| Rainbow collalition? 09:41 - May 8 with 1569 views | bluelagos |
So a few thoughts over the results. Firstly, clearly terrible results for Labour in England. We can argue all day why, but one simple fact seems clear to me: The right is now unified as the Tory party (no Brexit party - reform did sfa) but the left is split between Lab / Lib / Greens and nationalists.
In total - I don't see a huge disparity - just that the electoral system rewards parties over 40% which Labour is nowhere near. Same voting split in a general election and the Tories are in 100+ majority territory.
So - is it time for a left of center collation? Divide up the seats and just put up one candidate in every seat at the election? [Post edited 8 May 2021 9:42]
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| Rainbow collalition? on 09:43 - May 8 with 1323 views | The_Last_Baron |
There is no love between Labour and the Lib Dems. They also have completely different policies and support basis. I know Lib voters who'd rather vote Tory than Labour. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 09:49 - May 8 with 1304 views | bluelagos |
| Rainbow collalition? on 09:43 - May 8 by The_Last_Baron |
There is no love between Labour and the Lib Dems. They also have completely different policies and support basis. I know Lib voters who'd rather vote Tory than Labour. |
Lots of practical difficulties, but if you can put a man on the moon, can't be beyond the wit of man to agree on some agreed policies. They do it all over Europe, albeit usually after not before an election.
Sure they'd lose some voters if it's seen as a Labour project - rather than a joint effort. But the alternative is the left vote getting split and the Tories walking the next election. Maybe it's time to be a bit more grown up? | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:00 - May 8 with 1265 views | Pinewoodblue |
Looks like it kinda worked in Cambridgeshire where Tories lost overall control.
No formal pact but Labour didn’t contest five seats in South Cambs and LibDems won them all. Guess Labour concentrated on keeping control of Cambridge City where Conservatives didn’t win any seats.
Overall it looks as if LibDems held their own. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:03 - May 8 with 1256 views | BlueBadger |
| Rainbow collalition? on 09:43 - May 8 by The_Last_Baron |
There is no love between Labour and the Lib Dems. They also have completely different policies and support basis. I know Lib voters who'd rather vote Tory than Labour. |
In all fairness, there's Labour supporters on here who'd rather see the Tories win rather than a Labour part led by anyone other than the Dear Leader... |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:05 - May 8 with 1255 views | BlueBadger |
| Rainbow collalition? on 09:49 - May 8 by bluelagos |
Lots of practical difficulties, but if you can put a man on the moon, can't be beyond the wit of man to agree on some agreed policies. They do it all over Europe, albeit usually after not before an election.
Sure they'd lose some voters if it's seen as a Labour project - rather than a joint effort. But the alternative is the left vote getting split and the Tories walking the next election. Maybe it's time to be a bit more grown up? |
Definitely needs some pragmatism, right now. As with the US. The important thing is removing the far-right from government, right now. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:06 - May 8 with 1245 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rainbow collalition? on 09:43 - May 8 by The_Last_Baron |
There is no love between Labour and the Lib Dems. They also have completely different policies and support basis. I know Lib voters who'd rather vote Tory than Labour. |
This is true. Unfortunately there are also Labour voters who would rather vote Tory than Labour thanks to Brexit.
The LibDems have always been damaged by the threat to voters "watch out for them they will let Labour in" and people remember the "Lib-Lab pact".
Don't forget they actually aligned with the Conservative party to form government. No one seems to bring up the threat of another "ConDemNation".
The issue is the split of the left-wing vote. However, the alliance is not the answer. The only way it could be was if the alliance had a single aim of reforming the electoral system to make it more representative and then hold a new election straightaway. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:07 - May 8 with 1241 views | bluelagos |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:05 - May 8 by BlueBadger |
Definitely needs some pragmatism, right now. As with the US. The important thing is removing the far-right from government, right now. |
This is it. All the factions in Labour falling out with one another - and it's only going to get a fck load worse - and who gains? The only winners are the Tories. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:09 - May 8 with 1223 views | Darth_Koont |
I’d love to see it but that needs a new conversation about what is the left and what are progressive policies. As it stands, you have centrists in politics and the media who punch left the hardest and do the most to undermine even social democratic policies.
