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I can see how shareholders have reaped the benefits at times but ffs, when they were nationalised industries, we were ALL shareholders, not just this increasingly narrow group of generally well off people. Thatcherism = greed and failure. Discuss!
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 18:26]
bluescouser
4
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:12 - Jun 28 with 3185 views
Whilst I do broadly agree with your point, I wonder if you remember just how shyte railways used to be. They aren't good now, but British Rail was atrocious.
3
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:19 - Jun 28 with 3160 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:17 - Jun 28 by redrickstuhaart
Whilst I do broadly agree with your point, I wonder if you remember just how shyte railways used to be. They aren't good now, but British Rail was atrocious.
i've seen both and british rail was leagues ahead of northern rail and trans-pennine express to name but two current ones.
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:17 - Jun 28 by redrickstuhaart
Whilst I do broadly agree with your point, I wonder if you remember just how shyte railways used to be. They aren't good now, but British Rail was atrocious.
You're correct, they were poor due to consistent and fairly deliberate under investment. Has privatisation produced the necessary investment? Naaaah! Investment has been at the minimum so as to maximise profits for the few. Unfortunately, Labour no longer has the balls to do anything about the privatisation failures. Any commitments to renationalisation are consistently being weakened by them.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 18:33]
bluescouser
4
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:38 - Jun 28 with 3087 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:32 - Jun 28 by cbower
You're correct, they were poor due to consistent and fairly deliberate under investment. Has privatisation produced the necessary investment? Naaaah! Investment has been at the minimum so as to maximise profits for the few. Unfortunately, Labour no longer has the balls to do anything about the privatisation failures. Any commitments to renationalisation are consistently being weakened by them.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 18:33]
And the problem with the railways was painted as being the unions.
At least the private companies have successfully introduced meaningful working partnerships with the Trades Unions.
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:17 - Jun 28 by redrickstuhaart
Whilst I do broadly agree with your point, I wonder if you remember just how shyte railways used to be. They aren't good now, but British Rail was atrocious.
That's a fair comment, but one would think that modern technology, working practices and accountability systems might make a difference, although there will have to be some give and take from the unions too.
The alternative is for the good people of this country to continue to be b*m r*ped by the s... ... by the sort of people who have been doing it since the eighties, and who have now 'refined' their kleptomaniac ways to a highly efficient, despicable apex.
The way things are going, Thames Water may in effect be nationalised, but given they will have lost all the expertise they had when they were nationalised, it's not necessarily the case that nationalisation will do the trick.
Putting it another way, and as a strong advocate of the former nationalised industries, the privatised companies have effectively been turned into Humpty Dumpties.
0
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:48 - Jun 28 with 2755 views
You omit selling off the housing stock, there's no problem there, is there.
By the way what happened to all the money raise ? Imagine if Town sold off loads of players and we saw the money disappear into the pockets of outsiders, rather than re-invested. Welcome to privatisation - legalised theft.
So much assets in the way of land were nicked. Government owned water company, along with British rail had huge inner city land holdings. All quietly sold off to benefit the large shareholders.
How many council houses sold in London are now in the hands of private investment companies, owned by non UK companies, where the rents charged to the council are twice what the council charges its tenants. The economics of the madhouse.
But hey, there's some naught brown people invading our shores. Let's use them and put them to work.....nah, lets demonise them and use them as a distraction. Watch what magicians call distraction, and understand why they do it.
Watching many voters is like watching a 4 year old be amazed/tricked by a simple magic trick. One that never fails to baffle an unquestioning mind.
1
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:52 - Jun 28 with 2756 views
Gas, electric and rail were all pretty inefficient when under national control. Workers were getting away with taking as long as they liked over small tasks.
That's not to say that if they were re-nationalised, they couldn't be run efficiently in the future, that's just how it was in Britain back in the day.
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 18:17 - Jun 28 by redrickstuhaart
Whilst I do broadly agree with your point, I wonder if you remember just how shyte railways used to be. They aren't good now, but British Rail was atrocious.
