| Starmer.....same old, same old..... 07:41 - Feb 23 with 9591 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Interviewer...."how can we trust today's pledges when you junked your leadership ones?"
Him......"well what today's promises are about........."
He's so sh1t but Harry, is he fat? |  |
| |  |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:05 - Feb 23 with 3217 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Beginning to think this is a Tory dominated forum - there are more Starmer bashing-threads than Sunak and co.
Are you DaveU in disguise? |  | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:08 - Feb 23 with 3204 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:05 - Feb 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Beginning to think this is a Tory dominated forum - there are more Starmer bashing-threads than Sunak and co.
Are you DaveU in disguise? |
He's just so uninspiring and shallower than a really shallow thing. T.I.N.A. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:36 - Feb 23 with 3147 views | Churchman |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:08 - Feb 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
He's just so uninspiring and shallower than a really shallow thing. T.I.N.A. |
After 13 years of wrecking ball, I’ll take a pumpkin on a stick as PM. Anything has to be better than shiny faced chancer Cameron, micro managing dithering May, shyster Johnson, dimbo Truss and hopeless, weak sadsack Sunak.
Uninspiring and shallow? I don’t disagree - he is dull. But nor do I care. I don’t want to know the bloke. Just a crumb of competence will do me. It’s not saying much but I think he has more about him than the above shower of self serving charlatans put together. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 8:55]
|  | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:44 - Feb 23 with 3132 views | Guthrum |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:05 - Feb 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Beginning to think this is a Tory dominated forum - there are more Starmer bashing-threads than Sunak and co.
Are you DaveU in disguise? |
After an unsuccessful period of (mild) radicalism, the Labour party are now trying the anodyne route to power, chiefly by not being so shambolic and openly unpleasant as the current government. This, however, upsets those who want more overt progressiveness and are not prepared to hold back their challenge until actually in No.10. Refusing to game the (admittedly dreadful) system, in other words.
Starmer may not be Corbyn, but is he worse than Johnson? Sunak may appear more reasonable, but he still has the likes of Suella Braverman and Lee Anderson on board.
Perhaps it comes down to the fact that the Labour left felt betrayed by Blair and Brown, with their populist approach, sometimes dubious wars and authoritarian tendencies. That after the bitter civil war for influence in the Party during Kinnock's tenure, which the militants lost. Starmer is not New Labour (no blinding charisma, for a start), but many fear that in his blandness and moderation. |  |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:29 - Feb 23 with 3000 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:36 - Feb 23 by Churchman |
After 13 years of wrecking ball, I’ll take a pumpkin on a stick as PM. Anything has to be better than shiny faced chancer Cameron, micro managing dithering May, shyster Johnson, dimbo Truss and hopeless, weak sadsack Sunak.
Uninspiring and shallow? I don’t disagree - he is dull. But nor do I care. I don’t want to know the bloke. Just a crumb of competence will do me. It’s not saying much but I think he has more about him than the above shower of self serving charlatans put together. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 8:55]
|
A bit like Jonathan Douglas I long to be surprised on the upside but in my heart I just know it won't happen. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 9:31]
| |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:37 - Feb 23 with 2956 views | DJR |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 08:36 - Feb 23 by Churchman |
After 13 years of wrecking ball, I’ll take a pumpkin on a stick as PM. Anything has to be better than shiny faced chancer Cameron, micro managing dithering May, shyster Johnson, dimbo Truss and hopeless, weak sadsack Sunak.
Uninspiring and shallow? I don’t disagree - he is dull. But nor do I care. I don’t want to know the bloke. Just a crumb of competence will do me. It’s not saying much but I think he has more about him than the above shower of self serving charlatans put together. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 8:55]
|
You're a good judge of character.
The funny thing is that Cameron is the one leader who appears to have largely got away with any criticism, despite being responsible for austerity.
He was clearly bright, because Professor Vernon Bogdanor said he was "one of the ablest students" he has taught, but my understanding is that he was pretty lazy* and it is clear that he lacked judgment and common sense.
It is difficult to think of any policy of his government which has stood up to scrutiny. Examples include the distastrous privatisation of the probation service and the Lansley-led NHS reforms.
