| Eye opening quote on EV Cars 16:17 - Feb 21 with 3667 views | hype313 |
"Volkswagen (VW) calculates that a diesel car emits less CO2 than an EV for the first 70,000 miles it is driven. How can this be? Fabricating one EV battery entails mining about 250 tons of rock to secure the minerals needed. The energy used in the mining ecosystem–oil, coal, and natural gas–means that one EV has a carbon debt equal to emitting between eight and 20 tons of CO2 before its first mile driven. ... Realistic scenarios could lead to EVs emitting more total CO2 than conventional cars over their lifetime."
Obviously the caveat is that the emissions are not on our streets and in our lungs, they're centralised at power stations, manufacturing sites, etc. Much easier to clean up the mess there than trying to absorb it from our streets. EVs win, hands down on that front. [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 16:18]
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 17:03 - Feb 21 with 3023 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Volvo came out with a very similar calculation. You are correct it’s taking it off OUR streets but it’s just exporting elsewhere - much like how we’ve exported our heavy industry to China.
I suspect that not even the worst break even point. MG EV’s for example are manufactured in China which has over 1,000 coal fired power plants and climbing. |  | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 17:51 - Feb 21 with 2908 views | ronnyd |
There's an article in Wired about nickel mining in Indonesia. Sounds a horrendous way to make a living. Sorry , no good at links. | | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:05 - Feb 21 with 2872 views | NthQldITFC |
We need cheap/free functional public transport and extremely high taxation on inefficient status symbol-type vehicles for people who don't need them for work. At the moment every stupid sod out there seems to be buying bigger and bigger vehicles for thrashing about on roads. Fkin idiots. |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:07 - Feb 21 with 2861 views | Trequartista |
We're trusting the accuracy of Volkswagen's measurements of diesel car emissions? |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:15 - Feb 21 with 2830 views | ronnyd |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:05 - Feb 21 by NthQldITFC |
We need cheap/free functional public transport and extremely high taxation on inefficient status symbol-type vehicles for people who don't need them for work. At the moment every stupid sod out there seems to be buying bigger and bigger vehicles for thrashing about on roads. Fkin idiots. |
Guy down the road from me has just bought a new hybrid Kia Sportage. It's absolutely massive. | | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:20 - Feb 21 with 2798 views | Kievthegreat |
It's 100% true that the cost of manufacturing an EV is significantly higher. However the emissions in use is a lot more variable. If you run an EV in a country with a high coal/gas/oil mix in power generation, it'll be significantly more than a country with a high amount of zero carbon power (Norway for example). I'll see if I can find it, but there was a good map of America which showed which states EVs emitted less than ICE and which ones EVs emitted more than ICE. The big driver being states with lots if coal mining and thus coal power. |  | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:21 - Feb 21 with 2789 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Electrickery.
Edit....likely need another battery after 70k miles won't it? [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 18:39]
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:48 - Feb 21 with 2699 views | Guthrum |
Are they including the materials mined to produce the diesel car, or however many tanks of fuel 70k miles represents? |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 19:10 - Feb 21 with 2620 views | WD19 |
I’ve heard similar in the past. From memory it was closer to 90k miles.
But carry on folks….. |  | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 19:24 - Feb 21 with 2581 views | longtimefan |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 17:03 - Feb 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Volvo came out with a very similar calculation. You are correct it’s taking it off OUR streets but it’s just exporting elsewhere - much like how we’ve exported our heavy industry to China.
I suspect that not even the worst break even point. MG EV’s for example are manufactured in China which has over 1,000 coal fired power plants and climbing. |
Link to Volvo comparison:
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/applications/pdpspecificationpage/my2 | | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 19:36 - Feb 21 with 2533 views | nodge_blue |
I've switched back to petrol but I think it's a known thing that diesel is better for global warming than petrol. It's emits less co2. You can't win. |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 19:41 - Feb 21 with 2493 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 17:03 - Feb 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Volvo came out with a very similar calculation. You are correct it’s taking it off OUR streets but it’s just exporting elsewhere - much like how we’ve exported our heavy industry to China.
I suspect that not even the worst break even point. MG EV’s for example are manufactured in China which has over 1,000 coal fired power plants and climbing. |
Ah, the joy of offsetting. It appeases the conscious of middle class consumers if nothing else. |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 19:46 - Feb 21 with 2471 views | Swansea_Blue |
Probably worth a word of caution about where that quote originated. Apart from being circulated on social media, the only organisation I could see linked to it from a brief search was the Manhattan Institute. An American conservative ‘think tank’ that promotes fossil fuel use. So it could be a load of balls. | |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 20:23 - Feb 21 with 2332 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 19:41 - Feb 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Ah, the joy of offsetting. It appeases the conscious of middle class consumers if nothing else. |
Ever felt like you're being swindled. | |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 21:04 - Feb 21 with 2230 views | Lord_Lucan |
I was about to press the button on a Tesla but wimped out, the whole EV thing to me isn’t adding up.
Our man Tarun is constantly looking for juice, sometimes he leaves work only to have to juice up nearby to get home.
Also - it takes me about 5 mins max to fill up on diesel - ditto most of the population. So, what’s gonna happen when everyone needs 30 minutes to boost? Gridlock?
I’m sure that someone will put me straight but I am starting to think the whole EV thing might be the biggest mistake in history. Get your lithium here!!!
Wind turbines - I think they look great, seriously. But, we know they aren’t the answer really but at least we’re having a bloody good bash at it. What,?? What do you mean each every single one requires 80 gallons of oil per year to keep turning.
Hey you - don’t dare point out problems baby.
