| Interesting quote from Rovers forum 17:46 - Feb 15 with 5517 views | backwaywhen |
That’s better Joey , learn to adapt to league 1 , cut out 15/20% of the tippy tappy and increase the more pragmatic football by 15/20% to succeed , we struggle against the hardened teams and are mor successful against better teams ! …….. familiar anyone . |  | | |  |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 20:56 - Feb 15 with 4195 views | J2BLUE |
I posted yesterday that we could cut out the passing along our back line and get the ball in their box another ten times during the match.
We saw what can happen when you just get the ball in the box when Walton almost gifted them a goal.
I do not need to see the centre backs passing it backwards and forwards when we are desperate for a goal. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 10:27 - Feb 16 with 3607 views | billlm |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 20:56 - Feb 15 by J2BLUE |
I posted yesterday that we could cut out the passing along our back line and get the ball in their box another ten times during the match.
We saw what can happen when you just get the ball in the box when Walton almost gifted them a goal.
I do not need to see the centre backs passing it backwards and forwards when we are desperate for a goal. |
I agree, we no we can play that style much accustomed for higher leagues so ditch it now and reinstate it when we're in a higher league,go for it more direct more pace more shots from anywhere it's what the rest do against the mid to lower teams, play our style in the play offs against the other better footballing sides, |  | | |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:00 - Feb 16 with 3470 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 10:27 - Feb 16 by billlm |
I agree, we no we can play that style much accustomed for higher leagues so ditch it now and reinstate it when we're in a higher league,go for it more direct more pace more shots from anywhere it's what the rest do against the mid to lower teams, play our style in the play offs against the other better footballing sides, |
Just need to mix ip up a bit, get the ball forward quicker.
The problem with tippy tappy is that while you start out patiently probing for an opportunity you end up just keeping the ball to maintain possession and reduce the number of opportunities your opponent has.
We also need to reevaluate our substitution policy, specifically the impact on momentum. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:04 - Feb 16 with 3449 views | SheffordBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:00 - Feb 16 by Pinewoodblue |
Just need to mix ip up a bit, get the ball forward quicker.
The problem with tippy tappy is that while you start out patiently probing for an opportunity you end up just keeping the ball to maintain possession and reduce the number of opportunities your opponent has.
We also need to reevaluate our substitution policy, specifically the impact on momentum. |
I though in the early stages of the game against Rovers we did mix it up a lot more. Lots of longer balls aiming at getting Burns and Davis in behind and we managed to get some decent crosses off the back of that. Seemed to revert more to type until Broadhead, Clarke and Edwards came on - we were then doing far more direct running at the opposition. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:35 - Feb 16 with 3317 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:04 - Feb 16 by SheffordBlue |
I though in the early stages of the game against Rovers we did mix it up a lot more. Lots of longer balls aiming at getting Burns and Davis in behind and we managed to get some decent crosses off the back of that. Seemed to revert more to type until Broadhead, Clarke and Edwards came on - we were then doing far more direct running at the opposition. |
Calls to ditch it annoy me, as you say we do mix it but as the game drags on go back to possession for possessions sake.
The adjustments needed are not rocket science. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:39 - Feb 16 with 3302 views | jayessess |
if we were launching it forward over and over again, we'd be asking why we keep chucking long balls onto the heads of League One centre backs for whom it's meat and drink.
Here's the thing.
We went to Adams Park to play Wycombe Wanderers.
We had 20 attempts on goal to their 8, came away 1-0 losers.
Sheffield Wednesday went to Adams park to play Wycombe Wanders.
They had 12 attempts to goal to their 7, came away 1-0 winners.