*A friend of mine turned up at a reception at No.10 at which Cameron was meant to be present, only to be told that he was playing tennis. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 9:40]
|  | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:55 - Feb 23 with 2869 views | Pinewoodblue |
This thread highlights Labour’s biggest problem.
Getting the right message over to the electorate, they know how awful the Tories are, they want to know Labour will be different, and that needs Labour to make its intentions clear. Starmer isn’t going to do that.
Bankster is right to raise concerns over Starmer and his don’t rock the boat approach.
Looking ahead I can see a Starmer victory but him standing down fairly quickly followed by a big split in the party as the left see an opportunity to change direction. |  |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:56 - Feb 23 with 2880 views | Ryorry |
I like you Bankster, but quite frankly I'm sick of you & a couple of others on here doing your level best to try & ensure the tories get to remain in power in perpetuity.
If I (and I know others on here have said this goes for them too) can hold our noses & vote Labour during Corbyn's leadership, then I'd have thought you could do the same during Starmer's leadership.
Did you stop supporting ITFC during Hirst's reign? |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:13 - Feb 23 with 2832 views | Darth_Koont |
Johnson was the Brexiteers’ liar sticking it to the rest so he was their hero.
Starmer is the “centrists’” liar sticking it to the left so he’s their hero.
It’s frightening how low people’s moral and democratic standards drop when they think that the deceit and dishonesty is in their own interests. |  |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:21 - Feb 23 with 2778 views | noggin |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:56 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
I like you Bankster, but quite frankly I'm sick of you & a couple of others on here doing your level best to try & ensure the tories get to remain in power in perpetuity.
If I (and I know others on here have said this goes for them too) can hold our noses & vote Labour during Corbyn's leadership, then I'd have thought you could do the same during Starmer's leadership.
Did you stop supporting ITFC during Hirst's reign? |
Surely you're not comparing politics to supporting a football team? |  |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:22 - Feb 23 with 2777 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:56 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
I like you Bankster, but quite frankly I'm sick of you & a couple of others on here doing your level best to try & ensure the tories get to remain in power in perpetuity.
If I (and I know others on here have said this goes for them too) can hold our noses & vote Labour during Corbyn's leadership, then I'd have thought you could do the same during Starmer's leadership.
Did you stop supporting ITFC during Hirst's reign? |
I want the Tories out and that includes the One Nation Tories and the Labour Right.
Starmer is still more part of the problem than the solution. And the sooner we call out our failing politics and dully neoliberal, status quo-propping politicians the better.
It’s not football and it’s not the game people are trying to make it. Millions of men, women and especially children and young people need more than tinkering and being patronised. They need politicians and politics that will address their daily reality as well as the global reality. The only winners in all this have been the right-wing populists that have stepped into the void at the heart of public debate and are exploiting that disillusionment and disenfranchisement. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:27 - Feb 23 with 2752 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:21 - Feb 23 by noggin |
Surely you're not comparing politics to supporting a football team? |
Obviously there are similarities. You don't stop supporting what's right & good just because currently & for a limited period there's someone in charge of it who you happen to dislike or disagree with. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 10:29]
| |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:31 - Feb 23 with 2722 views | noggin |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:27 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
Obviously there are similarities. You don't stop supporting what's right & good just because currently & for a limited period there's someone in charge of it who you happen to dislike or disagree with. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 10:29]
|
Blindly following one political party, regardless of that party's direction and manifesto, opens the door to corruption and self serving politicians. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:31 - Feb 23 with 2720 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:27 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
Obviously there are similarities. You don't stop supporting what's right & good just because currently & for a limited period there's someone in charge of it who you happen to dislike or disagree with. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 10:29]
|
I don’t think Labour in its current guise is right or good. In fact, I think they’re the worst opposition at the worst time given the challenges facing the UK and the world.
Come Election Day they probably will be the best of the evil twins to choose from. But they and their supporters need to be pressured to be an awful lot better than that. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:35 - Feb 23 with 2687 views | DJR |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:56 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
I like you Bankster, but quite frankly I'm sick of you & a couple of others on here doing your level best to try & ensure the tories get to remain in power in perpetuity.
If I (and I know others on here have said this goes for them too) can hold our noses & vote Labour during Corbyn's leadership, then I'd have thought you could do the same during Starmer's leadership.
Did you stop supporting ITFC during Hirst's reign? |
I will still support Labour warts and all, but to me the following, from the Guardian, is disappointing, especially given what I've argued on another thread.
