| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight 23:34 - Feb 28 with 6694 views | unstableblue |
In short what does Europe and the West do when the full scale Russian artillery circles and closes fully on the major cities by Weds, and potentially starts shelling with hundreds of civilian deaths if not more? And it gets set in?
|  |
| |  |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 05:25 - Mar 1 with 5487 views | Kropotkin123 |
Already there, we should be protecting Ukraine with our military. |  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 05:49 - Mar 1 with 5465 views | solomon |
Well it’s gong to be a long tough battle for the Ukrainians with a high level of casualties. But as others have said this won’t be easy for the Russians either as they will be incurring losses in urbanised areas which are notoriously difficult to fight in. All we can realistically do is fund the resistance with weapons and advisors but this obviously has to be done with the west’s clandestine services (who lets not forget are very good at this) the sanctions will continue to hit Russia and its civilians hard and in some ways us too, it’s a painful sacrifice for many in this country too. Which ever way you cut it this whole thing looks like the end of Putin, wouldn’t be at all surprised if he is quietly liquidated by others who have more to lose. |  | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 06:21 - Mar 1 with 5411 views | Churchman |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 05:49 - Mar 1 by solomon |
Well it’s gong to be a long tough battle for the Ukrainians with a high level of casualties. But as others have said this won’t be easy for the Russians either as they will be incurring losses in urbanised areas which are notoriously difficult to fight in. All we can realistically do is fund the resistance with weapons and advisors but this obviously has to be done with the west’s clandestine services (who lets not forget are very good at this) the sanctions will continue to hit Russia and its civilians hard and in some ways us too, it’s a painful sacrifice for many in this country too. Which ever way you cut it this whole thing looks like the end of Putin, wouldn’t be at all surprised if he is quietly liquidated by others who have more to lose. |
I am sure Putin must have hoped Ukraine would have fallen into Russia’s loving arms by now to avoid having to take the biggest cities. That form of fighting is hideous. Pointedly for the Russians, the battle of Berlin amongst others showed that. As you say let’s hope the Russians decide Putin is getting out of hand and remove him. |  | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 06:55 - Mar 1 with 5356 views | pennblue |
The whole situation has been planned by Putin, he has already got his alliance in place too, with China (and India) falling into line. The question is what will those countries do (China in particular) when push comes to shove.
I would hope, that China does not decide to go along with Russia and that Russia gets isolated and therefore will self implode with enough force and pressure applied.
So for me, our diplomats should be all over the Chinese now, and do everything we can to instigate Putin's liquidation, as the Russian people are no different to any of us, they want to live a peaceful life and have access to all the same modern day opportunities this global connected world has to offer. |  |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 07:10 - Mar 1 with 5286 views | solomon |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 06:55 - Mar 1 by pennblue |
The whole situation has been planned by Putin, he has already got his alliance in place too, with China (and India) falling into line. The question is what will those countries do (China in particular) when push comes to shove.
I would hope, that China does not decide to go along with Russia and that Russia gets isolated and therefore will self implode with enough force and pressure applied.
So for me, our diplomats should be all over the Chinese now, and do everything we can to instigate Putin's liquidation, as the Russian people are no different to any of us, they want to live a peaceful life and have access to all the same modern day opportunities this global connected world has to offer. |
Cannot see China playing along with this, one thing matters to the Chinese more than anything, world trade, Putin is getting in the way of that hence why I think he’s marked man who’s actions are upsetting things that need to be left alone. | | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 07:58 - Mar 1 with 5134 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 07:10 - Mar 1 by solomon |
Cannot see China playing along with this, one thing matters to the Chinese more than anything, world trade, Putin is getting in the way of that hence why I think he’s marked man who’s actions are upsetting things that need to be left alone. |
100%
China is basically the world supermarket. If Russian style sanctions were put on China it would collapse - quickly followed by the rest of the world as it happens. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 7:59]
|  |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 08:32 - Mar 1 with 5010 views | itfcjoe |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 07:58 - Mar 1 by Lord_Lucan |
100%
China is basically the world supermarket. If Russian style sanctions were put on China it would collapse - quickly followed by the rest of the world as it happens. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 7:59]
|
Russia's economy is so small, not much bigger than Spain and less than half the size of Germany - so there isn't even really the carrot they can dangle in front of China in that regard and that is before you even look at GDP per Capita which is at a developing country level |  |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:13 - Mar 1 with 4874 views | Guthrum |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 06:55 - Mar 1 by pennblue |
The whole situation has been planned by Putin, he has already got his alliance in place too, with China (and India) falling into line. The question is what will those countries do (China in particular) when push comes to shove.
