| An utter mess of a performance last night 07:39 - Nov 24 with 2229 views | Steve_M |
The team selection was bizarre, the three behind Bonne has been erratic all season and Cook seems to be randomly juggling those at times. Certainly the lack of physicality and pace from Celina, Fraser and Chaplin in together made little sense. Granted Aluko was absent but playing Burns against Oldham hasn't helped with our managing of his injury.
Bailey Clements struggled against Sunderland on Saturday so the play him for the fourth match in ten days was poor management and completely unfair on him. I thought he had a decent enough first half but was struggling in the second. And so Cook had to waste a sub to replace him.
Bonne is also a problem at the moment, isolated and increasingly frustrated up front, I did wonder whether yesterday might be a match to start Pigott and, certainly in hindsight, it was the latter who caused Rotherham slightly more problems.
Not that that was a lot. We were poor from the start, lucky not to concede for as long as we did and only - very - sporadically did we ever put enough passing together to start to threaten The little spell from Fraser when we went 4-3-3 at the start of the second half stood out but, other than a couple of balls across the box, we never looked like scoring. And the abject defending for their second goal made the last half hour a non-event.
Rotherham were good though, well organised and moved the ball at pace. Yes, bits of cynicism but in all honesty they didn't need to do much of that. The contrast between watching them and Oxford off the ball and the shambles we too often are is very stark.
Three weeks ago we went to Wycombe and produced an excellent away performance against one of the division's better sides. Since then we've stumbled past two fourth division sides in cup completions and failed to score in three matches against three of the better sides in the division (well, two of them were Sunderland were abysmal). Four points from the last five matches is very telling of where we are at the moment.
And that is nowhere near where this squad be. Cook hid behind last season's players and achieved worse results with them than Lambert did. Then with the pick of players for this division and a budget probably bigger than everyone bar Sunderland he's stumbled around for three months and the team looks less cohesive than back in August.
Six wins from 19 matches this season, 10 from 35 in total. The three away wins this season have been good but at home we've only beaten three of the bottom four. This is the third division and we are not very good at being in it. I can't really see much difference between last night and matches like Hull and Charlton this time last year, indeed Hull was a year ago this week and I've just re-read my blog I wrote afterwards.
And yet everything has changed, the club is in such a better position than a year ago except for one crucial aspect. The manager and his inadequate coaching team are failing again and should be replaced as soon as possible.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/blogs/21848/cycle-of-hurt/#0
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:51 - Nov 24 with 1927 views | rfretwell |
Yet we played a table topping Hull off the park at their place late last season. Until a team can string consistently good performances together results will be erratic. Just like ours currently. |  | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:53 - Nov 24 with 1918 views | Oldboy |
Shouldn't matter. According to those who know, we have the best squad in the league. Any one of them should be able to come in and perform.
The reality is, this squad is good, just not the best and our manager has no idea how to get the best out of them.
Would a new manager be able to turn it around?
Yes I think they would, but with a few additional players. We need a seasoned professional CB along side Eddy. We need someone who can take a game by the scruff. Morsy was meant to be that player, but so far isn't. We all saw last night that we are lacking leadership, both on and off the pitch. |  | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:55 - Nov 24 with 1907 views | tractorboy1978 |
Bonne looked lost last night. It was obvious before kick off the team selection had zero width/attacking drive, either from full backs or wingers, yet he was playing as if balls were going to be flashing across the box. We had the ball in central areas so often and he just wasn't looking for the ball slid down the side. Hard to be critical though when we are playing different players with different attributes in those 3 behind him and at full back every week. | | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:56 - Nov 24 with 1881 views | Dubtractor |
The attacking midfield 3 issues were compounded by the full backs on the night.
With the lack of pace, and tendency to cut inside, of fraser and celina it was essential that the full backs were good on the ball and looked to bomb on, but that didn't happen at all. clements and Donacien were prob our weakest players on the night, but in fairness neither are really attacking full backs.
