| Hard to know what to think of that game... 15:51 - Aug 25 with 7420 views | itfcjoe |
....some good signs but some really bad too.
Defensively we look shaky, but then we are up against Haller, Yarmalenko and Diangana which is serious talent and not like what we will face in league 1
Going forwards we look OK and get in some good positions - but as willing as Drinan is he doesn't look like he'll ever score.
Some decent performances, my biggest worries are Holy's communication at the back, and that without Norwood or Hawkins leading the line this style is destined to fail.
Obviously there was the big error from Chambers, which worries, but like Cornell on Saturday I can't say it's a massive concern in a friendly. I'd like to see us start a first choice team on Saturday |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:54 - Aug 25 with 5006 views | rickw |
I agree on Drinnan, it might work if we were playing wide forwards but with Edwards / El Mizouni wide - they are midfielders/wingers instead of forwards and it becomes more of a 4-5-1 |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:54 - Aug 25 with 5003 views | clive_baker |
Hard to read too much into it when we're playing a decent Premier League opposition and we're without our 2 most competent defenders in Woolfy and KVY. I like the look of Ward, he can play. It does make you a bit nervous though, beyond them I'm not convinced we've got the personnel defensively.
Nolan's days are numbered. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:55 - Aug 25 with 4986 views | hype313 |
That's the crux Joe, as frustrating as it seems, we are not going to be facing anywhere near the calibre of those three this season, so we have to take it into context.
My main concern is this whole trying to play it out from the back which seems to be fashionable at the moment because Man City done it, we are not Man City, we need to play to our strengths and until we have defenders capable of doing so, we should play far more conservatively.
I'm interested to see a fully fit Norwood, he has the potential to do some damage, if we can give him good service we might be able to outscore the competiton. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:56 - Aug 25 with 4957 views | homer_123 |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:55 - Aug 25 by hype313 |
That's the crux Joe, as frustrating as it seems, we are not going to be facing anywhere near the calibre of those three this season, so we have to take it into context.
My main concern is this whole trying to play it out from the back which seems to be fashionable at the moment because Man City done it, we are not Man City, we need to play to our strengths and until we have defenders capable of doing so, we should play far more conservatively.
I'm interested to see a fully fit Norwood, he has the potential to do some damage, if we can give him good service we might be able to outscore the competiton. |
Not just a case of fashionable:
Just gone to pieces ... by homer_123 25 Aug 2020 15:45Well....now that's the question.
We don't really have ball playing defenders, so 'why' indeed do we play out from the back.
That question is partially answered by the signing of Hawkins. You see, we are utterly stuck at the moment - if the defenders or the keeper go long, we don't have the personnel up there to hold it up. Hence to the desire to play from the back.
At the moment, we appear to be caught in two minds. There is playing out from the back and then there is poor decision making. We should be trying to get the ball out from the back to our ball playing midfielders quickly and asking our defenders to play a 10 or 20 yard pass is within their remit.
Asking our defenders or our defenders choosing to try and pass their way out of our own box or eve 6 yard box is asking for trouble.
No issue from me trying to play out but......today shows what happens with poor instruction and/ or poor decision making.
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:56 - Aug 25 with 4952 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
When we were a Prem team, I would always expect at least a 3 or 4 goal victory against L1 sides in a friendly, so am not too worried about the score line.
Part of me thinks more friendlies against Champ or other L1 sides would be more useful. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:56 - Aug 25 with 4950 views | hype313 |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:54 - Aug 25 by clive_baker |
Hard to read too much into it when we're playing a decent Premier League opposition and we're without our 2 most competent defenders in Woolfy and KVY. I like the look of Ward, he can play. It does make you a bit nervous though, beyond them I'm not convinced we've got the personnel defensively.
