| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level 18:25 - Feb 20 with 2735 views | Mullet |
What made him so popular on here and across the fanbase has been the fuel on the fire, when it comes to things going against him. Having Covid at possibly the worst time and it clearly taking a toll on him meant he was battling to do his job when it was already too far gone to ever come back in the fans' estimations.
It must be incredibly hard to be a top footballer and it not translate into management. Where you can go to big clubs where you would have flourished as a player and fail as a manager is nothing new. We've seen it here with Roy, let alone countless others at other clubs. But to see every decision you make turn out for the worse must destroy even those with the mental and testicular fortitude it takes to reach the top.
Of course he's well paid, of course he could and should have walked a long time ago if he wanted to ingratiate himself just a little bit with us, but instead everything he's tried for good or ill has collpased on his head. He's been reduced to a sickly, mumbling, ninja in outdoor gear and it was tragic to watch. The man who inspired banners and bonding is long dead. His husk has been wafting about Ipswich for over a year now doing nothing.
I thought Northampton was the lowest we could go, so in a way today was undoubtedly a big improvement. But his quotes and demeanour long before today suggest he is just trying to set a narrative noone is believing or all that interested in.
When you've fallen out beyond repair with a player who was attracting bigger offers than most and the guy you've backed as the midfielder who emobodies yourself more than anyone else on the pitch and the kids have been sent out en masse, it's little surprise you see fight from whose left.
I wondered before the game if this side was largely those who hadn't fallen out with him at all or at least "too much" as to make picking them a loss of face. If that was the fight and desire needed we were always doomed anyway. Had this season been on track today would have been a frustrating blip, not a sign to Marcus of green shoots etc.
It's not just a really sad chapter in our club's history, but a worrying one. People who think it's the manager alone and not Evans might be much scarcer now, but getting rid of Lambert doesn't remove the bloke whose decisions and inertness have been the significant factors in making Mick the only decent period in his ownership.
We'll rip into Lambert's reputation and legacy for years to come, but how long can Evans keep getting it so badly wrong before he needs to be spoken about the past tense too? He's spent obscene amounts only to devalue every asset and facet of the club. He can't make this next roll of the dice another loser can he? But form suggests he will. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 18:44 - Feb 20 with 2241 views | patrickswell |
I so want Mick to take Cardiff up. Not to stick it to the fans who wanted him out but to stick it to Evans and hopefully convince him to get out. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 18:48 - Feb 20 with 2205 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 18:44 - Feb 20 by patrickswell |
I so want Mick to take Cardiff up. Not to stick it to the fans who wanted him out but to stick it to Evans and hopefully convince him to get out. |
Unfortunately, it wouldn't matter a jot as far as those people are concerned anyway. If they can't show contrition and embarrassment now without lashing out about getting it so wrong they never will. It was always the boardroom not the dugout where the problems lay, Hurst highlighted that when some would not hear a word against him even when it was plain to see.
I think Evans' terrible BCWYWF jibe was evidence enough it still pains him and hurts him, but he should have backed MM in 2015 and when he sold Murphy. Not standing in DM's way was admirable, but a decent owner would have also made sure we got in someone by spending the cash too.
Leon Best was a reckless gamble that blew up in all our faces. Problem is Evans' time is stacked with those. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 19:53 - Feb 20 with 2057 views | Guthrum |
A conclusion I came to during the Keane era was that some former top players managing in lower divisions simply fail to comprehend that footballers at that level are mostly incapable of matching the standards of the people they were used to working with - however much fierce driving or inspirational leading one might do. That is why they aren't at Prem clubs.
Lambert's constant talk of his past achievements reminded me of it. As if those should somehow be able to push the team to exceptional heights.
Whereas the formerly lesser players are used to it and can more easily concentrate on getting the technical, tactical and man-management stuff right, rather than relying on their own past example.
Obviously there will be exceptions on both sides, but those are my thoughts. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 20:11 - Feb 20 with 1979 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 18:44 - Feb 20 by patrickswell |
I so want Mick to take Cardiff up. Not to stick it to the fans who wanted him out but to stick it to Evans and hopefully convince him to get out. |
It wouldn't stick it to Evans at all. He would simply feel justified.
It is abundantly clear that Evans only didn't renew MM's contract because his position with the fans had become pretty much untenable. Evans has now learnt that lesson and will back a manager despite his position with the fans having become untenable.
He has always backed the wrong man. He got it right with MM but that is it. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 21:35 - Feb 20 with 1826 views | patrickswell |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 20:11 - Feb 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It wouldn't stick it to Evans at all. He would simply feel justified.
It is abundantly clear that Evans only didn't renew MM's contract because his position with the fans had become pretty much untenable. Evans has now learnt that lesson and will back a manager despite his position with the fans having become untenable.
