| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad 10:04 - Dec 3 with 3385 views | TieDyedIn95 |
I was thinking last night about how many of these players were actually signed by Paul Lambert and I was thinking about the squad overall and that largely our better and more reliable performers were almost exclusively signed or brought through by Mick McCarthy, who we all know left in 2018.
EDIT: Chambers signed under Jewell but played the bulk under Mick
Players who signed or debuted under Mick..
Woolfenden
Nydham
Kenlock
Downes
Dozzell
Skuse
Bishop
Huws
Sears
Drinan
Then we have the Hurst signings...
Donacien
Nsiala
Nolan
Edwards
Jackson
Lankester (I can't remember if he debuted under Hurst or Lambert)
Lambert however hasn't brought in that many permanent first team players (if you compare us to other clubs our size) since arriving over two years ago, which may be part of the problem?
Current squad Lambert signings
Holy
Cornell
Vincent-Young
Wilson
Ndaba
Ward
Judge
Dobra
El Mazoni
Hawkins
Norwood
Just strange to think a manager who left three seasons ago is still responsible for signing or bringing through the majority of the clubs better players.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2020 11:02]
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:14 - Dec 3 with 3332 views | OsborneOneNil |
Not sure it’s that. I think he’s just a poor manager, and cannot coach an effective system(s).
An ex-Town player told me early this year, before lockdown, that he’d lost the dressing room. That’s 9/10 months ago. That clearly hasn’t changed or improved.
He blags it. That’s all. |  | | |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:19 - Dec 3 with 3307 views | kizaitfc |
I made this point the other day when you looked at the team and 8 of the players were players that played in the relegation season.
I personally don't think enough blame was attached to the players that season, they seemed to get a free ride. It was an awful season and very few of the players should have been kept IMO.
But I also made the point in the January of last season where you could see PL falling into that MM trap of siding with Evans over the fans. He was satisfied with the poor investment and willingness to go out and buy players that would improve the squad.
So yes this is not all PLs fault but he has far from helped himself, it feels like MM but a lot lot worse at the moment |  |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:23 - Dec 3 with 3274 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:14 - Dec 3 by OsborneOneNil |
Not sure it’s that. I think he’s just a poor manager, and cannot coach an effective system(s).
An ex-Town player told me early this year, before lockdown, that he’d lost the dressing room. That’s 9/10 months ago. That clearly hasn’t changed or improved.
He blags it. That’s all. |
If that is true then it may well explain the 5-year contract. ME laying down a marker and backing his manager; effectively the players must come to heel or leave. |  |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:30 - Dec 3 with 3245 views | Swansea_Blue |
A jewell of a signing
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:31 - Dec 3 with 3241 views | jayessess |
There are a lot of McCarthy and Hurst signings in there, but equally there's been very little effort to move any of them on to build something new. Most of the Mick list have had contract extensions under Lambert, as have some of the Hurst list. When you look at what Lincoln achieved in terms of transforming their squad over one transfer window, our lack of turnover in the last 2 seasons and a bit seasons really stands out for me. |  |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:45 - Dec 3 with 3202 views | Chrisd |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:31 - Dec 3 by jayessess |
There are a lot of McCarthy and Hurst signings in there, but equally there's been very little effort to move any of them on to build something new. Most of the Mick list have had contract extensions under Lambert, as have some of the Hurst list. When you look at what Lincoln achieved in terms of transforming their squad over one transfer window, our lack of turnover in the last 2 seasons and a bit seasons really stands out for me. |
But then I would question has PL fallen into the same trap as a few of us believing those players are good enough to get us up, hence the extension on their contracts were triggered? Where in reality too much water has passed under the bridge for them to be effective. [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 11:01]
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:59 - Dec 3 with 3161 views | TieDyedIn95 |
I forgot that, so we even have a Jewell man still in the squad!
When we talk about stagnation though, surely we do need to consider a big problem being the fact we have so many hangers on from other managers. As bad as Lambert has been on the tactics front, he can't largely be blamed for bringing these players in who have relegated us and then failed to do the business in the third division. Either McCarthy was literally a miracle worker keeping these players at that level or the players aren't being motivated enough to do better since he departed, and if that's the case why aren't they? | |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:00 - Dec 3 with 3158 views | ericclacton |
It's quite straight forward really l
Lambert and his staff are not capable of coaching players collectively and individually look at hemlock he has not improved for last two years..........that is why we are well and truly in the poop. |  | | |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:11 - Dec 3 with 3108 views | jayessess |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:45 - Dec 3 by Chrisd |
But then I would question has PL fallen into the same trap as a few of us believing those players are good enough to get us up, hence the extension on their contracts were triggered? Where in reality too much water has passed under the bridge for them to be effective. [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 11:01]
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Partially that, partially inertia, partially sentiment maybe?