I guess I'm saying we were set up to fail and were incredibly easy to defend against. Rotherham just needed to be positionally disciplined to stop us. Celina was the only player who really tried to commit players, or run with the ball, and it didn't really come off for him. |  |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:57 - Nov 24 with 1870 views | chicoazul |
Very hard to argue. Cook does seem to have cocked it up in the last couple of weeks. I’ll just say what I usually say; every time we change the manager things get worse. So I think we should persevere until well after Xmas.
If it’s still the same then make a change. |  |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:10 - Nov 24 with 1787 views | ITFC_Forever |
A couple of steps backwards last night.... |  |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:11 - Nov 24 with 1787 views | Steve_M |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:55 - Nov 24 by tractorboy1978 |
Bonne looked lost last night. It was obvious before kick off the team selection had zero width/attacking drive, either from full backs or wingers, yet he was playing as if balls were going to be flashing across the box. We had the ball in central areas so often and he just wasn't looking for the ball slid down the side. Hard to be critical though when we are playing different players with different attributes in those 3 behind him and at full back every week. |
Yep, you and Dub are both correct about the lack of attacking threat from the full backs. Penney's use of the ball wasn't great when he came on last night but he did start to ffer us a lot more than Clements could. And, Donacien, for all his decent games recently just isn't the same attacking threat someone like KVY is. It was, again, all obvious pre-match.
Toto is also something of a liability at the moment. He's so uncomfortable on the ball that he's put under pressure instantly. We really can't have expected to have three of this back four playing., We spent a lot of money on Burgess who looks like a bit of a panic signing but might still come good and Cook has clearly decided not to play Wolfenden even though he and Burgess were fine as a pairing earlier in the season.
A mess. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:19 - Nov 24 with 1721 views | homer_123 |
I would say that it 'looked' easy for Rotherham last night but that was down, in no small part, to the fact that they knew individually and collectively exactly what they needed to do to beat us.
Their work rate 'off the ball' was evident and excellent last night, denying time and space on the ball, particularly in the midfield but also on the likes of Nsiala and Morsy. This ensured we never really put them under any kind of pressure. They also had the ability to knock the ball about well and create opportunities against us.
They were extremely organised and we had no answer, either from the players on the park or from Cook and the team from the sidelines.
You asked last night - had we gelled yet. The utterly mad thing is, loads of these current players have played for Cook, played together and played this system - yet, unlike Rotherham we look lost at times, our communication seems poor and the players don't seem to know what each other as doing. Which is crazy! |  |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:20 - Nov 24 with 1700 views | homer_123 |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:51 - Nov 24 by rfretwell |
Yet we played a table topping Hull off the park at their place late last season. Until a team can string consistently good performances together results will be erratic. Just like ours currently. |
Under Cook we've won no more than 2 games on the bounce I believe. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:27 - Nov 24 with 1664 views | BlueBadger |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 07:53 - Nov 24 by Oldboy |
Shouldn't matter. According to those who know, we have the best squad in the league. Any one of them should be able to come in and perform.
The reality is, this squad is good, just not the best and our manager has no idea how to get the best out of them.
Would a new manager be able to turn it around?
Yes I think they would, but with a few additional players. We need a seasoned professional CB along side Eddy. We need someone who can take a game by the scruff. Morsy was meant to be that player, but so far isn't. We all saw last night that we are lacking leadership, both on and off the pitch. |
LOL. |  |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:31 - Nov 24 with 1630 views | Oldboy |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:27 - Nov 24 by BlueBadger |
LOL. |
I say we need a seasoned professional CB. You say LOL.
Last night you said Toto isn't very good. I am a bit confused. | | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:32 - Nov 24 with 1615 views | Lightworker |
Great summary and 100% agree Steve. We need to be ruthless and stop accepting mediocrity at this club. Cook's record is awful and there are no signs he is going to turn it around, he needs to go today.
We need a manager like Warne who knows how to build a win machine at this level, I don't care how pretty the football is. The first phase of this project is to get out of the third division and we don't look even remotely close to that at present. |  | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:33 - Nov 24 with 1609 views | BlueBadger |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:31 - Nov 24 by Oldboy |
I say we need a seasoned professional CB. You say LOL.