He has always backed the wrong man. He got it right with MM but that is it. |
Oh, I’m sure that your middle paragraph reflects Evans’s muddled thinking all too well, but Mick winning promotion would hopefully show Evans”Give a good manager the tools and he will deliver”. Evans expected him to keep producing Tyrone Mings many times over and then went absent when this brilliant strategy started to unravel. | | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 23:03 - Feb 20 with 1694 views | Eireannach_gorm |
While most of the things you say are true the fact remains that the fans have some chance of getting rid of Lambert ( which would be good ) but none of getting rid of Evans ( which is a very bad thing ). |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 08:45 - Feb 21 with 1448 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 19:53 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
A conclusion I came to during the Keane era was that some former top players managing in lower divisions simply fail to comprehend that footballers at that level are mostly incapable of matching the standards of the people they were used to working with - however much fierce driving or inspirational leading one might do. That is why they aren't at Prem clubs.
Lambert's constant talk of his past achievements reminded me of it. As if those should somehow be able to push the team to exceptional heights.
Whereas the formerly lesser players are used to it and can more easily concentrate on getting the technical, tactical and man-management stuff right, rather than relying on their own past example.
Obviously there will be exceptions on both sides, but those are my thoughts. |
You see it in all manner of workplaces. I can think of several teachers who were outstanding in the classroom but as soon as they get promoted too high, they flounder. Likewise many of the senior leaders are terrible in the classroom, as they no longer have the day to day relationships with the kids or the regular practice of performing under fire etc. Same in office jobs etc. I've had. You get promoted to your level of incompetence right?
So much of the job is not just instructional, "here's how to improve your game". It's man-management, relationships, vision, on and off pitch stuff etc. If you are lacking in just one area, or your team is then you will fail.
I think Lambert had that determination and belief that didn't need to do that much, and when it became apparent he added to the mess he inherited, not fixed it he was always pushing uphill. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:05 - Feb 21 with 1378 views | mrshallisfit |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 08:45 - Feb 21 by Mullet |
You see it in all manner of workplaces. I can think of several teachers who were outstanding in the classroom but as soon as they get promoted too high, they flounder. Likewise many of the senior leaders are terrible in the classroom, as they no longer have the day to day relationships with the kids or the regular practice of performing under fire etc. Same in office jobs etc. I've had. You get promoted to your level of incompetence right?
So much of the job is not just instructional, "here's how to improve your game". It's man-management, relationships, vision, on and off pitch stuff etc. If you are lacking in just one area, or your team is then you will fail.
I think Lambert had that determination and belief that didn't need to do that much, and when it became apparent he added to the mess he inherited, not fixed it he was always pushing uphill. |
I cant feel any pity for Lambert. He isnt a very nice human. Check any of the employees at Norwich. He has only one care and that is for himself. He knows he is busted but he will resolve the current situation the best he can for himself. Screw the club. |  | | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:15 - Feb 21 with 1338 views | mrshallisfit |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:05 - Feb 21 by mrshallisfit |
I cant feel any pity for Lambert. He isnt a very nice human. Check any of the employees at Norwich. He has only one care and that is for himself. He knows he is busted but he will resolve the current situation the best he can for himself. Screw the club. |
And remember he is getting a gentle ride at the moment due to Covid. | | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:21 - Feb 21 with 1317 views | WeWereZombies |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 08:45 - Feb 21 by Mullet |
You see it in all manner of workplaces. I can think of several teachers who were outstanding in the classroom but as soon as they get promoted too high, they flounder. Likewise many of the senior leaders are terrible in the classroom, as they no longer have the day to day relationships with the kids or the regular practice of performing under fire etc. Same in office jobs etc. I've had. You get promoted to your level of incompetence right?
So much of the job is not just instructional, "here's how to improve your game". It's man-management, relationships, vision, on and off pitch stuff etc. If you are lacking in just one area, or your team is then you will fail.
I think Lambert had that determination and belief that didn't need to do that much, and when it became apparent he added to the mess he inherited, not fixed it he was always pushing uphill. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
Only at Ipswich it is The Paul Principle. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:26 - Feb 21 with 1291 views | Churchman |
I don’t feel in the least bit sorry for Lambert. Highly paid, given time and even a ‘free pass’ for the first 6 months of his time here. But he has proven utterly clueless. There are not many jobs where you would last as long as he has doing it that badly. There aren’t many football clubs either that wouldn’t have fired him by now.
As for Evans, he of course is the root cause of the clubs demise following Sheepshanks’ disastrous decisions. Disinterested, disconnected and clueless, there is nothing about ME as a football club owner that’s good. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:33 - Feb 21 with 1261 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 23:03 - Feb 20 by Eireannach_gorm |
While most of the things you say are true the fact remains that the fans have some chance of getting rid of Lambert ( which would be good ) but none of getting rid of Evans ( which is a very bad thing ). |
Of course, but ultimately as much as there were fans patting themselves on the back for a long time after Mick went, the ultimate decision is Evans'. He's shown he hasn't listened to the fans much at all.