But yes, if we can get round them, then an alliance around a Green New Deal and PR would be fantastic. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:10 - May 8 with 1221 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:07 - May 8 by bluelagos |
This is it. All the factions in Labour falling out with one another - and it's only going to get a fck load worse - and who gains? The only winners are the Tories. |
It is notable that the Tories can fall out over Brexit etc but when push comes to shove they unite. That doesn't seem to be the case with the Labour party. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:14 - May 8 with 1199 views | footers |
That would be nice but it's clear Labour are heading right and wouldn!t have much in common with many progressives. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:17 - May 8 with 1179 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:14 - May 8 by footers |
That would be nice but it's clear Labour are heading right and wouldn!t have much in common with many progressives. |
Indeed. And the noises from Labour HQ suggest they’re going to use the results to push right even faster and further.
Clearly a death cult. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:17 - May 8 with 1178 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:14 - May 8 by footers |
That would be nice but it's clear Labour are heading right and wouldn!t have much in common with many progressives. |
Where is the ground that Labour can win?
They really need some clear soundbite that hits at the heart of the electorate and connects with the electorate. The last time they got power it was "education, education, education".
Maybe "war on poverty" or something that will show about really investing in the NHS (I don't think "NHS, NHS, NHS" works as well as "education, education, education" does it?) | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:20 - May 8 with 1164 views | bluelagos |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:06 - May 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
This is true. Unfortunately there are also Labour voters who would rather vote Tory than Labour thanks to Brexit.
The LibDems have always been damaged by the threat to voters "watch out for them they will let Labour in" and people remember the "Lib-Lab pact".
Don't forget they actually aligned with the Conservative party to form government. No one seems to bring up the threat of another "ConDemNation".
The issue is the split of the left-wing vote. However, the alliance is not the answer. The only way it could be was if the alliance had a single aim of reforming the electoral system to make it more representative and then hold a new election straightaway. |
I reckon they could make electoral reform part of the joint manifesto. Strong on green policies too. There'd surely be 3+ years of bits to do before they call another election under the new system.
We have PR with consistencies working in Scotland - could easily come up with something for the UK. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 10:29 - May 8 with 1138 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:03 - May 8 by BlueBadger |
In all fairness, there's Labour supporters on here who'd rather see the Tories win rather than a Labour part led by anyone other than the Dear Leader... |
Steady. Your ridiculous hypocrisy is showing. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:18 - May 8 with 1069 views | Guthrum |
| Rainbow collalition? on 09:49 - May 8 by bluelagos |
Lots of practical difficulties, but if you can put a man on the moon, can't be beyond the wit of man to agree on some agreed policies. They do it all over Europe, albeit usually after not before an election.
Sure they'd lose some voters if it's seen as a Labour project - rather than a joint effort. But the alternative is the left vote getting split and the Tories walking the next election. Maybe it's time to be a bit more grown up? |
Putting a man on the moon is a mere physics and engineering problem, child's play compared with achieving policy agreement. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:25 - May 8 with 1055 views | Guthrum |
The issues with an alliance specifically to force the Conservatives from power are:
1) Why? There has to be a positive reason for it, one which will gain traction with the electorate. Being dodgy is, as we've seen, not enough. There has to be a clear, demonstrable economic benefit.
2) What exactly are you going to replace them with? Smashing the system is all very well, but you need a new one to function in its place. Upon what practical measures can Labour, the LibDems, the Greens and the SNP all agree? What compromises are all those parties prepared to make in order to make things work? How much power are they prepared to give up to let the others win the seats needed? Would such a manifesto appeal to enough people to get them elected at all? | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:27 - May 8 with 1037 views | Guthrum |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:20 - May 8 by bluelagos |
I reckon they could make electoral reform part of the joint manifesto. Strong on green policies too. There'd surely be 3+ years of bits to do before they call another election under the new system.
We have PR with consistencies working in Scotland - could easily come up with something for the UK. |
Labour have long hated electoral reform, as they feel it would damage their ability to maximise the number of seats gained. In truth, they're probably right. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:29 - May 8 with 1023 views | Guthrum |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:06 - May 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
This is true. Unfortunately there are also Labour voters who would rather vote Tory than Labour thanks to Brexit.
The LibDems have always been damaged by the threat to voters "watch out for them they will let Labour in" and people remember the "Lib-Lab pact".
Don't forget they actually aligned with the Conservative party to form government. No one seems to bring up the threat of another "ConDemNation".
