| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, 09:34 - Nov 3 with 3496 views | Keno |
has died after a horror challenge in a Spanish league game |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 09:35 - Nov 3 with 2846 views | jonny1964 |
This is just horrific |  | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 09:43 - Nov 3 with 2788 views | homer_123 |
Was reading on Reddit a hour ago and was posted there but hadn't made mainstream media.
I see the BBC are reporting it now.
Shocking. |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 09:57 - Nov 3 with 2699 views | ITFC_Essex |
Would this be the first case of a murder/manslaughter we have seen in football? How much intent for harm was involved with the challenge or was it a pure accident. |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 10:16 - Nov 3 with 2596 views | mellowblue |
keepers leading with the knee after jumping should not be allowed, I understand the self-preservation nature of it, we have all seen it with no repurcussion like this, yet the possibility was always there. R.I.P Jesus de Miguel. | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 11:12 - Nov 3 with 2375 views | algy |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 10:16 - Nov 3 by mellowblue |
keepers leading with the knee after jumping should not be allowed, I understand the self-preservation nature of it, we have all seen it with no repurcussion like this, yet the possibility was always there. R.I.P Jesus de Miguel. |
This awful assault had nothing to do with goalkeeping. It happened in the centre circle! | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 11:21 - Nov 3 with 2338 views | mellowblue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 11:12 - Nov 3 by algy |
This awful assault had nothing to do with goalkeeping. It happened in the centre circle! |
yup, as reckless and brutal a thing as you will see in football, even worse than Schumacher one in 1982 and that was the benchmark. With sweeper keepers nowadays the whole half can belong to the keeper ! | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:01 - Nov 3 with 2194 views | SheffordBlue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 11:12 - Nov 3 by algy |
This awful assault had nothing to do with goalkeeping. It happened in the centre circle! |
It's a horrible challenge but if he arrives half a second earlier he's made a good, goal saving clearance and has probably been clattered by the attacker rather than this way around. It's had a horrific outcome but it's a tiny difference.
I think it's the same with the vast majority of bad challenges - once the player has committed to the action it becomes really difficult to pull out of and a really fine margin becomes the difference. | |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:13 - Nov 3 with 2136 views | BiGDonnie |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 09:57 - Nov 3 by ITFC_Essex |
Would this be the first case of a murder/manslaughter we have seen in football? How much intent for harm was involved with the challenge or was it a pure accident. |
Shocking challenge, keeper should be arrested. |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:17 - Nov 3 with 2121 views | giant_stow |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:13 - Nov 3 by BiGDonnie |
Shocking challenge, keeper should be arrested. |
Its gonna take some sorting out for sure. I guess the keeper must be besides himself with guilt... or at least most people would be. RIP Jesus de Miguel |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:28 - Nov 3 with 2056 views | Mullet |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:17 - Nov 3 by giant_stow |
Its gonna take some sorting out for sure. I guess the keeper must be besides himself with guilt... or at least most people would be. RIP Jesus de Miguel |
It will be similar to Adam Johnson of Nottingham panthers who died a few years ago. Got an ice skate to the throat, now everyone in the league wears neck protectors - it was his memorial game last week or so too I think.
I’ve seen the challenge on twitter and I think it’d be impossible to suggest it’s man slaughter pet alone murder. |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 13:00 - Nov 3 with 1888 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 09:57 - Nov 3 by ITFC_Essex |
Would this be the first case of a murder/manslaughter we have seen in football? How much intent for harm was involved with the challenge or was it a pure accident. |
It's a total tragedy, but this kind of rhetoric is beyond stupid.
It's an accident that happened while competing in a sport. It's well within the confines of the game of football, and it's a total accident that the keeper has got him in the spot that's caused him to have a cardiac arrest.
I think we all remember the Mane on Ederson incident. That was probably a worse and more dangerous challenge.
A hugely sad moment for the whole footballing world. RIP. | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 13:05 - Nov 3 with 1860 views | bsw72 |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:28 - Nov 3 by Mullet |
It will be similar to Adam Johnson of Nottingham panthers who died a few years ago. Got an ice skate to the throat, now everyone in the league wears neck protectors - it was his memorial game last week or so too I think.
I’ve seen the challenge on twitter and I think it’d be impossible to suggest it’s man slaughter pet alone murder. |
No such thing as manslaughter in Spain, closest would be Homicidio imprudente which is killing through negligence, and is roughly what English law would call gross negligence manslaughter. SPain has no equivalent of the English rule that intent to cause serious harm is enough for murder.
