| Thank you for the Numbers 08:41 - Sep 9 with 2469 views | markchips |
Now the full ins and outs are on EADT this morning and Mark Ashton has provided a full explanation let us win on Saturday and get this show on the road.
19 players in and 38 out .
So twice as many players left as joined.
Division One- we didn't need to get the cheque book out - we are just smarter. |  | | |  |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 08:47 - Sep 9 with 2186 views | itfcjoe |
If we've only brought 19 players in, then we haven't let 38 go out as it means we are counting players that shouldn't count for the latter |  |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:00 - Sep 9 with 2125 views | ElephantintheRoom |
If any of what Ashton said was actually true, the fees wouldnt be 'undisclosed' - but disclosed and accountable.
The truth is he is winging it on the blind hope and arrogance of assuming promotion - and not having to be accountable to Division 3 rules and regulations.
As yet that assumed arrogance looks a tad misplaced. | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:01 - Sep 9 with 2118 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 08:47 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
If we've only brought 19 players in, then we haven't let 38 go out as it means we are counting players that shouldn't count for the latter |
He's counting players we've sent out on loan.
Other than in terms of wages, why shouldn't you count those? They're not available to Cook.
All the ins and outs are at the end of this EADT article;
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ashton-on-itfc-and-financial-fair-play |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:02 - Sep 9 with 2111 views | catch74 |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 08:47 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
If we've only brought 19 players in, then we haven't let 38 go out as it means we are counting players that shouldn't count for the latter |
Think he’s counting players loaned out, as we’re also loaning players in. Large number of these are youngsters though. |  |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:03 - Sep 9 with 2100 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:00 - Sep 9 by ElephantintheRoom |
If any of what Ashton said was actually true, the fees wouldnt be 'undisclosed' - but disclosed and accountable.
The truth is he is winging it on the blind hope and arrogance of assuming promotion - and not having to be accountable to Division 3 rules and regulations.
As yet that assumed arrogance looks a tad misplaced. |
Why don't you change your name to Bullsh!tintheRoom? That's all you spout. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:08 - Sep 9 with 2060 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Because if you’re counting players that have left the club following loans ending, you also have to count those returning from loan as incoming players
Similarly the likes of Ross Crane, Colin Oppong etc are included as outgoing players, but not incoming youths or minor signings like Callum Page [Post edited 9 Sep 2021 9:11]
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:19 - Sep 9 with 2001 views | FBI |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:00 - Sep 9 by ElephantintheRoom |
If any of what Ashton said was actually true, the fees wouldnt be 'undisclosed' - but disclosed and accountable.
The truth is he is winging it on the blind hope and arrogance of assuming promotion - and not having to be accountable to Division 3 rules and regulations.
As yet that assumed arrogance looks a tad misplaced. |
Jesus wept. Just out of interest, what exactly would make you happy? |  |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:19 - Sep 9 with 1998 views | itfcjoe |
Half of those were out on loan at times last year - plus we have signed players for U23s like Page and Ward who aren't included......plus 12 new scholars etc who are as relevant as Tyrese Osbourne or Lewis Ridd going out on loan etc... | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:21 - Sep 9 with 1977 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:19 - Sep 9 by FBI |
Jesus wept. Just out of interest, what exactly would make you happy? |
I thinking posting nonsense on here makes him happy. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:22 - Sep 9 with 1956 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:08 - Sep 9 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Because if you’re counting players that have left the club following loans ending, you also have to count those returning from loan as incoming players
Similarly the likes of Ross Crane, Colin Oppong etc are included as outgoing players, but not incoming youths or minor signings like Callum Page [Post edited 9 Sep 2021 9:11]
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Fair enough. Weird the EADT have worded it like that then. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:44 - Sep 9 with 1834 views | Beckets |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:22 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Fair enough. Weird the EADT have worded it like that then. |
I think they’ve done that to support Ashton’s narrative. I would say the reality is we’ve cut the first team squad by about half a dozen and that cut could increase in January with Barry sent back to Villa and if we are able to dispose of Jackson and Nolan then. |  | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:52 - Sep 9 with 1773 views | Mookamoo |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:44 - Sep 9 by Beckets |
I think they’ve done that to support Ashton’s narrative. I would say the reality is we’ve cut the first team squad by about half a dozen and that cut could increase in January with Barry sent back to Villa and if we are able to dispose of Jackson and Nolan then. |
Archant have a good thing going with Ashton. They must see a significant spike in traffic every time they post an interview and are clearly not going to do too much fact finding.