In order to justify privatisation, an unfavourable narrative was built up around the nationalised industries (including British Rail) which in my view was not justified. That narrative has persisted to this day.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 22:00]
0
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 22:04 - Jun 28 with 2720 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:58 - Jun 28 by DJR
In order to justify privatisation, an unfavourable narrative was built up around the nationalised industries (including British Rail) which in my view was not justified. That narrative has persisted to this day.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 22:00]
Did you use it on a daily basis? I ask because it was before my time, however those that commuted daily never have anything good to say about it.
That said rail does not work as a privatised industry as there is simply no competition. If I take a train to London I have the choice of ONE operator. I’m any other sector that would be broken up as a monopoly…
0
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 22:06 - Jun 28 with 2715 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 22:04 - Jun 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna
Did you use it on a daily basis? I ask because it was before my time, however those that commuted daily never have anything good to say about it.
That said rail does not work as a privatised industry as there is simply no competition. If I take a train to London I have the choice of ONE operator. I’m any other sector that would be broken up as a monopoly…
I did as it happened, being a daily commuter into central London from 1982 to 1994, when privatisation began. In that time, I don't recall delays and cancellations being an issue at all, and the fares were very reasonable.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 22:26]
0
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 22:31 - Jun 28 with 2640 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:55 - Jun 28 by Trequartista
Gas, electric and rail were all pretty inefficient when under national control. Workers were getting away with taking as long as they liked over small tasks.
That's not to say that if they were re-nationalised, they couldn't be run efficiently in the future, that's just how it was in Britain back in the day.
Dear god, that nonsense has long been abandoned by even the most hardened rightie
Privatisation was not motivated by those sort of urban myths, but by the wish to asset strip and run the service in the interest of shareholders and NOT, the customers.
Nationalisation came about after WW2, in part to ensure vital services were run efficiently and delivered, hence the NHS.
By 1980 there was a huge amount of redundant land and property. Telecommunications were becoming digitalised. Goods yards were not needed as roafd transport took over. instead of these assets being sold off and the money staying in the public hands to be reinvested in was purloined. Much as what happened in Russia. Though there on a grander and more blatant scale.
But hey ho, don't tell the thickos. Tell them it was naughty unions and lazy british workers.
0
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 07:41 - Jun 29 with 2492 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:58 - Jun 28 by DJR
In order to justify privatisation, an unfavourable narrative was built up around the nationalised industries (including British Rail) which in my view was not justified. That narrative has persisted to this day.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 22:00]
There is that poisonous 'narrative' and it is used by the asset-strippers to worry people about the (absolutely vital) need for re-nationalisation and a ramping down of unfettered capitalism in a dying country and a dying world.
As with the Climate Change issue, I think that whilst change has to be delivered by the government, there has to be serious pressure from the public to force radical democratic change for social sustainability and a functioning country with vital services delivered to all. We must apply that pressure and accept that we have to ease up on our acquisitive ways.
There also has to be serious responsibility taken by the public to ensure that it works and is staffed by people doing an honest days work for the good of everybody. To that end, I think we need some sort of public service motto or declaration that people can aspire to or informally sign up to that encapsulates the need to co-operate, along the lines of "I won't skive and shirk, I'll do a decent job for a decent wage and for the good of everybody." (only much, much better and more positive!)
At the moment we seem to have a motto of "I will do everything I can to become financially richer, whatever the cost to others, our descendants, and Nature herself.". That one will soon kill us, and the water and railways will stop working before then. Even if the pension pot is a bit bigger than it was before, there won't be a functioning society in which to spend the hoarded piles of gold.
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:48 - Jun 28 by HARRY10
You omit selling off the housing stock, there's no problem there, is there.
By the way what happened to all the money raise ? Imagine if Town sold off loads of players and we saw the money disappear into the pockets of outsiders, rather than re-invested. Welcome to privatisation - legalised theft.
So much assets in the way of land were nicked. Government owned water company, along with British rail had huge inner city land holdings. All quietly sold off to benefit the large shareholders.
How many council houses sold in London are now in the hands of private investment companies, owned by non UK companies, where the rents charged to the council are twice what the council charges its tenants. The economics of the madhouse.