Last night you said Toto isn't very good. I am a bit confused. |
I'm chuckling because only 24 hours ago, you were calling for our failed manager to get more time and money. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:33 - Nov 24 with 1595 views | pointofblue |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:19 - Nov 24 by homer_123 |
I would say that it 'looked' easy for Rotherham last night but that was down, in no small part, to the fact that they knew individually and collectively exactly what they needed to do to beat us.
Their work rate 'off the ball' was evident and excellent last night, denying time and space on the ball, particularly in the midfield but also on the likes of Nsiala and Morsy. This ensured we never really put them under any kind of pressure. They also had the ability to knock the ball about well and create opportunities against us.
They were extremely organised and we had no answer, either from the players on the park or from Cook and the team from the sidelines.
You asked last night - had we gelled yet. The utterly mad thing is, loads of these current players have played for Cook, played together and played this system - yet, unlike Rotherham we look lost at times, our communication seems poor and the players don't seem to know what each other as doing. Which is crazy! |
We didn’t look like when knew what we were doing because we were trying to play Cook’s usual approach without the players on the pitch to do it. In order to facilitate his tactics you need attacking full backs and proper wide players to compliment them. Instead we had three number tens - with the one player who could play on the left instead out on the right - and two defensive full backs.
It was an absolute tactical failure from a man whose lack of Plan B is strangling us. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:35 - Nov 24 with 1581 views | homer_123 |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:32 - Nov 24 by Lightworker |
Great summary and 100% agree Steve. We need to be ruthless and stop accepting mediocrity at this club. Cook's record is awful and there are no signs he is going to turn it around, he needs to go today.
We need a manager like Warne who knows how to build a win machine at this level, I don't care how pretty the football is. The first phase of this project is to get out of the third division and we don't look even remotely close to that at present. |
Rotherham, as I said las night:
"Joking aside...Rotherham are a very decent mix of hustle, bustle, directness but with players that can actually play some football."
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:38 - Nov 24 with 1555 views | Oldboy |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:33 - Nov 24 by BlueBadger |
I'm chuckling because only 24 hours ago, you were calling for our failed manager to get more time and money. |
Wasn't calling for it, but think he will be. I do not run ITFC and those that do have indicated that he will be given time. Whether I think that is right or not is irrelevant. I was saying yesterday that the squad isn't as good as some think, that is all. I am sure after last night's performance, there will be more questions asked. | | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:39 - Nov 24 with 1551 views | Steve_M |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:19 - Nov 24 by homer_123 |
I would say that it 'looked' easy for Rotherham last night but that was down, in no small part, to the fact that they knew individually and collectively exactly what they needed to do to beat us.
Their work rate 'off the ball' was evident and excellent last night, denying time and space on the ball, particularly in the midfield but also on the likes of Nsiala and Morsy. This ensured we never really put them under any kind of pressure. They also had the ability to knock the ball about well and create opportunities against us.
They were extremely organised and we had no answer, either from the players on the park or from Cook and the team from the sidelines.
You asked last night - had we gelled yet. The utterly mad thing is, loads of these current players have played for Cook, played together and played this system - yet, unlike Rotherham we look lost at times, our communication seems poor and the players don't seem to know what each other as doing. Which is crazy! |
"I would say that it 'looked' easy for Rotherham last night but that was down, in no small part, to the fact that they knew individually and collectively exactly what they needed to do to beat us."
Yes, hard work in advance pays off. They also had the confidence that they expected things to come off when they tried them.
In contrast, I think it's only really the Doncaster and Portsmouth matches where we've made it look that easy, and both of those were really poor on the night. Even against Doncaster we had that spell after halftime where for 20 minutes we looked uncertain.
It's really hard to square Cook's time here with his previous success. I don't think that was the case with Jewell - streaky but his good streaks here were good, they just lasted longer and Bradford & Wigan - or even Lambert - started highly motivated, lost interest and motivation. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:41 - Nov 24 with 1523 views | homer_123 |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:33 - Nov 24 by pointofblue |
We didn’t look like when knew what we were doing because we were trying to play Cook’s usual approach without the players on the pitch to do it. In order to facilitate his tactics you need attacking full backs and proper wide players to compliment them. Instead we had three number tens - with the one player who could play on the left instead out on the right - and two defensive full backs.
