| #NoDramaJustStarmer 21:50 - Jun 6 with 4964 views | tractordownsouth |
Brilliant to have cut a 22 point lead to 2 points in such a short space of time, but the fact these charlatans are still in front after all this chaos shows how much of a mountain there is to be climbed |  |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 21:58 - Jun 6 with 3470 views | WD19 |
It’s the quiet ineptitude of the Lib Dem’s I find most impressive.
In the current climate I would expect the corpse of jimmy saville to poll more than 10% as their leader.....but somehow they are doing worse than that. |  | | |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:04 - Jun 6 with 3455 views | m14_blue |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 21:58 - Jun 6 by WD19 |
It’s the quiet ineptitude of the Lib Dem’s I find most impressive.
In the current climate I would expect the corpse of jimmy saville to poll more than 10% as their leader.....but somehow they are doing worse than that. |
I think having a competent, effective, relatively centrist Labour leader will inevitably make the Lib Dems even more irrelevant at least in the short term.
I say that as a natural LD voter. |  | | |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:12 - Jun 6 with 3427 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 21:58 - Jun 6 by WD19 |
It’s the quiet ineptitude of the Lib Dem’s I find most impressive.
In the current climate I would expect the corpse of jimmy saville to poll more than 10% as their leader.....but somehow they are doing worse than that. |
They're suffering from not having a leader in place yet, but I think the Lib Dems blew their big chance last year. Most peoples' politics lie somewhere in the middle of Johnson and Corbyn but they managed to alienate so many people with the revoke policy and Jo Swinson's general demeanour.
Labour need a strong Lib Dem party though - besides Sheffield Hallam, all of the Lib Dems top target seats in England are Tory-held. The only vague chance of Starmer becoming PM in 2024 is through a coalition, so it's in Labour's interests for those to be taken off the Tories. With a more moderate Labour leadership, there will be potential for the parties to find common ground, which would have been impossible under Corbyn and Swinson.
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:17 - Jun 6 with 3409 views | Bluefish |
I find those numbers depressing. Boris got in on Brexit and that is no longer a relevant issue. OK so it isnt done fully but no one is talking about it (oddly). He also beat a massively divisive Corbyn, with the Lib Dems taking on new voters with the remain stance. All of that has gone and it is a clean slate with a new sweep to power for a suposedly moderate appeal to all leader in Starmer. Not only that Boris is making an absolute shambles of a pandemic and the Lib Dems has quite literally vanished.
Starmer couldn't have a better set of circumstances and yet he is still behind |  |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:26 - Jun 6 with 3378 views | Herbivore |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:17 - Jun 6 by Bluefish |
I find those numbers depressing. Boris got in on Brexit and that is no longer a relevant issue. OK so it isnt done fully but no one is talking about it (oddly). He also beat a massively divisive Corbyn, with the Lib Dems taking on new voters with the remain stance. All of that has gone and it is a clean slate with a new sweep to power for a suposedly moderate appeal to all leader in Starmer. Not only that Boris is making an absolute shambles of a pandemic and the Lib Dems has quite literally vanished.
Starmer couldn't have a better set of circumstances and yet he is still behind |
We're only 6 months on from the Tories winning the GE by a landslide. If you thought Labour would overhaul them in that timescale it shows your naivety. |  |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:31 - Jun 6 with 3366 views | Plums |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:12 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
They're suffering from not having a leader in place yet, but I think the Lib Dems blew their big chance last year. Most peoples' politics lie somewhere in the middle of Johnson and Corbyn but they managed to alienate so many people with the revoke policy and Jo Swinson's general demeanour.
Labour need a strong Lib Dem party though - besides Sheffield Hallam, all of the Lib Dems top target seats in England are Tory-held. The only vague chance of Starmer becoming PM in 2024 is through a coalition, so it's in Labour's interests for those to be taken off the Tories. With a more moderate Labour leadership, there will be potential for the parties to find common ground, which would have been impossible under Corbyn and Swinson.
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat |
The LIb Dems have done a lot of soul searching recently and the post-election report of the campaign was pretty damning. There’s a leadership election in progress and a rebuild is on the way. Having been on Zoom calls with two of the three candidates this week, I have a lot more hope for the future than I did a month or two back. |  |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:48 - Jun 6 with 3331 views | syntaxerror |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:31 - Jun 6 by Plums |
The LIb Dems have done a lot of soul searching recently and the post-election report of the campaign was pretty damning. There’s a leadership election in progress and a rebuild is on the way. Having been on Zoom calls with two of the three candidates this week, I have a lot more hope for the future than I did a month or two back. |
Just like the Greens, however noble the Lib Dem manifesto, it splits the opposition to the Tories.