In this case even a possible intention to injure (as opposed to an awfully timed challenge) would not necessarily amount to an intention to kill. A fraction of a second earlier and the collision does not necessarily have the same potential and fatal result.
The whole thing is just the most awful tragedy, and that for all of us who moan about how the game has gone soft it serves as a reminder as to why challenges like this have become almost non existent in the game today. |  | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 14:05 - Nov 3 with 1659 views | mellowblue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:01 - Nov 3 by SheffordBlue |
It's a horrible challenge but if he arrives half a second earlier he's made a good, goal saving clearance and has probably been clattered by the attacker rather than this way around. It's had a horrific outcome but it's a tiny difference.
I think it's the same with the vast majority of bad challenges - once the player has committed to the action it becomes really difficult to pull out of and a really fine margin becomes the difference. |
he is leading with his right knee, he is using his right knee as a defensive weapon. That is why it was a straight red and is more than just a coming together as well as being reckless and dangerous in the extreme. Feel sorry for the Keeper, he will live with this for the rest of his life. As well as the de Miguel, his family, colleagues and friends obviously. | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 15:06 - Nov 3 with 1512 views | NedPlimpton |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 14:05 - Nov 3 by mellowblue |
he is leading with his right knee, he is using his right knee as a defensive weapon. That is why it was a straight red and is more than just a coming together as well as being reckless and dangerous in the extreme. Feel sorry for the Keeper, he will live with this for the rest of his life. As well as the de Miguel, his family, colleagues and friends obviously. |
Sorry, but if we're running and jumping forward doesn't one knee always come ahead of the other? Who runs and then jumps forward with both legs straight? That would be fully weird |  | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 15:08 - Nov 3 with 1500 views | Weekender |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 15:06 - Nov 3 by NedPlimpton |
Sorry, but if we're running and jumping forward doesn't one knee always come ahead of the other? Who runs and then jumps forward with both legs straight? That would be fully weird |
Quite |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 16:44 - Nov 3 with 1292 views | TheBoyBlue |
It is a horrific challenge and rightly given a red card and of course thoughts are first and foremost with Jesus de Miguel's family. What a terrible thing for them to go through.
However, I feel desperately sorry for the goalkeeper. It was hot-headed and dangerously clumsy, but I don't expect for one moment that he intended to hurt him, let alone for this to happen. He now has to live with that and although there will be understandable calls for charges and more I expect that will be punishment enough for the poor lad. | |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 16:47 - Nov 3 with 1275 views | GlasgowBlue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:28 - Nov 3 by Mullet |
It will be similar to Adam Johnson of Nottingham panthers who died a few years ago. Got an ice skate to the throat, now everyone in the league wears neck protectors - it was his memorial game last week or so too I think.
I’ve seen the challenge on twitter and I think it’d be impossible to suggest it’s man slaughter pet alone murder. |
Prosecutors exploring possible involuntary manslaughter charges. Goalkeeper has deleted his social media account after receiving racist abuse.
Tragic and sad situation all round. |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 17:40 - Nov 3 with 1145 views | mellowblue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 12:28 - Nov 3 by Mullet |
It will be similar to Adam Johnson of Nottingham panthers who died a few years ago. Got an ice skate to the throat, now everyone in the league wears neck protectors - it was his memorial game last week or so too I think.
I’ve seen the challenge on twitter and I think it’d be impossible to suggest it’s man slaughter pet alone murder. |
To flesh out what you are saying. The Johnson case was not pursued by the CPS in the end as they did not think a case could result in a guilty verdict.
This could be the same, expect they will explore the options and pull back. | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 18:18 - Nov 3 with 1058 views | Perublue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 16:44 - Nov 3 by TheBoyBlue |
It is a horrific challenge and rightly given a red card and of course thoughts are first and foremost with Jesus de Miguel's family. What a terrible thing for them to go through.
However, I feel desperately sorry for the goalkeeper. It was hot-headed and dangerously clumsy, but I don't expect for one moment that he intended to hurt him, let alone for this to happen. He now has to live with that and although there will be understandable calls for charges and more I expect that will be punishment enough for the poor lad. |
Absolutely…and he’s now in hiding..
… as mentioned earlier in the thread it wasn’t in anyway premeditated as the España 82 …. Crime/incident.
Terribly traumatic and so sad for his loved ones and ones that loved him.