The issue is the split of the left-wing vote. However, the alliance is not the answer. The only way it could be was if the alliance had a single aim of reforming the electoral system to make it more representative and then hold a new election straightaway. |
There are many people who refuse to consider voting LibDem ever again, because tuition fees and having been in coalition with the Tories. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:31 - May 8 with 1016 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rainbow collalition? on 11:27 - May 8 by Guthrum |
Labour have long hated electoral reform, as they feel it would damage their ability to maximise the number of seats gained. In truth, they're probably right. |
Proportional representation would reduce the chances of any one party having overall control without a coalition. Labour still believe they can get power despite the distinct remoteness of it for so long now for them.
A single transferrable vote would probably be a preferable system for Labour but Green and probably LibDem are likely to prefer some form of proportional representation. Even if they could come to some agreement that would allow them to form a coalition, would they be able to sell it to sufficient of the electorate to get the mandate to implement it? | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:32 - May 8 with 1015 views | WD19 |
The Labour party cant even agree amongst themselves, so I think the idea of them agreeing anything with an assortment of other people is a touch fanciful. |  | | |
| Rainbow collalition? on 11:33 - May 8 with 1014 views | pointofblue |
| Rainbow collalition? on 11:25 - May 8 by Guthrum |
The issues with an alliance specifically to force the Conservatives from power are:
1) Why? There has to be a positive reason for it, one which will gain traction with the electorate. Being dodgy is, as we've seen, not enough. There has to be a clear, demonstrable economic benefit.
2) What exactly are you going to replace them with? Smashing the system is all very well, but you need a new one to function in its place. Upon what practical measures can Labour, the LibDems, the Greens and the SNP all agree? What compromises are all those parties prepared to make in order to make things work? How much power are they prepared to give up to let the others win the seats needed? Would such a manifesto appeal to enough people to get them elected at all? |
If the SNP are involved in the coalition then it will drive a lot of England into the arms of the Conservatives (those who aren’t already) rather than vote for a coalition who will grant another independence referendum. Unless the SNP drop that pledge but, firstly, why should they do that and, secondly, I doubt people would have faith in them keeping to their word. Plus politics in Scotland is more split between remain and leave than left and right. |  |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:36 - May 8 with 994 views | tractordownsouth |
| Rainbow collalition? on 10:03 - May 8 by BlueBadger |
In all fairness, there's Labour supporters on here who'd rather see the Tories win rather than a Labour part led by anyone other than the Dear Leader... |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:41 - May 8 with 989 views | Guthrum |
| Rainbow collalition? on 11:31 - May 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Proportional representation would reduce the chances of any one party having overall control without a coalition. Labour still believe they can get power despite the distinct remoteness of it for so long now for them.
A single transferrable vote would probably be a preferable system for Labour but Green and probably LibDem are likely to prefer some form of proportional representation. Even if they could come to some agreement that would allow them to form a coalition, would they be able to sell it to sufficient of the electorate to get the mandate to implement it? |
If the proposed system was straightforward and well presented (unlike last time), then I think there is a fair chance the electorate might go for it.
My favourites are either larger constituencies with multiple MPs elected by PR within each, or a Scottish-type dual constituency-plus-list system. | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:42 - May 8 with 987 views | Guthrum |
| Rainbow collalition? on 11:33 - May 8 by pointofblue |
If the SNP are involved in the coalition then it will drive a lot of England into the arms of the Conservatives (those who aren’t already) rather than vote for a coalition who will grant another independence referendum. Unless the SNP drop that pledge but, firstly, why should they do that and, secondly, I doubt people would have faith in them keeping to their word. Plus politics in Scotland is more split between remain and leave than left and right. |
But without the SNP, would any grand coalition stand a chance of defeating the Conservatives? | |
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| Rainbow collalition? on 11:54 - May 8 with 949 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rainbow collalition? on 11:42 - May 8 by Guthrum |
But without the SNP, would any grand coalition stand a chance of defeating the Conservatives? |
Should do. They’ll clearly need to avoid this being drawn up on Leave/Remain lines but in a more normal election an alliance would only need 40% of the vote, probably even less as it would be targeted campaigning.
But I can see the biggest barrier to it being the media. Who will of course dress it up as Leave vs. Remain and exaggerate/misrepresent every aspect of an alliance. Just like on the Labour Right, a progressive alliance would be the biggest threat to their personal and professional establishment aspirations.
The best hope is that such a movement would pull Labour back towards something more relevant: representing the country and people’s actual interests. | |
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