| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... 08:23 - Apr 15 with 3875 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
our government have been sh1t in the build up to this!
Care home provider saying she was a fool for listening to government advice not to stockpile PPE in Feb because now her residents and staff are dying. |  |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 08:27 - Apr 15 with 2507 views | StokieBlue |
Totally agree we should have more PPE.
But was it even available in Feb? China was in shutdown and the EU weren't managing to get any in Feb.
We should have a lot more but applying hindsight to historical context isn't entirely fair. If it was freely available (which I don't think it was?) then your point is absolutely correct.
SB |  | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 08:32 - Apr 15 with 2467 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 08:27 - Apr 15 by StokieBlue |
Totally agree we should have more PPE.
But was it even available in Feb? China was in shutdown and the EU weren't managing to get any in Feb.
We should have a lot more but applying hindsight to historical context isn't entirely fair. If it was freely available (which I don't think it was?) then your point is absolutely correct.
SB |
The care home manager who had the option to stockpile it clearly thought so! | |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 08:43 - Apr 15 with 2424 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 08:32 - Apr 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The care home manager who had the option to stockpile it clearly thought so! |
worse still care home providers had their orders hijacked totry and preserve throughput to the 'front line' NHS seemingly oblivious to the stark reality that the community was the front line and the people in care homes were by far the most vulnerable members of society.
This reflects remarkably badly on government policy in fracturing the link between hospital healthcare and community health care - and the decision to to effectively outsource care in the community whilst trying to claim dementia is not a disease etc. |  |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:15 - Apr 15 with 2371 views | BloomBlue |
I have a lot of friends in care homes (As you can imagine given my age) and overall the care homes are good, but most are having to pay £50k-£70k a year to be in a care home or funded by the state in some situations. One friend is in a care home with 100 beds @ £50k a bed that's £5million per year and nearly every couple of month for the last 2 years the home run out of his night leg catheter bags and they always quote something like, sorry we didn't order, supply chain, lack of raw materials etc and that is just one of many similar examples I can give across a number of care homes. You would think with an income of £5m they could at least organise leg bags. Nothing wrong with criticising but I find it a bit rich to start criticising the government when they struggle to get the basic supply of items residents need especially as based on my friends experience when they tell the care home workers they're sh*t at their job they don't like it.
I would also add same friend asked his care home manager 2 weeks ago how much PPE did they have in store last year and her reply was nothing other than masks we don't need PPE. He then said but you have all these old people in here you could catch any number of diseases off them and her reply was no we only need to face masks. You could argue why didn't the manager have PPE in stores in ready for a pandemic that could happen every 30 years, isn't that her job?
That's the problem loads of people who never required PPE now need it and the world supplies aren't there |  | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:21 - Apr 15 with 2356 views | gordon |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 08:27 - Apr 15 by StokieBlue |
Totally agree we should have more PPE.
But was it even available in Feb? China was in shutdown and the EU weren't managing to get any in Feb.
We should have a lot more but applying hindsight to historical context isn't entirely fair. If it was freely available (which I don't think it was?) then your point is absolutely correct.
SB |
I don't think it's fully fair to call it 'hindsight' when many of the problems we're now seeing in 2020 were identified in 2016 by a government pandemic simulation. |  | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:24 - Apr 15 with 2346 views | Basuco |
My mother is in a private care home and I have been getting emails to say they have no problem with getting PPE, all orders have been delivered. They did lock down the home to visitors quite early and appear to have been ahead of Government advice all along, there seems to be an issue with NHS procurement in general to me, but this is with no inside knowledge. |  | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:26 - Apr 15 with 2332 views | StokieBlue |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:21 - Apr 15 by gordon |
I don't think it's fully fair to call it 'hindsight' when many of the problems we're now seeing in 2020 were identified in 2016 by a government pandemic simulation. |
Did the report in 2016 say that care homes should stock PPE? It was focused on the NHS wasn't it?
All I asked was whether the PPE gear was even available in Feb for care homes to purchase. If it was then it should have been purchased as I said.
SB [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 9:27]
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:33 - Apr 15 with 2305 views | r2d2 |
Most is made in China, who were in lockdown in February, so l cant see how they could have stockpiled it if they had wanted to. |  | | |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:38 - Apr 15 with 2279 views | factual_blue |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:33 - Apr 15 by r2d2 |
Most is made in China, who were in lockdown in February, so l cant see how they could have stockpiled it if they had wanted to. |
So our government were even more stupid then, as they were telling care homes not to stockpile things it wasn't possible to stockpile.