I would hope, that China does not decide to go along with Russia and that Russia gets isolated and therefore will self implode with enough force and pressure applied.
So for me, our diplomats should be all over the Chinese now, and do everything we can to instigate Putin's liquidation, as the Russian people are no different to any of us, they want to live a peaceful life and have access to all the same modern day opportunities this global connected world has to offer. |
We should be wary of Russia 'imploding', as an existential crisis is when things could get really silly.
There should always be a "way out" for Putin. It's an ancient military axiom that one should always leave a line of retreat for enemy troops, then they are likely to take it, whereas surrounded they will fight like hell, having nowhere to go. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:23 - Mar 1 with 4824 views | BondiBlue |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:13 - Mar 1 by Guthrum |
We should be wary of Russia 'imploding', as an existential crisis is when things could get really silly.
There should always be a "way out" for Putin. It's an ancient military axiom that one should always leave a line of retreat for enemy troops, then they are likely to take it, whereas surrounded they will fight like hell, having nowhere to go. |
And to think it was trump we were worried about having a nuclear button. | |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:24 - Mar 1 with 4822 views | Guthrum |
Think it's going to take a lot longer than 'by Wednesday' for that 40-mile traffic jam to sort itself out and deploy. Especially if the Ukrainians can target it with their remaining air assets or get forces onto its flanks. High likelihood of utter chaos.
After all, the main reason Market Garden in WWII (the Arnhem offensive) failed was because of the attempt to advance down a single road. Also the Battle of Suomussalmi in the Winter War, when Finnish troops repeatedly cut the roads being used by the Soviets. Failure to interdict the remaining road into Verdun was key to German failure there. | |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:25 - Mar 1 with 4811 views | Guthrum |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 08:32 - Mar 1 by itfcjoe |
Russia's economy is so small, not much bigger than Spain and less than half the size of Germany - so there isn't even really the carrot they can dangle in front of China in that regard and that is before you even look at GDP per Capita which is at a developing country level |
However, they have a lot of oil, gas and coal which can be sold to hungry, growing economies. That is their economic leverage. | |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:50 - Mar 1 with 4701 views | BondiBlue |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:24 - Mar 1 by Guthrum |
Think it's going to take a lot longer than 'by Wednesday' for that 40-mile traffic jam to sort itself out and deploy. Especially if the Ukrainians can target it with their remaining air assets or get forces onto its flanks. High likelihood of utter chaos.
After all, the main reason Market Garden in WWII (the Arnhem offensive) failed was because of the attempt to advance down a single road. Also the Battle of Suomussalmi in the Winter War, when Finnish troops repeatedly cut the roads being used by the Soviets. Failure to interdict the remaining road into Verdun was key to German failure there. |
Looking at those photos of tanks queuing up for 40 miles makes me wonder if it would be worth throwing a couple of cruise missiles at them while we've got the chance. | |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:59 - Mar 1 with 4673 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 09:13 - Mar 1 by Guthrum |
We should be wary of Russia 'imploding', as an existential crisis is when things could get really silly.
There should always be a "way out" for Putin. It's an ancient military axiom that one should always leave a line of retreat for enemy troops, then they are likely to take it, whereas surrounded they will fight like hell, having nowhere to go. |
Very much, circle the wagons and its death or glory ans if its the former then you are damn sure I'm taking as many of you with me.