I'm fine with 'roughly net' for the year. I wouldn't want to buy a used car off him though. |  | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:13 - Sep 9 with 1664 views | SamWhiteUK |
Here is a copy-and-paste:
IN (19): Wes Burns (Fleetwood, undisc), Lee Evans (Wigan, free), Rekeem Harper (West Brom, undisc), Macauley Bonne (QPR, loan), Vaclav Hladky (Salford, undisc), Matt Penney (Sheff Weds, free), Joe Pigott (AFC Wimbledon, free), Scott Fraser (MK Dons, undisc), George Edmundson (Rangers, undisc), Conor Chaplin (Barnsley, undisc), Louie Barry (Aston Villa, loan), Sone Aluko (Reading, free), Kyle Edwards (West Brom, free), Hayden Coulson (Middlesbrough, loan), Cameron Burgess (Accrington Stanley, undisc), Tom Carroll (QPR, free), Christian Walton (Brighton, loan), Bersant Celina (Dijon, loan), Sam Morsy (Middlesbrough, undisc).
OUT (20): Flynn Downes (Swansea City, undisc), Andre Dozzell (QPR, £1m), Liam Gibbs (Norwich City, undisc), Teddy Bishop (Lincoln City, undisc), David Cornell (contract terminated, joined Peterborough), Stephen Ward (released, joined Walsall), Luke Chambers (released, joined Colchester), James Wilson (released, joined Plymouth), Gwion Edwards (turned down new deal, joined Wigan), Cole Skuse (released, joined Colchester), Tristan Nydam (released), Alan Judge (released, joined Colchester), Oli Hawkins (Mansfield, undisc), Jack Lankester (Cambridge United, undisc), Emyr Huws (released), Freddie Sears (released, joined Colchester), Aaron Drinan (Leyton Orient, undisc), Adam Przybek (released, joined Wycombe Wanderers), Harry Wright (released, joined Fleetwood), Ben Folami (released, joined Melbourne Victory).
LOANS EXPIRED (6): Keanan Bennetts, Josh Harrop, Troy Parrott, Mark McGuinness, Luke Matheson, Luke Thomas.
OUT ON LOAN (12): Armando Dobra (Colchester), Corrie Ndaba (Salford), Tyreece Simpson (Swindon), Brett McGavin (King's Lynn Town), Bert White (Gosport Borough), Tyrese Osbourne (AFC Sudbury), Lewis Ridd (AFC Sudbury), Callum Page (Needham Market), Tommy Smith (Lowestoft), Colin Oppong (Lowestoft), Ola Bello (Lowestoft), Ross Crane (Concord Rangers).
19 in, including loans in. 32 out, including loans out. 6 people who returned to their previous clubs |  | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:20 - Sep 9 with 1616 views | FrankfurtBlue |
If you really want to make a fairer comparison of the numbers:
IN
14 permanent first team signings
5 loans
19 TOTAL
OUT
17 permanent first teamers (excluding the U23s Przybek, Wright and Folami)
6 loans
23 TOTAL
Those sent out on loan are mostly youngsters and will presumably only have a tiny positive financial impact.
So, not such a great difference in terms of numbers in and out, but presumably the costs involved in bringing in the new signings and paying them are higher than for those who left. How much more? Only a few people at the club know for sure, but if Ashton is to be believed, the transfer fees in and out are almost net, and the wage bill is within budget and SCMP rules. |  | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:28 - Sep 9 with 1566 views | itfcjoe |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:13 - Sep 9 by SamWhiteUK |
Here is a copy-and-paste:
IN (19): Wes Burns (Fleetwood, undisc), Lee Evans (Wigan, free), Rekeem Harper (West Brom, undisc), Macauley Bonne (QPR, loan), Vaclav Hladky (Salford, undisc), Matt Penney (Sheff Weds, free), Joe Pigott (AFC Wimbledon, free), Scott Fraser (MK Dons, undisc), George Edmundson (Rangers, undisc), Conor Chaplin (Barnsley, undisc), Louie Barry (Aston Villa, loan), Sone Aluko (Reading, free), Kyle Edwards (West Brom, free), Hayden Coulson (Middlesbrough, loan), Cameron Burgess (Accrington Stanley, undisc), Tom Carroll (QPR, free), Christian Walton (Brighton, loan), Bersant Celina (Dijon, loan), Sam Morsy (Middlesbrough, undisc).