That's nothing to do with being too tippy-tappy and not having efforts on goal. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:43 - Feb 16 with 3278 views | Plums |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:04 - Feb 16 by SheffordBlue |
I though in the early stages of the game against Rovers we did mix it up a lot more. Lots of longer balls aiming at getting Burns and Davis in behind and we managed to get some decent crosses off the back of that. Seemed to revert more to type until Broadhead, Clarke and Edwards came on - we were then doing far more direct running at the opposition. |
We were noticeably more direct in the early stages against Wednesday too but conceded. When we came back to our 'natural' game, we controlled the play much better . The difference between Saturday's second half and Tuesday was intensity. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:45 - Feb 16 with 3243 views | SheffordBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:43 - Feb 16 by Plums |
We were noticeably more direct in the early stages against Wednesday too but conceded. When we came back to our 'natural' game, we controlled the play much better . The difference between Saturday's second half and Tuesday was intensity. |
And that intensity is often driven by either the midfield or one of the CBs driving forward. With Morsy being quite cautious alongside Cam Humphreys and the CBs trying to keep it tighter at the back to cut out giving away soft goals I think we've dropped off in both. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:47 - Feb 16 with 3227 views | Herbivore |
Bit rich that from the Rovers fans, Barton has spent more time at this level than Rovers have in recent years. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:49 - Feb 16 with 3205 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:39 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
if we were launching it forward over and over again, we'd be asking why we keep chucking long balls onto the heads of League One centre backs for whom it's meat and drink.
Here's the thing.
We went to Adams Park to play Wycombe Wanderers.
We had 20 attempts on goal to their 8, came away 1-0 losers.
Sheffield Wednesday went to Adams park to play Wycombe Wanders.
They had 12 attempts to goal to their 7, came away 1-0 winners.
That's nothing to do with being too tippy-tappy and not having efforts on goal. |
No, it's mobility, decision making and speed of attack.
As an example, we had 4 Rovers players out of position 2nd half on Tuesday. Ball was wide right with Humphreys, ball forward would have cut out another two Rovers players.
Ball went sideways to Morsy, now only two players out of position, Morsy turned it back to Walton 10 yards outside his areas, now all Rovers players back in position. Ball played back to Morsy in the same position he played it to Walton from.
Momentum gone. We aren't 'too tippy-tappy', but we are far too ponderous. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 16:28]
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:52 - Feb 16 with 3152 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:49 - Feb 16 by Cheltenham_Blue |
No, it's mobility, decision making and speed of attack.
As an example, we had 4 Rovers players out of position 2nd half on Tuesday. Ball was wide right with Humphreys, ball forward would have cut out another two Rovers players.
Ball went sideways to Morsy, now only two players out of position, Morsy turned it back to Walton 10 yards outside his areas, now all Rovers players back in position. Ball played back to Morsy in the same position he played it to Walton from.
Momentum gone. We aren't 'too tippy-tappy', but we are far too ponderous. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 16:28]
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This is why I was so vocal about morsy as a skipper.
His play sets the tone of others. His slow safe football basically ensured we couldn't progress up the pitch with any tempo. If your captain is going at 2mph so will the rest. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:59 - Feb 16 with 3101 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 20:56 - Feb 15 by J2BLUE |
I posted yesterday that we could cut out the passing along our back line and get the ball in their box another ten times during the match.
We saw what can happen when you just get the ball in the box when Walton almost gifted them a goal.
I do not need to see the centre backs passing it backwards and forwards when we are desperate for a goal. |
Indeed. The only time we really need to be totally possession based is when the game is done. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 13:37 - Feb 16 with 2964 views | nethertonowl |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:43 - Feb 16 by Plums |
We were noticeably more direct in the early stages against Wednesday too but conceded. When we came back to our 'natural' game, we controlled the play much better . The difference between Saturday's second half and Tuesday was intensity. |
I see it differently ,Wednesday controlled the centre of midfield in the first half, Town scored at the right time to get some momentum. McKenna changed the central midfield at HT, and town regained control. Then strangely his substitutions handed control back to Wednesday who finished stronger. Dont think it had anything to do with Towns Natural game ! . | | | |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 13:39 - Feb 16 with 2959 views | Plums |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:59 - Feb 16 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Indeed. The only time we really need to be totally possession based is when the game is done. |
I'm getting Kenny Rogers vibes here | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 14:43 - Feb 16 with 2784 views | clive_baker |
On the way out of the ground I heard 2 Rovers fans chatting and basically saying 'what's even the point in a club like us trying to reach the playoffs when we'll only end up having to play a side like that'. Felt a bit of an odd comment off the back of a game where they were good for the point and had come closest to scoring, but probably a bit of perspective that what was a crap performance from our perspective probably wasn't, in isolation at least, too terrible. Dominant in possession, rarely troubled defensively but too slow, pensive, lacked a cutting edge and a little X factor.