"Starmer defends court saying Shamima Begum shouldn't regain citizenship, arguing 'national security has to come first'
In an interview with BBC Breakfast this morning Keir Starmer defended the special immigration appeals commission (Siac) decision yesterday to refuse Shamima Begum’s appeal against the decision to remove her British citizenship. Starmer said “national security has to come first”.
Yesterday, after the Siac decision was announced, the Conservative party was tweeting a clip from an interview that Starmer gave to Sophy Ridge on Sky News in March 2019 saying that the decision by the then home secretary, Sajid Javid, to deprive Begum of her citizenship was “wrong”.
This comment was put to Starmer in his interview this morning. Describing the decision yesterday as “the right decision”, he did not explain why he had changed his mind since four years ago, although he did refer obliquely to Siac considering evidence that was not available in 2019.
"The court has reached its decision. It has looked at all the evidence. I support that decision. As I say, national security has to come first."
Starmer’s comment this morning opens him up to the charge of doing a U-turn, and this morning CCHQ has been using emojis to accuse him of flip-flopping.
But Starmer may have decided that it is better to be accused of being inconsistent than to be accused of being weak on national security issues."
EDIT: Given what I said on that other thread, I don't think Starmer's take on the case is actually right. I don't think the court's decision was based on national security evidence. Instead, it said it could only challenge the Home Secretary's decision on that evidence, if there had been a mistake of law. But I suppose that is a bit too nuanced for a BBC Breakfast audience. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 10:43]
| | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:37 - Feb 23 with 2688 views | Blueschev |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:56 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
I like you Bankster, but quite frankly I'm sick of you & a couple of others on here doing your level best to try & ensure the tories get to remain in power in perpetuity.
If I (and I know others on here have said this goes for them too) can hold our noses & vote Labour during Corbyn's leadership, then I'd have thought you could do the same during Starmer's leadership.
Did you stop supporting ITFC during Hirst's reign? |
I'll be voting Labour, not that it will make a blind bit of difference given our ridiculously un-democratic system. My concern is that if Starmer succeeds in purging the left from the party altogether, our democratic choices are even further eroded. I can't pretend not to be angry about that just because the Tories are awful. |  | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:39 - Feb 23 with 2664 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:31 - Feb 23 by noggin |
Blindly following one political party, regardless of that party's direction and manifesto, opens the door to corruption and self serving politicians. |
Clearly current Labour isn't perfect (and I've said for many years now that the party needs a reset as it's not fit for 21stC purpose, having been designed for 20thC conditions & needs - albeit many of those either still exist, sadly, or are returning).
Please name me an alternative that would overturn the tories & I'll consider them - would happily vote Green if tens of millions of others could be guaranteed to have the courage of their convictions & do the same. As it is, it's a wasted vote.
I'd go with tactical voting at the next GE anyway. Whatever it takes to #GTTO. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:41 - Feb 23 with 2649 views | DJR |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:37 - Feb 23 by Blueschev |
I'll be voting Labour, not that it will make a blind bit of difference given our ridiculously un-democratic system. My concern is that if Starmer succeeds in purging the left from the party altogether, our democratic choices are even further eroded. I can't pretend not to be angry about that just because the Tories are awful. |
That's my feeling too. And as you are also (I believe) a Labour Party member, I think we have more of a right to express an opinion than many others. | | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:42 - Feb 23 with 2649 views | nodge_blue |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:22 - Feb 23 by Darth_Koont |
I want the Tories out and that includes the One Nation Tories and the Labour Right.
Starmer is still more part of the problem than the solution. And the sooner we call out our failing politics and dully neoliberal, status quo-propping politicians the better.
It’s not football and it’s not the game people are trying to make it. Millions of men, women and especially children and young people need more than tinkering and being patronised. They need politicians and politics that will address their daily reality as well as the global reality. The only winners in all this have been the right-wing populists that have stepped into the void at the heart of public debate and are exploiting that disillusionment and disenfranchisement. |
But the truth is, that people don't want the hard left. The average Barnsley Labour voter (sorry for any cliche) is not a Corbynite. And its why the red wall crumbled.
Politics needs to be fought in the centre ground.