OUT (20): Flynn Downes (Swansea City, undisc), Andre Dozzell (QPR, £1m), Liam Gibbs (Norwich City, undisc), Teddy Bishop (Lincoln City, undisc), David Cornell (contract terminated, joined Peterborough), Stephen Ward (released, joined Walsall), Luke Chambers (released, joined Colchester), James Wilson (released, joined Plymouth), Gwion Edwards (turned down new deal, joined Wigan), Cole Skuse (released, joined Colchester), Tristan Nydam (released), Alan Judge (released, joined Colchester), Oli Hawkins (Mansfield, undisc), Jack Lankester (Cambridge United, undisc), Emyr Huws (released), Freddie Sears (released, joined Colchester), Aaron Drinan (Leyton Orient, undisc), Adam Przybek (released, joined Wycombe Wanderers), Harry Wright (released, joined Fleetwood), Ben Folami (released, joined Melbourne Victory).
LOANS EXPIRED (6): Keanan Bennetts, Josh Harrop, Troy Parrott, Mark McGuinness, Luke Matheson, Luke Thomas.
OUT ON LOAN (12): Armando Dobra (Colchester), Corrie Ndaba (Salford), Tyreece Simpson (Swindon), Brett McGavin (King's Lynn Town), Bert White (Gosport Borough), Tyrese Osbourne (AFC Sudbury), Lewis Ridd (AFC Sudbury), Callum Page (Needham Market), Tommy Smith (Lowestoft), Colin Oppong (Lowestoft), Ola Bello (Lowestoft), Ross Crane (Concord Rangers).
19 in, including loans in. 32 out, including loans out. 6 people who returned to their previous clubs |
Looking at actual first teamers - realistically it is 19 in and 21 out and 2 of those loan players had returned to their clubs right at the start of Cook's reign as it is (Matheson and Thomas).
Of the 38 who left - a quick count of them without checking up on it leaves me with 19 who actually played more than 30 mins or so under Cook - someone may be able to spot one or two I'm wrong about:
Downes
Dozzell
Bishop
Cornell
Ward
Chambers
Wilson
Edwards
Skuse
Judge
hawkins
Lankester
Sears
Drinan
Bennetts
Harrop
Parrott
McGuinness
Dobra | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:34 - Sep 9 with 1508 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:28 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
Looking at actual first teamers - realistically it is 19 in and 21 out and 2 of those loan players had returned to their clubs right at the start of Cook's reign as it is (Matheson and Thomas).
Of the 38 who left - a quick count of them without checking up on it leaves me with 19 who actually played more than 30 mins or so under Cook - someone may be able to spot one or two I'm wrong about:
Downes
Dozzell
Bishop
Cornell
Ward
Chambers
Wilson
Edwards
Skuse
Judge
hawkins
Lankester
Sears
Drinan
Bennetts
Harrop
Parrott
McGuinness
Dobra |
Add Donacien to the incomers, if loan terminations are considered an in/out… | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:44 - Sep 9 with 1445 views | itfcjoe |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:20 - Sep 9 by FrankfurtBlue |
If you really want to make a fairer comparison of the numbers:
IN
14 permanent first team signings
5 loans
19 TOTAL
OUT
17 permanent first teamers (excluding the U23s Przybek, Wright and Folami)
6 loans
23 TOTAL
Those sent out on loan are mostly youngsters and will presumably only have a tiny positive financial impact.