If we remove Evans now somehow, the club folds like a house of cards anyway. That's why these takeover rumours tantilise right? | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:36 - Feb 21 with 1250 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:05 - Feb 21 by mrshallisfit |
I cant feel any pity for Lambert. He isnt a very nice human. Check any of the employees at Norwich. He has only one care and that is for himself. He knows he is busted but he will resolve the current situation the best he can for himself. Screw the club. |
But who wouldn't do the same? His only partiality to us was the chance was to stick two fingers up at Nodge. He's not inhuman for self-preservation regardless of all the obvious flaws we can see.
He's been a terrible fraud in many ways, but I don't think he was entirely cynical or deluded at least initially. It's pretty clear we are suffering because he is, and as we all agree his career is surely done after this.
That said seeing him speak, his body language, his treatment of others makes me see a man at the end of his tether and completely in over his head. That's pretty tragic in isolation. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:44 - Feb 21 with 1233 views | Radlett_blue |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 19:53 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
A conclusion I came to during the Keane era was that some former top players managing in lower divisions simply fail to comprehend that footballers at that level are mostly incapable of matching the standards of the people they were used to working with - however much fierce driving or inspirational leading one might do. That is why they aren't at Prem clubs.
Lambert's constant talk of his past achievements reminded me of it. As if those should somehow be able to push the team to exceptional heights.
Whereas the formerly lesser players are used to it and can more easily concentrate on getting the technical, tactical and man-management stuff right, rather than relying on their own past example.
Obviously there will be exceptions on both sides, but those are my thoughts. |
Lambert played football at a high level (I think we all know that by now) but he worked his way up the managerial level, starting as a player manager at Livingston (very unsuccessful) but then having successful spells at Wycombe & Colchester before taking Norwich up through 2 divisions. This shows that dealing with lesser talented, lower league footballers hasn't been an issue for him so trotting that out as an excuse is absurd.
After his successes, Lambert got a bigger & better job at Villa, which he struggled with & also fell out with many players, making then train with the U23's (sounds familiar). He failed to win more games than he lost at each of his next 3 jobs, none of which lasted as long as a season. A clear pattern here - a man who seems no longer able to handle the pressure of managing a professional football club. This sits well with Town's performances over the past 2 seasons - good start to the season, but as soon as things go wrong, Lambert can't cope & starts inventing all sorts of excuses.
I thought he was a poor appointment at the time, but I didn't realise quite how poor. I think he knows he won't get, probably doesn't need & in his heart of hearts doesn't want another managerial job so he's grimly hanging on for his pay off from Evans. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:49 - Feb 21 with 1209 views | pointofblue |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:36 - Feb 21 by Mullet |
But who wouldn't do the same? His only partiality to us was the chance was to stick two fingers up at Nodge. He's not inhuman for self-preservation regardless of all the obvious flaws we can see.
He's been a terrible fraud in many ways, but I don't think he was entirely cynical or deluded at least initially. It's pretty clear we are suffering because he is, and as we all agree his career is surely done after this.
That said seeing him speak, his body language, his treatment of others makes me see a man at the end of his tether and completely in over his head. That's pretty tragic in isolation. |
But as the OP said he could easily get himself out of it. To put it harshly, if he’s putting the cash ahead of his own mental health then that’s his look out and I won’t feel sorry for him because of it UNLESS Evans is doing a Jewell on him and pressurising him to stay. If that’s the case then I couldn’t feel more sympathy for him. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:51 - Feb 21 with 1201 views | footers |
Excellent reference. How apt, how sad. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:51 - Feb 21 with 1202 views | Keaneish |
What you’re effectively saying is that you feel sorry for him for being a bad manager. I have no sympathy or empathy for any ex-player who can’t convert their football ability into coaching, that’s the job! Lambert has shown all too often that he comes up short against managers tactically and he doesn’t have the ability to develop players. These two things combined with the apparent inability to unify the dressing room and his arrogance make him unfit for the role. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:52 - Feb 21 with 1198 views | RadioOrwell |
Can't go with that at all.
He's stealing a living.
I know Evans is bad but that doesn't make a positive case for Lambert.
Evans should certainly have sacked him at least a year ago.
But watching Lambert hang on till he gets sacked and a payout ( when he knows he's made a pigs ear of things ) is appalling. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:57 - Feb 21 with 1181 views | StokieBlue |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 19:53 - Feb 20 by Guthrum |
A conclusion I came to during the Keane era was that some former top players managing in lower divisions simply fail to comprehend that footballers at that level are mostly incapable of matching the standards of the people they were used to working with - however much fierce driving or inspirational leading one might do. That is why they aren't at Prem clubs.
