| And today’s scapegoat 07:42 - Jun 24 with 2599 views | GlasgowBlue |
Oliver Dowden.
Johnson is like Putin. Firing his generals to excuse his own malfeasance. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 08:58 - Jun 24 with 856 views | pointofblue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:46 - Jun 24 by ElderGrizzly |
Raab is just a spineless liability. I assume that is why he isn’t on this morning |
They’ve found a Johnson supporter who isn’t to do the interviews? |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 09:00 - Jun 24 with 854 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:49 - Jun 24 by ElderGrizzly |
It won’t work this way, but if seats similar to Tiverton or Wakefield had a similar vote %, then Tories would be a party with 72 seats.
That figure is apparently doing the rounds on Tory MP whatsapp this morning |
Stoke is coming at this from his position that the original 54 letter and the VOC came at the right time, even that it should have happened sooner, because it was the right thing to do. Nothing wrong with that but it was naive. But naive for the right reasons. Stockie is appalled that Johnson is PM.
Skokie doesn’t like political shenanigans. Again, nothing wrong with that.
I’m coming at this in the world we live in. Not the world we want to live in. I want Johnson gone, but looked at when the optimum time to knife him would be. And that was always on the back of two disastrous by-election defeats rather than before. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 09:01 - Jun 24 with 851 views | Mookamoo |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:57 - Jun 24 by Dubtractor |
I thought the line in Dowden's letter that more or less said 'someone needs to take responsibility, and as it doesn't look like that is happening I'll resign'.
As Steve rightly says, Dowden has been one of the very worst of this current bunch, embracing and promoting culture ware nonsense, so I'll not shed a tear on this occasion. |
Pretty sure Dowden was one of the front bench doing the press in support of Johnson and his vote of no confidence.
Now he wants to take responsibility? |  | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 09:20 - Jun 24 with 808 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:43 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I don’t believe there is a serious political commentator in the media that is not agreeing with my assessment.
Evidence or not. Johnson is in a far weaker position that he was at the beginning of the month. The two results will have had MP’s getting very worried about their own seats in a way that they weren’t when the VOC took place.
As somebody who does enjoy the political games, it’s my belief that he would have list if the vote took place today. |
"I don’t believe there is a serious political commentator in the media that is not agreeing with my assessment."
They haven't had a great track record these last few years.
"Evidence or not. Johnson is in a far weaker position that he was at the beginning of the month. The two results will have had MP’s getting very worried about their own seats in a way that they weren’t when the VOC took place."
Many already expected this result at that time, any who didn't were incredibly naive. One nameless government minister has told the BBC this morning:
"Others are more optimistic, with one saying these results were "priced in."
"As somebody who does enjoy the political games, it’s my belief that he would have list if the vote took place today."
Maybe he would lose today but it was more principled to try and remove someone immediately who is providing continual damage to the country. If the Tories want him gone then he will be gone, the fact there aren't hundreds of Tories making statements today might indicate he wouldn't have lost today. Either way, the 1922 committee can change the rules at any time and have a vote so I still think it was the right thing to do to vote previously.
We both want Boris gone, I'm just not willing to let him limp along - there was one poster who wanted him to stay for 2 years just to increase Labours chances which I think is pretty appalling.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 9:36]
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| And today’s scapegoat on 09:21 - Jun 24 with 811 views | Pinewoodblue |
Given time the Tories will convince themselves that the by election result was to be expected.
They will find crumbs of comfort. In Tiverton the Labour vote collapsed come the next general election enough Labour voters will return to the fold to split the anti-Tory vote and let them back in. In Wakefield the turnout was below 40% so not representative of what might happen at a General Election. Tory voters who abstained will support the party at GE as not to do so would see a
Government they don’t want.
Simples…. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 09:27 - Jun 24 with 792 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:43 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I don’t believe there is a serious political commentator in the media that is not agreeing with my assessment.