Im more convinced of that than ever as we see a huge tug of war in recent years with more weight on the ends of the rope leading to fractures in the actual fibres itself. Who would ever have believed that right wing populists would nearly have been successful in a coup in the USA?
Starmer will be a good leader I believe. Whoever in the long list has been perfect? |  |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:43 - Feb 23 with 2629 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:31 - Feb 23 by Darth_Koont |
I don’t think Labour in its current guise is right or good. In fact, I think they’re the worst opposition at the worst time given the challenges facing the UK and the world.
Come Election Day they probably will be the best of the evil twins to choose from. But they and their supporters need to be pressured to be an awful lot better than that. |
I was referring to right and good in the sense of trying to save the NHS, eliminate homelessness & the need for foodbanks in the UK etc. etc. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:46 - Feb 23 with 2589 views | WickhamsLeftBoot |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 09:56 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
I like you Bankster, but quite frankly I'm sick of you & a couple of others on here doing your level best to try & ensure the tories get to remain in power in perpetuity.
If I (and I know others on here have said this goes for them too) can hold our noses & vote Labour during Corbyn's leadership, then I'd have thought you could do the same during Starmer's leadership.
Did you stop supporting ITFC during Hirst's reign? |
I’ll be voting Labour, we simply cannot have the Tories run the country any longer. They’ve destroyed it. |  | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:51 - Feb 23 with 2540 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:43 - Feb 23 by Ryorry |
I was referring to right and good in the sense of trying to save the NHS, eliminate homelessness & the need for foodbanks in the UK etc. etc. |
So am I. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:52 - Feb 23 with 2531 views | DJR |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:42 - Feb 23 by nodge_blue |
But the truth is, that people don't want the hard left. The average Barnsley Labour voter (sorry for any cliche) is not a Corbynite. And its why the red wall crumbled.
Politics needs to be fought in the centre ground.
Im more convinced of that than ever as we see a huge tug of war in recent years with more weight on the ends of the rope leading to fractures in the actual fibres itself. Who would ever have believed that right wing populists would nearly have been successful in a coup in the USA?
Starmer will be a good leader I believe. Whoever in the long list has been perfect? |
The problem though is the centre ground has led to water privatisation, which another thread suggests has not been a bed of roses.
And Starmer's answer to the failed energy market (which, for example, is likely to lead to an extra £200 on energy bills because of the failure of Bulb Energy) is different regulation.
Of course, no one is suggesting the answers to these problems are easy, but confining the debate to neo-liberal solutions does not seem to me to be the way forward.
EDIT: Leaving aside Brexit, which dominated the 2019 election, and despite Corbyn's obvious failings, Labour in 2017 got its highest share of the vote since 1997, despite having lost Scotland. It suggests that not everything that Corby advanced was unpopular. [Post edited 23 Feb 2023 10:56]
| | | |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:53 - Feb 23 with 2524 views | noggin |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:42 - Feb 23 by nodge_blue |
But the truth is, that people don't want the hard left. The average Barnsley Labour voter (sorry for any cliche) is not a Corbynite. And its why the red wall crumbled.
Politics needs to be fought in the centre ground.
Im more convinced of that than ever as we see a huge tug of war in recent years with more weight on the ends of the rope leading to fractures in the actual fibres itself. Who would ever have believed that right wing populists would nearly have been successful in a coup in the USA?
Starmer will be a good leader I believe. Whoever in the long list has been perfect? |
"But the truth is, that people don't want the hard left."
Corbyn's politics are not 'hard left' Put his policies to your man in Barnsley, without mentioning who's policies they are, and he would probably tell you that these are the policies the north wants. | |
| |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:55 - Feb 23 with 2512 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer.....same old, same old..... on 10:42 - Feb 23 by nodge_blue |
But the truth is, that people don't want the hard left. The average Barnsley Labour voter (sorry for any cliche) is not a Corbynite. And its why the red wall crumbled.
Politics needs to be fought in the centre ground.
Im more convinced of that than ever as we see a huge tug of war in recent years with more weight on the ends of the rope leading to fractures in the actual fibres itself. Who would ever have believed that right wing populists would nearly have been successful in a coup in the USA?
Starmer will be a good leader I believe. Whoever in the long list has been perfect? |
We’re not talking about the hard left. It’s social democracy that’s being taken off the agenda. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
