| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people will†23:22 - Mar 1 with 3177 views | unstableblue |
… rise up against Putin
Not going to happen
Oligarchs got him in; but he now has near total control of the Kremlin and power
Russians have a near North Korean like media, the wider public are completely apathetic (bar a minority) to any public dissent; they are being fed a completely different view of Ukraine conflict, and social media and pop up sites are all shut down
So what is going to stop the conflict?? |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 23:26 - Mar 1 with 3123 views | factual_blue |
Russia not having any money left. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 23:42 - Mar 1 with 3088 views | Churchman |
The Russian military might. At a guess I’d say that was the only chance, but sadly, he’ll probably die in bed after a very long life with his boots off surrounded by those ordered to love him.
The oligarchs have made billions from his rule. They won’t want change. For them, a quick finish to the war and back to normal has to be their aim. |  | | |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 06:58 - Mar 2 with 2866 views | solomon |
Never underestimate the power of money and those who control it, Putin stopping this puts him in danger from equally dangerous and motivated individuals who care not for the cause of Ukrainians, only what’s good for business. |  | | |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 07:09 - Mar 2 with 2847 views | Coastalblue |
This is sadly looking likely to be long, drawn out and bloody. Unlike the 80's it's unlikely Russia can completely block all outside media, there's just too much of it in too many formats and it's not far from them.
Families will be learning that their son is not coming home, some sons will go home and relate what they have seen.
Putin can't bottle all of this up for ever, whether anybody can actually do anything to change it is a different matter but he may get more vulnerable. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 07:46 - Mar 2 with 2785 views | belgablue |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 23:26 - Mar 1 by factual_blue |
Russia not having any money left. |
Would help if they weren't getting billions everyday in energy and raw material exports. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 08:05 - Mar 2 with 2713 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The annexation of Ukraine will stop it - for a while.
All sanctions do is provide sanction- busting opportunities. Especially with Putin’s allies, the UK still providing the lifeline of laundered cash to finance his expansion plans |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 08:50 - Mar 2 with 2607 views | NthQldITFC |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 23:42 - Mar 1 by Churchman |
The Russian military might. At a guess I’d say that was the only chance, but sadly, he’ll probably die in bed after a very long life with his boots off surrounded by those ordered to love him.
The oligarchs have made billions from his rule. They won’t want change. For them, a quick finish to the war and back to normal has to be their aim. |
If only these individuals were able to realise that making billions is actually destructive to their own souls, and to those around them, then their reasons for supporting the enabler of their misery would evaporate just like that.
War can probably sometimes provide the shock that gives the blind egotist clear enough vision momentarily to change their path, but even when they do, somebody else is usually desperate to jump into their footsteps. There is always some hope. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 09:18 - Mar 2 with 2530 views | Churchman |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 08:50 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
If only these individuals were able to realise that making billions is actually destructive to their own souls, and to those around them, then their reasons for supporting the enabler of their misery would evaporate just like that.
War can probably sometimes provide the shock that gives the blind egotist clear enough vision momentarily to change their path, but even when they do, somebody else is usually desperate to jump into their footsteps. There is always some hope. |
Sadly it seems to be a trait that people that make boatloads of money always want more. Dreadful people many of whom appear to have no soul.
Interesting snippet on Abramovich on the Sky feed just now:
Swiss billionaire Hansjorg Wyss claims he has been offered the chance to buy Chelsea - following Abramovich's move to hand control of the club to charitable trustees over the weekend.
"Abramovich is trying to sell all his villas in England, he also wants to get rid of Chelsea quickly," Wyss told Swiss newspaper Blick.
"I and three other people received an offer on Tuesday to buy Chelsea from Abramovich. I have to wait four to five days now. Abramovich is currently asking far too much."
It comes as Labour MP Chris Bryant used parliamentary privilege to reveal that Abramovich is selling his UK home and another flat, telling the House of Commons the Russian billionaire is "terrified of being sanctioned.
So why has Abramovich not been sanctioned already? Why pick on a few others and not him? Who benefits by leaving him alone? The Ukrainian woman who went for Johnson yesterday is right about this. Mind you, I doubt she truly appreciated how much the government and others are up to their necks in dirty Russian money. | | | |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 09:21 - Mar 2 with 2506 views | hype313 |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 09:18 - Mar 2 by Churchman |
Sadly it seems to be a trait that people that make boatloads of money always want more. Dreadful people many of whom appear to have no soul.