Evidence or not. Johnson is in a far weaker position that he was at the beginning of the month. The two results will have had MP’s getting very worried about their own seats in a way that they weren’t when the VOC took place.
As somebody who does enjoy the political games, it’s my belief that he would have list if the vote took place today. |
You are of course right but your lack of a tardis means you can't prove it. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 09:41 - Jun 24 with 743 views | chicoazul |
| And today’s scapegoat on 09:00 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Stoke is coming at this from his position that the original 54 letter and the VOC came at the right time, even that it should have happened sooner, because it was the right thing to do. Nothing wrong with that but it was naive. But naive for the right reasons. Stockie is appalled that Johnson is PM.
Skokie doesn’t like political shenanigans. Again, nothing wrong with that.
I’m coming at this in the world we live in. Not the world we want to live in. I want Johnson gone, but looked at when the optimum time to knife him would be. And that was always on the back of two disastrous by-election defeats rather than before. |
His replacement will be someone far far more deranged and ideological than him. |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 09:46 - Jun 24 with 736 views | STYG |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:54 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
Don’t forget Taking Back Control |
I will still never understand how a man who cannot run a comb, can be seen fit to run a country. | | | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 11:20 - Jun 24 with 678 views | Swansea_Blue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 07:50 - Jun 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Hardly Boris' fault; he got Brexit done and got us through Covid. |
Yes, think of all the things they've done!
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| And today’s scapegoat on 11:25 - Jun 24 with 665 views | Churchman |
| And today’s scapegoat on 08:41 - Jun 24 by BlueBadger |
I'd be interested to see your evidence for your first sentence. |
My evidence is that Raaaaaaab’s academic record is in the public domain. In terms of whether he’s a pleasant bloke or not, I’ve been in the same room as him, but I didn’t meet him (I was far too much of a pleb). However, colleagues of mine did on more than one occasion and I will take their word on it, and that of his staff who I did meet.
I can tell you that he and his department at the time were hopeless and regarded as such - they were dealing primarily with the political aspects of Brexit. |  | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 11:34 - Jun 24 with 646 views | XYZ |
| And today’s scapegoat on 09:20 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
"I don’t believe there is a serious political commentator in the media that is not agreeing with my assessment."
They haven't had a great track record these last few years.
"Evidence or not. Johnson is in a far weaker position that he was at the beginning of the month. The two results will have had MP’s getting very worried about their own seats in a way that they weren’t when the VOC took place."
Many already expected this result at that time, any who didn't were incredibly naive. One nameless government minister has told the BBC this morning:
"Others are more optimistic, with one saying these results were "priced in."
"As somebody who does enjoy the political games, it’s my belief that he would have list if the vote took place today."
Maybe he would lose today but it was more principled to try and remove someone immediately who is providing continual damage to the country. If the Tories want him gone then he will be gone, the fact there aren't hundreds of Tories making statements today might indicate he wouldn't have lost today. Either way, the 1922 committee can change the rules at any time and have a vote so I still think it was the right thing to do to vote previously.
We both want Boris gone, I'm just not willing to let him limp along - there was one poster who wanted him to stay for 2 years just to increase Labours chances which I think is pretty appalling.
SB [Post edited 24 Jun 2022 9:36]
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I didn't fully appreciate the influence your making an argument on TWTD had on deciding the timing of the tories' no confidence vote, SB.
Shame on you. If it weren't for you he'd be gone by now.
Or something ... | | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 11:59 - Jun 24 with 615 views | fab_lover |
| And today’s scapegoat on 09:41 - Jun 24 by chicoazul |
His replacement will be someone far far more deranged and ideological than him. |
This. Johnson has "done a Stalin / Trump / Putin" in that anyone with any brains or morals has been purged from the front benches. If there is anyone waiting in the wings, now would not be the time for them to strike, because the next election will be lost. Johnson going will not automatically resolve the situation in the UK, the next person would probably be worse and more ERG-friendly as the hard right is the only organised (in a loose sense) cabal in the Tory party.