Take Skuse's new deal this Summer, for example. Sure, you can think about it in positive terms. Good old pro, can still do a job as a squad player, probably took a bit of a pay cut, nice to have him around the club, bleeds blue and white maybe he'll be a coach one day.
But, you could also think about it as a recipe for stagnation: Here's this player, into his mid-30s, who hasn't made a big difference in consecutive seasons where we've declined. It's backward looking to be paying him a full senior professional's wage when we could put that money towards something else. | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:17 - Dec 3 with 3081 views | cvillageblue |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:31 - Dec 3 by jayessess |
There are a lot of McCarthy and Hurst signings in there, but equally there's been very little effort to move any of them on to build something new. Most of the Mick list have had contract extensions under Lambert, as have some of the Hurst list. When you look at what Lincoln achieved in terms of transforming their squad over one transfer window, our lack of turnover in the last 2 seasons and a bit seasons really stands out for me. |
'There's been very little effort to move any of them on'
Probably on a good wage for L1 - and no one in a higher league will want them.
Lambert has had very little scope to improve the squad and will not do so whilst the Hurst signings are still there. We are really still paying for that clown of a manager.
The one thing that has amazed me is that Nolan and Nsiala in particular have not been decent at this level. For which I suppose we can blame the current manager, | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:34 - Dec 3 with 3032 views | jayessess |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:17 - Dec 3 by cvillageblue |
'There's been very little effort to move any of them on'
Probably on a good wage for L1 - and no one in a higher league will want them.
Lambert has had very little scope to improve the squad and will not do so whilst the Hurst signings are still there. We are really still paying for that clown of a manager.
The one thing that has amazed me is that Nolan and Nsiala in particular have not been decent at this level. For which I suppose we can blame the current manager, |
Of our current first team squad:
10 are Lambert signings.
12 have extended their contracts whilst at the club, including... 2 Hurst signings.
That leaves the following list that he's been stuck with:
Nydam
Drinan
Dozzell
Huws
Donacien
Nsiala
Jackson
There's been plenty of scope to reform the squad. We've chosen not to take advantage of it. | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:36 - Dec 3 with 3026 views | Herbivore |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:17 - Dec 3 by cvillageblue |
'There's been very little effort to move any of them on'
Probably on a good wage for L1 - and no one in a higher league will want them.
Lambert has had very little scope to improve the squad and will not do so whilst the Hurst signings are still there. We are really still paying for that clown of a manager.
The one thing that has amazed me is that Nolan and Nsiala in particular have not been decent at this level. For which I suppose we can blame the current manager, |
Lambert was able to offer James Norwood double what Championship side Charlton could offer him. He spent half a million on KVY. He spent a few million on ultimately pointless loans during his first transfer window here. It's not true to say he hasn't been backed to make changes to the squad, and had he wanted to he could have let more players go and replaced them with his own. He chose not to. |  |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:49 - Dec 3 with 2987 views | gordon |
But aside from players developed at ITFC, isn't it only Chambers and Sears from before the Hurst era that are still regular starters? Appreciate that Huws gets on the pitch sometimes too. |  | | |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:39 - Dec 3 with 2896 views | cvillageblue |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:34 - Dec 3 by jayessess |
Of our current first team squad:
10 are Lambert signings.
12 have extended their contracts whilst at the club, including... 2 Hurst signings.
That leaves the following list that he's been stuck with:
Nydam
Drinan
Dozzell
Huws
Donacien
Nsiala
Jackson
There's been plenty of scope to reform the squad. We've chosen not to take advantage of it. |
The wages of the bottom 4 and Nolan really have limited his scope.
If we were being honest from the ones that he has invested in I think . . . .
Most wanted Judge to stay.
Most were happy with Norwood
KVY everybody loves!!
Not aware that the latter two have had an injury plagued career prior to joining us.
I'm not standing up for Lambert - but pointing out that Hurst set us back years. Had there been any takers for the bottom 4 and Nolan I doubt they'd be here. | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:41 - Dec 3 with 2888 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 11:11 - Dec 3 by jayessess |
Partially that, partially inertia, partially sentiment maybe?
Take Skuse's new deal this Summer, for example. Sure, you can think about it in positive terms. Good old pro, can still do a job as a squad player, probably took a bit of a pay cut, nice to have him around the club, bleeds blue and white maybe he'll be a coach one day.
But, you could also think about it as a recipe for stagnation: Here's this player, into his mid-30s, who hasn't made a big difference in consecutive seasons where we've declined. It's backward looking to be paying him a full senior professional's wage when we could put that money towards something else. |
We released Rowe in his 20's who actually started last season well, to (choose to) keep Skuse on, who is yet to contribute. Rowe could feel quite hard done by in that regard.