It was an absolute tactical failure from a man whose lack of Plan B is strangling us. |
Yep, very odd team selection no question - would it have been different had we played KVY or Penney or Edwards, from the off?
To be honest, I'm not sure. Rotherham are a very good team, we have very good players. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:56 - Nov 24 with 1452 views | Herbivore |
It was a shocking performance. A really incoherent team selection that translated into an abject and disjointed performance. Clements needed a rest, he wasn't any worse than a few others, but asking him to play a 4th game in 10 days was too much. KVY and Penney were fit enough to be on the bench so why not start one of them? And playing three number 10s was just bizarre, especially when you've got full backs who aren't likely to overlap and provide an attacking threat.
I can remember when a 0-1 home defeat to Rotherham was considered the nadir of ITFC performances. We've plumbed new depths of sh!te just in subsequent home games to Rotherham, let alone in some of the other abject performances we've suffered through these past few years. It's really draining, us being so crap for so long. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 9:14]
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 09:14 - Nov 24 with 1341 views | Stadiumofdark |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:56 - Nov 24 by Herbivore |
It was a shocking performance. A really incoherent team selection that translated into an abject and disjointed performance. Clements needed a rest, he wasn't any worse than a few others, but asking him to play a 4th game in 10 days was too much. KVY and Penney were fit enough to be on the bench so why not start one of them? And playing three number 10s was just bizarre, especially when you've got full backs who aren't likely to overlap and provide an attacking threat.
I can remember when a 0-1 home defeat to Rotherham was considered the nadir of ITFC performances. We've plumbed new depths of sh!te just in subsequent home games to Rotherham, let alone in some of the other abject performances we've suffered through these past few years. It's really draining, us being so crap for so long. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 9:14]
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upvoted:
a) because I agree
b) because you'd managed to work in "NADIR" and "DRAIN". Lovely wordsmanship |  | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 10:05 - Nov 24 with 1209 views | SomethingBlue |
Good post and accurate summary of where things are. What a shame, this club has had so many false dawns over the past 15 years and there was such a chance to use the momentum of the Wycombe game and really push on. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 09:43 - Nov 25 with 935 views | tractorboy1978 |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 08:11 - Nov 24 by Steve_M |
Yep, you and Dub are both correct about the lack of attacking threat from the full backs. Penney's use of the ball wasn't great when he came on last night but he did start to ffer us a lot more than Clements could. And, Donacien, for all his decent games recently just isn't the same attacking threat someone like KVY is. It was, again, all obvious pre-match.
Toto is also something of a liability at the moment. He's so uncomfortable on the ball that he's put under pressure instantly. We really can't have expected to have three of this back four playing., We spent a lot of money on Burgess who looks like a bit of a panic signing but might still come good and Cook has clearly decided not to play Wolfenden even though he and Burgess were fine as a pairing earlier in the season.
A mess. |
Nsiala isn't good enough, he's always two seconds away from an error. How a defender can reach 29 and 350 career appearances and still not realise you shouldn't let the ball bounce is amazing. And as you say, poor on the ball.
I think Cook is tying himself in knots at the moment. I posted this elsewhere I don't know how you can line up at Wycombe with Coulson/KVY at full back and Edwards/Burns wide and then Tuesday with Clements/Donacien and Fraser/Celina in front of them, and expect to play in exactly the same way.
Penney has his defensive faults but until Coulson is fit he needs to be playing at LB and KVY needs to be at RB. Perhaps slot Donacien in at centre half alongside Edmundson. | | | |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 10:04 - Nov 25 with 866 views | Steve_M |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 09:43 - Nov 25 by tractorboy1978 |
Nsiala isn't good enough, he's always two seconds away from an error. How a defender can reach 29 and 350 career appearances and still not realise you shouldn't let the ball bounce is amazing. And as you say, poor on the ball.