Nolan's days are numbered. |
Nolan has never settled here, he is a shadow of the player he was at Shrewsbury, sometimes it just doesn't work out, and he and us would benefit from a parting of ways, i'm in the same opinion with Judge too. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:58 - Aug 25 with 4914 views | captainfantastic |
Our movement off the ball in the first 3 friendlies has been miles better than last season, really promising to see |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:58 - Aug 25 with 4907 views | homer_123 |
We play out from the back, in part, because we cannot hold the ball up top. I'd actually include Norwood in this bracket - he's not exactly brilliant at hold up play.
Therefore, being more direct doesn't work. Hence the need to play out from the back.
Just gone to pieces ... by homer_123 25 Aug 2020 15:45Well....now that's the question.
We don't really have ball playing defenders, so 'why' indeed do we play out from the back.
That question is partially answered by the signing of Hawkins. You see, we are utterly stuck at the moment - if the defenders or the keeper go long, we don't have the personnel up there to hold it up. Hence to the desire to play from the back.
At the moment, we appear to be caught in two minds. There is playing out from the back and then there is poor decision making. We should be trying to get the ball out from the back to our ball playing midfielders quickly and asking our defenders to play a 10 or 20 yard pass is within their remit.
Asking our defenders or our defenders choosing to try and pass their way out of our own box or eve 6 yard box is asking for trouble.
No issue from me trying to play out but......today shows what happens with poor instruction and/ or poor decision making.
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:59 - Aug 25 with 4892 views | IpswichKnight |
I agree we need to move towards what our proper team would look like now, we have some serious talent in midfield after today I’d have to say our best midfield 3 combo would be Downes, El-Mizouni and Huws, it’s not a wide midfield though we’d be reliant on the 3 wide strikers to be wingers and track back which could then lead to any striker being badly isolated. |  | | |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:59 - Aug 25 with 4883 views | itfcjoe |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:54 - Aug 25 by clive_baker |
Hard to read too much into it when we're playing a decent Premier League opposition and we're without our 2 most competent defenders in Woolfy and KVY. I like the look of Ward, he can play. It does make you a bit nervous though, beyond them I'm not convinced we've got the personnel defensively.
Nolan's days are numbered. |
Yep, playing out from the back without the 2 most competent ball playing defenders is always going to be risky - neither Chambers nor Nsiala are able to be the get out of jail free card for each other at the back like those 2 would be. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:01 - Aug 25 with 4859 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:54 - Aug 25 by clive_baker |
Hard to read too much into it when we're playing a decent Premier League opposition and we're without our 2 most competent defenders in Woolfy and KVY. I like the look of Ward, he can play. It does make you a bit nervous though, beyond them I'm not convinced we've got the personnel defensively.
Nolan's days are numbered. |
Can Ward play in the middle if KVY is fit?
We seem to lack strength in depth there. Is Wilson out at the moment? Ndaba looked good but would need experience alongside him. Chambers made 2 shocking mistakes today, one of which he got away with. I think he needs to be eased out this season which is where having the experience of Ward allows it to happen. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:03 - Aug 25 with 4830 views | Parky |
Agree it’s very hard to take anything from our last 2 games against Spurs and West Ham, who are evidently streets ahead of us.
That being said, I thought our defence looked shaky against a very poor Colchester side(s) who really should have scored on a couple of occasions. I really don’t think we can have Chambers and Ward on the same side of that back line.
I do hope we persist with this passing style, parts of today’s game and Spurs we looked very slick in the middle, especially with Dozzell, Downes and Bishop. Still looks as though we’re missing that clinical edge and somebody who can just put the ball in the net.
Hopefully we’ll see a close-to full strength side in one of our remaining friendlies to get a proper gauge of how we look against reasonable opponents, never going to get anywhere if we don’t sort out our defence and likewise if we don’t score enough goals.
As you’ve said in the OP, some positives to take however. [Post edited 25 Aug 2020 16:04]
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:05 - Aug 25 with 4802 views | JammyDodgerrr |
Agree with you Joe, and i think that with Hawkins or Norwood up top it will bring it all together. We played some really good stuff today and the scoreline really flatters to deceive - we made a couple of errors and they got punished, same as at Spurs, which you would expect from frontlines costing around £100m. They are also clearly further ahead in the prep given they only just finished playing.
