| And today’s scapegoat 07:42 - Jun 24 with 2601 views | GlasgowBlue |
Oliver Dowden.
Johnson is like Putin. Firing his generals to excuse his own malfeasance. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:47 - Jun 24 with 1434 views | Steve_M |
Although Dowden's warm embrace of the most divisive culture war tropes purely for political gain is enough reason to have zero sympathy for him this morning. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:49 - Jun 24 with 1413 views | GavTWTD |
Has Raab resigned too? Was due to be backup to Dowden to discuss the two defeats this morning on the BBC but a Tory spokesperson said (paraphrasing) that definitely wouldn't happen and that it's an ever changing situation.
Probably can't resign as Boris is out of the country but maybe that's his intention? |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:50 - Jun 24 with 1395 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Hardly Boris' fault; he got Brexit done and got us through Covid. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:54 - Jun 24 with 1363 views | itfcjoe |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:50 - Jun 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Hardly Boris' fault; he got Brexit done and got us through Covid. |
Don’t forget Taking Back Control |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:56 - Jun 24 with 1351 views | Whos_blue |
I'm not generally one for wild conspiracy theories, but I can't help but wonder if the timing of the recent confidence vote was rushed along a little by Johnson's cronies in a calculated way, to limit the damage of an even worse outcome following the expected loses in the by elections.
Dowden is still an odious individual regardless of his resignation. For me it's just one less odious tory supporting this sham of a regime. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:57 - Jun 24 with 1345 views | Dubtractor |
I thought the line in Dowden's letter that more or less said 'someone needs to take responsibility, and as it doesn't look like that is happening I'll resign'.
As Steve rightly says, Dowden has been one of the very worst of this current bunch, embracing and promoting culture ware nonsense, so I'll not shed a tear on this occasion. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 07:59 - Jun 24 with 1336 views | tractordownsouth |
It's obviously Johnson's fault in the main, but 2 safe seat losses in 6 months is an abysmal record on Dowden's part. Hugely unimpressive media performer as well. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:04 - Jun 24 with 1267 views | unbelievablue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:56 - Jun 24 by Whos_blue |
I'm not generally one for wild conspiracy theories, but I can't help but wonder if the timing of the recent confidence vote was rushed along a little by Johnson's cronies in a calculated way, to limit the damage of an even worse outcome following the expected loses in the by elections.
Dowden is still an odious individual regardless of his resignation. For me it's just one less odious tory supporting this sham of a regime. |
Just posted similar on the other thread. Once it was inevitable it would make a lot of sense for them to rush it through. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:05 - Jun 24 with 1220 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:56 - Jun 24 by Whos_blue |
I'm not generally one for wild conspiracy theories, but I can't help but wonder if the timing of the recent confidence vote was rushed along a little by Johnson's cronies in a calculated way, to limit the damage of an even worse outcome following the expected loses in the by elections.
Dowden is still an odious individual regardless of his resignation. For me it's just one less odious tory supporting this sham of a regime. |
Called it at the time
It is, of course, a vote of confidence…. by GlasgowBlue 6 Jun 2022 8:47This stinks the same as when Johnson’s supporters voted for Jeremy Hunt in order to Keep Gove out of the final two.
Johnson probably put in a letter himself in order to get a vote before Wakefield.
I also said that it would be better if the threshold wasn’t met until today but there were quite a few in here that wanted Christmas to come early. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:08 - Jun 24 with 1184 views | gtsb1966 |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:05 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Called it at the time
It is, of course, a vote of confidence…. by GlasgowBlue 6 Jun 2022 8:47This stinks the same as when Johnson’s supporters voted for Jeremy Hunt in order to Keep Gove out of the final two.
Johnson probably put in a letter himself in order to get a vote before Wakefield.
I also said that it would be better if the threshold wasn’t met until today but there were quite a few in here that wanted Christmas to come early. |
It still could come early if/when the 1922 committee change the rules. |  | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:10 - Jun 24 with 1174 views | Guthrum |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:49 - Jun 24 by GavTWTD |
Has Raab resigned too? Was due to be backup to Dowden to discuss the two defeats this morning on the BBC but a Tory spokesperson said (paraphrasing) that definitely wouldn't happen and that it's an ever changing situation.