Demonic Cummings and Boris dealt with the split right, by making UKIP and the Brexit party irrelevant.
The centrist or left of centre parties split their vote, and lose, even if sometimes having a combined majority. How is that benefitting the country if we want to vote the Tories out. [Post edited 6 Jun 2020 22:48]
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:56 - Jun 6 with 3308 views | Clapham_Junction |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:17 - Jun 6 by Bluefish |
I find those numbers depressing. Boris got in on Brexit and that is no longer a relevant issue. OK so it isnt done fully but no one is talking about it (oddly). He also beat a massively divisive Corbyn, with the Lib Dems taking on new voters with the remain stance. All of that has gone and it is a clean slate with a new sweep to power for a suposedly moderate appeal to all leader in Starmer. Not only that Boris is making an absolute shambles of a pandemic and the Lib Dems has quite literally vanished.
Starmer couldn't have a better set of circumstances and yet he is still behind |
Sadly I suspect a good proportion of the Tory support is in the mould of Trump supporters who won't be persuaded by any form of logic or evidence. The Labour leader doesn't matter for them - they hate the party regardless.
Unfortunately the poison that the Tories and the people behind their election and referendum campaigns have introduced to British politics in the last decade will continue to infect it for many years to come. |  | | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:59 - Jun 6 with 3299 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:48 - Jun 6 by syntaxerror |
Just like the Greens, however noble the Lib Dem manifesto, it splits the opposition to the Tories.
Demonic Cummings and Boris dealt with the split right, by making UKIP and the Brexit party irrelevant.
The centrist or left of centre parties split their vote, and lose, even if sometimes having a combined majority. How is that benefitting the country if we want to vote the Tories out. [Post edited 6 Jun 2020 22:48]
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There's a need for them all though - there are some Tory held areas that will never vote Labour but would elect a Lib Dem (Cheltenham, North Norfolk, Carshalton) so Labour need a strong Lib Dem presence.
I do agree that there should be a pact in a few seats... For example, had the Lib Dems not stood in Iain Duncan Smith's seat Labour would have taken it... likewise, the Lib Dems could have taken Dominic Raab's seat without Labour splitting the vote. However, a widespread pact wouldn't work as Labour and Lib Dem voters won't always vote for the other if only one is on offer. | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:03 - Jun 6 with 3282 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:17 - Jun 6 by Bluefish |
I find those numbers depressing. Boris got in on Brexit and that is no longer a relevant issue. OK so it isnt done fully but no one is talking about it (oddly). He also beat a massively divisive Corbyn, with the Lib Dems taking on new voters with the remain stance. All of that has gone and it is a clean slate with a new sweep to power for a suposedly moderate appeal to all leader in Starmer. Not only that Boris is making an absolute shambles of a pandemic and the Lib Dems has quite literally vanished.
Starmer couldn't have a better set of circumstances and yet he is still behind |
It's not ideal polling conditions. The Tories had that in early April - at the start of a crisis (in which governments poll well), Labour and the Lib Dems without a leader, and the Brexit Party having basically given up campaigning.
The conditions are more in Labour's favour now but considering 2 months ago they were polling in the high 20s, to be on 39% is pretty impressive. Encouraging signs but obviously won't put much significance on polls until the autumn.
Question for you Bluefish... as a disillusioned former Tory, would you be open to voting for Starmer in a General Election? | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:08 - Jun 6 with 3261 views | sparks |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:59 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
There's a need for them all though - there are some Tory held areas that will never vote Labour but would elect a Lib Dem (Cheltenham, North Norfolk, Carshalton) so Labour need a strong Lib Dem presence.
I do agree that there should be a pact in a few seats... For example, had the Lib Dems not stood in Iain Duncan Smith's seat Labour would have taken it... likewise, the Lib Dems could have taken Dominic Raab's seat without Labour splitting the vote. However, a widespread pact wouldn't work as Labour and Lib Dem voters won't always vote for the other if only one is on offer. |
Most of the south west... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:08 - Jun 6 with 3269 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
The problem for Labour in these polls is that the Tory numbers are actually holding up, there is not much shift from the election in most of the recent polls, they need the Tory support to collapse and there is no sign of that happening (yet).
