| Thoughts? 10:39 - Jan 24 with 2733 views | hype313 |
I agree with him in a few aspects, like grade 1 listed etc, but if he is saying Wycombe and Boro should just walk away because we are all a football family then it means that Derby can get away with financial mismanagement on a grotesque scale without consequence.
It's a tough one. |  |
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| Thoughts? on 10:41 - Jan 24 with 2658 views | Jon_456 |
More should be done by the authorities to A, stop them spending so ridiculously in the first place and B, act sooner when clubs do break the rules.
Its harsh on the fans but dont think they should be helped out by other clubs. Its their own fault they're in this position. |  | | |
| Thoughts? on 10:49 - Jan 24 with 2577 views | brazil1982 |
I disagree with him. Why should football clubs be treated any differently to private businesses? Football isn't a "family", and for him to cite Wycombe and Boro in this is disgraceful IMO.
Football is a business now and many clubs are run horrifically bad and should suffer the consequences.
There's one easy lesson: stop paying average footballers tonnes of money. |  | | |
| Thoughts? on 10:57 - Jan 24 with 2503 views | Guthrum |
I think Derby have been hit with considerable consequences for their actions. They're skint and almost certain to be playing in League One next season.
I'm not dismissing out of hand Boro and Wycombe's claims of having suffered loss through Derby's misdemeanours, but they are also upon uncertain foundation, in that it was the EFL, not Derby, who were responsible for when the points deductions were applied (thus condemning Wycombe to relegation instead) and it is very subjective to assess that one club would definitely have finished above another if financial cheating had not occurred. Let alone when it's the play-offs and there was no guarantee of subsequently winning them (as Derby failed to do).
Also, if ever those clubs found themselves in trouble, they may need bridges they're currently burning. |  |
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| Thoughts? on 11:00 - Jan 24 with 2475 views | Guthrum |
| Thoughts? on 10:49 - Jan 24 by brazil1982 |
I disagree with him. Why should football clubs be treated any differently to private businesses? Football isn't a "family", and for him to cite Wycombe and Boro in this is disgraceful IMO.
Football is a business now and many clubs are run horrifically bad and should suffer the consequences.
There's one easy lesson: stop paying average footballers tonnes of money. |
Because football shouldn't be a business at all. It is a sport. The root of most of these problems comes from the fact that it has become an arena for people to try making money. | |
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| Thoughts? on 11:07 - Jan 24 with 2410 views | nodge_blue |
If football is a family then Derby should have done the decent thing and taken the points deduction last year which would have meant they went down rather than Wycombe. They acted in selfish interest and now expect Wycombe to be unselfish. |  |
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| Thoughts? on 11:10 - Jan 24 with 2368 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Thoughts? on 10:41 - Jan 24 by Jon_456 |
More should be done by the authorities to A, stop them spending so ridiculously in the first place and B, act sooner when clubs do break the rules.
Its harsh on the fans but dont think they should be helped out by other clubs. Its their own fault they're in this position. |
It's Mel Morris fault they are in this position. This is why the current model operating in football of being beholden to a wealthy individual or group of individuals looking to make money out of the sport is built on sand. You can see why Boro/Wycombe are reticent to 'help' when Morris is still trying to recoup money - I believe he still wants £20m for the stadium from any buyer. That he was allowed to buy it from the club in the first place is wrong. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:10]
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| Thoughts? on 11:12 - Jan 24 with 2327 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Thoughts? on 11:07 - Jan 24 by nodge_blue |
If football is a family then Derby should have done the decent thing and taken the points deduction last year which would have meant they went down rather than Wycombe. They acted in selfish interest and now expect Wycombe to be unselfish. |
This.
And the EFL should never have given Derby the rope with which to stretch out the process.
Both are at fault on that particular issue, but I agree with some above that there shouldn't be any favours to Derby here.
And also remember, the administrators have never provided proof of funding when asked by the EFL. That has been going on for about 4 months now. |  | | |
| Thoughts? on 11:15 - Jan 24 with 2292 views | Keno |
I wonder how he would feel if it was Salford rather than Wycombe or Boro? |  |
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| Thoughts? on 11:19 - Jan 24 with 2262 views | nodge_blue |
| Thoughts? on 11:12 - Jan 24 by ElderGrizzly |
This.
And the EFL should never have given Derby the rope with which to stretch out the process.
Both are at fault on that particular issue, but I agree with some above that there shouldn't be any favours to Derby here.
And also remember, the administrators have never provided proof of funding when asked by the EFL. That has been going on for about 4 months now. |
Derby have gamed the system every way they can in recent years. I have little sympathy for them. Especially as we were losing players like Tom Lawrence and Waghorn to them in our penny pinching drive that saw us eventually go down.
The club will survive in some form but I don't see why that should be in the championship. | |
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| Thoughts? on 11:23 - Jan 24 with 2201 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Thoughts? on 11:00 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
Because football shouldn't be a business at all. It is a sport. The root of most of these problems comes from the fact that it has become an arena for people to try making money. |
Problem being since the "invention" of professional football back in the late 1800's - it's always been a business and has had to be to generate income to pay the wages |  |
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| Thoughts? on 11:23 - Jan 24 with 2195 views | ArnieM |
What he’s talking about is unscrupulous owners essentially asset stripping a club, and then walking away when the going gets tough and creditors are calling in their dues. I agree with him this needs to stop. Unfortunately I think Derby will suffer the same fate as Bury. It’s sad for their fans , and I’d be mortified if it was us, ( it so easily could have been).
