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And you were meant to, it was a frivolous idea. However, I've since discovered this podcast... and the idea pf Panpsychism.
Essentially, the idea is that EVERYTHING has a form of consciousness, just that some things have it on a much more complex level (i.e. humans) than other things (i.e the molecules in a brick). It's a fundamental property of everything, at a molecular level.
It makes sense - because if you trace life all the way back to its origins, then consciousness MUST'VE been on a very small, very basic level. As with life, consciousness must've emerged from non-life, and it must've been very very basic (initially), evolving over millions of years (in some things) to a point where you're experiencing this sentence. The fact that it emerged at all suggests it could be a basic property of everything.
That's what I took from it, anyway. Any of you science buffs know more on the subject?
It's a long podcast but very interesting.
[Post edited 16 Feb 2022 16:54]
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:10 - Feb 16 with 2415 views
I've got too much on at the moment (see my battle to save cow's milk on another thread) so, may I ask if the concept of 'emergence', err, emerges in this podcast?
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:11 - Feb 16 by Cotty
It's a work of fiction, so it's not of scientific interest.
You're incorrect. It's already of scientific interest: "In 2021, the Journal of Consciousness Studies featured Goff's work as the topic of 20 essays by scientists, philosophers, and theologians."
Philip Goff is a philosopher, not a science fiction writer and it's an interesting idea. Surely scientific investigations start in ideas? Surely philosophy leads to scientific interest? You'd have to be very closed minded to just say "it's not of scientific interest" and end it there.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:25 - Feb 16 with 2336 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:20 - Feb 16 by WeWereZombies
I've got too much on at the moment (see my battle to save cow's milk on another thread) so, may I ask if the concept of 'emergence', err, emerges in this podcast?
Depends what you mean, lots of things have emergent properties.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:28 - Feb 16 with 2328 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:23 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile
You're incorrect. It's already of scientific interest: "In 2021, the Journal of Consciousness Studies featured Goff's work as the topic of 20 essays by scientists, philosophers, and theologians."
Philip Goff is a philosopher, not a science fiction writer and it's an interesting idea. Surely scientific investigations start in ideas? Surely philosophy leads to scientific interest? You'd have to be very closed minded to just say "it's not of scientific interest" and end it there.
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:25 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile
Depends what you mean, lots of things have emergent properties.
'In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence occurs when an entity is observed to have properties its parts do not have on their own, properties or behaviors which emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.
Emergence plays a central role in theories of integrative levels and of complex systems. For instance, the phenomenon of life as studied in biology is an emergent property of chemistry, and many psychological phenomena are known to emerge from underlying neurobiological processes.'
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:28 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue
What utter nonsense.
This is what we call "woo".
I mean, you're entitled to your opinion but it's not really adding anything to the discussion. How do you square the fact that there was no consciousness and then it appeared, as life did, from nothing - and then, at that very early stage, it will have been a very very primitive form of consciousness (because life then was just cells/bacterium)?
Just shouting "woo" at it doesn't really help.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:29 - Feb 16 with 2105 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:55 - Feb 16 by WeWereZombies
'In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence occurs when an entity is observed to have properties its parts do not have on their own, properties or behaviors which emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.
Emergence plays a central role in theories of integrative levels and of complex systems. For instance, the phenomenon of life as studied in biology is an emergent property of chemistry, and many psychological phenomena are known to emerge from underlying neurobiological processes.'
Yeah we can all copy and paste from wikipedia fella! Just not sure what you're asking. Are you asking if they mention emergence? I can't quite remember. Are you suggesting consciousness may come from when two or more properties that didn't have consciousness combine?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:29 - Feb 16 with 2102 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:24 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile
I mean, you're entitled to your opinion but it's not really adding anything to the discussion. How do you square the fact that there was no consciousness and then it appeared, as life did, from nothing - and then, at that very early stage, it will have been a very very primitive form of consciousness (because life then was just cells/bacterium)?
Just shouting "woo" at it doesn't really help.
I was going to give up an uppie until you posted 'as life did, from nothing'. No evidence for that, all life needs its bucket of squodge to start with:
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:36 - Feb 16 with 2073 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:24 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile
I mean, you're entitled to your opinion but it's not really adding anything to the discussion. How do you square the fact that there was no consciousness and then it appeared, as life did, from nothing - and then, at that very early stage, it will have been a very very primitive form of consciousness (because life then was just cells/bacterium)?