By the way, Labour also need Scotland to have any chance of winning an election and that’s the biggest hurdle for them to overcome. |  | | |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:09 - Jun 6 with 3250 views | Clapham_Junction |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:59 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
There's a need for them all though - there are some Tory held areas that will never vote Labour but would elect a Lib Dem (Cheltenham, North Norfolk, Carshalton) so Labour need a strong Lib Dem presence.
I do agree that there should be a pact in a few seats... For example, had the Lib Dems not stood in Iain Duncan Smith's seat Labour would have taken it... likewise, the Lib Dems could have taken Dominic Raab's seat without Labour splitting the vote. However, a widespread pact wouldn't work as Labour and Lib Dem voters won't always vote for the other if only one is on offer. |
Labour need to change their constitution as it requires CLPs to stand candidates in every seat.
I think the Greens have a better chance than the Lib Dems in some rural areas - they're certainly doing well in parts of rural Suffolk and were second to the Tories in Babergh, East Suffolk and Mid Suffolk in the last local elections (and pretty close in the latter). | | | |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:13 - Jun 6 with 3229 views | sparks |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:08 - Jun 6 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
The problem for Labour in these polls is that the Tory numbers are actually holding up, there is not much shift from the election in most of the recent polls, they need the Tory support to collapse and there is no sign of that happening (yet).
By the way, Labour also need Scotland to have any chance of winning an election and that’s the biggest hurdle for them to overcome. |
Losing Scotland so utterly has seriously damaged their long term prospects and those of the nation. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:29 - Jun 6 with 3194 views | BlueBadger |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:59 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
There's a need for them all though - there are some Tory held areas that will never vote Labour but would elect a Lib Dem (Cheltenham, North Norfolk, Carshalton) so Labour need a strong Lib Dem presence.
I do agree that there should be a pact in a few seats... For example, had the Lib Dems not stood in Iain Duncan Smith's seat Labour would have taken it... likewise, the Lib Dems could have taken Dominic Raab's seat without Labour splitting the vote. However, a widespread pact wouldn't work as Labour and Lib Dem voters won't always vote for the other if only one is on offer. |
I suspect there's more chances of pacts happening no with Corbyn out of the way as well. |  |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 00:18 - Jun 7 with 3137 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:08 - Jun 6 by sparks |
Most of the south west... |
My own seat St Ives is a Tory/LD marginal but in a lot of cases, Labour have pushed the Lib Dems into 3rd, which is incredible as the whole of Cornwall was yellow in 2005. Truro and Falmouth has never had a Labour MP but they're only 4.5k behind the Tory. The University is expanding so I'd imagine the demographics may help turn that red. Likewise, George Eustice's Camborne and Redruth seat has an 8k majority but Labour were only 1000 behind in 2017 so that could flip. The Lib Dems only have a realistic shot at in my seat.
Sadly, the Tories have a lot of the South West sewn up for the time being... the awful Sheryll Murray in South East Cornwall somehow has a 20k majority, and the 2 other North Cornwall seats are now safe seats. I think the Tories have benefited down here from the national collapse of the Lib Dems because the vote has been split. Gradually we're seeing more tactical voting and Labour becoming more competitive but the Tories have 3 of the 6 seats under wraps and will likely win at least 4, even if their national performance drops. | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 00:23 - Jun 7 with 3135 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:08 - Jun 6 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
The problem for Labour in these polls is that the Tory numbers are actually holding up, there is not much shift from the election in most of the recent polls, they need the Tory support to collapse and there is no sign of that happening (yet).
By the way, Labour also need Scotland to have any chance of winning an election and that’s the biggest hurdle for them to overcome. |
Nationally, Labour seem to be picking off a lot of old Lib Dem voters and the Tories have swept up Farage supporters to make up for losing a few to Labour. One encouraging sign is the Midlands though - Labour were 20 points behind in the region in the election, but are now polling 6% ahead
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 00:30 - Jun 7 with 3125 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:13 - Jun 6 by sparks |
Losing Scotland so utterly has seriously damaged their long term prospects and those of the nation. |
Yeah, it's a massive conundrum. I like Miliband but I think he made a big strategic error in 2015 by backing too many horses. He became less opposed to austerity to try and appease Tory voters, talked tough on immigration to avoid losing votes to UKIP, and threw in a few good policies on workers rights to maintain a progressive programme. But in the end he got outflanked on both of those things in England, which gave the SNP the chance to position themselves as the most fervent anti-austerity party and hoover up the Scottish vote.