But the REAL, underlying cause, of all this financial strife with clubs is footballs pimp, Sky, as Clubs sell their souls in an effort to reach the promised land, which is an illusion anyway. The money washing around the top tier ( and ultimately that has trickled down to the Championship), has killed the game in this country. There is no longer a level playing field, and the game is morally and financially corrupt, and Clubs will go to the wall in their blinked efforts to fulfil these wild dreams.
Sky tv and their money ( YOUR sky contribution) is the real problem. |  |
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| Thoughts? on 11:26 - Jan 24 with 2156 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Thoughts? on 11:10 - Jan 24 by tractorboy1978 |
It's Mel Morris fault they are in this position. This is why the current model operating in football of being beholden to a wealthy individual or group of individuals looking to make money out of the sport is built on sand. You can see why Boro/Wycombe are reticent to 'help' when Morris is still trying to recoup money - I believe he still wants £20m for the stadium from any buyer. That he was allowed to buy it from the club in the first place is wrong. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:10]
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I get everyone saying it's Mel Morris' fault but a massive proportion of the blame has to lay at the door of the FA surely to God ?
If they hadn't let such dealings and wages be paid under "strict FFP rules" we'd never be in this position - or have I missed something ? | |
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| Thoughts? on 11:30 - Jan 24 with 2099 views | ghostofescobar |
| Thoughts? on 11:00 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
Because football shouldn't be a business at all. It is a sport. The root of most of these problems comes from the fact that it has become an arena for people to try making money. |
But football clubs all have to be run as businesses, even the lowest amateur clubs, so you can't avoid that: no bank will allow endless losses, even if it's a kids team. But your second point is spot on. Football has become way for (mainly) men to chase the golden egg, loading clubs up with debt and then walk away if it doesn't work. Too many dubious people allowed to strike too many dubious financial deals and the authorities weakly allow these things to happen, time and time again. |  |
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| Thoughts? on 11:32 - Jan 24 with 2061 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Thoughts? on 11:30 - Jan 24 by ghostofescobar |
But football clubs all have to be run as businesses, even the lowest amateur clubs, so you can't avoid that: no bank will allow endless losses, even if it's a kids team. But your second point is spot on. Football has become way for (mainly) men to chase the golden egg, loading clubs up with debt and then walk away if it doesn't work. Too many dubious people allowed to strike too many dubious financial deals and the authorities weakly allow these things to happen, time and time again. |
Burnley is the next one to keep an eye on.
Bought entirely by piling debt on a previously debt free club and likely to get relegated this season. | | | |
| Thoughts? on 11:36 - Jan 24 with 2016 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Thoughts? on 11:26 - Jan 24 by Metal_Hacker |
I get everyone saying it's Mel Morris' fault but a massive proportion of the blame has to lay at the door of the FA surely to God ?
If they hadn't let such dealings and wages be paid under "strict FFP rules" we'd never be in this position - or have I missed something ? |
Ultimately FFP isn't fit for purpose at Championship level, agreed. | | | |
| Thoughts? on 11:37 - Jan 24 with 2014 views | RegencyBlue |
It’s easy for me to say as it’s not my club but I genuinely think it’s necessary for a club like Derby, rather than one of the smaller ones, to fold to bring the rest of football to its senses regarding finance! |  | | |
| Thoughts? on 11:50 - Jan 24 with 1900 views | monty_radio |
| Thoughts? on 10:57 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
I think Derby have been hit with considerable consequences for their actions. They're skint and almost certain to be playing in League One next season.
I'm not dismissing out of hand Boro and Wycombe's claims of having suffered loss through Derby's misdemeanours, but they are also upon uncertain foundation, in that it was the EFL, not Derby, who were responsible for when the points deductions were applied (thus condemning Wycombe to relegation instead) and it is very subjective to assess that one club would definitely have finished above another if financial cheating had not occurred. Let alone when it's the play-offs and there was no guarantee of subsequently winning them (as Derby failed to do).
Also, if ever those clubs found themselves in trouble, they may need bridges they're currently burning. |
" it was the EFL, not Derby, who were responsible for when the points deductions were applied".
Absolutely! | |
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| Thoughts? on 11:59 - Jan 24 with 1816 views | NthQldITFC |
Cheating should be punished harshly imo, but there should be no laughing, rejoicing or celebrating the punishment.
Systematic cheating as it seems Derby have been doing ought to carry at least one automatic relegation, probably two, and a couple of years transfer embargo. Thing is that club then becomes too powerful for the division it has been relegated to, so you'd have to couple the punishment regime with meaningful salary caps and transfer limits, i.e. do a proper root and branch reform of the game. It could be the beautiful game again in this country if we drove a bit of the money-obsession out of it.
If the authorities just keep letting clubs off lightly, they just encourage other clubs to cheat, and the whole game suffers in perpetuity. |  |
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| Thoughts? on 13:31 - Jan 24 with 1470 views | Guthrum |
| Thoughts? on 11:30 - Jan 24 by ghostofescobar |
But football clubs all have to be run as businesses, even the lowest amateur clubs, so you can't avoid that: no bank will allow endless losses, even if it's a kids team. But your second point is spot on. Football has become way for (mainly) men to chase the golden egg, loading clubs up with debt and then walk away if it doesn't work. Too many dubious people allowed to strike too many dubious financial deals and the authorities weakly allow these things to happen, time and time again. |
I'd say it ought to be more like a charity, i.e. not-for-profit. As most amateur-level clubs are. They don't spend way beyond their means, load debt upon debt, would go rapidly bust if they tried.
It's the difference between running something properly, in a businesslike fashion (which is what I think you're saying) and running them as a business, aiming to make a profit for someone. Or as an investment. | |
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