| The Academy 08:19 - Sep 2 with 1730 views | MonkeyAlan |
Why have one? In the position we are now, everytime we get anyone who is going to be half decent they will be poached by a PL or Champ club anyway and we can't reinvest that money only on cr@p players who only get paid peanuts because they are exactly that.
It will be Miz or Dobra or whoever next season, maybe both and more if we don't go up this season. Then the game will be up. I fear we will be playing in front of 4-5000 in 5 years time and will just be another Fleetwood Town, Colchester United. Because as a club this wage cap is going to ruin us. And with muppets like Evans and O Neil running things we have no chance.
What a time to be a Town fan. |  | | |  |
| The Academy on 08:25 - Sep 2 with 1428 views | pointofblue |
The wage cap is going to make things difficult but that’s another reason why we should maintain the academy - as under 21s do not count towards it. Plus developing young players then selling them on is a great way to keep the club sustainable financially. |  |
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| The Academy on 08:25 - Sep 2 with 1425 views | catch74 |
How are the U21’s wages counted for the wage cap? |  |
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| The Academy on 08:28 - Sep 2 with 1412 views | pointofblue |
| The Academy on 08:25 - Sep 2 by catch74 |
How are the U21’s wages counted for the wage cap? |
They’re not.
I guess the issue is we’re at the top of the cap as it is. When we sell Downes - whose wages do not count towards the cap - we’ll struggle to replace him with someone of a similar standard as, more likely than not, they will be over 21 so will count towards the cap. | |
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| The Academy on 08:29 - Sep 2 with 1408 views | RegencyBlue |
Evans missed the boat with the Academy by not going for Cat 1 status right at the start, to save a few quid. By the time he realised this was, another, bad decision it was too late. The existing Cat 1 Academies had pulled up the ladder and made qualification for Cat 1 status virtually impossible.
As for the Academy now, I would not be at all surprised if our illustrious owner was thinking along the same lines as you! |  | | |
| The Academy on 08:33 - Sep 2 with 1384 views | blueoxford |
| The Academy on 08:28 - Sep 2 by pointofblue |
They’re not.
I guess the issue is we’re at the top of the cap as it is. When we sell Downes - whose wages do not count towards the cap - we’ll struggle to replace him with someone of a similar standard as, more likely than not, they will be over 21 so will count towards the cap. |
If we buy in someone who is under 21, do their wages count in the wage cap? | | | |
| The Academy on 08:33 - Sep 2 with 1387 views | MonkeyAlan |
| The Academy on 08:28 - Sep 2 by pointofblue |
They’re not.
I guess the issue is we’re at the top of the cap as it is. When we sell Downes - whose wages do not count towards the cap - we’ll struggle to replace him with someone of a similar standard as, more likely than not, they will be over 21 so will count towards the cap. |
That's my point. We won't be able to recruit anyone of a decent standard because . we arnt allowed to give anyone good wages who may be any good. This wage cap has stuffed us. And the minute we find a good academy player they will be poached. Think we really are fooked. | | | |
| The Academy on 08:34 - Sep 2 with 1388 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It's an old chestnut. Every now and again Town get a good young'un by serendipity and it may or may not fund the academy with the goal posts moving in more ways than one.
IF this was a football club, then the answer is obvious... you invest in the future, knowing not everyone can 'do a Brentford'.
Alas Town are a millstone for a cash-strapped offshore 'investor' who will be looking to cut costs... and the academy does have plenty of room to build, build, build on | |
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| The Academy on 09:27 - Sep 2 with 1287 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Our squad would look thin without;
Downes
dozzell
Nydam
Kenlock
Bishop
Lankester
El Miz
Dobra
...to name a few. |  |
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| The Academy on 09:36 - Sep 2 with 1262 views | Herbivore |
| The Academy on 08:29 - Sep 2 by RegencyBlue |
Evans missed the boat with the Academy by not going for Cat 1 status right at the start, to save a few quid. By the time he realised this was, another, bad decision it was too late. The existing Cat 1 Academies had pulled up the ladder and made qualification for Cat 1 status virtually impossible.