So, not such a great difference in terms of numbers in and out, but presumably the costs involved in bringing in the new signings and paying them are higher than for those who left. How much more? Only a few people at the club know for sure, but if Ashton is to be believed, the transfer fees in and out are almost net, and the wage bill is within budget and SCMP rules. |
I think the fees will be about neutral - from the one's I've heard relatively reliably it is something along these lines
Money In
Dozzell - £1m
Downes - £1.5m
Gibbs - £500k
Bishop - £200k
Lankester, Drinan, Hawkins, etc - negligible
Approx - £3.25m to £3.5m
Money Out
Burns - £150k
Harper - £250k
Hladky - £300k
Fraser - £750k
Edmundson - £800k
Chaplin - £750k
Burgess - £500k
Morsy - £150k
Total - £3.5m
Obviously loan fees as well, so will be a net spend but they come out of a different pot!
With regards to wages, I'd imagine the playing budget will be somewhere near double of what it was last season | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:46 - Sep 9 with 1424 views | JakeITFC |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:44 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
I think the fees will be about neutral - from the one's I've heard relatively reliably it is something along these lines
Money In
Dozzell - £1m
Downes - £1.5m
Gibbs - £500k
Bishop - £200k
Lankester, Drinan, Hawkins, etc - negligible
Approx - £3.25m to £3.5m
Money Out
Burns - £150k
Harper - £250k
Hladky - £300k
Fraser - £750k
Edmundson - £800k
Chaplin - £750k
Burgess - £500k
Morsy - £150k
Total - £3.5m
Obviously loan fees as well, so will be a net spend but they come out of a different pot!
With regards to wages, I'd imagine the playing budget will be somewhere near double of what it was last season |
£150k for Morsy? Surely not. |  | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:52 - Sep 9 with 1385 views | Illinoisblue |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:00 - Sep 9 by ElephantintheRoom |
If any of what Ashton said was actually true, the fees wouldnt be 'undisclosed' - but disclosed and accountable.
The truth is he is winging it on the blind hope and arrogance of assuming promotion - and not having to be accountable to Division 3 rules and regulations.
As yet that assumed arrogance looks a tad misplaced. |
You’re not so much as in the room as frothing on the grassy knoll. |  |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:52 - Sep 9 with 1388 views | Zx1988 |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 09:00 - Sep 9 by ElephantintheRoom |
If any of what Ashton said was actually true, the fees wouldnt be 'undisclosed' - but disclosed and accountable.
The truth is he is winging it on the blind hope and arrogance of assuming promotion - and not having to be accountable to Division 3 rules and regulations.
As yet that assumed arrogance looks a tad misplaced. |
You don't really understand the concept of undisclosed fees, do you?
They work in a number of ways:
* To hide the fact that a club has overpaid for someone
* To hide the fact that a club has sold someone on the cheap
* To hide that the buying club has a certain amount of money to spend
Amongst others.
The truth will out when the accounts are released, and total figures for incoming and outgoing transfer fees are disclosed.
Could it be more likely that we've snagged some players for good fees (it was suggested that Morsy would be a seven-figure signing, yet a number of sources have suggested that the actual fee was a six-figure sum) and the selling clubs would rather not show their weak bargaining position? | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:53 - Sep 9 with 1373 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:46 - Sep 9 by JakeITFC |
£150k for Morsy? Surely not. |
Phil posted on here the other day that he understood it to be low 6-figures, seems Boro were pretty desperate to get his wages off the books | |
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:54 - Sep 9 with 1352 views | JakeITFC |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:53 - Sep 9 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Phil posted on here the other day that he understood it to be low 6-figures, seems Boro were pretty desperate to get his wages off the books |
Crikey, whole thing seems really odd. | | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:56 - Sep 9 with 1329 views | monty_radio |
So the stats seem to have provided the perfect ammunition both for those who want to say that we've upgraded while incurring a decrease in total player numbers and those who wish to have it said that the squad is as large as ever and with probable greater outlay.
One could go on in other directions according to taste e.g. that if we were to compare like with like then we should compare now with the START of last season and thus bring in the likes of Cotter OR perhaps say that though Thomas and Mathieson went back earlier we still paid big for them in the course of the season etc etc.
