| Two sides of the Covid argument 07:29 - Feb 11 with 11774 views | ElderGrizzly |
One from a privileged Tory MP who has demanded we open up, the other from an actual scientist with evidence
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 07:57 - Feb 11 with 3144 views | Herbivore |
Crazy that they both get given the same platform really. One is actually qualified to talk about the pandemic and the best way out of it, the other is a wealthy middle aged man without a clue just pissing white privilege and English exceptionalism over everyone. |  |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:13 - Feb 11 with 3110 views | IPS_wich |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 07:57 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
Crazy that they both get given the same platform really. One is actually qualified to talk about the pandemic and the best way out of it, the other is a wealthy middle aged man without a clue just pissing white privilege and English exceptionalism over everyone. |
She makes complete sense, and whilst this MP is clearly a toffee nosed c0ckwomble...
It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who ran to catch last minute trains when the prospect of Christmas being cancelled suddenly appeared. It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who still held large Christmas gatherings with their families - causing the surge in cases and deaths seen during January.
We've also got our very own c0ckwomble on this forum who has pretty much said he would be happy for a few oldies to die if it meant he could go back to a normal life.
So whilst I agree with this experts argument that giving up holidays and/or being prepared to do two week forced quarantine would be worth it to suppress numbers and get back to some sort of normality (and here in Australia that has been widely accepted) - do we think the British public en masse would say 'sure, I'll give up on holidays for this year'? |  | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:21 - Feb 11 with 3070 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:13 - Feb 11 by IPS_wich |
She makes complete sense, and whilst this MP is clearly a toffee nosed c0ckwomble...
It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who ran to catch last minute trains when the prospect of Christmas being cancelled suddenly appeared. It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who still held large Christmas gatherings with their families - causing the surge in cases and deaths seen during January.
We've also got our very own c0ckwomble on this forum who has pretty much said he would be happy for a few oldies to die if it meant he could go back to a normal life.
So whilst I agree with this experts argument that giving up holidays and/or being prepared to do two week forced quarantine would be worth it to suppress numbers and get back to some sort of normality (and here in Australia that has been widely accepted) - do we think the British public en masse would say 'sure, I'll give up on holidays for this year'? |
The problem with everything Covid is the drift to the extremes of either end of the 'argument' to try and get the point across.
People like this MP saying "we'll be locked up forever", which is clearly emotive but untrue doesn't help anyone but plays to those who want a simpler message.
The scientist will lose those same people with the argument on why it isn't true because it involves listening for 3 minutes so they become 'distrusted experts'.
Holidays will be possible later this year for example, just not in the way people were maybe promised by the charlatan of a Prime Minister. And maybe not like we had pre-Covid for this year anyway.
That seems a small sacrifice to make to allow longer term return to normality and not see another lockdown in 3 months time. | | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:23 - Feb 11 with 3066 views | Herbivore |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:13 - Feb 11 by IPS_wich |
She makes complete sense, and whilst this MP is clearly a toffee nosed c0ckwomble...
It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who ran to catch last minute trains when the prospect of Christmas being cancelled suddenly appeared. It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who still held large Christmas gatherings with their families - causing the surge in cases and deaths seen during January.
We've also got our very own c0ckwomble on this forum who has pretty much said he would be happy for a few oldies to die if it meant he could go back to a normal life.
So whilst I agree with this experts argument that giving up holidays and/or being prepared to do two week forced quarantine would be worth it to suppress numbers and get back to some sort of normality (and here in Australia that has been widely accepted) - do we think the British public en masse would say 'sure, I'll give up on holidays for this year'? |
The point is that in giving the same platform to someone putting forward the idea that we should just come out of lockdown with no scientific basis to support such a course of action as is given to an actual scientist giving an informed view is problematic. It treats those views as equal, an eye roll for KGM only goes so far in addressing that.