As for the Academy now, I would not be at all surprised if our illustrious owner was thinking along the same lines as you! |
That's a fair old rewrite of history there. We were aiming for Cat 1 status and missed out by a very small margin. |  |
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| The Academy on 09:40 - Sep 2 with 1255 views | ITFC_Forever |
| The Academy on 08:29 - Sep 2 by RegencyBlue |
Evans missed the boat with the Academy by not going for Cat 1 status right at the start, to save a few quid. By the time he realised this was, another, bad decision it was too late. The existing Cat 1 Academies had pulled up the ladder and made qualification for Cat 1 status virtually impossible.
As for the Academy now, I would not be at all surprised if our illustrious owner was thinking along the same lines as you! |
We did go for Cat 1... but I think it was already a closed shop so they found a half a percent to fail us on. |  |
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| The Academy on 09:45 - Sep 2 with 1234 views | Terry_Nutkins |
The salary cap stops us being able to protect our assets in terms of paying them well...however we're in league 1 so if they are quality we'll lose them one way or another. It's now one of the few areas we can gain a competitive advantage in the division. The money we are not spending on wages in my opinion should be going on academy, sports science etc. If we have the best set up in the division we can attract the best players comparatively. We can also supplement the squad with better young players in theory and get out of the division. We'll be relatively stronger to stay out of it as well....
God we need to get up this year though!! | |
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| The Academy on 09:52 - Sep 2 with 1204 views | Herbivore |
If we end up being stuck at this level for a while then having a strong academy works for us as we can have a squad containing 8-10 or so academy products under the under 21 age limit for the salary cap and limit our number of senior pros to 14-16 or so. That means we can offer more competitive packages to senior players than our rivals who likely won't have so many under 21 players that are capable of giving you 20 games at this level and so will need to spread their wage budget over 20 senior pros. | |
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| The Academy on 09:57 - Sep 2 with 1185 views | pointofblue |
| The Academy on 08:33 - Sep 2 by blueoxford |
If we buy in someone who is under 21, do their wages count in the wage cap? |
No, I don’t think so. | |
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| The Academy on 10:43 - Sep 2 with 1135 views | Guthrum |
Because otherwise we'd still be reliant on the 'cr@p players', but not even get a few seasons of the home-grown youth or any financial input from their sales (thus even fewer 'peanuts' to pay those we'd need to recruit instead).
With regard to the wage cap causing an exodus of talent from Leagues One and Two, clubs at those levels already do not have the financial muscle to resist pressure from above. There's no way they could match Champ or Prem for wages even before. Why would the talent drain become any faster than it already is?
Upper division clubs aren't going to suddenly start buying up loads of players just because they can pay them better. The transfers still cost money (bear in mind few, if any, clubs do not make an annual loss), plus what would they use them for? |  |
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| The Academy on 12:29 - Sep 2 with 1044 views | Bluefish |
Ludicrous to point fingers at no cat 1. Look at the clubs that have it and think about how many out of the Prem or our size have it |  |
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| The Academy on 12:48 - Sep 2 with 996 views | RegencyBlue |
| The Academy on 12:29 - Sep 2 by Bluefish |
Ludicrous to point fingers at no cat 1. Look at the clubs that have it and think about how many out of the Prem or our size have it |
CAT1 status gives you advantages, if it didn’t such status wouldn’t be so jealously guarded by those who have it!
We have tried to get it since but failed on technicalities. It was another in a long line of poor decisions by Evans was my point and I stick by it. | | | |
| The Academy on 13:10 - Sep 2 with 970 views | RegencyBlue |
Well you’ve rather proved my point haven’t you!
We didn’t apply for it at the start, 2012, and once we decided that hadn’t been the best move it was too late, those who had it were not going to let anyone else join the club if they could help it. | | | |
| The Academy on 13:14 - Sep 2 with 957 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| The Academy on 08:29 - Sep 2 by RegencyBlue |
Evans missed the boat with the Academy by not going for Cat 1 status right at the start, to save a few quid. By the time he realised this was, another, bad decision it was too late. The existing Cat 1 Academies had pulled up the ladder and made qualification for Cat 1 status virtually impossible.