Just shouting "woo" at it doesn't really help.
Im afraid it is the only valid resopnse to it.
It is based on nothing of substance. No scientific basis whatsoever.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:37 - Feb 16 with 2071 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:29 - Feb 16 by WeWereZombies
I was going to give up an uppie until you posted 'as life did, from nothing'. No evidence for that, all life needs its bucket of squodge to start with:
Sorry, I didn't mean directly. I mean originally there was nothing... then your "bucket of squodge" appeared... and then life from that. But ultimately life seemingly came from nothing. Unless you believe there was always 'something' and the universe - or what was before the universe - had no start point?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:38 - Feb 16 with 2065 views
These conversations are more suited to the TWTD druggos whilst on drugs and melted on a sofa somewhere.
Consciousness something that fascinates me in terms of where it comes from, where it goes when you die and if we are separate consciousnesses or one big consciousness but bits of us are detached in flesh prisons for periods.
Stuff like past life experiences (like kids spouting war memory stuff, not flim flam regression sh1t) is something I’d love science to figure out, and it feels like that line of questioning could maybe answer it.
Reality is only what our bodies let us experience, and we see a fraction of reality.
Granted, I don’t have the answers myself or even know if my line of questioning is worth it (let alone how you’d go about it).
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:36 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue
Im afraid it is the only valid resopnse to it.
It is based on nothing of substance. No scientific basis whatsoever.
Fair enough, you've still avoided my questions though. If you can't answer them then surely that shows they're worthy of further examination, and Panpsychism is just one such examination.
It always makes me laugh - when I bring up something a bit radical on here, some seem to want to angrily (or nervously) shut it down rather than discuss further/ offer other explanations etc. What are you afraid of? I'm not saying it's real I'm just saying it's an interesting theory which offers an explanation for something we don't understand.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:48 - Feb 16 with 2032 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:42 - Feb 16 by monytowbray
These conversations are more suited to the TWTD druggos whilst on drugs and melted on a sofa somewhere.
Consciousness something that fascinates me in terms of where it comes from, where it goes when you die and if we are separate consciousnesses or one big consciousness but bits of us are detached in flesh prisons for periods.
Stuff like past life experiences (like kids spouting war memory stuff, not flim flam regression sh1t) is something I’d love science to figure out, and it feels like that line of questioning could maybe answer it.
Reality is only what our bodies let us experience, and we see a fraction of reality.
Granted, I don’t have the answers myself or even know if my line of questioning is worth it (let alone how you’d go about it).
Indeed, it's fascinating stuff to ponder whether high or not. Seems odd that some on here would just shut it down and shout "it's not science". We (and I've said this before on TWTD) would never find out anything if all scientists had that attitude.
Relax and speculate, baby!
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:58 - Feb 16 with 1998 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:44 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile
Fair enough, you've still avoided my questions though. If you can't answer them then surely that shows they're worthy of further examination, and Panpsychism is just one such examination.
It always makes me laugh - when I bring up something a bit radical on here, some seem to want to angrily (or nervously) shut it down rather than discuss further/ offer other explanations etc. What are you afraid of? I'm not saying it's real I'm just saying it's an interesting theory which offers an explanation for something we don't understand.
No valid questions asked. Its like saying "Well there is a theory that fairies are in my garden. And someone important says its true. Prove me wrong".
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:04 - Feb 16 with 1971 views
You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:44 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile
Fair enough, you've still avoided my questions though. If you can't answer them then surely that shows they're worthy of further examination, and Panpsychism is just one such examination.
It always makes me laugh - when I bring up something a bit radical on here, some seem to want to angrily (or nervously) shut it down rather than discuss further/ offer other explanations etc. What are you afraid of? I'm not saying it's real I'm just saying it's an interesting theory which offers an explanation for something we don't understand.
I'm not sure it's radical. Lots of weird and wonderful beliefs have been recycled over time and reframed as being new.
Spiritualists believe everything has a spirit, even a coffee table.
It's nonsense of course and we know this because we're adults.
The same as we know brick dust doesn't have a consciousness, because it's brick dust.
Mites that choose to live in stuff such as dust however, that might be another matter but not something I'm qualified to say one way or another.
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