| Reform next? 09:34 - Sep 24 with 9434 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Off to check the odds....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/23/the-writing-is-on-already-the-wall-f
"Nearly one in four 2019 Conservative voters switched to Reform compared with just one in eight who backed Labour.
As a result, Labour won just 35 per cent of the vote – in an election where only three in five voted. Never before has a party won an overall majority with so low a share of the vote. Consequently, the pool of voters willing to give it the benefit of the doubt is unusually small."
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| Reform next? on 09:41 - Sep 24 with 4633 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Your dismay at Corbyn being ousted has turned you into a full-blown, Torygraph reading Tory.
The idea that the government is "floundering" after a couple of months is laughable. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Reform next? on 09:51 - Sep 24 with 4568 views | giant_stow |
| Reform next? on 09:41 - Sep 24 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Your dismay at Corbyn being ousted has turned you into a full-blown, Torygraph reading Tory.
The idea that the government is "floundering" after a couple of months is laughable. |
Theres a weird current coalition of Tory right wing press / left wing social media people jumping on every mistake right now. I wouldn't expect the press to be fair on the good stuff, but it would be nice if the left would at least try.
Personally, as you suggest, its way too soon to judge - they need years, not weeks. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:57]
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| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 with 4528 views | baxterbasics |
Next for what? Forming a government?
Seems very unlikely doesn't it. What they may do is continue to split the right/center right vote, giving Keir a free hand for as long as he has the stomach.
"two-tier" will end up "three-term"
Although if the online chat about per-mile road charging has any truth (I am yet to see evidence), this may become his poll tax. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:59]
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| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 with 4522 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reform next? on 09:51 - Sep 24 by giant_stow |
Theres a weird current coalition of Tory right wing press / left wing social media people jumping on every mistake right now. I wouldn't expect the press to be fair on the good stuff, but it would be nice if the left would at least try.
Personally, as you suggest, its way too soon to judge - they need years, not weeks. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:57]
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It's the least liked landslide in history.
UK public Ltd is generally centre right, that I believe is not in question.
The Tories ate themselves and were completely unelectable |  |
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| Reform next? on 10:05 - Sep 24 with 4451 views | Blueschev |
| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 by baxterbasics |
Next for what? Forming a government?
Seems very unlikely doesn't it. What they may do is continue to split the right/center right vote, giving Keir a free hand for as long as he has the stomach.
"two-tier" will end up "three-term"
Although if the online chat about per-mile road charging has any truth (I am yet to see evidence), this may become his poll tax. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:59]
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I would be amazed if Starmer wins three terms. There's very little enthusiasm for the government and the press are already going to town on Labour. The Tories have a history of putting survival above all else, they'll do a deal with Farage before the next election to solve the problem. |  | | |
| Reform next? on 10:07 - Sep 24 with 4427 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's the least liked landslide in history.
UK public Ltd is generally centre right, that I believe is not in question.
The Tories ate themselves and were completely unelectable |
"Least liked landslide" is such a weird phrase. In football terms it's like a thrashing but complaining you didn't play that well.
Early days but I'm liking what Labour have done so far. I heard Rachel Reeves on the wireless saying they're going to claw back our money corruptly given to Tory-friends for rubbish PPE... that will be amazing if she can do that. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Reform next? on 10:12 - Sep 24 with 4381 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform next? on 09:51 - Sep 24 by giant_stow |
Theres a weird current coalition of Tory right wing press / left wing social media people jumping on every mistake right now. I wouldn't expect the press to be fair on the good stuff, but it would be nice if the left would at least try.
Personally, as you suggest, its way too soon to judge - they need years, not weeks. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:57]
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Come on Ullaa. You're supposed to be disgruntled with them already. You've been told enough times. None of this giving them more than 3 months to change anything rubbish. |  |
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| Reform next? on 10:13 - Sep 24 with 4385 views | itfcjoe |
| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's the least liked landslide in history.
UK public Ltd is generally centre right, that I believe is not in question.
The Tories ate themselves and were completely unelectable |
The main problem is the most noise is from the right wing media, who obviously dislike Starmer (especially over phone hacking etc) and the left - whereas most people don't fall into these 2 camps.
On TV it is seen as balance to have someone from the right wing and someone from the left wing, so it's just 2 loons who don't like what is a centrist position.