Give me a way out and maye the arms get laid down. |  |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:38 - Mar 1 with 4524 views | gordon |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 05:49 - Mar 1 by solomon |
Well it’s gong to be a long tough battle for the Ukrainians with a high level of casualties. But as others have said this won’t be easy for the Russians either as they will be incurring losses in urbanised areas which are notoriously difficult to fight in. All we can realistically do is fund the resistance with weapons and advisors but this obviously has to be done with the west’s clandestine services (who lets not forget are very good at this) the sanctions will continue to hit Russia and its civilians hard and in some ways us too, it’s a painful sacrifice for many in this country too. Which ever way you cut it this whole thing looks like the end of Putin, wouldn’t be at all surprised if he is quietly liquidated by others who have more to lose. |
If they're willing to kill civilians (which they have already shown that they are), then they don't need to enter the cities - they can just shell and bomb indiscriminately and cut-off supplies, while allowing unarmed civilians to leave. Lots of people were initially taking about how hard it will be for Russia to hold the large cities against insurgents, but they will also be aware of this now and be adapting their strategy.
The next few days, as that ex-general says, will be a completely different ball-game to what we've seen so far, and it will be very, very difficult for NATO/the west etc. to stand-by and watch it happen. |  | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:40 - Mar 1 with 4489 views | chicoazul |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 05:25 - Mar 1 by Kropotkin123 |
Already there, we should be protecting Ukraine with our military. |
And have a full scale land sea and air war with Russia? No thanks very much. |  |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:52 - Mar 1 with 4436 views | gordon |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:40 - Mar 1 by chicoazul |
And have a full scale land sea and air war with Russia? No thanks very much. |
The Russian agents in UK are saying the same:
| | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 12:13 - Mar 1 with 4370 views | giant_stow |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:52 - Mar 1 by gordon |
The Russian agents in UK are saying the same:
|
Are you suggesting that being against a no fly zone is a pro-Russian position? |  |
| |
| And when I hear this… maybe we should go in?? on 12:25 - Mar 1 with 4311 views | unstableblue |
| |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 12:26 - Mar 1 with 4304 views | gordon |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 12:13 - Mar 1 by giant_stow |
Are you suggesting that being against a no fly zone is a pro-Russian position? |
Lots of people will argue against NFZ for genuine reasons, but my view (and of course I'm not any kind of expert) is that it's inevitable that conflict between NATO troops and Russia will take place - the sooner it happens more Ukrainian lives will be saved, because NATO troops would make v short work of the Russian columns that are about to murder thousands of civilians in Ukrainian cities.
The chances of nuclear war are very small but should be taken seriously, but the chance does not rescind because of NATO inaction, and does not increase because of NATO action - that is precisely what Putin wants us to think - the nuclear threat is because Putin is petrified of being humiliated if the west intervened.
The other point that's worth being aware of is that United Kingdom and the United States are already bound by int. treaty to intervene to preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine by the Budapest Agreement. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 12:27]
| | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 12:50 - Mar 1 with 4217 views | giant_stow |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 12:26 - Mar 1 by gordon |
Lots of people will argue against NFZ for genuine reasons, but my view (and of course I'm not any kind of expert) is that it's inevitable that conflict between NATO troops and Russia will take place - the sooner it happens more Ukrainian lives will be saved, because NATO troops would make v short work of the Russian columns that are about to murder thousands of civilians in Ukrainian cities.
The chances of nuclear war are very small but should be taken seriously, but the chance does not rescind because of NATO inaction, and does not increase because of NATO action - that is precisely what Putin wants us to think - the nuclear threat is because Putin is petrified of being humiliated if the west intervened.
The other point that's worth being aware of is that United Kingdom and the United States are already bound by int. treaty to intervene to preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine by the Budapest Agreement. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 12:27]
|
Well argued and thought provoking (I'll have to go and Google the Budapest agreement too).
