| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. 08:26 - Feb 5 with 2120 views | Dubtractor |
Sunlit uplands etc. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:30 - Feb 5 with 1910 views | Herbivore |
Michael Gove is someone whose face I would never tire of punching. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 8:37]
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:35 - Feb 5 with 1883 views | Swansea_Blue |
Ah yes, but sovereignty, the tyrannical UK and fish.
The next few years are going to be grim aren't they? We're going to have all the Brexiteers u-turning and campaigning against Scottish independence. More lies and more culture war as if we haven't had enough of it all already. And the worse thing is it will still suck in the whole country even though it only applies directly to 5.5 million people. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:36 - Feb 5 with 1876 views | Steve_M |
I'm looking forward to the Brexiters and SNP now spending the next 18 months arguing the opposite case on Scottish Independence to that they did on Brexit. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:38 - Feb 5 with 1858 views | Herbivore |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:36 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
I'm looking forward to the Brexiters and SNP now spending the next 18 months arguing the opposite case on Scottish Independence to that they did on Brexit. |
It's a much easier argument for the SNP to be fair. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:47 - Feb 5 with 1839 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:38 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
It's a much easier argument for the SNP to be fair. |
Yep, the main thrust of the Brexiteer argument actually applies to the Scottish/UK case. That will definitely be lost on the Brexiteer Unionists though. Mind you, so does the Remain argument that we're stronger together.
I going to try to keep out of that argument as much as possible; it's for the Scotlanders to decide. It's certainly doable if they want it - plenty of smaller sovereign nation states around. I can see the negatives too though. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 with 1823 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:30 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
Michael Gove is someone whose face I would never tire of punching. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 8:37]
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How liberal of you. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 with 1822 views | Swansea_Blue |
As an aside, if you'll excuse the ad hominem attack, but is there a more duplicitous little sh*t weasel in politcs than Gove? He wouldn't know a principle if one reared up and bit him on the arse. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:56 - Feb 5 with 1800 views | Herbivore |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 by TieDyedIn95 |
How liberal of you. |
I wouldn't describe myself as a liberal. I would describe myself as someone who'd happily smack Michael Gove round the chops. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:59 - Feb 5 with 1785 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
As an aside, if you'll excuse the ad hominem attack, but is there a more duplicitous little sh*t weasel in politcs than Gove? He wouldn't know a principle if one reared up and bit him on the arse. |
That's because, like Bunter, he's a newspaper columnist, so can argue any side of an issue he feels like at the time - it's basically Government by op-ed... |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 09:03 - Feb 5 with 1763 views | Herbivore |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
As an aside, if you'll excuse the ad hominem attack, but is there a more duplicitous little sh*t weasel in politcs than Gove? He wouldn't know a principle if one reared up and bit him on the arse. |
He's awful. Subhuman. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 09:11 - Feb 5 with 1751 views | Steve_M |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:38 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
It's a much easier argument for the SNP to be fair. |
Hmmm, yes there's the whole emotional pull of the blame the English for everything and get away from Johnson but against that trying to separate England and Scotland will be even more disruptive than the last four years have been - trade barriers, arguments about currency and debt and probably a great big fence across the border.
I totally see why Brexit has changed the argument for Independence for many Scots but it will be painful for them. And the oil price now is rather less than it was back in 2014. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 09:21 - Feb 5 with 1727 views | Herbivore |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 09:11 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
Hmmm, yes there's the whole emotional pull of the blame the English for everything and get away from Johnson but against that trying to separate England and Scotland will be even more disruptive than the last four years have been - trade barriers, arguments about currency and debt and probably a great big fence across the border.
I totally see why Brexit has changed the argument for Independence for many Scots but it will be painful for them. And the oil price now is rather less than it was back in 2014. |
One of the cornerstones of the argument for staying in the last Indyref was membership of the EU, so it's pretty easy for the SNP to take the line that the argument has significantly changed because of Brexit. That's doubly so when the majority in Scotland voted remain. I don't doubt that independence would bring pain, but increasingly there is an appetite for it given how awful it is to be governed by the Tories in Westminster, and given the issue it EU membership. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 11:27 - Feb 5 with 1644 views | Darth_Koont |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:36 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
I'm looking forward to the Brexiters and SNP now spending the next 18 months arguing the opposite case on Scottish Independence to that they did on Brexit. |
Well, rather than pointing into a void of unexplained and unreasoned Make Britain Great Again b@ll@cks, we can point at Denmark and say, we want something even approaching that.
The gap between Denmark’s performance and Scotland’s is enormous – when Scotland has as much and often a lot more natural, human, cultural and global economic resources and potential. These Smaller European nations like the Nordic countries and Ireland were miles behind Scotland a century ago but have convincingly outstripped it since when they’ve been able to develop and engage on their own terms.
So hardly a pipe dream. What is a pipe dream is Scotland’s future improving when tied to the current British project and adrift from a major trading bloc. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 11:31 - Feb 5 with 1633 views | footers |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 by TieDyedIn95 |
How liberal of you. |
You've still not learnt what that word means, matey boy. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 11:39 - Feb 5 with 1601 views | footers |
Yeah, well the Scottish people are tired of listening to experts, Mr gove. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 11:45 - Feb 5 with 1580 views | monytowbray |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:30 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
Michael Gove is someone whose face I would never tire of punching. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 8:37]
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“So much for the tolerant left.” |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 11:46 - Feb 5 with 1577 views | monytowbray |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:50 - Feb 5 by TieDyedIn95 |
How liberal of you. |
Oh I was beaten to it by someone not even joking. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 13:17 - Feb 5 with 1493 views | tractordownsouth |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:47 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep, the main thrust of the Brexiteer argument actually applies to the Scottish/UK case. That will definitely be lost on the Brexiteer Unionists though. Mind you, so does the Remain argument that we're stronger together.