But hey, there's some naught brown people invading our shores. Let's use them and put them to work.....nah, lets demonise them and use them as a distraction. Watch what magicians call distraction, and understand why they do it.
Watching many voters is like watching a 4 year old be amazed/tricked by a simple magic trick. One that never fails to baffle an unquestioning mind.
Re land the same with BT. Mate of a mate became a multi millionaire just managing the legal side of that deal (amongst other things but apparently that was the big one). So much of that public wealth gets siphoned off into legal fees, banking, auditor fees etc as well.
I think there's probably an argument that could be made in favour of energy privatisations, the CEGB tended to gold-plate everything and rationalising some of that spending made sense. Competition for large buyers of energy was, until the last couple of years, fairly successful.
However, for retail customers the ability to change supplier hasn't done any real good, usage is too small for savings to be worth while and it's mainly just too much hassle to change. The apparent bargains to be had with cheap deals went very wrong once it became obvious that so many suppliers hadn't hedged against rising prices.
The other issue is that whilst the CEGB may not have been efficient, 20 years of not investing in infrastructure has lead to the point where the costs of new large power stations and improving the grid for distributed, largely renewable, generation became very expensive. Hence the big delays and cost overruns on Hinkley Point C.
This is a view coloured by having worked for one of the one-time big six and still being in a related industry. Has that benefited the whole nation? Maybe not but there is at least a debate to be had there.
Water, on the other hand, is an enormous con. Zero competition, dubious financial engineering, profits shipped offshore and sh1t in the sea.
Rail is hardly any better, every time a franchise has failed and been run directly by the state it has proved more efficient (three times on the east coast mainline FFS) and yet the dogma of the private sector being 'best' continues. Laughably, a large number of rail franchises are owned by subsidiaries of other sate rail firms.
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 07:59 - Jun 29 by Steve_M
I think there's probably an argument that could be made in favour of energy privatisations, the CEGB tended to gold-plate everything and rationalising some of that spending made sense. Competition for large buyers of energy was, until the last couple of years, fairly successful.
However, for retail customers the ability to change supplier hasn't done any real good, usage is too small for savings to be worth while and it's mainly just too much hassle to change. The apparent bargains to be had with cheap deals went very wrong once it became obvious that so many suppliers hadn't hedged against rising prices.
The other issue is that whilst the CEGB may not have been efficient, 20 years of not investing in infrastructure has lead to the point where the costs of new large power stations and improving the grid for distributed, largely renewable, generation became very expensive. Hence the big delays and cost overruns on Hinkley Point C.
This is a view coloured by having worked for one of the one-time big six and still being in a related industry. Has that benefited the whole nation? Maybe not but there is at least a debate to be had there.
Water, on the other hand, is an enormous con. Zero competition, dubious financial engineering, profits shipped offshore and sh1t in the sea.
Rail is hardly any better, every time a franchise has failed and been run directly by the state it has proved more efficient (three times on the east coast mainline FFS) and yet the dogma of the private sector being 'best' continues. Laughably, a large number of rail franchises are owned by subsidiaries of other sate rail firms.
I think that’s a balanced view in the Energy side. it was the E&P companies ripping us off. France completed the renationalisation of EDF at just about the worst time possible. Since the wholesale price rises were driving the cost the suppliers/utility companies were not the problem (indeed many went bust in the UK for this reason). EDF lost €19bn last year which will be picked up by French taxpayers.
0
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 08:35 - Jun 29 with 2413 views
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 07:55 - Jun 29 by Charlie_pl_baxter
Re land the same with BT. Mate of a mate became a multi millionaire just managing the legal side of that deal (amongst other things but apparently that was the big one). So much of that public wealth gets siphoned off into legal fees, banking, auditor fees etc as well.
Pah!! But those Russian oligarchs heh.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Please tell me which privatisation process has benefitted the whole nation? on 21:58 - Jun 28 by DJR
In order to justify privatisation, an unfavourable narrative was built up around the nationalised industries (including British Rail) which in my view was not justified. That narrative has persisted to this day.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2023 22:00]
The same will happen when the NHS is inevitably privatized. People won't remember it at its best, they'll remember the underfunded, understaffed, hollowed out version that we currently have.
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