Probably can't resign as Boris is out of the country but maybe that's his intention? |
More likely too busy sharpening knives. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:13 - Jun 24 with 1154 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:05 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Called it at the time
It is, of course, a vote of confidence…. by GlasgowBlue 6 Jun 2022 8:47This stinks the same as when Johnson’s supporters voted for Jeremy Hunt in order to Keep Gove out of the final two.
Johnson probably put in a letter himself in order to get a vote before Wakefield.
I also said that it would be better if the threshold wasn’t met until today but there were quite a few in here that wanted Christmas to come early. |
You have no evidence that a vote after the elections would have turned out any different. It was the right thing to do to make the move as soon as possible. Many are simply unwilling to continue turning the other cheek for the sake of politicking. If the Tories want him out then the 1922 committee will simply change the rules which is within their remit which totally undermines your point.
Many didn't want Christmas to come early, many wanted people to stop playing politics, I see that's not going to happen any time soon though.
Think we will have to disagree on this one.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:19]
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:14 - Jun 24 with 1142 views | ZXBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:13 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
You have no evidence that a vote after the elections would have turned out any different. It was the right thing to do to make the move as soon as possible. Many are simply unwilling to continue turning the other cheek for the sake of politicking. If the Tories want him out then the 1922 committee will simply change the rules which is within their remit which totally undermines your point.
Many didn't want Christmas to come early, many wanted people to stop playing politics, I see that's not going to happen any time soon though.
Think we will have to disagree on this one.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:19]
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Very few tories voted against Boris for reasons of integrity, rather than elecotral self interest imo. Some did, but not many. |  | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:16 - Jun 24 with 1121 views | Guthrum |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:08 - Jun 24 by gtsb1966 |
It still could come early if/when the 1922 committee change the rules. |
1922 is a strictly back-bench committee. Quite a few of those must now be fearing for their seats and are, by definition, not beholden to Johnson's direct patronage. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:17 - Jun 24 with 1111 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:14 - Jun 24 by ZXBlue |
Very few tories voted against Boris for reasons of integrity, rather than elecotral self interest imo. Some did, but not many. |
I've not referenced the reasons for Tories in my post - you may need to go read the thread that GB linked to for the proper context with regards to politicking.
You are of course correct, they voted to try and save their own skins and thus that is why it's likely the 1922 committee will simply change the rules at some point to get rid of him. It's a very Tory thing to do and thus the obvious course of action. I doubt many new MPs are going to be comfortable seeing large majorities overturned in this way.
Raab on Radio 4 at the moment is living in an alternative reality. Utterly deluded stuff.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:19]
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:19 - Jun 24 with 1085 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:13 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
You have no evidence that a vote after the elections would have turned out any different. It was the right thing to do to make the move as soon as possible. Many are simply unwilling to continue turning the other cheek for the sake of politicking. If the Tories want him out then the 1922 committee will simply change the rules which is within their remit which totally undermines your point.
Many didn't want Christmas to come early, many wanted people to stop playing politics, I see that's not going to happen any time soon though.
Think we will have to disagree on this one.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:19]
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You’re right. I don’t have any evidence that a vote after these two disastrous results would have made any difference in a confidence vote.
Just as I have no evidence that a football manager has more chance of losing their job after a disastrous run of results rather than a couple of defeats with the odd win in the middle. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:22 - Jun 24 with 1059 views | Churchman |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:57 - Jun 24 by Dubtractor |
I thought the line in Dowden's letter that more or less said 'someone needs to take responsibility, and as it doesn't look like that is happening I'll resign'.
As Steve rightly says, Dowden has been one of the very worst of this current bunch, embracing and promoting culture ware nonsense, so I'll not shed a tear on this occasion. |
Dowden is a real twerp. Imagine having that as your MP. Mind you, my MP is probably no better. She’ll be one of the few survivors of the rout to come. A bowl of vomit with a blue rosette would get in where I live.
His letter was interesting in that it read more like the ship is sinking, it’s somebody’s fault but not mine so I’m heading for a lifeboat. [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:26]
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:23 - Jun 24 with 1045 views | unbelievablue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:13 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
You have no evidence that a vote after the elections would have turned out any different. It was the right thing to do to make the move as soon as possible. Many are simply unwilling to continue turning the other cheek for the sake of politicking. If the Tories want him out then the 1922 committee will simply change the rules which is within their remit which totally undermines your point.
Many didn't want Christmas to come early, many wanted people to stop playing politics, I see that's not going to happen any time soon though.
