obviously supporters who don't recognise the findings are behaving like the ostrich with it's head in the sand. But it doesn't change the fact that they had no part to play in it. | | | |
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