| A few thoughts on where we are now 10:36 - Nov 25 with 3602 views | Steve_M |
It's hard not to see a club that has got nearly every big decision wrong and come out on the wrong side of almost every promotion or relegation fight over 19 years as being in anything other than terminal decline. The very obvious exception to that pattern of failure was the appointment of McCarthy and his first few years here.
Evans has made so many poor decisions since he bought the club and, even allowing for the way in which financial doping has changed the Championship in that time, ITFC has fallen further and further behind the modern game in his 13 years of ownership. What should have been a competitive financial advantage was squandered by Magilton and, even more so, Keane but a total failure to implement any kind of footballing structure has meant that every change of manager has seen a large upheaval.
Which brings us to the biggest mistake: allowing Hurst to rip up the basis of a good Championship squad and then overpay for a load of lower division players. Many of those might have grown into a good squad but the wholesale change as good as relegated the club in the first two months of the 2018-19 season.
Lambert certainly should have done more to close the gap to the rest of the division but it was always going to be difficult to stay up from where we were, not so much in terms of points as the lack of quality at either end of the pitch. I don't blame him for relegation though, but that time should have been about preparing for a quick return.
Lambert has now had two attempts at promotion and failed at both. That we are still well placed in the table is irrelevant to the very obvious decline from the early weeks of the season: the energy, belief and coherence of the team are markedly worse and it shows in the lack of chances created and the dreadful goals conceded.
For a side that had won six matches out of six at home, there was no sign of that in the performance last night. Hull needed to be little more than well organised and (occasionally) clinical in front of goal to win easily and, yet, absolutely no one is surprised by either of those factors.
Injuries are a mitigating factor, Bishop and Edwards have been two of our better players this season but the frequency of serious injuries and the seeming failure of players to recover for them — Kane Vincent-Young now out for over a year just the latest — is another pattern repeated across too many seasons.
It’s clear that a change of manager is needed and it has to be soon. We’ve watched the Premier League gradually become out of reach over the two decades of failure and now we are seeing the Championship head the same way — it may only have been 18 months since we were limply relegated from it but the impact of Covid-19 on the lower divisions is going to be harsh. The push for a salary cap reduces any competitive advantage ITFC has in the third tier, and we are still a big club at this level on account of the size of the fanbase regardless of anything else.
Any hope of Evans ever getting back a significant amount of what he has spent on ITFC has long disappeared. In the absence of a buyer willing to pay whatever Evans will settle for then he has to decide what level of spending he is comfortable with. The worry for us is that it might be at League One level rather than the £6 million a year it was costing to mark time in the Championship. Again, the lack of footballing structure ends up costing more money and, indeed, the five year contract given to Paul Lambert when the team hadn’t won for two months last December will cost even more money to terminate, whatever the break clauses within it. And, of course, this is all accounted for as debt, money ITFC owes to Marcus Evans. None of which changes the likelihood of his recovering much of it.
If nothing changes, everything points to the third division becoming our new home with maybe the occasional spell in the Championship for a season or two being as good as it gets for ITFC. The signs of this decline have been visible for a long time certainly back before McCarthy was appointed — he managed to arrest that and even build on it for a few years too — but there is no evidence of anything that is going to turn that round now.
There’s far too that needs to change at the club but a first team drifting to another mid-table finish in this division is the most urgent aspect of this decline. That has to be arrested and it has to be by a change of manager. Maybe the rest of it will still follow but without onfield success, however moderate that might be, crowds will decline and the promotions of 1992 and 2000 become as distant as the Robson era: nice to look back on but of no relevance to the club today.