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:41 - Apr 15 with 2262 views | Plums |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:21 - Apr 15 by gordon |
I don't think it's fully fair to call it 'hindsight' when many of the problems we're now seeing in 2020 were identified in 2016 by a government pandemic simulation. |
As somebody who has designed and delivered simulation exercises over many years, it’s no surprise to me that recommendations weren’t followed up. People frequently rely on their ability to firefight their way out of a crisis rather than put their efforts into mitigating the effects of them through preparedness which is a very expensive and thankless task - as long as nothing happens... |  |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:48 - Apr 15 with 2233 views | r2d2 |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:38 - Apr 15 by factual_blue |
So our government were even more stupid then, as they were telling care homes not to stockpile things it wasn't possible to stockpile.
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I would say on the whole the government have done all they could. The whole world wants this equipment, not just us. I doubt Labour/Lib dem would have done any better. They would have been using the same experts advice that the government is using. Nothing would have been solved any differently. Whoever is in power in this situation are listening to the supposed experts, who without doubt would have been the same people who are telling the present government. | | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:51 - Apr 15 with 2223 views | monytowbray |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:48 - Apr 15 by r2d2 |
I would say on the whole the government have done all they could. The whole world wants this equipment, not just us. I doubt Labour/Lib dem would have done any better. They would have been using the same experts advice that the government is using. Nothing would have been solved any differently. Whoever is in power in this situation are listening to the supposed experts, who without doubt would have been the same people who are telling the present government. |
“I would say on the whole the government have done all they could.”
Bar joining an EU scheme to source equipment. And getting smaller manufacturers (many of which already made this equipment and could have had it out the door quicker) on board because matey Dyson who donates to the party wanted some sweet government cash.
So really, no they haven’t. |  |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:54 - Apr 15 with 2206 views | r2d2 |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:51 - Apr 15 by monytowbray |
“I would say on the whole the government have done all they could.”
Bar joining an EU scheme to source equipment. And getting smaller manufacturers (many of which already made this equipment and could have had it out the door quicker) on board because matey Dyson who donates to the party wanted some sweet government cash.
So really, no they haven’t. |
Go read your daily mail. | | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:26 - Apr 15 with 2117 views | WD19 |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:51 - Apr 15 by monytowbray |
“I would say on the whole the government have done all they could.”
Bar joining an EU scheme to source equipment. And getting smaller manufacturers (many of which already made this equipment and could have had it out the door quicker) on board because matey Dyson who donates to the party wanted some sweet government cash.
So really, no they haven’t. |
I would be genuinely interested in evidence that existing manufacturers of ventilators were not given the opportunity to engage and/or help meet the demand.
Speaking of demand. The nightingale hospital in London apparently has only 18 patients as of this morning, which is good news. |  | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:35 - Apr 15 with 2096 views | monytowbray |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:26 - Apr 15 by WD19 |
I would be genuinely interested in evidence that existing manufacturers of ventilators were not given the opportunity to engage and/or help meet the demand.
Speaking of demand. The nightingale hospital in London apparently has only 18 patients as of this morning, which is good news. |
I’ll have to dig it out, but a company that make ventilators contacted the government, said they could get a few thousand out pretty fast too, and were ignored.
I can’t remember who it was on here yesterday who said their experience in the manufacturing industry shows the Government really have no clue how the world works beyond big business. | |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:39 - Apr 15 with 2089 views | monytowbray |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:33 - Apr 15 by r2d2 |
Most is made in China, who were in lockdown in February, so l cant see how they could have stockpiled it if they had wanted to. |
In the USA a lot of grass roots local organisations have been making them. A band I love (Thursday) donated their entire merch stock as materials to help (they are a New Jersey band so they’re seeing the impact bad there).
In France fashion companies have moved into production of PPE.
How to spec they are I can’t answer, but I’m amazed we don’t have a single handful of businesses that couldn’t do that here, considering we’re currently battling against the tide any bit of help would make a difference. | |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:41 - Apr 15 with 2078 views | monytowbray |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 09:54 - Apr 15 by r2d2 |
Go read your daily mail. |
My favourite part about your posts right now is this is the best response you can offer alongside other sarky remarks because admitting any fault of years of Tory rule and Brexit is too hard for you to face.
It takes more of a man to admit fault and learn. | |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:44 - Apr 15 with 2069 views | itfcjoe |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:39 - Apr 15 by monytowbray |
In the USA a lot of grass roots local organisations have been making them. A band I love (Thursday) donated their entire merch stock as materials to help (they are a New Jersey band so they’re seeing the impact bad there).