As for the Academy now, I would not be at all surprised if our illustrious owner was thinking along the same lines as you! |
Evans has a pretty solid record of corner cutting in all aspects of his stewardship of the club. |  |
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| The Academy on 13:17 - Sep 2 with 948 views | Bluefish |
| The Academy on 12:48 - Sep 2 by RegencyBlue |
CAT1 status gives you advantages, if it didn’t such status wouldn’t be so jealously guarded by those who have it!
We have tried to get it since but failed on technicalities. It was another in a long line of poor decisions by Evans was my point and I stick by it. |
Ffs can you see that it wasn't us making a poor judgement, it was set up for the prem teams and has been a largely closed shop. Our are making out that it is just us without it | |
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| The Academy on 13:18 - Sep 2 with 944 views | TieDyedIn95 |
It would be better if our Academy wasn't just a bit crap.
Name any top flight or England regulars that came through it in the last 10 years, 15 years? Pope who we released. Off the top of my head Wickham, Rhodes, Garven, and who else from our Academy who actually had a sniff at the first team here has played top flight football in the last decade or for England? How many of them even play in the Championship? None of those three made the grade in the top league, Rhodes relegated himself to play for Scotland.
We hear bluster about how good our youth system is all the time, yet only a handful make the grade here and even less make it where it matters. If you ask me, thats a big part of the problem but we as Ipswich supporters have been conditioned to believe that academies and youth is the way forward and that our system is a good one, despite it not actually proving it against any measuring stick other than the fact that we as a skint, 3rd division outfit have to rely on it to make up the numbers because our team isn't that good either. [Post edited 2 Sep 2020 13:20]
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| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
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| The Academy on 13:22 - Sep 2 with 938 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| The Academy on 10:43 - Sep 2 by Guthrum |
Because otherwise we'd still be reliant on the 'cr@p players', but not even get a few seasons of the home-grown youth or any financial input from their sales (thus even fewer 'peanuts' to pay those we'd need to recruit instead).
With regard to the wage cap causing an exodus of talent from Leagues One and Two, clubs at those levels already do not have the financial muscle to resist pressure from above. There's no way they could match Champ or Prem for wages even before. Why would the talent drain become any faster than it already is?
Upper division clubs aren't going to suddenly start buying up loads of players just because they can pay them better. The transfers still cost money (bear in mind few, if any, clubs do not make an annual loss), plus what would they use them for? |
We are reliant on crap players..... crap players from the academy instead! The league table doesn't lie. When Fleetwood are making mugs of our academy products thats no coincidence or some form of dark magic. It's because they aren't that good. | |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
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| The Academy on 13:39 - Sep 2 with 910 views | MonkeyAlan |
| The Academy on 13:18 - Sep 2 by TieDyedIn95 |
It would be better if our Academy wasn't just a bit crap.
Name any top flight or England regulars that came through it in the last 10 years, 15 years? Pope who we released. Off the top of my head Wickham, Rhodes, Garven, and who else from our Academy who actually had a sniff at the first team here has played top flight football in the last decade or for England? How many of them even play in the Championship? None of those three made the grade in the top league, Rhodes relegated himself to play for Scotland.
We hear bluster about how good our youth system is all the time, yet only a handful make the grade here and even less make it where it matters. If you ask me, thats a big part of the problem but we as Ipswich supporters have been conditioned to believe that academies and youth is the way forward and that our system is a good one, despite it not actually proving it against any measuring stick other than the fact that we as a skint, 3rd division outfit have to rely on it to make up the numbers because our team isn't that good either. [Post edited 2 Sep 2020 13:20]
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Agreed. Our Academy hasn't been prolific at all in producing top flight regulars. We keep getting fed this BS from the club, but in all honesty it's all been smoke and mirrors. Even now, the likes of Dozzell arnt great. They get bigged up but the proof is in the pudding. And we ain't seeing much really. | | | |
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