Unfortunately it's one of those where drawing away there or at Cambridge isn't a disaster if you're winning games around it, but we're not. If we were to win Saturday our last 5 results (league) would be WDDDW which is probably 2 points shy of where it needs to be. Need to convert those draws to wins for sure, but the reaction from some is so OTT. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 14:54 - Feb 16 with 2746 views | Bobbychase |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 20:56 - Feb 15 by J2BLUE |
I posted yesterday that we could cut out the passing along our back line and get the ball in their box another ten times during the match.
We saw what can happen when you just get the ball in the box when Walton almost gifted them a goal.
I do not need to see the centre backs passing it backwards and forwards when we are desperate for a goal. |
That was from a set piece wasn't it? (Walton mistake) rather than them "getting the ball forward"
The trouble with getting it forward early against a team defending deep is that you are basically surrendering possession most of the time by launching the ball towards L1 centre halves who will happily head it away all day long. We keep the ball the way we do to move a team sitting back about and find the gaps. We just need to do it better than we are at the moment.
Only Plymouth have scored more goals than us, and they only overtook us on Tuesday night. Tuesday was only the second match we haven't scored in this season, Lincoln at home being the other.
A blank is a rarity from us. It's the goals we are conceding that are killing us.
Pick any game you like, Charlton away, Cheltenham at home, Fleetwood at home, Plymouth at home, Portsmouth away. Either winning positions thrown away, or giving ourselves a mountain to climb just to get a point, like Sheff Wed last week.
And yet the focus remains not on the back four but whether Morsy passes it quick enough. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 15:03 - Feb 16 with 2716 views | nodge_blue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 20:56 - Feb 15 by J2BLUE |
I posted yesterday that we could cut out the passing along our back line and get the ball in their box another ten times during the match.
We saw what can happen when you just get the ball in the box when Walton almost gifted them a goal.
I do not need to see the centre backs passing it backwards and forwards when we are desperate for a goal. |
there's sipping the medicine though and taking the whole bottle.
Before you know it we could be back to Mick hoofball and the bloke in front of me shouting F*** off McCarthy all game. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 15:11 - Feb 16 with 2665 views | Bobbychase |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 15:03 - Feb 16 by nodge_blue |
there's sipping the medicine though and taking the whole bottle.
Before you know it we could be back to Mick hoofball and the bloke in front of me shouting F*** off McCarthy all game. |
The same people who start muttering when the back four are passing the ball between themselves and the midfield are almost always the same ones who howl when a long pass forward gets cut out or goes out of play. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 15:15 - Feb 16 with 2641 views | Bobbychase |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 15:03 - Feb 16 by nodge_blue |
there's sipping the medicine though and taking the whole bottle.
Before you know it we could be back to Mick hoofball and the bloke in front of me shouting F*** off McCarthy all game. |
The same people who start muttering when the back four are passing the ball between themselves and the midfield are almost always the same ones who howl when a long pass forward gets cut out or goes out of play. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 16:30 - Feb 16 with 2481 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 14:54 - Feb 16 by Bobbychase |
That was from a set piece wasn't it? (Walton mistake) rather than them "getting the ball forward"
The trouble with getting it forward early against a team defending deep is that you are basically surrendering possession most of the time by launching the ball towards L1 centre halves who will happily head it away all day long. We keep the ball the way we do to move a team sitting back about and find the gaps. We just need to do it better than we are at the moment.
Only Plymouth have scored more goals than us, and they only overtook us on Tuesday night. Tuesday was only the second match we haven't scored in this season, Lincoln at home being the other.
