Forum | So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon by GeoffSentence

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon 16:41 - Jun 11 with 1521 views

Behind Sirs Alf and Bobby obviously, they won top level trophies. It's a bit more difficult to rank him compared to Burley and Lyall. McKennas 3 promotions in 4 seasons is in precedented. Burley only got one promotion and that via the play offs, but he not only kept us in the prem but we qualified for Europe. Lyall has only one promotion, but that was as champions not runner up, then he, with MvGivern, kept us up for several seasons, albeit with dire football

Not easy to decide who has the best record.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:44 - Jun 11 with 1186 views

positivity

Ranking Managers by baxterbasics 11 Jun 12:40
I know when we compare managers, the argument can be made that Burley, Robson, Ramsey all achieved greater in terms of the high points. But what about when you factor in where the club was when they took over, and how much it improved? That’s got to bump KM up the list a little. I don’t know the answer as to where I’d put him, only been following since Burley, just a curious discussion point.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:45 - Jun 11 with 1186 views

BlueinBrum

Gut feel is 4th behind GB but ahead of the rest.
Although you could make a case that McKenna has taken us a greater distance forward than GB did, albeit starting from a lower point and therefore not reaching the highs that we did in the early 00s.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:46 - Jun 11 with 1170 views

GlasgowBlue

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:45 - Jun 11 by BlueinBrum
Gut feel is 4th behind GB but ahead of the rest. Although you could make a case that McKenna has taken us a greater distance forward than GB did, albeit starting from a lower point and therefore not reaching the highs that we did in the early 00s.

Just ahead of Burley imo. Simply down to the fact that he took us from a mid table league one side to the Premier League in successive seasons.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:48 - Jun 11 with 1149 views

NthQldITFC

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:45 - Jun 11 by BlueinBrum
Gut feel is 4th behind GB but ahead of the rest. Although you could make a case that McKenna has taken us a greater distance forward than GB did, albeit starting from a lower point and therefore not reaching the highs that we did in the early 00s.

and in a much tougher environment.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:48 - Jun 11 with 1151 views

gsoly

Goes above Burley for me. Three promotions vs one, took over a club in pieces and created a mosaic masterpiece from it. And for the fun of Prem season one, Burley's relegation and subsequent sacking can't be looked upon that favourably? McKenna's left us in a far better shape than he found us.

It doesnt matter. on 16:50 - Jun 11 with 1137 views

Marshalls_Mullet

Thats really individual to each person.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:52 - Jun 11 with 1090 views

darkhorse28

If you measure success with us, he’s obviously probably fourth, behind Alf, Bob and George - really hard to even contemplate a comparison with George when you look at levels …, he would have had to take us to Milan with much smaller resources to even vaguely warrant a comparison.

And that’s the problem isn’t it. Take away the emotion, and measure managers based on the levels they’ve had success, with other clubs too - and he’s so far down the order.

Mick, the numerous Paul’s, Lyall, Royle and even Keane had MUCH more success at a higher level (at other clubs).

He’s obviously younger, much younger, and it’s going to be fascinating to watch where he go’s (obviously Celtic).

He could dwarf those, potentially. But the paradox of a young manager with such a poor season at the sharp end, is he might also end up way behind some managers who we’d consider extremely poor…, time will tell.., obviously couldn’t do more at the levels we were at, but there’s some, many, including Mick, who never had to manage in league one because they were so successful.

Will he have a better career than even Mick - I wouldn’t say it’s certain.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:54 - Jun 11 with 1096 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:48 - Jun 11 by gsoly
Goes above Burley for me. Three promotions vs one, took over a club in pieces and created a mosaic masterpiece from it. And for the fun of Prem season one, Burley's relegation and subsequent sacking can't be looked upon that favourably? McKenna's left us in a far better shape than he found us.

KM has the benefit of starting in such a lowly position at the start of the GC investment.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:56 - Jun 11 with 1076 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:45 - Jun 11 by BlueinBrum
Gut feel is 4th behind GB but ahead of the rest. Although you could make a case that McKenna has taken us a greater distance forward than GB did, albeit starting from a lower point and therefore not reaching the highs that we did in the early 00s.

Devils advocate - KM is our worst ever top flight manager.

I rate KM, but I'm just looking at how pointless some of these comparisons are.

[Post edited 11 Jun 16:56]

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 16:59 - Jun 11 with 1035 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:45 - Jun 11 by BlueinBrum
Gut feel is 4th behind GB but ahead of the rest. Although you could make a case that McKenna has taken us a greater distance forward than GB did, albeit starting from a lower point and therefore not reaching the highs that we did in the early 00s.

Maybe Burley should have deserted us in 2001 and left us in 5th when he had the chance then.

But he stayed loyal.

[Post edited 11 Jun 17:00]

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:06 - Jun 11 with 997 views

Churchman

In order:

Alf Ramsey
Bobby Robson
George Burley
Kieran McKenna
John Lyall
Bill McGarry
Joe Royle
Scott Duncan
Mick McCarthy
Jim Magilton
Paul Cook

And in the dustbin of shame:
John Duncan
Bobby Ferguson
Jackie Milburn

Beneath the dustbin of shame where the green and grey slime is:
Paul Jewell
Roy Keane
Paul Lambert
Paul Hurst

Edit: I forgot Jewell (let’s face it that’s the best thing when it comes to PJ). Added under the bin.