Over to you Marcus. [Post edited 25 Nov 2020 10:42]
|  |
| |  |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:39 - Nov 25 with 2833 views | Guthrum |
Good piece, Steve. |  |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:43 - Nov 25 with 2799 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Great post as usual Steve. The only bit I would question is the below:
‘In the absence of a buyer willing to pay whatever Evans will settle for then he has to decide what level of spending he is comfortable with. The worry for us is that it might be at League One level rather than the £6 million a year it was costing to mark time in the Championship’
It has certainly crossed my mind that being in League One and the incoming salary cap would reduce the amount Evans needs to put in, however the first part of that paragraph highlights the issue with that, as us becoming a League One club will reduce the value of the club significantly. If Evans still hopes to get whatever amount he would be comfortable selling at, it is in his interests for us to be as high in the pyramid as possible. Given that I still think he wants us to go up at all costs - the worry is that he doesn’t have the football nous to realise it isn’t going to happen without a (no doubt expensive) change |  |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:45 - Nov 25 with 2786 views | Chrisd |
A good read Steve, you raise some very valid points. |  |
| |
| If you could condense this..... on 10:46 - Nov 25 with 2782 views | Bloots |
....into a format for Twitter and email it's exactly the message we need to all agree on and get flooding out there "en masse".
One group, one message.
Probably an impossible task, I know, but just shouting Lambert out and saying "FOPRP" isn't going to cut it.
We need to start a movement.
(I'm actually being serious here!) |  |
| Elite Level Poster: Elite Level Supporter: Elite Level Human |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:49 - Nov 25 with 2749 views | hype313 |
Excellent summary Steve, as sad as it is. |  |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:51 - Nov 25 with 2740 views | SomethingBlue |
Spot on from start to finish. | |
| |
| If you could condense this..... on 10:53 - Nov 25 with 2724 views | SomethingBlue |
| If you could condense this..... on 10:46 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....into a format for Twitter and email it's exactly the message we need to all agree on and get flooding out there "en masse".
One group, one message.
Probably an impossible task, I know, but just shouting Lambert out and saying "FOPRP" isn't going to cut it.
We need to start a movement.
(I'm actually being serious here!) |
If only we had a Supporters' Trust that was was worthy of the name — and not one that blocked attempts to revive it a few years ago because certain people enjoyed having a "title" that they've subsequently done nothing with. I'm serious, moments like this are when a functioning Trust is needed badly. | |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:55 - Nov 25 with 2690 views | Guthrum |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:43 - Nov 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Great post as usual Steve. The only bit I would question is the below:
‘In the absence of a buyer willing to pay whatever Evans will settle for then he has to decide what level of spending he is comfortable with. The worry for us is that it might be at League One level rather than the £6 million a year it was costing to mark time in the Championship’
It has certainly crossed my mind that being in League One and the incoming salary cap would reduce the amount Evans needs to put in, however the first part of that paragraph highlights the issue with that, as us becoming a League One club will reduce the value of the club significantly. If Evans still hopes to get whatever amount he would be comfortable selling at, it is in his interests for us to be as high in the pyramid as possible. Given that I still think he wants us to go up at all costs - the worry is that he doesn’t have the football nous to realise it isn’t going to happen without a (no doubt expensive) change |
Moreover, not only are outgoings reduced, but also income. TV money and Solidarity Payments are a fraction of those in the Champ (£1.4m against £6.9m, according to some figures I've seen), as are fees from any live games (of which there will be fewer in L1, anyway). Both individual ticket prices and attendance figures will be lower. Even sponsorship revenue is likely to decline. I don't think the annual financial situation will be eased as much as some people think. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 with 2683 views | Darth_Koont |
Agree with pretty much all that.
Also, considering Evans must have overseen the permanent and loan transfers in of around 150 players, I’m surprised that the penny hasn’t dropped that it’s about the individual quality of those players and not quantity in terms of over-stuffing a squad.
It wasn’t great to watch but Royle’s last season and Mick’s last couple were threadbare squads that used a lot of our home-grown youngsters, developing them as well as the bargain signings we could make, and yet we still managed to comfortably survive in the Championship. More by accident than design, these squads became (or would have become but for Hurst) important steps in a more long-term building approach.
But instead it rather seems as if the default approach is to try and reinvent the team every year or so and just bung players at the problem, which always seems to leave us heading in the wrong direction.