I going to try to keep out of that argument as much as possible; it's for the Scotlanders to decide. It's certainly doable if they want it - plenty of smaller sovereign nation states around. I can see the negatives too though. |
The economic arguments are largely similar which is why it's so odd that there are Brexiteer Unionists and SNP remainers.
The SNP has a slightly more valid argument when it comes to other countries making their laws - Scottish MPs usually vote differently to English MPs, whereas UK MEPs voted with the majority of the European Parliament almost 90% of the time. However, that argument could also be applied to London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool etc. Regardless, the one lesson the Unionist campaign can learn from Brexit is that as well as the economic case, they must spell out emotional reasons for why Scotland is better off in, because that's what got Vote Leave over the line. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 13:19 - Feb 5 with 1490 views | Herbivore |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 13:17 - Feb 5 by tractordownsouth |
The economic arguments are largely similar which is why it's so odd that there are Brexiteer Unionists and SNP remainers.
The SNP has a slightly more valid argument when it comes to other countries making their laws - Scottish MPs usually vote differently to English MPs, whereas UK MEPs voted with the majority of the European Parliament almost 90% of the time. However, that argument could also be applied to London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool etc. Regardless, the one lesson the Unionist campaign can learn from Brexit is that as well as the economic case, they must spell out emotional reasons for why Scotland is better off in, because that's what got Vote Leave over the line. |
The impression I get is that Scotland isn't against being part of a union, it would just prefer that union to be with the EU and not Little England. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 13:32 - Feb 5 with 1457 views | mo_itfc |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:30 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
Michael Gove is someone whose face I would never tire of punching. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 8:37]
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I'd be up for liberally punching him in the face!
Letting others join and and respecting someone's decision to not punch, but to kick! |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 16:03 - Feb 5 with 1378 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 08:36 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
I'm looking forward to the Brexiters and SNP now spending the next 18 months arguing the opposite case on Scottish Independence to that they did on Brexit. |
The real fun starts when Scotland gains Independence and Sturgeon then has to campaign against the Shetland Islands having a Referendum to either re-join the rest of the UK, go independent, or even to return to Norway. Or she has to let them go and lose a large chunk of territorial waters, including lots of oil. | | | |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 17:41 - Feb 5 with 1317 views | NewcyBlue |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 11:27 - Feb 5 by Darth_Koont |
Well, rather than pointing into a void of unexplained and unreasoned Make Britain Great Again b@ll@cks, we can point at Denmark and say, we want something even approaching that.
The gap between Denmark’s performance and Scotland’s is enormous – when Scotland has as much and often a lot more natural, human, cultural and global economic resources and potential. These Smaller European nations like the Nordic countries and Ireland were miles behind Scotland a century ago but have convincingly outstripped it since when they’ve been able to develop and engage on their own terms.
So hardly a pipe dream. What is a pipe dream is Scotland’s future improving when tied to the current British project and adrift from a major trading bloc. |
I can’t wait to apply for my Scottish passport.
I’m all for independence and reunification with the EU. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 17:57 - Feb 5 with 1270 views | J2BLUE |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 09:11 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
Hmmm, yes there's the whole emotional pull of the blame the English for everything and get away from Johnson but against that trying to separate England and Scotland will be even more disruptive than the last four years have been - trade barriers, arguments about currency and debt and probably a great big fence across the border.
I totally see why Brexit has changed the argument for Independence for many Scots but it will be painful for them. And the oil price now is rather less than it was back in 2014. |
Can't remember who it was but last time someone on here argued they should be allowed to cherry pick what they wanted (like the pound and the oil) and walk away from anything they didn't want (like the debt).
I'd quite like them to take independence. I think they'd do alright on their own and we're going to get this every few years until they finally go. |  |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 18:28 - Feb 5 with 1212 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 17:57 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
Can't remember who it was but last time someone on here argued they should be allowed to cherry pick what they wanted (like the pound and the oil) and walk away from anything they didn't want (like the debt).
I'd quite like them to take independence. I think they'd do alright on their own and we're going to get this every few years until they finally go. |
It would be an absolute nightmare to sort out. It's definitely doable; they do have some things going for them apart from battered Mars bars and getting pissed in an underpass on Buckfast Tonic. But what a mess to sort out.
I'm in the same mind as you on this. I'd quite like them to have a go to stand on their own. As I mentioned further up, there are many countries smaller that are independent states. Some who've also come out of abusive relationships. We had a holiday in Slovenia a couple of years ago and they're a less than half the size, had to split from Yugoslavia in the 90s, deal with wars on their doorstep and still came out ok. You wouldn't have met anyone there that was sad they weren't still dominated by a neighbouring state. | |
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| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 18:35 - Feb 5 with 1193 views | J2BLUE |
| Gove not even pretending that brexit will be good any more. on 18:28 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
It would be an absolute nightmare to sort out. It's definitely doable; they do have some things going for them apart from battered Mars bars and getting pissed in an underpass on Buckfast Tonic. But what a mess to sort out.
I'm in the same mind as you on this. I'd quite like them to have a go to stand on their own. As I mentioned further up, there are many countries smaller that are independent states. Some who've also come out of abusive relationships. We had a holiday in Slovenia a couple of years ago and they're a less than half the size, had to split from Yugoslavia in the 90s, deal with wars on their doorstep and still came out ok. You wouldn't have met anyone there that was sad they weren't still dominated by a neighbouring state. |
Abusive relationship is a bit harsh IMO. I know what you mean but that's a little unfair. | |
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