Thought Ward was good, and got up and down well, Sears took his goal well(really thought he would miss) and Bishop looks sharp.
A good day out i would say. [Post edited 25 Aug 2020 16:05]
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:06 - Aug 25 with 4781 views | LankHenners |
Very much one to say 'it's only a friendly' about.
Defensive concerns for me (agree on not facing that sort of quality on League 1) were moments of hesitation/lack of communication between Toto/Chambers/Holy and that we've not got the players to be playing out from the back and will continue to make errors trying to do it.
Drinan looks willing but a bit clumsy - Folami looked bright in his cameo and fizzed a good ball into him which he couldn't sort his feet out in time. Hawkins might end up playing quite a big role this season.
Midfield 3 which started the game looked a lot better than the one which ended it - Downes in particular very commanding and Bishop getting stuck in was better than Judge dropping so deep and out of position and Nolan instinctively playing a safe pass backwards when he receives it in midfield.
You'd assume likes of KVY, Woolfenden, Jackson back for Saturday, then should treat the cup game the following week like a league one - put out his best team to win the game and take that into the start of the league the week after. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:07 - Aug 25 with 4750 views | Parky |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:01 - Aug 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Can Ward play in the middle if KVY is fit?
We seem to lack strength in depth there. Is Wilson out at the moment? Ndaba looked good but would need experience alongside him. Chambers made 2 shocking mistakes today, one of which he got away with. I think he needs to be eased out this season which is where having the experience of Ward allows it to happen. |
It’s clearly too much of a risk and I’m not sure one I would take on, but the games we’ve played so far albeit friendlies, the best performing CB’s have been Woolfenden and Ndaba. | | | |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:08 - Aug 25 with 4737 views | Garv |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:54 - Aug 25 by clive_baker |
Hard to read too much into it when we're playing a decent Premier League opposition and we're without our 2 most competent defenders in Woolfy and KVY. I like the look of Ward, he can play. It does make you a bit nervous though, beyond them I'm not convinced we've got the personnel defensively.
Nolan's days are numbered. |
I'd be looking to move Nolan on at this stage I think. He just seems to be the odd one out at the moment, all the other midfielders you can stake a case for having in the team and they all have their own merits. We never seem to see Nolan's. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:08 - Aug 25 with 4724 views | Chrisd |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:55 - Aug 25 by hype313 |
That's the crux Joe, as frustrating as it seems, we are not going to be facing anywhere near the calibre of those three this season, so we have to take it into context.
My main concern is this whole trying to play it out from the back which seems to be fashionable at the moment because Man City done it, we are not Man City, we need to play to our strengths and until we have defenders capable of doing so, we should play far more conservatively.
I'm interested to see a fully fit Norwood, he has the potential to do some damage, if we can give him good service we might be able to outscore the competiton. |
No matter what is going on behind the scenes with Norwood and PL, if indeed there is anything? Norwood is the best available option we have to play up top in that central position.
Spot on about the Man City analogy Hype, we aren't Man City but there seems a general reluctance to mix things up. It's play out from the back at all costs which is plain daft. Knocking it long is fine too, use as and when - keep the opposition on their toes. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:14 - Aug 25 with 4634 views | itfcjoe |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:07 - Aug 25 by Parky |
It’s clearly too much of a risk and I’m not sure one I would take on, but the games we’ve played so far albeit friendlies, the best performing CB’s have been Woolfenden and Ndaba. |
Ndaba needs to play some games somewhere - he had two failed loan spells last season and that is quite telling.
Cmpare that to Woolfie who went to Bromley in National League and played 20 odd games in a row, then to Swindon in League 2 where he played 30 plus games.