We just need to be much more careful and serious about developing players and a team and see new players (and managers) within that context, rather than a quick fix that in reality tends to botch the job. |  |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 with 2682 views | ketton_itfc |
Great words Steve, the truth hurts though..... |  | | |
| Indeed, it's remarkable that..... on 10:56 - Nov 25 with 2685 views | Bloots |
| If you could condense this..... on 10:53 - Nov 25 by SomethingBlue |
If only we had a Supporters' Trust that was was worthy of the name — and not one that blocked attempts to revive it a few years ago because certain people enjoyed having a "title" that they've subsequently done nothing with. I'm serious, moments like this are when a functioning Trust is needed badly. |
....the most realistic way that we have of getting a message "out there" in any sort of scale, is to get Sitters "ITFC Fan" twitter account to do it!
What a club. | |
| Elite Level Poster: Elite Level Supporter: Elite Level Human |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 with 2689 views | keighleyblue |
"Lambert has now had two attempts at promotion and failed at both."
Not actually true... his record is one failed attempt at the moment |  | | |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 with 2682 views | gordon |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:43 - Nov 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Great post as usual Steve. The only bit I would question is the below:
‘In the absence of a buyer willing to pay whatever Evans will settle for then he has to decide what level of spending he is comfortable with. The worry for us is that it might be at League One level rather than the £6 million a year it was costing to mark time in the Championship’
It has certainly crossed my mind that being in League One and the incoming salary cap would reduce the amount Evans needs to put in, however the first part of that paragraph highlights the issue with that, as us becoming a League One club will reduce the value of the club significantly. If Evans still hopes to get whatever amount he would be comfortable selling at, it is in his interests for us to be as high in the pyramid as possible. Given that I still think he wants us to go up at all costs - the worry is that he doesn’t have the football nous to realise it isn’t going to happen without a (no doubt expensive) change |
Pretty sure the club basically has no resale value unless in the Premier League, and that's wildly out of reach now - the prudent financial thing to do would be to cut expenses until it could be run at break-even, likely possible at League One standard, with a chance of promotion if those resources were really well utilised. |  | | |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 with 2679 views | davblue |
Evans won’t do anything on the running of the club or make the right decision on when to replace Lambert and who to replace him with.
On the football side his decision making is hopeless the club won’t go anywhere expect stagnate and eventually there’s a good chance we could get relegated again in the future from this division. People may think that’s an impossibility but I really think there is a chance that could happen with 10 more years of Evans’ ownership.
I will never criticise the amount of money he puts in but his decision making deserves plenty of criticism. |  | | |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:57 - Nov 25 with 2668 views | gordon |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 by keighleyblue |
"Lambert has now had two attempts at promotion and failed at both."
Not actually true... his record is one failed attempt at the moment |
Fair enough, but reasonable to conclude that this attempt is going to fail as well. | | | |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 11:15 - Nov 25 with 2580 views | Guthrum |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 by keighleyblue |
"Lambert has now had two attempts at promotion and failed at both."
Not actually true... his record is one failed attempt at the moment |
Most managers wouldn't have survived that following on from the failure to even mitigate relegation the season before (going from 5 points adrift of safety when he took over to still bottom and 13 points adrift). | |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 11:24 - Nov 25 with 2528 views | Steve_M |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:43 - Nov 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Great post as usual Steve. The only bit I would question is the below:
‘In the absence of a buyer willing to pay whatever Evans will settle for then he has to decide what level of spending he is comfortable with. The worry for us is that it might be at League One level rather than the £6 million a year it was costing to mark time in the Championship’
It has certainly crossed my mind that being in League One and the incoming salary cap would reduce the amount Evans needs to put in, however the first part of that paragraph highlights the issue with that, as us becoming a League One club will reduce the value of the club significantly. If Evans still hopes to get whatever amount he would be comfortable selling at, it is in his interests for us to be as high in the pyramid as possible. Given that I still think he wants us to go up at all costs - the worry is that he doesn’t have the football nous to realise it isn’t going to happen without a (no doubt expensive) change |
Yes, it's all down to the thinking of one man who doesn't open himself up for scrutiny. That's not a great situation for the club and probably saps even more of the enthusiasm from supporters.
There were strong rumours that ME was looking for £20m - £25m a few years ago but he also seemingly changed his mind about selling the club then. Who knows what he wants now? | |
| |
| Indeed, it's remarkable that..... on 11:27 - Nov 25 with 2502 views | Steve_M |
| Indeed, it's remarkable that..... on 10:56 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....the most realistic way that we have of getting a message "out there" in any sort of scale, is to get Sitters "ITFC Fan" twitter account to do it!