It's all pretty depressing really, but am currently reading a book on Brexit, and there is talk of the dawning reality on Cameron/Osborne on how hard campaigning and governing is when you don't have the press on your side, as Tories they'd been playing on easy mode and couldn't play it the way Labour generally have to. |  |
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| Reform next? on 10:13 - Sep 24 with 4378 views | Blueschev |
| Reform next? on 10:07 - Sep 24 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Least liked landslide" is such a weird phrase. In football terms it's like a thrashing but complaining you didn't play that well.
Early days but I'm liking what Labour have done so far. I heard Rachel Reeves on the wireless saying they're going to claw back our money corruptly given to Tory-friends for rubbish PPE... that will be amazing if she can do that. |
It's nothing like a football match though is it? Labour got nearly a million less votes than in 2019 yet won a landslide. They didn't win said landside because they were popular as in 1997, but because the right vote was split between Tories and Reform, and the former were the worst government in history. Had Farage defected to the Tories before the election they'd probably still be in power, as depressing as that may be. | | | |
| Reform next? on 10:18 - Sep 24 with 4359 views | homer_123 |
| Reform next? on 10:05 - Sep 24 by Blueschev |
I would be amazed if Starmer wins three terms. There's very little enthusiasm for the government and the press are already going to town on Labour. The Tories have a history of putting survival above all else, they'll do a deal with Farage before the next election to solve the problem. |
There's very little enthusiasm for the government - really?
Have to say, I'm not sure that's the case. |  |
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| Reform next? on 10:19 - Sep 24 with 4325 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Reform next? on 10:13 - Sep 24 by Blueschev |
It's nothing like a football match though is it? Labour got nearly a million less votes than in 2019 yet won a landslide. They didn't win said landside because they were popular as in 1997, but because the right vote was split between Tories and Reform, and the former were the worst government in history. Had Farage defected to the Tories before the election they'd probably still be in power, as depressing as that may be. |
Still don't see how my analogy doesn't work. It was a thrashing because the other team were rubbish and/or divided, rather than Labour playing a blinder.
At the end of the day a win's a win, and a landslide is an even bigger win.
This bleating by the right about it not being that big a landslide, or it was only coz we woz rubbish or whatever - who cares? You lost, get over it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Reform next? on 10:20 - Sep 24 with 4321 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reform next? on 10:07 - Sep 24 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Least liked landslide" is such a weird phrase. In football terms it's like a thrashing but complaining you didn't play that well.
Early days but I'm liking what Labour have done so far. I heard Rachel Reeves on the wireless saying they're going to claw back our money corruptly given to Tory-friends for rubbish PPE... that will be amazing if she can do that. |
I thought it was a great phrase and I'm claiming it!
You once mentioned that your girlfriend (I think) was involved or had an insight with politics in some way? You should then know then that politicians are generally cut from the same cloth.
The thing is, regardless of creed or colour........... the longer the stretch of power then the greater the corruption, largely because it becomes easier.
Personally, I'm happy for Labour to have a go, but, I have no great expectations.
I'll tell you now - you need more that 5 years to sort things out. After 5 years you may have something happening but it won't be noticeable to the public - so you may get voted out and it starts again.
BUT - if you get voted back in to finish the job, you will find that you will be eaten by corruption and that's the way it goes baby..
When I'm dead people will listen to me. | |
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| Reform next? on 10:28 - Sep 24 with 4264 views | Blueschev |
| Reform next? on 10:18 - Sep 24 by homer_123 |
There's very little enthusiasm for the government - really?
Have to say, I'm not sure that's the case. |
It's anecdotal of course but that's the mood I get when I talk to most people, and it's not influenced by my own misgivings as not many of my friends and family share my worldview. I would say that much of the noise coming from the right wing press is utter nonsense though, and not in line with the public mood, which I find pretty apathetic. | | | |
| Reform next? on 10:34 - Sep 24 with 4229 views | Blueschev |
| Reform next? on 10:19 - Sep 24 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Still don't see how my analogy doesn't work. It was a thrashing because the other team were rubbish and/or divided, rather than Labour playing a blinder.
At the end of the day a win's a win, and a landslide is an even bigger win.
This bleating by the right about it not being that big a landslide, or it was only coz we woz rubbish or whatever - who cares? You lost, get over it. |
It's not comparable to a football match at all because there were multiple teams on the metaphorical pitch. Were there only Labour and Tory on the ballot I would expect the result to have been much closer.
Look, Labour won with a big majority and we finally got rid of the worst government of all time. That's great. But don't be so naïve as to believe that said majority was a reflection of huge enthusiasm for Labour. | | | |
| Reform next? on 10:35 - Sep 24 with 4207 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Reform next? on 10:20 - Sep 24 by Lord_Lucan |
I thought it was a great phrase and I'm claiming it!