[Post edited 11 Jun 18:20]

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:12 - Jun 11 with 972 views

WD19

Impossible to judge. Arguably Joe Royle would have achieved more with the resources KMc had from the same standing start, but he didn’t have them.

Let’s just be grateful we got to enjoy ourselves again.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:13 - Jun 11 with 962 views

ParisBlue

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:06 - Jun 11 by Churchman

[Post edited 11 Jun 18:20]

Paul Jewell lower than beneath the dustbin of shame?

Jackie Milburn setup the youth system which was the backbone of SBR success. Was too nice to be a manager by all accounts, but not worthy of being in the dustbin.

There's also Mick O'Brien who sounds like an interesting chap.

[Post edited 11 Jun 17:15]

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:16 - Jun 11 with 929 views

homer_123

He sits behind Burley - I don't think it is even a debate.

That doesn't dampen what KM has done.

Burley finished 5th in the Prem. 5th - with a squad built slowly over time and without the same level of resources as KM has had (different era and all that), worth pointing out that Burley did have funds, it wasn't peanuts.

Then, Burley kept that European home record intact and beating (albeit a weakened) Inter at home.

KM took us from L1 with a squad from Cooke's era but had significantly more money than any other team in the division, doubled up and took us up. Our Prem season was always, always going to be hard - and so it proved and that is no slight on KM - the Club wasn't ready let alone the playing staff.

KM has done something different though, he gave us our Club back.

[Post edited 11 Jun 17:54]

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:18 - Jun 11 with 914 views

Blue_Heath

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:46 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue
Just ahead of Burley imo. Simply down to the fact that he took us from a mid table league one side to the Premier League in successive seasons.

Taking serial play off losers to Europe and 1 game from CL has to rank higher surely?

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:30 - Jun 11 with 874 views

wkj

He is side by side with Burley for me. Yes, Burley did magic in our first season back in the PL, but KM came in when people were rightly concerned that L2 looked an outside but realistic possibility, and put us in a place we'd not been since ITV Digital had a part to play in our club being destroyed and delivered to Marcus Evans.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:34 - Jun 11 with 867 views

positivity

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:56 - Jun 11 by Marshalls_Mullet
Devils advocate - KM is our worst ever top flight manager. I rate KM, but I'm just looking at how pointless some of these comparisons are. [Post edited 11 Jun 16:56]

worse than mcgiven? ouch!

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:35 - Jun 11 with 858 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:30 - Jun 11 by wkj
He is side by side with Burley for me. Yes, Burley did magic in our first season back in the PL, but KM came in when people were rightly concerned that L2 looked an outside but realistic possibility, and put us in a place we'd not been since ITV Digital had a part to play in our club being destroyed and delivered to Marcus Evans.

L2 was never likely, thats gilding the lily a bit.

We had the most expensive squad in the whole league, its just PC wasnt getting a tune out of them.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:37 - Jun 11 with 840 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:34 - Jun 11 by positivity
worse than mcgiven? ouch!

Statistically, yes.

....I'm not saying MM is better than KM. Just saying people have to be careful with narratives.

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Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:43 - Jun 11 with 821 views

wkj

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:35 - Jun 11 by Marshalls_Mullet
L2 was never likely, thats gilding the lily a bit. We had the most expensive squad in the whole league, its just PC wasnt getting a tune out of them.

It was certainly part of the conversation at one point, and independently of the fan base. Never likely , but very much lurking in the shadows

[Post edited 11 Jun 17:43]

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:53 - Jun 11 with 774 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:43 - Jun 11 by wkj
It was certainly part of the conversation at one point, and independently of the fan base. Never likely , but very much lurking in the shadows [Post edited 11 Jun 17:43]

It was never on my radar in that first season.

When we got promoted from L1 we were def faves for promotion given our huge budget.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:55 - Jun 11 with 757 views

SouperJim

Given how much more competitive our game has become in the last 20 years I honestly can't pick between McKenna and Burley, so would have to rank them joint 3rd.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:55 - Jun 11 with 754 views

homer_123

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:12 - Jun 11 by WD19
Impossible to judge. Arguably Joe Royle would have achieved more with the resources KMc had from the same standing start, but he didn’t have them. Let’s just be grateful we got to enjoy ourselves again.

I wonder what Mick would have achieved with funds....

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:58 - Jun 11 with 746 views

positivity

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:55 - Jun 11 by homer_123
I wonder what Mick would have achieved with funds....

he'd have said we don't need them, don't want to upset the proper blokes we already have!

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 18:09 - Jun 11 with 695 views

readtheleaguetable

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 16:59 - Jun 11 by Marshalls_Mullet
Maybe Burley should have deserted us in 2001 and left us in 5th when he had the chance then. But he stayed loyal. [Post edited 11 Jun 17:00]

And then crashed us. McKenna leaves us in a much better place than he stated from, and certainly in a much better shape than Burley did. And I loved and still love George Burley. But clearly the pantheon will always rank Ramsey, Robson, McKenna, Burley, the first Duncan, Lyle —-and then you’d have to peer down the bill with binoculars. To McGarry, maybe.
Always, that is, until we find the next miracle worker.

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