In France fashion companies have moved into production of PPE.
How to spec they are I can’t answer, but I’m amazed we don’t have a single handful of businesses that couldn’t do that here, considering we’re currently battling against the tide any bit of help would make a difference. |
This stuff is happening with things like Scrubs etc, my Mother in Law is in a school uniform factory making them, schools are 3d printing masks (Ipswich and Northgate for definite) and delivering them to care homes, GP practices etc
It's not as easy with ventilators though, they need to be properly tested - that's not to say going to Dyson is the right thing to do, it may not be but I don't know - but it does seem as though the low hanging fruit is being successfully picked |  |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:44 - Apr 15 with 2071 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:39 - Apr 15 by monytowbray |
In the USA a lot of grass roots local organisations have been making them. A band I love (Thursday) donated their entire merch stock as materials to help (they are a New Jersey band so they’re seeing the impact bad there).
In France fashion companies have moved into production of PPE.
How to spec they are I can’t answer, but I’m amazed we don’t have a single handful of businesses that couldn’t do that here, considering we’re currently battling against the tide any bit of help would make a difference. |
Sorry to ruin your day.
https://www.drapersonline.com/business-operations/fashion-suppliers-nhs-rescue-m |  |
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 11:52 - Apr 15 with 2039 views | portmanking |
Lolz.
Doesn't fit the narrative though, surely? | | | |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 12:13 - Apr 15 with 1966 views | GlasgowBlue |
That’s odd. Callis has be responding to posts on this thread within minutes. As soon as somebody posts something that doesn’t fit his narrative he disappears. [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 12:19]
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 13:28 - Apr 15 with 1823 views | monytowbray |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 12:13 - Apr 15 by GlasgowBlue |
That’s odd. Callis has be responding to posts on this thread within minutes. As soon as somebody posts something that doesn’t fit his narrative he disappears. [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 12:19]
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Do you think I sit on the forum all day waiting for people to post? I’ve been working. Your narratives are laughable mate. Particularly seeing how many points you’ve shut up about running in to defend your party with PPS and TRUST THE SCIENCE remarks in the last couple of weeks. I imagine this period of your posting will go down with your “what austerity?” era of something we don’t speak about.
I wasn’t aware of that and good it’s happening here.
Doesn’t change this fact though does it?
https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-cfbe-4b36-848e-3980225ae542
Wah, my narrative, or something. [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 13:30]
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 13:49 - Apr 15 with 1782 views | giant_stow |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 13:28 - Apr 15 by monytowbray |
Do you think I sit on the forum all day waiting for people to post? I’ve been working. Your narratives are laughable mate. Particularly seeing how many points you’ve shut up about running in to defend your party with PPS and TRUST THE SCIENCE remarks in the last couple of weeks. I imagine this period of your posting will go down with your “what austerity?” era of something we don’t speak about.
I wasn’t aware of that and good it’s happening here.
Doesn’t change this fact though does it?
https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-cfbe-4b36-848e-3980225ae542
Wah, my narrative, or something. [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 13:30]
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I remember the report about the import company that offered the govt loads of ventilators, but their call was never returned and the machines went elsewhere.
Also the report about one of the small uk producers not being contacted (that one was on the telly).
You're getting a neadlessly rough ride here - no doubt big mistakes were made. [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 13:50]
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| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 13:54 - Apr 15 with 1762 views | monytowbray |
| Judging by telly this morning we are now allowed to say..... on 13:49 - Apr 15 by giant_stow |
I remember the report about the import company that offered the govt loads of ventilators, but their call was never returned and the machines went elsewhere.
Also the report about one of the small uk producers not being contacted (that one was on the telly).
You're getting a neadlessly rough ride here - no doubt big mistakes were made. [Post edited 15 Apr 2020 13:50]
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I've been posting this stuff live as it was unfolding and was told to shut up and called several names because I was political point scoring apparently.
My "narrative" has remained the same throughout, and I've even said some things the government have done have been better (like finally going into lockdown and supporting employees even if the latter is still full of holes).
There's a lot of stuff going on in the UK where the writing was on the wall for weeks and we've done too little, too late, with countless fumbles and lies along the way.
The fact we may likely hit Italy and Spain levels of death tolls when other countries have mitigated damage says a lot. I'd be surprised if there is any freak reason for that. What needs to happen after this is an independent investigation and those responsible are held accountable. | |
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