You once mentioned that your girlfriend (I think) was involved or had an insight with politics in some way? You should then know then that politicians are generally cut from the same cloth.
The thing is, regardless of creed or colour........... the longer the stretch of power then the greater the corruption, largely because it becomes easier.
Personally, I'm happy for Labour to have a go, but, I have no great expectations.
I'll tell you now - you need more that 5 years to sort things out. After 5 years you may have something happening but it won't be noticeable to the public - so you may get voted out and it starts again.
BUT - if you get voted back in to finish the job, you will find that you will be eaten by corruption and that's the way it goes baby..
When I'm dead people will listen to me. |
That's definitely true with the Tories. I haven't seen enough of Labour in my lifetime to know if it's the same with them.
Fingers crossed though, otherwise we'll all have to go and buy a hut in Scotland and live off grid to get away from it all. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Reform next? on 10:40 - Sep 24 with 4139 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Reform next? on 10:34 - Sep 24 by Blueschev |
It's not comparable to a football match at all because there were multiple teams on the metaphorical pitch. Were there only Labour and Tory on the ballot I would expect the result to have been much closer.
Look, Labour won with a big majority and we finally got rid of the worst government of all time. That's great. But don't be so naïve as to believe that said majority was a reflection of huge enthusiasm for Labour. |
I never said it was, and nor do I really care. I think it's pretty well known the most enthusiasm at the last election was for getting rid of the Tories.
"Were there only Labour and Tory on the ballot I would expect the result to have been much closer." But there wasn't, and there never is. And if there were, you've no idea how the vote would go. You can't just pop all the Reform votes onto the Conservatives and claim some sort of hypothetical victory. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Reform next? on 10:41 - Sep 24 with 4137 views | positivity |
| Reform next? on 10:13 - Sep 24 by Blueschev |
It's nothing like a football match though is it? Labour got nearly a million less votes than in 2019 yet won a landslide. They didn't win said landside because they were popular as in 1997, but because the right vote was split between Tories and Reform, and the former were the worst government in history. Had Farage defected to the Tories before the election they'd probably still be in power, as depressing as that may be. |
not sure that the comparison with 2019 is that relevant.
just as the right-wing vote was split in 2024, so was the progressive vote.
labour was the only show in town to stop a suicidal brexit in 2019, so a lot of people lent their votes, whereas now the lib dems and the greens are so much better organised and the gaza protest vote also took a big chunk |  |
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| Reform next? on 10:53 - Sep 24 with 4078 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Reform next? on 09:41 - Sep 24 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Your dismay at Corbyn being ousted has turned you into a full-blown, Torygraph reading Tory.
The idea that the government is "floundering" after a couple of months is laughable. |
It was linked from the Guardian.
Calm down Dolly it's just a question. | |
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| Reform next? on 10:55 - Sep 24 with 4068 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 by baxterbasics |
Next for what? Forming a government?
Seems very unlikely doesn't it. What they may do is continue to split the right/center right vote, giving Keir a free hand for as long as he has the stomach.
"two-tier" will end up "three-term"
Although if the online chat about per-mile road charging has any truth (I am yet to see evidence), this may become his poll tax. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:59]
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Yes government or at least part of a coalition. | |
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| Reform next? on 10:59 - Sep 24 with 4039 views | MattinLondon |
| Reform next? on 09:51 - Sep 24 by giant_stow |
Theres a weird current coalition of Tory right wing press / left wing social media people jumping on every mistake right now. I wouldn't expect the press to be fair on the good stuff, but it would be nice if the left would at least try.
Personally, as you suggest, its way too soon to judge - they need years, not weeks. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:57]
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There does seem to be quite a lot of people wishing the country to fail - the cults of Corbyn and Boris seem to be the loudest. It’s the middle ground that needs to be kept onside.
Yesterday, Labour pledged to go after Non-Doms, to crack down on tax avoidance and to put VAT on private schools. All policies that are socially on the left but politically they are more on the right than most Labour administrations before them. And that is what the country is (on the whole).
Think it’s only fair to give them time but they probably won’t be afforded that luxury. |  | | |
| Reform next? on 11:30 - Sep 24 with 3915 views | mutters |
| Reform next? on 10:20 - Sep 24 by Lord_Lucan |
I thought it was a great phrase and I'm claiming it!
You once mentioned that your girlfriend (I think) was involved or had an insight with politics in some way? You should then know then that politicians are generally cut from the same cloth.
The thing is, regardless of creed or colour........... the longer the stretch of power then the greater the corruption, largely because it becomes easier.