People like Paz will hear that view being presented alongside an actual scientist and genuinely think that this is a two sides of the argument issue. It's not. There's one side of the argument and then there's people moaning vaguely about liberty. That's not an argument, that's pant wetting levels of entitlement. Unless the likes of Walker can construct a cogent and evidence-based argument rather than just whining, I don't see why he should be given a platform alongside someone like Devi Sridhar. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 8:24]
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:25 - Feb 11 with 3059 views | itfcjoe |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:13 - Feb 11 by IPS_wich |
She makes complete sense, and whilst this MP is clearly a toffee nosed c0ckwomble...
It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who ran to catch last minute trains when the prospect of Christmas being cancelled suddenly appeared. It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who still held large Christmas gatherings with their families - causing the surge in cases and deaths seen during January.
We've also got our very own c0ckwomble on this forum who has pretty much said he would be happy for a few oldies to die if it meant he could go back to a normal life.
So whilst I agree with this experts argument that giving up holidays and/or being prepared to do two week forced quarantine would be worth it to suppress numbers and get back to some sort of normality (and here in Australia that has been widely accepted) - do we think the British public en masse would say 'sure, I'll give up on holidays for this year'? |
The problem here is that there has never been the clarity required, if they said now there will be no summer holidays, except with a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks at the end of it at a cost of £1,500 then people would grumble, weigh up if it is worth it, then get on with their life.
The Govt has consistently tried to dangle a carrot and tied themselves up in knots trying to deliver it - people can accept bad news.....but the goalposts constantly being moved when supposed good news is just round the corner is much harder |  |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:27 - Feb 11 with 3053 views | tractordownsouth |
I’ve still not worked out how to link posts from other threads on here so I’ll just copy and paste what I wrote about him yesterday:
Awful individual. There's been a clip of him going round on social media doing a speech in parliament claiming to stick up for those having a tough time during lockdown and everyone's praising him. However, he didn't say a word about the potential Universal Credit cut or vote for more Free School Meals so it's not about sticking up for others, it's about himself. And while I agree that mental health support should be increased (something he probably voted against too), I'd argue that those who have had family members die of Covid are also feeling pretty terrible, yet he shows no concern for them.
If he was left-wing he'd be accused of virtue signalling. |  |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:30 - Feb 11 with 3032 views | IPS_wich |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:23 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
The point is that in giving the same platform to someone putting forward the idea that we should just come out of lockdown with no scientific basis to support such a course of action as is given to an actual scientist giving an informed view is problematic. It treats those views as equal, an eye roll for KGM only goes so far in addressing that.
People like Paz will hear that view being presented alongside an actual scientist and genuinely think that this is a two sides of the argument issue. It's not. There's one side of the argument and then there's people moaning vaguely about liberty. That's not an argument, that's pant wetting levels of entitlement. Unless the likes of Walker can construct a cogent and evidence-based argument rather than just whining, I don't see why he should be given a platform alongside someone like Devi Sridhar. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 8:24]
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No argument from me there. | | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:31 - Feb 11 with 3028 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:25 - Feb 11 by itfcjoe |
The problem here is that there has never been the clarity required, if they said now there will be no summer holidays, except with a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks at the end of it at a cost of £1,500 then people would grumble, weigh up if it is worth it, then get on with their life.
The Govt has consistently tried to dangle a carrot and tied themselves up in knots trying to deliver it - people can accept bad news.....but the goalposts constantly being moved when supposed good news is just round the corner is much harder |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:32 - Feb 11 with 3020 views | IPS_wich |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:25 - Feb 11 by itfcjoe |
The problem here is that there has never been the clarity required, if they said now there will be no summer holidays, except with a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks at the end of it at a cost of £1,500 then people would grumble, weigh up if it is worth it, then get on with their life.
The Govt has consistently tried to dangle a carrot and tied themselves up in knots trying to deliver it - people can accept bad news.....but the goalposts constantly being moved when supposed good news is just round the corner is much harder |
Very true - the Australian state premiers who have introduced such draconian measures - and communicated them clearly - currently sit at approval ratings in the 80-90% range.