Labour and Scotland is a bit of a Catch 22. In England, if the government is failing, it would see more votes going to Labour, but in Scotland those votes end up supporting the SNP and independence, which makes it impossible to win. And yet without winning, that means more Tory government and more appetite for independence [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 0:33]
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 07:58 - Jun 7 with 3008 views | Bluefish |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 23:03 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
It's not ideal polling conditions. The Tories had that in early April - at the start of a crisis (in which governments poll well), Labour and the Lib Dems without a leader, and the Brexit Party having basically given up campaigning.
The conditions are more in Labour's favour now but considering 2 months ago they were polling in the high 20s, to be on 39% is pretty impressive. Encouraging signs but obviously won't put much significance on polls until the autumn.
Question for you Bluefish... as a disillusioned former Tory, would you be open to voting for Starmer in a General Election? |
Yes I would
But i would have preferred Nandy [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 7:59]
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 08:05 - Jun 7 with 2987 views | Bluefish |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 22:26 - Jun 6 by Herbivore |
We're only 6 months on from the Tories winning the GE by a landslide. If you thought Labour would overhaul them in that timescale it shows your naivety. |
Yes yes herbs of course. As proven in previous polls in years gone by after national referendums and global pandemics. No one ever expected you to say anything different though with your blind tunnel vision politics, you are utterly pointless to discuss politics with. It is like trying to talk to a norwich fan about who is the most successful EA club. They will tell you over and over that all of our trophies don't count because they are history and then they will bang on about when they won a milk cup allnof those years ago. It is a shame really, you might be interesting if you could look subjectively. Maybe one day..... [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 8:06]
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 09:25 - Jun 7 with 2885 views | Herbivore |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 08:05 - Jun 7 by Bluefish |
Yes yes herbs of course. As proven in previous polls in years gone by after national referendums and global pandemics. No one ever expected you to say anything different though with your blind tunnel vision politics, you are utterly pointless to discuss politics with. It is like trying to talk to a norwich fan about who is the most successful EA club. They will tell you over and over that all of our trophies don't count because they are history and then they will bang on about when they won a milk cup allnof those years ago. It is a shame really, you might be interesting if you could look subjectively. Maybe one day..... [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 8:06]
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You don't seem to have either read or comprehended my post. You've just gone on a bit of a mini rant. | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:15 - Jun 7 with 2828 views | pointofblue |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 07:58 - Jun 7 by Bluefish |
Yes I would
But i would have preferred Nandy [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 7:59]
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Me too, if only because that hideous hashtag couldn’t be used!
In all seriousness, just gaining that much in a short space of time is a brilliant result. To use a cliche this is a marathon, not a sprint, and I doubt we’ll be seeing another election until 2024 - even if Johnson steps aside a new leader probably won’t want to take a risk after what happened to Theresa May. This has given Starmer a base to act on, he has been successful in finding support where previous Labour leaders have struggled to do so. | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:28 - Jun 7 with 2813 views | GlasgowBlue |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:15 - Jun 7 by pointofblue |
Me too, if only because that hideous hashtag couldn’t be used!
In all seriousness, just gaining that much in a short space of time is a brilliant result. To use a cliche this is a marathon, not a sprint, and I doubt we’ll be seeing another election until 2024 - even if Johnson steps aside a new leader probably won’t want to take a risk after what happened to Theresa May. This has given Starmer a base to act on, he has been successful in finding support where previous Labour leaders have struggled to do so. |
I see the embittered Corbynistas have coined the term “Starmtroopers” for supporters of the new leader. |  |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:42 - Jun 7 with 2783 views | tractordownsouth |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:28 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I see the embittered Corbynistas have coined the term “Starmtroopers” for supporters of the new leader. |
I quite like the term to be honest, I've taken it as a compliment | |
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| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:47 - Jun 7 with 2781 views | WD19 |
| #NoDramaJustStarmer on 10:28 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I see the embittered Corbynistas have coined the term “Starmtroopers” for supporters of the new leader. |
Are there any of those remaining outside of secure institutions!?
Although inevitably as soon as one of his 13,256,843 manifesto ideas are enacted by someone else the screams of “we were right” and “he was just ahead of his time” will be heard on the moon I am sure.... | | | |
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