Think we will have to disagree on this one.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:19]
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I would hazard a guess that it would be harder for many Tory MPs to continue to back Boris today. I don't think it'd be enough to oust him, but I'd wager more would have voted no confidence. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:23 - Jun 24 with 1045 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:19 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re right. I don’t have any evidence that a vote after these two disastrous results would have made any difference in a confidence vote.
Just as I have no evidence that a football manager has more chance of losing their job after a disastrous run of results rather than a couple of defeats with the odd win in the middle. |
Sorry GB but that's a logical fallacy (a false equivalence to be precise).
The two situations are completely different, for instance a football manager is more frequently tested in such competitions whilst a PM is only infrequently tested so the consequences of the results from one scenario are not linearly applicable to the other scenario.
None of it matters anyway, the Tories can get him out anytime they want and if they don't then that would seem to indicate that holding the vote later would have made no difference as they aren't that bothered. If they do get him out then all is well.
SB | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:37 - Jun 24 with 976 views | Churchman |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:17 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
I've not referenced the reasons for Tories in my post - you may need to go read the thread that GB linked to for the proper context with regards to politicking.
You are of course correct, they voted to try and save their own skins and thus that is why it's likely the 1922 committee will simply change the rules at some point to get rid of him. It's a very Tory thing to do and thus the obvious course of action. I doubt many new MPs are going to be comfortable seeing large majorities overturned in this way.
Raab on Radio 4 at the moment is living in an alternative reality. Utterly deluded stuff.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 8:19]
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Raab is a pleasant bloke and intelligent. The trouble is that despite an academic thumbs up, he’s a useless idiot.
After his weak, inept fumblings as DExEU Minister in 2018, I’m amazed he wasn’t shovelled permanently to the back benches. I can only assume he got the beers in for the No10 p1ss ups or something. | | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:41 - Jun 24 with 965 views | BlueBadger |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:37 - Jun 24 by Churchman |
Raab is a pleasant bloke and intelligent. The trouble is that despite an academic thumbs up, he’s a useless idiot.
After his weak, inept fumblings as DExEU Minister in 2018, I’m amazed he wasn’t shovelled permanently to the back benches. I can only assume he got the beers in for the No10 p1ss ups or something. |
I'd be interested to see your evidence for your first sentence. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:43 - Jun 24 with 959 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:23 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
Sorry GB but that's a logical fallacy (a false equivalence to be precise).
The two situations are completely different, for instance a football manager is more frequently tested in such competitions whilst a PM is only infrequently tested so the consequences of the results from one scenario are not linearly applicable to the other scenario.
None of it matters anyway, the Tories can get him out anytime they want and if they don't then that would seem to indicate that holding the vote later would have made no difference as they aren't that bothered. If they do get him out then all is well.
SB |
I don’t believe there is a serious political commentator in the media that is not agreeing with my assessment.
Evidence or not. Johnson is in a far weaker position that he was at the beginning of the month. The two results will have had MP’s getting very worried about their own seats in a way that they weren’t when the VOC took place.
As somebody who does enjoy the political games, it’s my belief that he would have list if the vote took place today. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:46 - Jun 24 with 949 views | ElderGrizzly |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:49 - Jun 24 by GavTWTD |
Has Raab resigned too? Was due to be backup to Dowden to discuss the two defeats this morning on the BBC but a Tory spokesperson said (paraphrasing) that definitely wouldn't happen and that it's an ever changing situation.
Probably can't resign as Boris is out of the country but maybe that's his intention? |
Raab is just a spineless liability. I assume that is why he isn’t on this morning |  | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:47 - Jun 24 with 942 views | tractordownsouth |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:41 - Jun 24 by BlueBadger |
I'd be interested to see your evidence for your first sentence. |
(Citation needed) | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:49 - Jun 24 with 923 views | ElderGrizzly |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:43 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I don’t believe there is a serious political commentator in the media that is not agreeing with my assessment.
Evidence or not. Johnson is in a far weaker position that he was at the beginning of the month. The two results will have had MP’s getting very worried about their own seats in a way that they weren’t when the VOC took place.
As somebody who does enjoy the political games, it’s my belief that he would have list if the vote took place today. |
It won’t work this way, but if seats similar to Tiverton or Wakefield had a similar vote %, then Tories would be a party with 72 seats.
That figure is apparently doing the rounds on Tory MP whatsapp this morning | | | |
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