We have the oldest side in the league I think, despite the "back the youth" PR coming out of the club. We're far the young inexperienced team, as shown above the majority of them have played here for yonks now. [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 12:53]
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| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:47 - Dec 3 with 2864 views | chrismakin |
What i don't understand is how hard it is for PL to realise what it is the fans want
when we would have 14-17 shots at goal etc, EXCITING football
NOT 90% POSSESSION in our own half and getting 1 shot on target in 90 minutes against a side who hadn't kept a clean sheet all season and worst of all " We just couldn't get beat" it was bloody OXFORD!!!! |  |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:49 - Dec 3 with 2849 views | Herbivore |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:41 - Dec 3 by TieDyedIn95 |
We released Rowe in his 20's who actually started last season well, to (choose to) keep Skuse on, who is yet to contribute. Rowe could feel quite hard done by in that regard.
We have the oldest side in the league I think, despite the "back the youth" PR coming out of the club. We're far the young inexperienced team, as shown above the majority of them have played here for yonks now. [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 12:53]
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What evidence do you have that us keeping Skuse meant we couldn't keep Rowe? | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:53 - Dec 3 with 2822 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:49 - Dec 3 by Herbivore |
What evidence do you have that us keeping Skuse meant we couldn't keep Rowe? |
He's back and looking for a fight again.
Did I say that? I said we chose to keep Skuse and sack Rowe. We could have kept both, but we chose to keep a guy approaching his 40's over a guy in his 20's and Rowe could feel hard done by as a result. | |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:56 - Dec 3 with 2796 views | Beckets |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:53 - Dec 3 by TieDyedIn95 |
He's back and looking for a fight again.
Did I say that? I said we chose to keep Skuse and sack Rowe. We could have kept both, but we chose to keep a guy approaching his 40's over a guy in his 20's and Rowe could feel hard done by as a result. |
You’re an accountant aren’t you. Cole Skuse had just turned 34 when he signed the contract and you describe him as approaching his 40s. |  | | |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 13:15 - Dec 3 with 2752 views | eddiespearitt03 |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:56 - Dec 3 by Beckets |
You’re an accountant aren’t you. Cole Skuse had just turned 34 when he signed the contract and you describe him as approaching his 40s. |
Skuse plays like a man in his 40,s ...ha. | | | |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 13:20 - Dec 3 with 2742 views | Herbivore |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 12:53 - Dec 3 by TieDyedIn95 |
He's back and looking for a fight again.
Did I say that? I said we chose to keep Skuse and sack Rowe. We could have kept both, but we chose to keep a guy approaching his 40's over a guy in his 20's and Rowe could feel hard done by as a result. |
I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just not sure what your point is. We could have kept Rowe, not keeping Rowe had nothing to do with the decision to keep Skuse. Rowe barely played for us in his 2 or 3 years here so I'm not sure why he'd feel hard done by that he wasn't kept on. | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 13:28 - Dec 3 with 2705 views | jayessess |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 13:20 - Dec 3 by Herbivore |
I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just not sure what your point is. We could have kept Rowe, not keeping Rowe had nothing to do with the decision to keep Skuse. Rowe barely played for us in his 2 or 3 years here so I'm not sure why he'd feel hard done by that he wasn't kept on. |
I think we were right to release Rowe, but, the club's line is that we're at the maximum permitted budget, isn't it? Reasonable to think about what else we might hypothetically have done with the money. | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 13:33 - Dec 3 with 2687 views | Herbivore |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 13:28 - Dec 3 by jayessess |
I think we were right to release Rowe, but, the club's line is that we're at the maximum permitted budget, isn't it? Reasonable to think about what else we might hypothetically have done with the money. |
Not sure that is the club's line, there's limited wiggle room but we still made signings after releasing Rowe. And actually, Rowe was released before the salary cap had even been approved so I doubt that had anything to do with it. It just seems a very odd take linking the fully justified releasing of Rowe with the keeping of Skuse. The two aren't really related. | |
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| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 14:27 - Dec 3 with 2597 views | bournemouthblue |
| McCarthy and Hurst signings still in the squad on 10:59 - Dec 3 by TieDyedIn95 |
I forgot that, so we even have a Jewell man still in the squad!
When we talk about stagnation though, surely we do need to consider a big problem being the fact we have so many hangers on from other managers. As bad as Lambert has been on the tactics front, he can't largely be blamed for bringing these players in who have relegated us and then failed to do the business in the third division. Either McCarthy was literally a miracle worker keeping these players at that level or the players aren't being motivated enough to do better since he departed, and if that's the case why aren't they? |
In fairness to McCarthy all his best players are well gone
Bart
Mings
Webster
McGoldrick
Garner
Waghorn
Murphy
Then he had some decent loanees
Fraser
Williams
Lawrence [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 14:31]
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