Interesting snippet on Abramovich on the Sky feed just now:
Swiss billionaire Hansjorg Wyss claims he has been offered the chance to buy Chelsea - following Abramovich's move to hand control of the club to charitable trustees over the weekend.
"Abramovich is trying to sell all his villas in England, he also wants to get rid of Chelsea quickly," Wyss told Swiss newspaper Blick.
"I and three other people received an offer on Tuesday to buy Chelsea from Abramovich. I have to wait four to five days now. Abramovich is currently asking far too much."
It comes as Labour MP Chris Bryant used parliamentary privilege to reveal that Abramovich is selling his UK home and another flat, telling the House of Commons the Russian billionaire is "terrified of being sanctioned.
So why has Abramovich not been sanctioned already? Why pick on a few others and not him? Who benefits by leaving him alone? The Ukrainian woman who went for Johnson yesterday is right about this. Mind you, I doubt she truly appreciated how much the government and others are up to their necks in dirty Russian money. |
Gold Visa's, party funding, payments for a game of Tennis, the Tories are up to their necks in dirty Russian money which is why they have been like rabbits in headlights. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 09:33 - Mar 2 with 2453 views | Churchman |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 09:21 - Mar 2 by hype313 |
Gold Visa's, party funding, payments for a game of Tennis, the Tories are up to their necks in dirty Russian money which is why they have been like rabbits in headlights. |
I suspect they couldn’t care a less whether Russia swallows Ukraine or not, but just want it it over ASAP so they can keep a lid on what they are hiding and get back to ‘normal’. Promises made to Roman and co? Nothing would surprise me any more tbh. This likes of JRM and BJ would make a deal with the devil if it meant a few more dollars in the bank. | | | |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 09:51 - Mar 2 with 2400 views | BloomBlue |
Military action from other countries will eventually stop it. History is repeating, they tried to negotiate with Hitler, they tried to appease him when he occupied the rest of Czechoslovakia mainly to avoid another WW and what did he do he went and invaded Poland. We have negotiated with Putin, we've tried to appease him when he occupied Crimea and what is he doing, invading Ukraine. Also watch as he starts to execute anyone in Ukraine who doesn't agree with him, same as Hitler did in Poland
Putin like Hitler also isn't going to stop once he has taken Ukraine, Finland will probably be next as it's not fully in NATO, He'll warn NATO again and what does NATO do then?
Eventually Countries will have to fight back |  | | |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 10:29 - Mar 2 with 2333 views | BlueBadger |
'Whilst we've been talking about gender issues Russia have been terming' is a popular right wing myth I'm seeing right now.
Actually lads, you're the ones who've been in power most of the past decade and you've been happily looking away whilst being happy to take his money. I don't think it's the LGBTQ immunity that are the issue here. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 10:46 - Mar 2 with 2311 views | Darth_Koont |
The oligarchs have a foot in the West (and for some it’s also a foot out the door from Russia). So I think they’re at least a good source of potential pressure on Putin.
The most interesting group though is the young. A majority of the under 40s are against the war. They also have a foot in the West and will be seeing what we’re seeing.
Support for the war is high among those over 60 who lack the same world contact and experience – and frankly must be somewhat traumatised by what’s happened in their lifetime with an unhealthy dose of Stockholm syndrome thrown in. |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 10:56 - Mar 2 with 2262 views | Darth_Koont |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 10:46 - Mar 2 by Darth_Koont |
The oligarchs have a foot in the West (and for some it’s also a foot out the door from Russia). So I think they’re at least a good source of potential pressure on Putin.
The most interesting group though is the young. A majority of the under 40s are against the war. They also have a foot in the West and will be seeing what we’re seeing.
Support for the war is high among those over 60 who lack the same world contact and experience – and frankly must be somewhat traumatised by what’s happened in their lifetime with an unhealthy dose of Stockholm syndrome thrown in. |
To give some context, the Russian support for the war in Ukraine as it starts is about the same as American support for the Vietnam War when it ended.
I think the Russian anti-war protests and sentiment are our greatest hope. And we need to have solidarity with them against Putin rather than turn this into a nationalist issue (which is basically what Putin wants). | |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 10:57 - Mar 2 with 2250 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
The revolution in Kremlin and all his puppets and yes men gather together and say: 'enough is enough'.