Lambert's constant talk of his past achievements reminded me of it. As if those should somehow be able to push the team to exceptional heights.
Whereas the formerly lesser players are used to it and can more easily concentrate on getting the technical, tactical and man-management stuff right, rather than relying on their own past example.
Obviously there will be exceptions on both sides, but those are my thoughts. |
I think this is a pretty key point. Managers who were good players (not all by any means) often get frustrated by their players.
It reminds me of this clip of Hoddle training Moncur at Swindon. Hoddle is trying to be nice about it but I suspect deep down he's frustrated that Moncur isn't able to do something that he's finding effortless.
SB |  |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 10:22 - Feb 21 with 1149 views | mrshallisfit |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:36 - Feb 21 by Mullet |
But who wouldn't do the same? His only partiality to us was the chance was to stick two fingers up at Nodge. He's not inhuman for self-preservation regardless of all the obvious flaws we can see.
He's been a terrible fraud in many ways, but I don't think he was entirely cynical or deluded at least initially. It's pretty clear we are suffering because he is, and as we all agree his career is surely done after this.
That said seeing him speak, his body language, his treatment of others makes me see a man at the end of his tether and completely in over his head. That's pretty tragic in isolation. |
Yes in isolation. But the context is (a) He is an unlikable human being (b) Its my club going down the toilet. | | | |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 10:31 - Feb 21 with 1118 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:57 - Feb 21 by StokieBlue |
I think this is a pretty key point. Managers who were good players (not all by any means) often get frustrated by their players.
It reminds me of this clip of Hoddle training Moncur at Swindon. Hoddle is trying to be nice about it but I suspect deep down he's frustrated that Moncur isn't able to do something that he's finding effortless.
SB |
There's a really good Quickly Kevin where you find out Moncur was another player in the Gazza/Bullard joker mould and did loads of stupid stuff at training wherever he went too. It's probably telling Hoddle is most remembered on and off the field for his England stint I guess. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 10:33 - Feb 21 with 1112 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:49 - Feb 21 by pointofblue |
But as the OP said he could easily get himself out of it. To put it harshly, if he’s putting the cash ahead of his own mental health then that’s his look out and I won’t feel sorry for him because of it UNLESS Evans is doing a Jewell on him and pressurising him to stay. If that’s the case then I couldn’t feel more sympathy for him. |
That assumes cash is his only motivation, not ego, pride or desperation to prove himself which is a common flaw of top athletes once they can no longer compete and move on. That's quite an important distinction. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 10:35 - Feb 21 with 1104 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 09:52 - Feb 21 by RadioOrwell |
Can't go with that at all.
He's stealing a living.
I know Evans is bad but that doesn't make a positive case for Lambert.
Evans should certainly have sacked him at least a year ago.
But watching Lambert hang on till he gets sacked and a payout ( when he knows he's made a pigs ear of things ) is appalling. |
"I know Evans is bad but that doesn't make a positive case for Lambert." that isn't the entirity of what we're talking about though is it?
I agree on your last sentence, but who would walk away from that kind of money? Especially when most of us will not earn that in years of working. Let alone this will be his last job. It's very easy for fans to spend other people's money such is the vast sums involved. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 10:51 - Feb 21 with 1063 views | Keaneish |
| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 10:35 - Feb 21 by Mullet |
"I know Evans is bad but that doesn't make a positive case for Lambert." that isn't the entirity of what we're talking about though is it?
I agree on your last sentence, but who would walk away from that kind of money? Especially when most of us will not earn that in years of working. Let alone this will be his last job. It's very easy for fans to spend other people's money such is the vast sums involved. |
I’m fairly sure over they years PL has amassed enough to retire on very comfortably. When is enough enough though? With each passing day he loses more dignity and respect. Jewell bowed out with honour in my opinion and McCarthy likewise despite the bitterness that existed. Lambert has had plenty of opportunity to do the same but his ego won’t let him. | |
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| I feel sorry for Paul Lambert on one level on 11:02 - Feb 21 with 1038 views | judespiveyg |
I agree with a lot of that, Lambert obviously needs to go but the problems definitely go deeper than him.
I'm always torn on the length of time Evans gives managers, on one hand I kind of like that he's patient in the age of some clubs sacking a manager every three months, but other than Hurst and maybe Keane who were both sacked at the right time Evans has hung on too long after it's obvious he hasn't got the right man. Jewell tried to resign after 11/12, 16/17 proved McCarthy had taken us as far as he could and Lambert's burnt too many bridges to turn it around now. All three were kept past the point they should have been. |  |
| I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton |
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