What a club. |
I've submitted it as a blog so it's more easily shareable once Phil posts it. Without matches it's difficult to spread much more than knee-jerk reactions around the wider fan base.
Maybe Asa could write a song. | |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 11:28 - Nov 25 with 2491 views | Steve_M |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 10:56 - Nov 25 by keighleyblue |
"Lambert has now had two attempts at promotion and failed at both."
Not actually true... his record is one failed attempt at the moment |
The subsequent sentence deals with this season. | |
| |
| I'll share it to my 9 followers..... on 11:34 - Nov 25 with 2448 views | Bloots |
| Indeed, it's remarkable that..... on 11:27 - Nov 25 by Steve_M |
I've submitted it as a blog so it's more easily shareable once Phil posts it. Without matches it's difficult to spread much more than knee-jerk reactions around the wider fan base.
Maybe Asa could write a song. |
...on twitter and encourage others to do the same.
I can't comment on Asa, I'll get banned again. | |
| Elite Level Poster: Elite Level Supporter: Elite Level Human |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 11:42 - Nov 25 with 2416 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 11:24 - Nov 25 by Steve_M |
Yes, it's all down to the thinking of one man who doesn't open himself up for scrutiny. That's not a great situation for the club and probably saps even more of the enthusiasm from supporters.
There were strong rumours that ME was looking for £20m - £25m a few years ago but he also seemingly changed his mind about selling the club then. Who knows what he wants now? |
Whatever it is presumably it’s a lot more than anyone has offered given there have never been any serious rumours of interest. Or he isn’t really interested in selling in which case you’d have to assume he’s happy to carry the lost
Either way, ultimately the clubs value, and the amount he would be able to get if he is open to selling is only headed one way unless we get ourselves back in the Championship [Post edited 25 Nov 2020 11:42]
| |
| |
| Indeed, it's remarkable that..... on 11:50 - Nov 25 with 2395 views | itfcjoe |
| Indeed, it's remarkable that..... on 11:27 - Nov 25 by Steve_M |
I've submitted it as a blog so it's more easily shareable once Phil posts it. Without matches it's difficult to spread much more than knee-jerk reactions around the wider fan base.
Maybe Asa could write a song. |
You should e-mail it to the club, I've sent something in to the powers that be there |  |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 11:52 - Nov 25 with 2379 views | GlasgowBlue |
Very well written. I don’t see how anyone could argue with that. |  |
| |
| As if you have 9 followers you silly sod on 11:54 - Nov 25 with 2370 views | Dyland |
| I'll share it to my 9 followers..... on 11:34 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
...on twitter and encourage others to do the same.
I can't comment on Asa, I'll get banned again. |
nft |  |
| |
| A few thoughts on where we are now on 12:00 - Nov 25 with 2352 views | TieDyedIn95 |
I agree with you on Evans but I don't see any manager getting anything out of this squad. They are average and massively overpaid for what they are offering at this level. Half of them can't even stay fit for a full season, which again falls on Evans and the overall budget for failing to provide adequate funding for this football club to bring in players who can actually stay fit and perform. I think only Judge, Chambers and Skuse have a promotion to the Championship between them from the current squad and those were years ago. That says it all about our recruitment over the past 2 years. We sank like a stone in the Championship because we had a League One squad/club a full year before we played in that division. Even in the weakest Championship season for years, where we could have stayed up had we just done a little more.... Evans hardly threw the kitchen sink at staying up because as you say, he's more than happy to do the bare minimum and keep losing a little. The fans always turn their attention to the managers.
The best thing we can all do is to stay home, not renew, don't buy the shirts or whatnot and let Evans swallow more losses until he either changes tact or moves on. He won't get any managerial appointment right, he will go the PR route and get someone like Dyer in, sell the assets to pay off Lambert and the circle continues. In 2 years time we'll be exactly in the same position or worse with Evans continuing as is.
Evans is the problem. |  |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