It feels to me that the cars in the car park at Playford Rd will be fewer than at most points last season when total player numbers well over 50 were often cited. Typically though, they're probably better cars. [Post edited 9 Sep 2021 16:19]
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| Thank you for the Numbers on 11:52 - Sep 9 with 1171 views | PhilTWTD |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:13 - Sep 9 by SamWhiteUK |
Here is a copy-and-paste:
IN (19): Wes Burns (Fleetwood, undisc), Lee Evans (Wigan, free), Rekeem Harper (West Brom, undisc), Macauley Bonne (QPR, loan), Vaclav Hladky (Salford, undisc), Matt Penney (Sheff Weds, free), Joe Pigott (AFC Wimbledon, free), Scott Fraser (MK Dons, undisc), George Edmundson (Rangers, undisc), Conor Chaplin (Barnsley, undisc), Louie Barry (Aston Villa, loan), Sone Aluko (Reading, free), Kyle Edwards (West Brom, free), Hayden Coulson (Middlesbrough, loan), Cameron Burgess (Accrington Stanley, undisc), Tom Carroll (QPR, free), Christian Walton (Brighton, loan), Bersant Celina (Dijon, loan), Sam Morsy (Middlesbrough, undisc).
OUT (20): Flynn Downes (Swansea City, undisc), Andre Dozzell (QPR, £1m), Liam Gibbs (Norwich City, undisc), Teddy Bishop (Lincoln City, undisc), David Cornell (contract terminated, joined Peterborough), Stephen Ward (released, joined Walsall), Luke Chambers (released, joined Colchester), James Wilson (released, joined Plymouth), Gwion Edwards (turned down new deal, joined Wigan), Cole Skuse (released, joined Colchester), Tristan Nydam (released), Alan Judge (released, joined Colchester), Oli Hawkins (Mansfield, undisc), Jack Lankester (Cambridge United, undisc), Emyr Huws (released), Freddie Sears (released, joined Colchester), Aaron Drinan (Leyton Orient, undisc), Adam Przybek (released, joined Wycombe Wanderers), Harry Wright (released, joined Fleetwood), Ben Folami (released, joined Melbourne Victory).
LOANS EXPIRED (6): Keanan Bennetts, Josh Harrop, Troy Parrott, Mark McGuinness, Luke Matheson, Luke Thomas.
OUT ON LOAN (12): Armando Dobra (Colchester), Corrie Ndaba (Salford), Tyreece Simpson (Swindon), Brett McGavin (King's Lynn Town), Bert White (Gosport Borough), Tyrese Osbourne (AFC Sudbury), Lewis Ridd (AFC Sudbury), Callum Page (Needham Market), Tommy Smith (Lowestoft), Colin Oppong (Lowestoft), Ola Bello (Lowestoft), Ross Crane (Concord Rangers).
19 in, including loans in. 32 out, including loans out. 6 people who returned to their previous clubs |
That has a few young pros missing, see the list at the top of the forum for a more comprehensive list of ins and outs. Barry Cotter can also be added to that as he left in March, which is a bit too early to count as a summer exit, I think. |  | | |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 12:23 - Sep 9 with 1087 views | longtimefan |
| Thank you for the Numbers on 10:44 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
I think the fees will be about neutral - from the one's I've heard relatively reliably it is something along these lines
Money In
Dozzell - £1m
Downes - £1.5m
Gibbs - £500k
Bishop - £200k
Lankester, Drinan, Hawkins, etc - negligible
Approx - £3.25m to £3.5m
Money Out
Burns - £150k
Harper - £250k
Hladky - £300k
Fraser - £750k
Edmundson - £800k
Chaplin - £750k
Burgess - £500k
Morsy - £150k
Total - £3.5m
Obviously loan fees as well, so will be a net spend but they come out of a different pot!
With regards to wages, I'd imagine the playing budget will be somewhere near double of what it was last season |
If those transfer fees are correct and also your thoughts on salary level, then it sounds as though we will need a decent equity investment to meet the SCMP requirements. There was some debate previously that the net transfer income was done on a per player basis but looking at the definition in the document Phil referenced in his squad list article it seems pretty clear that it’s applied on a club level basis, not per player.
2.4 Net Transfer Income — Include actual cash received in the year from other clubs by way of Compensation Fee, Transfer Fee and / or Loan Fee (in these Notes, “Transfer Fees”), less any actual cash paid to other clubs by way of Transfer Fees. Any advances of Transfer Fees from organisations such as Close Leasing can only be included where the instalments being advanced against fall due within the Reporting Period covered by the relevant SCMP Submission. | | | |
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