The link is of the earlier event not yesterday’s.. but avoid of course if you need to.
https://youtube.com/shorts/r_z [Post edited 3 Nov 18:33]
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 18:20 - Nov 3 with 1049 views | HighgateBlue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 13:05 - Nov 3 by bsw72 |
No such thing as manslaughter in Spain, closest would be Homicidio imprudente which is killing through negligence, and is roughly what English law would call gross negligence manslaughter. SPain has no equivalent of the English rule that intent to cause serious harm is enough for murder.
In this case even a possible intention to injure (as opposed to an awfully timed challenge) would not necessarily amount to an intention to kill. A fraction of a second earlier and the collision does not necessarily have the same potential and fatal result.
The whole thing is just the most awful tragedy, and that for all of us who moan about how the game has gone soft it serves as a reminder as to why challenges like this have become almost non existent in the game today. |
Yes, but in Spanish law there are two versions of negligence-based manslaughter, requiring different levels of negligence.
In English law there is only gross negligence manslaughter (and illegal act manslaughter obviously, but that's a different offence).
In Spain there is causing death through "imprudencia grave" i.e. gross negligence (Article 142(1)), and causing death through "imprudencia menos grave", i.e. less serious negligence (Article 142(2)).
I understand that in both criminal and civil contexts the Spanish apply a least a similarly high threshold as applies under English law to find a formal duty of care breached in a sporting context.
However, they do have this additional, lower threshold, version of homicidio imprudente that does not require the breach of the duty of care to be gross, or "grave".
As you say, a terrible tragedy. Football is not a non-contact sport, but watching some matches from the 1970s and even 1980s there's a whole load of cynical stuff that goes on, which you just don't like to see at all. Things have improved a great deal. But awful tragedies like this can still happen anywhere, and one has to feel for all involved. |  | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 18:36 - Nov 3 with 987 views | Nutkins_Return |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 15:06 - Nov 3 by NedPlimpton |
Sorry, but if we're running and jumping forward doesn't one knee always come ahead of the other? Who runs and then jumps forward with both legs straight? That would be fully weird |
Yep. Its quite clearly a red card but if you watch it from different angles it's just a really badly timed hallenge. He's gone to go and get the ball and he's not an outfield player and very awkward technique. Completely dangerous but this guy now has to live for the rest of his life with complete guilt. The reality was he was trying to save his team a goal and now he was feeling horrific forever. He's in bits about this apparently.
People need to have some compassion. It was a footballing incident where he made a really and mistake that 99.99999 times out of 100 would have just been a 3 match ban.
I did wonder if they might look at criminal proceedings and thought it was a dreadful challenge. But I really feel for him as well. Like the guy who bowled the bouncer at the cricketer but obviously a bit less 'fault' there. [Post edited 3 Nov 19:20]
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 19:38 - Nov 3 with 855 views | TripSwitch |
Que horror, pobrecillo. Descanse en paz campeón |  |
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| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 20:12 - Nov 3 with 798 views | mellowblue |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 18:36 - Nov 3 by Nutkins_Return |
Yep. Its quite clearly a red card but if you watch it from different angles it's just a really badly timed hallenge. He's gone to go and get the ball and he's not an outfield player and very awkward technique. Completely dangerous but this guy now has to live for the rest of his life with complete guilt. The reality was he was trying to save his team a goal and now he was feeling horrific forever. He's in bits about this apparently.
People need to have some compassion. It was a footballing incident where he made a really and mistake that 99.99999 times out of 100 would have just been a 3 match ban.
I did wonder if they might look at criminal proceedings and thought it was a dreadful challenge. But I really feel for him as well. Like the guy who bowled the bouncer at the cricketer but obviously a bit less 'fault' there. [Post edited 3 Nov 19:20]
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Nutkin, sorry to gripe, but there was absolutely no fault of Sean Abbott in the Phil Hughes death. It was a perfectly legal bouncer that Hughes tried to hook and missed and it hit him on the back of the neck. Another dreadful tragedy. | | | |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 00:42 - Nov 4 with 610 views | IPS_wich |
| RIP Jesus de Miguel such a tragedy, on 11:21 - Nov 3 by mellowblue |
yup, as reckless and brutal a thing as you will see in football, even worse than Schumacher one in 1982 and that was the benchmark. With sweeper keepers nowadays the whole half can belong to the keeper ! |
I think you need to go and rewatch the Schumacher incident again and reevaluate that statement.
Schumacher was about 2 seconds late on the player and the replay shows he never once took his eyes off the player - it was absolutely intentional.
This one was reckless, but there was a less than half a second between Miguel touching the ball and the keeper crashing into him. It was a red card +++ but it was nothing more than reckless compared to Schumacher's assault. | | | |
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