We may have to wait a bit for that though. At least until Russian economy gets struck hard. |  | | |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 11:06 - Mar 2 with 2193 views | J2BLUE |
Think you're underestimating the Russians' ability to find this stuff out for themselves. Of course some people will buy the propaganda 100% but I don't think it's as hopeless as you say.
So what is going to stop the conflict??
Is this hinting at support for NATO military intervention? |  |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 11:26 - Mar 2 with 2146 views | Churchman |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 10:56 - Mar 2 by Darth_Koont |
To give some context, the Russian support for the war in Ukraine as it starts is about the same as American support for the Vietnam War when it ended.
I think the Russian anti-war protests and sentiment are our greatest hope. And we need to have solidarity with them against Putin rather than turn this into a nationalist issue (which is basically what Putin wants). |
For me, that is more hope than expectation. It takes extraordinary courage to speak out in mother Russia against its loveable leader. Almost guarantees work far away or an early death. | | | |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people will� on 11:34 - Mar 2 with 2122 views | Darth_Koont |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 11:26 - Mar 2 by Churchman |
For me, that is more hope than expectation. It takes extraordinary courage to speak out in mother Russia against its loveable leader. Almost guarantees work far away or an early death. |
Absolutely. But there’s a certain anonymity as part of the masses and as a statistic in polling.
In the past, Putin has thrown his weight around and it’s bolstered support for re-election. This time I think he could be persuaded against continuing if he sees it’s jeopardising his 2024 chances.
Edit: But you’re right, I don’t expect that to play out like that necessarily. The real concern is that this is a big part of Putin’s legacy building and re-election isn’t even as important as this. But we still need what we can to chip away at his domestic support if that’s the case. [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 11:37]
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 12:06 - Mar 2 with 2033 views | hype313 |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people will� on 11:34 - Mar 2 by Darth_Koont |
Absolutely. But there’s a certain anonymity as part of the masses and as a statistic in polling.
In the past, Putin has thrown his weight around and it’s bolstered support for re-election. This time I think he could be persuaded against continuing if he sees it’s jeopardising his 2024 chances.
Edit: But you’re right, I don’t expect that to play out like that necessarily. The real concern is that this is a big part of Putin’s legacy building and re-election isn’t even as important as this. But we still need what we can to chip away at his domestic support if that’s the case. [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 11:37]
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I think being bogged down in a war with Ukraine resembling Afghanistan in the 80's for them might be his undoing.
Also, the under 40's in Russia are all versed with using VPN's, so state propaganda isn't as forceful as it once was.
We can only hope. | |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 12:14 - Mar 2 with 1985 views | PhilTWTD |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 12:06 - Mar 2 by hype313 |
I think being bogged down in a war with Ukraine resembling Afghanistan in the 80's for them might be his undoing.
Also, the under 40's in Russia are all versed with using VPN's, so state propaganda isn't as forceful as it once was.
We can only hope. |
Indeed, hopefully there's a concerted response to Navalny's calls for continuing protests.
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 12:22 - Mar 2 with 1922 views | hype313 |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 12:14 - Mar 2 by PhilTWTD |
Indeed, hopefully there's a concerted response to Navalny's calls for continuing protests.
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That's a brilliant thread.
Can't believe we are where we are, all because one man decides he want to swallow up another country.
Surely, surely there must be some sane people in the Kremlin watching with aghast ready to remove him, if not then we are in for a torrid few years, affecting all of us. | |
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| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people will� on 13:25 - Mar 2 with 1827 views | Churchman |
| Couple of myth busters: the oligarchs will oust Putin; the Russian people willï¿ on 12:06 - Mar 2 by hype313 |
I think being bogged down in a war with Ukraine resembling Afghanistan in the 80's for them might be his undoing.
Also, the under 40's in Russia are all versed with using VPN's, so state propaganda isn't as forceful as it once was.
We can only hope. |
I was reading something the other day about how the Nazis controlled the news. They had total control on output, sold cheap state radios and banned the people listening to other stations.
It didn’t stop people doing it and one clever thing the BBC and others did was issue lists of soldiers etc captured by name. Since to say you’d heard Hans was alive meant imprisonment, people ‘had dreams that Hans was alive and in captivity’. There’s nothing the Nazis could do about it.
If people heard about the outside world in 39-45, I don’t see how Putin can prevent it in the 21st social media driven century. While people will (and obviously do) believe their leaders’ propaganda it’s harder to hide the truth than ever it was and it wasn’t easy 80 years ago. [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 13:26]
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