There's no ambiguity, no false hopes, just a commitment to keep the population safe.
Who would have thought!! | | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:36 - Feb 11 with 3008 views | Herbivore |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:25 - Feb 11 by itfcjoe |
The problem here is that there has never been the clarity required, if they said now there will be no summer holidays, except with a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks at the end of it at a cost of £1,500 then people would grumble, weigh up if it is worth it, then get on with their life.
The Govt has consistently tried to dangle a carrot and tied themselves up in knots trying to deliver it - people can accept bad news.....but the goalposts constantly being moved when supposed good news is just round the corner is much harder |
I do have a tiny bit of sympathy for the government on this one, a very tiny bit. We're in a global pandemic and we don't necessarily know how things are going to pan out. People want certainty but it's not always possible to give them that, especially when looking 6 months down the line at what foreign travel might look like. | |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:54 - Feb 11 with 2932 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:36 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
I do have a tiny bit of sympathy for the government on this one, a very tiny bit. We're in a global pandemic and we don't necessarily know how things are going to pan out. People want certainty but it's not always possible to give them that, especially when looking 6 months down the line at what foreign travel might look like. |
They could always just tell people that, rather than constantly dangle end dates under people's noses. It's an option. |  |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:56 - Feb 11 with 2924 views | Herbivore |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:54 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
They could always just tell people that, rather than constantly dangle end dates under people's noses. It's an option. |
Completely agree, communication for most of the pandemic has been atrocious. But this is a government that won't admit uncertainty or fallibility. | |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:13 - Feb 11 with 2891 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:56 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
Completely agree, communication for most of the pandemic has been atrocious. But this is a government that won't admit uncertainty or fallibility. |
Yep, and much to our loss. Fk this Government, etc... | |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:17 - Feb 11 with 2877 views | BlueLikeJazz |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:36 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
I do have a tiny bit of sympathy for the government on this one, a very tiny bit. We're in a global pandemic and we don't necessarily know how things are going to pan out. People want certainty but it's not always possible to give them that, especially when looking 6 months down the line at what foreign travel might look like. |
I don't have any sympathy for them. Johnson wanted the job, what did he think it was going to be like, just one endless parade of him making his ridiculous overblown content-free speeches while everyone else chortles and brays like they're all half-p*ssed down the Oxford Union? Lesson is, don't send clowns to do serious jobs. | | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:19 - Feb 11 with 2863 views | Beckets |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:17 - Feb 11 by BlueLikeJazz |
I don't have any sympathy for them. Johnson wanted the job, what did he think it was going to be like, just one endless parade of him making his ridiculous overblown content-free speeches while everyone else chortles and brays like they're all half-p*ssed down the Oxford Union? Lesson is, don't send clowns to do serious jobs. |
And don’t send populists to do serious jobs. |  | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:21 - Feb 11 with 2858 views | GlasgowBlue |
And we have dangerous cranks like Julia Hartley-Brewer using her public platform to spread views that people who comply with lockdown and other social distancing measures are no different than those who turned a blind eye to the rise of Nazism in Germany.
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:35 - Feb 11 with 2824 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:21 - Feb 11 by GlasgowBlue |
And we have dangerous cranks like Julia Hartley-Brewer using her public platform to spread views that people who comply with lockdown and other social distancing measures are no different than those who turned a blind eye to the rise of Nazism in Germany.
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She'll be right at home on GB News won't she?
There are hangers-on like this too. She is a failed swimwear firm owner, but has become an 'expert' on all things Covid
[Post edited 11 Feb 2021 9:39]
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:44 - Feb 11 with 2794 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:35 - Feb 11 by ElderGrizzly |
She'll be right at home on GB News won't she?