Ndaba has played 45 minutes in the Conference South and was taken off at half time and dropped before returning - it's a long way back from there. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:15 - Aug 25 with 4617 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:07 - Aug 25 by Parky |
It’s clearly too much of a risk and I’m not sure one I would take on, but the games we’ve played so far albeit friendlies, the best performing CB’s have been Woolfenden and Ndaba. |
And the point of pre-season is to prepare for the season proper. I see no issue with Woolfenden as first choice and Ndaba his back-up while Chambers/Wilson/Skuse or Ward possibly plays alongside them.
As for the first team on Saturday, I would rather we played players that need a game on Saturday and then next week played the full first team in the first cup match. That gives them a proper test a week before the season proper. Forget the compulsion to put the reserves out in the cup. He can do that in the second one which is a reserve team fixture anyway. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:18 - Aug 25 with 4587 views | Parky |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:14 - Aug 25 by itfcjoe |
Ndaba needs to play some games somewhere - he had two failed loan spells last season and that is quite telling.
Cmpare that to Woolfie who went to Bromley in National League and played 20 odd games in a row, then to Swindon in League 2 where he played 30 plus games.
Ndaba has played 45 minutes in the Conference South and was taken off at half time and dropped before returning - it's a long way back from there. |
Hard to disagree with any of that, think that’s spot on.
That being said, I do like the idea of Ndaba filling in when one of Chambers or Woolfenden miss out, especially if we’re going to stick with the playing from the back.
In hindsight, he really would benefit in a full season playing every week. | | | |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:24 - Aug 25 with 4516 views | itfcjoe |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:18 - Aug 25 by Parky |
Hard to disagree with any of that, think that’s spot on.
That being said, I do like the idea of Ndaba filling in when one of Chambers or Woolfenden miss out, especially if we’re going to stick with the playing from the back.
In hindsight, he really would benefit in a full season playing every week. |
I think even if playing out from the back we probably still need a stopper in there - issue is we have 3 stoppers in Chambo, Toto and Wilson and 1 ball player in Woolfie - plus Ndaba needing games behind him.
Ideally we get shot of Toto and replace him with a ball player and it balances out things a bit better and gives us more options.
If we want to play like this and go into the season with just Woolfie as a ball player we will struggle because he can't play every game and if he misses any we'll struggle | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 16:34 - Aug 25 with 4425 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
It was overall ok, some individual errors, similar to that of Tottenham game, and you will be punished against that type of quality, and you could see at times there is levels to this game.
I have no issue with continuing with playing our style at the moment, against Colchester, which is more our level we looked good at it, we can't be too concerned with it not working as well vs Tottenham or West Ham.
I thought Chambers had really uncomfortable afternoon all round, not just his mistakes.
A lot of players missing today, another good workout. Keep to what we are trying to build. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 23:10 - Aug 25 with 4176 views | madmouse1959 |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:56 - Aug 25 by hype313 |
Nolan has never settled here, he is a shadow of the player he was at Shrewsbury, sometimes it just doesn't work out, and he and us would benefit from a parting of ways, i'm in the same opinion with Judge too. |
Beginning to wonder what will be considered our best 11. [Post edited 25 Aug 2020 23:13]
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 23:27 - Aug 25 with 4121 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 23:10 - Aug 25 by madmouse1959 |
Beginning to wonder what will be considered our best 11. [Post edited 25 Aug 2020 23:13]
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I think right now there a limited number of players you could rest your hat on and say will be solid bets for Wigan Athletic - Downes, Woolfenden, KVY, Ward.
I still think the rest are up for grabs, some players have impressed pre season though, Bishop, Judge, Dobra, El Mizouni v Col U, and I actually Toto has been fine during pre season. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 01:16 - Aug 26 with 4040 views | Melford |
The players we have played in the last couple of games are a class apart from what we'll be facing in League One. That was Dele Alli, Son and Moura tearing us apart first half on Saturday, then it's against another prem team in in Wet Spam. We've just played against some top attacking talent and we've made a few mistakes, means nothing. We won't be playing teams with that kind of quality now for the rest of the season. |  |
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