My main concern is that if we humiliate Putin by destroying his invasion forces from the air, we make it more likely that he'll go nuclear as a result. And then we're not just talking about 1000s of Ukraine deaths, but potentially millions. | |
| |
| And when I hear this… maybe we should go in?? on 12:53 - Mar 1 with 4204 views | Swansea_Blue |
| And when I hear this… maybe we should go in?? on 12:25 - Mar 1 by unstableblue |
|
Wow. It does feel a bit like a peep show doesn’t it. We’re tippy tapping around a dictator making a land grab by wanting to be seen to be helping but also not wanting to be seen to be actively trying to stop him at the same time. The international politics and diplomacy angle throws up a very strange set of circumstances. We openly send weapons but on the other hand don’t want to be seen firing them. We openly encourage citizens to fight against Russia but don’t want to be seen to order our trained forces to fight.
It all seems a bit perverse when I suspect we could put a stop to the invasion if we wanted. But I can certainly see why we wouldn’t want to risk a nuclear war. Although I doubt Putin has such reservations. And then what do we do if he pushes the button? If our nuclear weapons don’t work as a deterrent and we aren’t prepared to use them, why have we been wasting money on them?
What a mess. |  |
| |
| And when I hear this… maybe we should go in?? on 13:12 - Mar 1 with 4146 views | gordon |
| And when I hear this… maybe we should go in?? on 12:53 - Mar 1 by Swansea_Blue |
Wow. It does feel a bit like a peep show doesn’t it. We’re tippy tapping around a dictator making a land grab by wanting to be seen to be helping but also not wanting to be seen to be actively trying to stop him at the same time. The international politics and diplomacy angle throws up a very strange set of circumstances. We openly send weapons but on the other hand don’t want to be seen firing them. We openly encourage citizens to fight against Russia but don’t want to be seen to order our trained forces to fight.
It all seems a bit perverse when I suspect we could put a stop to the invasion if we wanted. But I can certainly see why we wouldn’t want to risk a nuclear war. Although I doubt Putin has such reservations. And then what do we do if he pushes the button? If our nuclear weapons don’t work as a deterrent and we aren’t prepared to use them, why have we been wasting money on them?
What a mess. |
Yes - we have a legal and moral obligation to defend The Ukraine against what is likely to be considered a genocide, and we're not doing so because we're scared of a mad dictator holding us to ransom with nuclear weapons.
Will that be emboldening Putin, or making him less likely to use force in future, is the question people should be asking. | | | |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 14:14 - Mar 1 with 4003 views | jeera |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:40 - Mar 1 by chicoazul |
And have a full scale land sea and air war with Russia? No thanks very much. |
Russia clearly don't fancy themselves against NATO in a full scale land, sea and air war, hence the threats of nuclear weapons. |  |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 14:17 - Mar 1 with 3987 views | jeera |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 05:49 - Mar 1 by solomon |
Well it’s gong to be a long tough battle for the Ukrainians with a high level of casualties. But as others have said this won’t be easy for the Russians either as they will be incurring losses in urbanised areas which are notoriously difficult to fight in. All we can realistically do is fund the resistance with weapons and advisors but this obviously has to be done with the west’s clandestine services (who lets not forget are very good at this) the sanctions will continue to hit Russia and its civilians hard and in some ways us too, it’s a painful sacrifice for many in this country too. Which ever way you cut it this whole thing looks like the end of Putin, wouldn’t be at all surprised if he is quietly liquidated by others who have more to lose. |
"this won’t be easy for the Russians either as they will be incurring losses in urbanised areas which are notoriously difficult to fight i2.
This is true but of course their losses are armed soldiers whereas we have now seen Ukrainian children who have been, and are still being, murdered in the streets and inside their own homes. | |
| |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 16:04 - Mar 1 with 3834 views | chicoazul |
| Hmmmmm…. Didn’t like that analysis on Newsnight on 11:52 - Mar 1 by gordon |
The Russian agents in UK are saying the same:
|
Are you seriously suggesting that being against global thermonuclear war is the same thing as being pro-Putin. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