The best thing for the country would be for "Boris" to lead the Tories into the next election. People who voted for this shower need to be shown over the next 12 months why that was a disastrous choice, even if that means the rest of us need to suffer along with them. A hung parliament and a LibDem party determined to remove FPTP is the only long-term hope this country has. |  | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:05 - Jun 24 with 607 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 11:59 - Jun 24 by fab_lover |
This. Johnson has "done a Stalin / Trump / Putin" in that anyone with any brains or morals has been purged from the front benches. If there is anyone waiting in the wings, now would not be the time for them to strike, because the next election will be lost. Johnson going will not automatically resolve the situation in the UK, the next person would probably be worse and more ERG-friendly as the hard right is the only organised (in a loose sense) cabal in the Tory party.
The best thing for the country would be for "Boris" to lead the Tories into the next election. People who voted for this shower need to be shown over the next 12 months why that was a disastrous choice, even if that means the rest of us need to suffer along with them. A hung parliament and a LibDem party determined to remove FPTP is the only long-term hope this country has. |
It is a flawed argument in virtually every walk of life to say that the current person in charge should remain because the next person might be worse.
I certainly don't agree that it's the "best thing for the country" for Boris to lead the country for another 2 years. Our international reputation and the situation at home might be too far gone by then. There are simply a lot of people who aren't going to change their minds over the next 12 months regardless.
SB | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 12:17 - Jun 24 with 579 views | itfcjoe |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:05 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
It is a flawed argument in virtually every walk of life to say that the current person in charge should remain because the next person might be worse.
I certainly don't agree that it's the "best thing for the country" for Boris to lead the country for another 2 years. Our international reputation and the situation at home might be too far gone by then. There are simply a lot of people who aren't going to change their minds over the next 12 months regardless.
SB |
I guess the difference is normally when there will be a change there is an opportunity to go in any direction with it - whereas with this current version of the Tory party, unless they drift further and further right they won't be able to get anywhere because the ERG seem to represent 5% of the people but have 50% of the power |  |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 12:23 - Jun 24 with 570 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:17 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
I guess the difference is normally when there will be a change there is an opportunity to go in any direction with it - whereas with this current version of the Tory party, unless they drift further and further right they won't be able to get anywhere because the ERG seem to represent 5% of the people but have 50% of the power |
None of that is a validation for Boris remaining.
Once again, "the next person might be worse" is never a valid justification to not take action against someone who is damaging.
SB | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 12:26 - Jun 24 with 567 views | jaykay |
| And today’s scapegoat on 09:46 - Jun 24 by STYG |
I will still never understand how a man who cannot run a comb, can be seen fit to run a country. |
poor old michael foot was slaughtered by the media for the clothes he wore, but he did use a comb.
i expect a certain t hunt is feeling his bum cheeks tightening after last night results. i expect his next few articles in the e.a.d.t. will see him trying to show his caring side  |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 12:34 - Jun 24 with 549 views | itfcjoe |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:23 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
None of that is a validation for Boris remaining.
Once again, "the next person might be worse" is never a valid justification to not take action against someone who is damaging.
SB |
But Boris isn't in a vacuum is he? We aren't changing the Govt, we are changing the figurehead and the only people eligible to carry on are the enablers | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 12:39 - Jun 24 with 538 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:34 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
But Boris isn't in a vacuum is he? We aren't changing the Govt, we are changing the figurehead and the only people eligible to carry on are the enablers |
But in these peculiar circumstances the figurehead's "charisma" appears to be what wins him fans and would win him votes. The others are the same degree of evil without the ability to make idiots laugh. | | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 13:07 - Jun 24 with 488 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:34 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
But Boris isn't in a vacuum is he? We aren't changing the Govt, we are changing the figurehead and the only people eligible to carry on are the enablers |
He almost is in a vacuum, he's a complete figurehead, it's more Boris government than a Tory government.
When we are talking about international relations it's always in reference to Boris rather than the UK government.