Ha ha. Charade you are. |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 22:09 - Feb 21 with 2064 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
To be a completely fair comparison, all factors need to be considered, including the extraction, refining and transport of the fuel for the diesel vehicle and how the electricity is generated for the EV one, etc.
There are a lot of problems still with battery technology and the materials used is a part of this.
Be careful not to simply take a manufacturer's figures at face value when it is in their interests to promote their own product. Unfortunately, though, it is complex and I am not sure thorough independent analysis exists. |  |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 22:30 - Feb 21 with 2002 views | HARRY10 |
"Wind turbines - I think they look great, seriously. But, we know they aren’t the answer really but at least we’re having a bloody good bash at it. What,?? What do you mean each every single one requires 80 gallons of oil per year to keep turning. "
No, that is a misleading figure bandied about on certain websites.
Oil used is for the gearbox, it is not burned as with petrol so there is neglible comparison.
It is re-used/recycled.
The oil used is mostly sythetic, which reduces the use of crude oil.
It is a constantly refining industry, with effeciency increasing all the time.
Look back athe size of the first computer (small bedroom) with the size of the irst TV (12 inch screen) and the first mobile phones, (snall vacuum ckeaner - then compare the capability of a modernmphone which is the size of a box of swan vesta matches.
Someone looking at a baby might think, that doesn't do much. You have to carry it about everywhere and it just produces sh**.
Not an argument for starting somewhere, is it ?
Wind turbines/sails have been with us for over 7,000 years. The idea of taking lumps of fossilised wood into the home and setting it alight will look more and more ridiculous as each generation comes along - much as burning other fossils will look.
However there will still be the old fossils among us clinging on to outdated and inefficient methods. [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 22:36]
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 23:32 - Feb 21 with 1922 views | rgp1 |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:21 - Feb 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Electrickery.
Edit....likely need another battery after 70k miles won't it? [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 18:39]
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And what the end of life disposal for all of these batteries? Not exactly going to fit in ya wheelie bin are they! | | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 15:36 - Feb 22 with 1368 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 22:30 - Feb 21 by HARRY10 |
"Wind turbines - I think they look great, seriously. But, we know they aren’t the answer really but at least we’re having a bloody good bash at it. What,?? What do you mean each every single one requires 80 gallons of oil per year to keep turning. "
No, that is a misleading figure bandied about on certain websites.
Oil used is for the gearbox, it is not burned as with petrol so there is neglible comparison.
It is re-used/recycled.
The oil used is mostly sythetic, which reduces the use of crude oil.
It is a constantly refining industry, with effeciency increasing all the time.
Look back athe size of the first computer (small bedroom) with the size of the irst TV (12 inch screen) and the first mobile phones, (snall vacuum ckeaner - then compare the capability of a modernmphone which is the size of a box of swan vesta matches.
Someone looking at a baby might think, that doesn't do much. You have to carry it about everywhere and it just produces sh**.
Not an argument for starting somewhere, is it ?
Wind turbines/sails have been with us for over 7,000 years. The idea of taking lumps of fossilised wood into the home and setting it alight will look more and more ridiculous as each generation comes along - much as burning other fossils will look.
However there will still be the old fossils among us clinging on to outdated and inefficient methods. [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 22:36]
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Hey, I’m not really putting the downer on things - I simply went for lunch yesterday with a sceptic. I dismissed some of his loony things but I like to listen to people and a few of his comments were interesting.
His latest comment was that It takes 80 gallons per annum of polyalphaolefin oil. 1 gallon of POA is produced from 150 gallons of crude oil.
I’m not having a dig, I just like to listen to what other people have to say. It’s all about balance, I’m not 100% ok with people telling me they are right. Mostly, in my experience, people spout a lot of sh1t.
One needs to drill down. | |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 17:07 - Feb 22 with 1257 views | NthQldITFC |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 15:36 - Feb 22 by Lord_Lucan |
Hey, I’m not really putting the downer on things - I simply went for lunch yesterday with a sceptic. I dismissed some of his loony things but I like to listen to people and a few of his comments were interesting.
His latest comment was that It takes 80 gallons per annum of polyalphaolefin oil. 1 gallon of POA is produced from 150 gallons of crude oil.
I’m not having a dig, I just like to listen to what other people have to say. It’s all about balance, I’m not 100% ok with people telling me they are right. Mostly, in my experience, people spout a lot of sh1t.
One needs to drill down. |
...or not drill down :) | |
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| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 17:54 - Feb 22 with 1175 views | BtreeBlueBlood |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 23:32 - Feb 21 by rgp1 |
And what the end of life disposal for all of these batteries? Not exactly going to fit in ya wheelie bin are they! |
If they catch fire - they have to be left to burn out. |  | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:08 - Feb 22 with 1140 views | DJR |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 23:32 - Feb 21 by rgp1 |
And what the end of life disposal for all of these batteries? Not exactly going to fit in ya wheelie bin are they! |
I think places like Sainsbury's take used batteries. |  | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:11 - Feb 22 with 1131 views | DJR |
Interestingly, for those that change cars every two or three years, they themselves may never meet the crossover point. | | | |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:14 - Feb 22 with 1124 views | DJR |
| Eye opening quote on EV Cars on 18:05 - Feb 21 by NthQldITFC |
We need cheap/free functional public transport and extremely high taxation on inefficient status symbol-type vehicles for people who don't need them for work. At the moment every stupid sod out there seems to be buying bigger and bigger vehicles for thrashing about on roads. Fkin idiots. |
Seeing the dangerous driving of many with larger or not so larger cars, I was thinking recently that with AI we ought to limit all cars to 60mph, which would lessen carbon emissions and also make the roads safer. | | | |
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