There are hangers-on like this too. She is a failed swimwear firm owner, but has become an 'expert' on all things Covid
[Post edited 11 Feb 2021 9:39]
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She hadn’t been signed up by GB News. | |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:46 - Feb 11 with 2783 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:44 - Feb 11 by GlasgowBlue |
She hadn’t been signed up by GB News. |
Andrew Neil said she would be a regular guest contributor. | | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:48 - Feb 11 with 2782 views | StokieBlue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:21 - Feb 11 by GlasgowBlue |
And we have dangerous cranks like Julia Hartley-Brewer using her public platform to spread views that people who comply with lockdown and other social distancing measures are no different than those who turned a blind eye to the rise of Nazism in Germany.
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There was as segment on Newsnight last night about the situation in the Netherlands. It's quite incredible that with regards to C19 and conspiracies Wilder is actually the sensible one. QNAN and C19 conspiracies are running riot over there and many people are then literally running riot in the streets.
I was hoping we wouldn't see this nonsense penetrate so deeply in Europe.
SB |  | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:54 - Feb 11 with 2747 views | 26_Paz |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:13 - Feb 11 by IPS_wich |
She makes complete sense, and whilst this MP is clearly a toffee nosed c0ckwomble...
It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who ran to catch last minute trains when the prospect of Christmas being cancelled suddenly appeared. It wasn't just wealthy middle aged men who still held large Christmas gatherings with their families - causing the surge in cases and deaths seen during January.
We've also got our very own c0ckwomble on this forum who has pretty much said he would be happy for a few oldies to die if it meant he could go back to a normal life.
So whilst I agree with this experts argument that giving up holidays and/or being prepared to do two week forced quarantine would be worth it to suppress numbers and get back to some sort of normality (and here in Australia that has been widely accepted) - do we think the British public en masse would say 'sure, I'll give up on holidays for this year'? |
No need for the abuse |  |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:56 - Feb 11 with 2743 views | m14_blue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:21 - Feb 11 by GlasgowBlue |
And we have dangerous cranks like Julia Hartley-Brewer using her public platform to spread views that people who comply with lockdown and other social distancing measures are no different than those who turned a blind eye to the rise of Nazism in Germany.
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She’s using her Twitter echo chamber to dog whistle to all the conspiracy theorist lunatics whilst grossly insulting 99% of the British Publix who have made enormous sacrifices for the greater good and endured incredible hardships.
Fcuk her. | | | |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:57 - Feb 11 with 2735 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 09:46 - Feb 11 by ElderGrizzly |
Andrew Neil said she would be a regular guest contributor. |
Do you have a link? I’ve seen plenty of speculation that’s she’s on a “wish list”. | |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 10:01 - Feb 11 with 2703 views | 26_Paz |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 08:23 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
The point is that in giving the same platform to someone putting forward the idea that we should just come out of lockdown with no scientific basis to support such a course of action as is given to an actual scientist giving an informed view is problematic. It treats those views as equal, an eye roll for KGM only goes so far in addressing that.
People like Paz will hear that view being presented alongside an actual scientist and genuinely think that this is a two sides of the argument issue. It's not. There's one side of the argument and then there's people moaning vaguely about liberty. That's not an argument, that's pant wetting levels of entitlement. Unless the likes of Walker can construct a cogent and evidence-based argument rather than just whining, I don't see why he should be given a platform alongside someone like Devi Sridhar. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 8:24]
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There are two sides to it, it’s about the amount of deaths that are deemed ‘acceptable’ to enable wider freedoms. Some think this amount is higher than others. | |
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| Two sides of the Covid argument on 10:02 - Feb 11 with 2692 views | StokieBlue |
| Two sides of the Covid argument on 10:01 - Feb 11 by 26_Paz |
There are two sides to it, it’s about the amount of deaths that are deemed ‘acceptable’ to enable wider freedoms. Some think this amount is higher than others. |
You're on record on saying that any amount of deaths is acceptable though, you were directly asked about this.
In your own words:
"You can't put a price on freedom"
So given that position are you surprised you get a lot of stick?
SB | | | |
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