I think Cook is tying himself in knots at the moment. I posted this elsewhere I don't know how you can line up at Wycombe with Coulson/KVY at full back and Edwards/Burns wide and then Tuesday with Clements/Donacien and Fraser/Celina in front of them, and expect to play in exactly the same way.
Penney has his defensive faults but until Coulson is fit he needs to be playing at LB and KVY needs to be at RB. Perhaps slot Donacien in at centre half alongside Edmundson. |
" I don't know how you can line up at Wycombe with Coulson/KVY at full back and Edwards/Burns wide and then Tuesday with Clements/Donacien and Fraser/Celina in front of them, and expect to play in exactly the same way."
Actually, that is a key point here pithily summed up isn't it? Exactly the same approach with such a variation in line up and then being surprised that it doesn't work. | |
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 10:27 - Nov 25 with 799 views | tractorboy1978 |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 10:04 - Nov 25 by Steve_M |
" I don't know how you can line up at Wycombe with Coulson/KVY at full back and Edwards/Burns wide and then Tuesday with Clements/Donacien and Fraser/Celina in front of them, and expect to play in exactly the same way."
Actually, that is a key point here pithily summed up isn't it? Exactly the same approach with such a variation in line up and then being surprised that it doesn't work. |
Yep. It's bizarre in the sense we religiously play 4-2-3-1 yet we don't have any consistent way of playing! How on earth can you build a side or practice patterns of play when you continually chop and change full backs and attacking players with totally different attributes? For me we need a run of:
Walton
KVY-Donacien/Woolf-Edmundson-Penney (Coulson if fit)
Morsy-Evans
Burns-Chaplin/Celina-Edwards
Bonne
Two 'Paul Cook' full backs, two proper wingers. You may have unhappy players but you need to get a settled side in your preferred style. We look miles better when we have proper width, directness, pace and Evans can stretch the game with those raking cross field balls. It also gets the best from Bonne, who is a penalty box striker and not one that wants to be getting involved in link up play, running channels etc. [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 10:31]
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| An utter mess of a performance last night on 11:08 - Nov 25 with 724 views | LankHenners |
| An utter mess of a performance last night on 10:27 - Nov 25 by tractorboy1978 |
Yep. It's bizarre in the sense we religiously play 4-2-3-1 yet we don't have any consistent way of playing! How on earth can you build a side or practice patterns of play when you continually chop and change full backs and attacking players with totally different attributes? For me we need a run of:
Walton
KVY-Donacien/Woolf-Edmundson-Penney (Coulson if fit)
Morsy-Evans
Burns-Chaplin/Celina-Edwards
Bonne
Two 'Paul Cook' full backs, two proper wingers. You may have unhappy players but you need to get a settled side in your preferred style. We look miles better when we have proper width, directness, pace and Evans can stretch the game with those raking cross field balls. It also gets the best from Bonne, who is a penalty box striker and not one that wants to be getting involved in link up play, running channels etc. [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 10:31]
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Yep, have been thinking that people are getting a bit carried away with the whole ‘he’s too wedded to 4231’ ‘why not 2 up front’ etc. when the reality is we just simply don’t play the 4231 well enough in the first place.
Wycombe was the blueprint. Yes, Burgess having to play LB for most of the game may have been a blessing in disguise but it showed that if you get pace down the wings you can stretch play and free up the central attacking midfielder to impact the game.
Certain tactical tweaks may be needed (e.g. some games may require Aluko’s ability to keep possession) but in general Cook should really know what he’s doing and not faff around with it unnecessary.
You’re right on Bonne and it’s a shame Burns is injured as his ability to pick Bonne out at the back stick was very very effective.
If he can’t play his first choice full backs for whatever reason he needs to work out a different way to make the formation effective. We know JD is a good defensive full back but isn’t the same going forwards, consistently anyway. It’s also a lot of ask of Clements so there are some games where maybe you put Harper in instead of Evans as he can break the lines through carrying the ball and is quite press resistant which may have helped against a team like Rotherham.
In general it’s like he’s stuck between his ideals and trying to fit everyone he likes into the team which isn’t helping anybody. |  |
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