I simply don't understand the attitude. You don't apply the same to Paul Cook - you didn't assume the next person would be worse even with Evans record of hiring in recent times.
Boris going is good for the country. Worry about what comes next at that point.
SB | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 13:09 - Jun 24 with 483 views | ElderGrizzly |
| And today’s scapegoat on 12:39 - Jun 24 by FoghornGleghorn |
But in these peculiar circumstances the figurehead's "charisma" appears to be what wins him fans and would win him votes. The others are the same degree of evil without the ability to make idiots laugh. |
Although here, the 3 main reasons people didn't vote Tory in Wakefield were Johnson
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| And today’s scapegoat on 13:20 - Jun 24 with 466 views | itfcjoe |
| And today’s scapegoat on 13:07 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
He almost is in a vacuum, he's a complete figurehead, it's more Boris government than a Tory government.
When we are talking about international relations it's always in reference to Boris rather than the UK government.
I simply don't understand the attitude. You don't apply the same to Paul Cook - you didn't assume the next person would be worse even with Evans record of hiring in recent times.
Boris going is good for the country. Worry about what comes next at that point.
SB |
I agree to an extent, but think the reference to football managers doesn't work because you aren't picking a manager from a fixed list of people who have supported him to carry on | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 13:21 - Jun 24 with 465 views | HARRY10 |
The problem for the Tories is not the bloaters almost endless costly mistakes, failures that have led to the loss of billions - or even his constant lies. Bur the knowledge that these will continue. A waddling liability. And there is the fear of what else will come out (trying to fix a job for his floozy), and the privileges committee report.
While they will not want this to fester over the summer, seeing the opposition rip holes out of him at will, they know any VONC in the next few months requires a change of rules.
However, the 1922 comm have to be certain of a resounding defeat for the walrus. Changing the rules is a major step and needs to be seen as decisive, if not it will merely give further strength to the ERG and other sundry nutters. Leading to a further divided party, occupied with in fighting.
Only when the 1922 comm can be certain of a big enough majority will it act, and time is limited as the summer recess nears. 'A week in politics...' etc. Thatcher was out of the country when they struck.
The thought would be the men in grey suits would come calling - the revolver and the glass of whiskey in the study. 'Don't make scene, old chap'. I expect though, it will take a few tyre levers, crowbars and a crane to winch his bloated carcass out of number 10.
And unless you are a cap doffing Tory Boy the spectacle will be most entertaining. Jeremy Kyle for the political class, per chance.  | | | |
| And today’s scapegoat on 13:30 - Jun 24 with 444 views | StokieBlue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 13:20 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
I agree to an extent, but think the reference to football managers doesn't work because you aren't picking a manager from a fixed list of people who have supported him to carry on |
You might not be doing that with the Tories either - no guarantee the next leader will come from the cabinet (although I accept it's likely). Corbyn came from nowhere, outlier candidates are not impossible.
SB | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 13:31 - Jun 24 with 436 views | Pinewoodblue |
| And today’s scapegoat on 13:09 - Jun 24 by ElderGrizzly |
Although here, the 3 main reasons people didn't vote Tory in Wakefield were Johnson
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Amazing therefore that turnout was down from 64% to under 40%.
Labour need to persuade more former conservative voters to switch their vote. | |
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| And today’s scapegoat on 13:47 - Jun 24 with 411 views | Darth_Koont |
| And today’s scapegoat on 13:09 - Jun 24 by ElderGrizzly |
Although here, the 3 main reasons people didn't vote Tory in Wakefield were Johnson
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Of the current issues, that’s certainly true.
But the absence of Brexit, both in terms of a dominant theme, repeatable slogan (Get Brexit Done) and ultimate distraction/misdirection from these real critical areas, is the big issue. Without Brexit, the Tories and Johnson were always going to be left high and dry*.
*Although as it’s about Brexit not there to provide cover, and thus exposing more of their true nature and awful reality of their government, it should be low and slimy. |  |
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