A blank is a rarity from us. It's the goals we are conceding that are killing us.
Pick any game you like, Charlton away, Cheltenham at home, Fleetwood at home, Plymouth at home, Portsmouth away. Either winning positions thrown away, or giving ourselves a mountain to climb just to get a point, like Sheff Wed last week.
And yet the focus remains not on the back four but whether Morsy passes it quick enough. |
The thing is people have used the top scorers stat for this argument for weeks now. And whilst yes statistically it was true.. it's not the big picture.
Scoring 4 against morcambe etc doesn't give us an extra point for our draw on Tuesday.
Regarding morsy. Had he been more direct on Tuesday he'd had seen after 20 minutes Burns was getting space as Bristol moved across to stop the digs going over to Davis. But Morsy was to interested in keeping it safe. Its that lack of directness which didn't make the most of an opportunity.
And J2 is right about late in games too. There was another on Tues. 89th minute. Wolfy to Burgess to wolfy back to Burgess. 89th minute.. that's not normal is it? | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 17:31 - Feb 16 with 2404 views | J2BLUE |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 15:03 - Feb 16 by nodge_blue |
there's sipping the medicine though and taking the whole bottle.
Before you know it we could be back to Mick hoofball and the bloke in front of me shouting F*** off McCarthy all game. |
No one suggested a complete 180 on style of play.
Just more urgency and mixing it up. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 17:47 - Feb 16 with 2367 views | jayessess |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 16:30 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
The thing is people have used the top scorers stat for this argument for weeks now. And whilst yes statistically it was true.. it's not the big picture.
Scoring 4 against morcambe etc doesn't give us an extra point for our draw on Tuesday.
Regarding morsy. Had he been more direct on Tuesday he'd had seen after 20 minutes Burns was getting space as Bristol moved across to stop the digs going over to Davis. But Morsy was to interested in keeping it safe. Its that lack of directness which didn't make the most of an opportunity.
And J2 is right about late in games too. There was another on Tues. 89th minute. Wolfy to Burgess to wolfy back to Burgess. 89th minute.. that's not normal is it? |
Don't think we've had many more "spare" goals than the other leaders particularly, but we've scored a lot of goals than only got us a point (18). | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 21:43 - Feb 16 with 2177 views | SheffordBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 17:47 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
Don't think we've had many more "spare" goals than the other leaders particularly, but we've scored a lot of goals than only got us a point (18). |
Absolutely. 5 games where scoring 2+ goals has only got us 1 point | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 06:29 - Feb 17 with 1934 views | RIPbobby |
I actually noticed a couple of times against Wednesday we planted the ball on their centre halves head and they duly gave it back to us straight away in much more dangerous positions. Mix it up blues, it does work. |  | | |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 09:05 - Feb 17 with 1773 views | PioneerBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 20:56 - Feb 15 by J2BLUE |
I posted yesterday that we could cut out the passing along our back line and get the ball in their box another ten times during the match.
We saw what can happen when you just get the ball in the box when Walton almost gifted them a goal.
I do not need to see the centre backs passing it backwards and forwards when we are desperate for a goal. |
I know you are not saying this, but in the modern game we should not confuse being more direct with simply lobbing balls to strikers. There are some that will interpret your comments this way.
Keeping the ball in defence is a legitimate way of drawing opposition on or out therefore making space between lines or behind.
What we don’t see as you point out is enough variation, such as quicker balls through lines from defensive or midfield to a 10 or striker. More directness from 10s breaking with the ball from 2nd to 3rd 3rd of pitch then in final 3rd into the box. There is little controlled variation between keeping the ball and stretching game by running Chaplin or Broadhead or Harness as a second striker as an in-game variation to give opposition defenders more to think about and an additional target for our midfielders to find.
It’s all very slow and considered, there is little directness in ball played and players running with the ball into space then into danger areas of penalty box.
Final thing on directness, keeping the ball at slow pace around the box is all very nice but we need to shoot more from outside the penalty box. That is more direct than walking the ball into the goal. | |
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