Personally, I'm happy for Labour to have a go, but, I have no great expectations.
I'll tell you now - you need more that 5 years to sort things out. After 5 years you may have something happening but it won't be noticeable to the public - so you may get voted out and it starts again.
BUT - if you get voted back in to finish the job, you will find that you will be eaten by corruption and that's the way it goes baby..
When I'm dead people will listen to me. |
I don't think your phrase is far wrong to be honest, though with most things you've got to give it time to see how it all pans out.
Labour won clearly, no question. However it's not like they wooed the country over with a wave of optimism, it was very much the desire for a change from the Tories rather than the desire for Labour.
They have a lot of work to do, they have to be careful as it does feel that it could very quickly turn sour. Nobody believed Labour could overturn the Tories majority in one parliament but modern politics is weird. |  |
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| Reform next? on 11:32 - Sep 24 with 3901 views | Zapers |
| Reform next? on 10:20 - Sep 24 by Lord_Lucan |
I thought it was a great phrase and I'm claiming it!
You once mentioned that your girlfriend (I think) was involved or had an insight with politics in some way? You should then know then that politicians are generally cut from the same cloth.
The thing is, regardless of creed or colour........... the longer the stretch of power then the greater the corruption, largely because it becomes easier.
Personally, I'm happy for Labour to have a go, but, I have no great expectations.
I'll tell you now - you need more that 5 years to sort things out. After 5 years you may have something happening but it won't be noticeable to the public - so you may get voted out and it starts again.
BUT - if you get voted back in to finish the job, you will find that you will be eaten by corruption and that's the way it goes baby..
When I'm dead people will listen to me. |
According to a recent poll, 3 out of 5 people suggested that they were a one term government.
Starmers approval rating is lower than Sunak.
And that’s before the budget . | | | |
| Reform next? on 11:33 - Sep 24 with 3889 views | soupytwist |
| Reform next? on 09:58 - Sep 24 by baxterbasics |
Next for what? Forming a government?
Seems very unlikely doesn't it. What they may do is continue to split the right/center right vote, giving Keir a free hand for as long as he has the stomach.
"two-tier" will end up "three-term"
Although if the online chat about per-mile road charging has any truth (I am yet to see evidence), this may become his poll tax. [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 9:59]
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There's a lot of social media noise about per-mile road charging but there's been no mention from the government that they plan to bring it in (that I have seen).
Are the objections mostly about civil liberties - not wanting the government to know where I go in my car? Or is it a cost thing?
I'd always assumed that per-mile charging would to some extent (or completely) replace fuel duty (which is a pretty blunt form of per-mile charging anyway) and VED. And as the electric cars we'll all be forced into when the eco warriors take our combustion engine cars away (if you believe the Telegraph) pay a different level of VAT on the 'fuel' they use if charged at home, it shouldn't be massively controversial from a cost point of view.
Or am I hopelessly naive? |  | | |
| Reform next? on 11:43 - Sep 24 with 3833 views | Blueschev |
| Reform next? on 11:32 - Sep 24 by Zapers |
According to a recent poll, 3 out of 5 people suggested that they were a one term government.
Starmers approval rating is lower than Sunak.
And that’s before the budget . |
I'd say it is far too soon to read much in to polls. I think that the huge turnaround between 2019 and 2024 in terms of seats does show that future elections are far less predictable than in the past, so it will be interesting to see how the next 5 years pans out.
Unfortunately the world seems to have taken a rightward shift, due in no small part to the sheer volume of right wing nonsense spewing from both legacy and social media. I'd like to believe that the UK election has bucked that trend, but if you break down the numbers they show a far more fragile position than at first glance (in my opinion). [Post edited 24 Sep 2024 11:44]
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| Reform next? on 11:52 - Sep 24 with 3768 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reform next? on 11:30 - Sep 24 by mutters |
I don't think your phrase is far wrong to be honest, though with most things you've got to give it time to see how it all pans out.
Labour won clearly, no question. However it's not like they wooed the country over with a wave of optimism, it was very much the desire for a change from the Tories rather than the desire for Labour.
They have a lot of work to do, they have to be careful as it does feel that it could very quickly turn sour. Nobody believed Labour could overturn the Tories majority in one parliament but modern politics is weird. |
I think they will soon realise that being in government is a lot harder than being in opposition.
Finding ways to fix things (and getting the notions approved) is a lot harder than shouting abuse from the sidelines.
Running a business has its problems, running a nation, I would imagine, is off the scale. | |
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