| Mason Greenwood development 15:06 - Aug 21 with 7468 views | bluelagos |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:09 - Aug 21 with 5259 views | Herbivore |
Wonder if the Saudis will go in for him. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:10 - Aug 21 with 5240 views | textbackup |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Wonder if the Saudis will go in for him. |
Of course they will… and his reward for being a piece of sht… £500k a week. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:11 - Aug 21 with 5227 views | pointofblue |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Wonder if the Saudis will go in for him. |
Would be relief at the FA if so. If he moves to a major league and does well there’d then be a debate about whether he should be allowed back into the England fold. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:12 - Aug 21 with 5190 views | bluelagos |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Wonder if the Saudis will go in for him. |
Would he get in the Newcastle team? | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:22 - Aug 21 with 5057 views | Mullet |
The fact they spent a month planning to redeem him makes this announcement hard to process. All it feels like is another commercial decision due to the massive backlash they got.
What a complete mess. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:38 - Aug 21 with 4941 views | LankHenners |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:22 - Aug 21 by Mullet |
The fact they spent a month planning to redeem him makes this announcement hard to process. All it feels like is another commercial decision due to the massive backlash they got.
What a complete mess. |
Their mealy mouthed statement as good as confirms that they wanted to reintegrate him but feel they were forced not to. The statement itself doesn't make much sense as he both apparently takes responsibility for his actions and mistakes but also didn't actually do anything he was accused of doing, despite the audio of it being released publicly.
Grim stuff all round from club and player. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:42 - Aug 21 with 4891 views | pointofblue |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:38 - Aug 21 by LankHenners |
Their mealy mouthed statement as good as confirms that they wanted to reintegrate him but feel they were forced not to. The statement itself doesn't make much sense as he both apparently takes responsibility for his actions and mistakes but also didn't actually do anything he was accused of doing, despite the audio of it being released publicly.
Grim stuff all round from club and player. |
Probably had to be that way so the CPS can’t use it as an admission of guilt and charge without witnesses. | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:43 - Aug 21 with 4881 views | Bramidan |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:22 - Aug 21 by Mullet |
The fact they spent a month planning to redeem him makes this announcement hard to process. All it feels like is another commercial decision due to the massive backlash they got.
What a complete mess. |
Hold on, I thought that after several witnesses dropped or changed their statements, fresh evidence came to light, all charges were dropped.
That means he is innocent.
Playing devils advocate what gives people the right to dictate to an employer who they can employ especially as all charges dropped. | | | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:48 - Aug 21 with 4800 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Wonder if the Saudis will go in for him. |
He’d be welcomed with open arms over there. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:49 - Aug 21 with 4787 views | Mullet |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:43 - Aug 21 by Bramidan |
Hold on, I thought that after several witnesses dropped or changed their statements, fresh evidence came to light, all charges were dropped.
That means he is innocent.
Playing devils advocate what gives people the right to dictate to an employer who they can employ especially as all charges dropped. |
That does not mean he is innocent at all.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mason-greenwood-cps-charges-dropped
“In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction." The CPS felt they wouldn't win the case, it's a very different distinction.
No one is dictating who Man United employ, but given they rely heavily on fans as customers a boycott and reputational damage is their motivation here. The fact the CPS statement focuses heavily on victims still coming forward in these cases is also incredibly telling. | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 15:50 - Aug 21 with 4771 views | bluelagos |
The Man U statement below
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Richard Arnold, Manchester United CEO, has written this letter to our supporters...
Now that we have concluded and announced the outcome of the club's investigation into Mason Greenwood, I want to be direct and transparent with our fans about the process and the reasons for our decision.
This was an internal disciplinary investigation between employer and employee which would ordinarily take place outside of the public eye. Given the public nature of the allegations and Mason's profile, I acknowledge that this was not an ordinary situation, but I felt it important that we still follow due process and, so far as possible, avoid media comment until I had made a definitive decision.
When audio footage and imagery was posted online in January 2022, my feelings were of shock and concern for the alleged victim. Her welfare, wishes and perspective have been central to the club's approach ever since, as have the club’s standards and values. While we immediately concluded that Mason should be suspended pending investigation, we were also conscious of our duty of care towards him and the importance of making a decision based on full information. Until February this year, this was a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. It was only when charges were dropped that the club discussed the allegations with Mason and others involved in the case.
Our investigation sought to collate as much evidence as possible to establish facts and context. This was not a quick or straightforward process for a variety of reasons. It was essential for us to respect the rights and wishes of the alleged victim. Also, we have limited powers of investigation which meant we were reliant on third party cooperation. Timings have also been influenced by my desire to minimise the impact of the investigation on our men's and women's teams, as well as our Lionesses. I acknowledge that this gave more time for speculation, but the alternative would have been to compromise due process or create untimely disruption.
While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity, but I am able to share the following with you which should give you some insight into the complexity of this case:
- The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
- We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
- The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings.
Last week the media reported that we had decided to reintegrate Mason and that elements of a plan to do so had been leaked to them. Reintegration was one of the outcomes we considered and planned for. For context, over the course of the past six months several outcomes have been contemplated and planned for, and my view has evolved as our process progressed. While the ultimate decision rested with me, I was taking various factors and views into account right up until the point of finalising my decision.
While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for. I am also mindful of the challenge that Mason would face rebuilding his career and raising a baby together with his partner in the harsh spotlight of Manchester United. Further, this case has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club.
Although we have decided that Mason will seek to rebuild his career away from Manchester United, that does not signal the end of this matter. The club will continue to offer its support both to the alleged victim and Mason to help them rebuild and move forward positively with their lives.
Thank you for your continued support,
Richard Arnold | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 16:21 - Aug 21 with 4519 views | baxterbasics |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:38 - Aug 21 by LankHenners |
Their mealy mouthed statement as good as confirms that they wanted to reintegrate him but feel they were forced not to. The statement itself doesn't make much sense as he both apparently takes responsibility for his actions and mistakes but also didn't actually do anything he was accused of doing, despite the audio of it being released publicly.
Grim stuff all round from club and player. |
I wonder if the initial statement was more about testing the water to see what the public response would be. They got their answer. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 16:32 - Aug 21 with 4436 views | LankHenners |
| Mason Greenwood development on 16:21 - Aug 21 by baxterbasics |
I wonder if the initial statement was more about testing the water to see what the public response would be. They got their answer. |
In part maybe but think they were spooked by The Athletic's Adam Crafton's reporting of the situation after having stuff leaked to him by dismayed staff at the club. They rushed out the statement to get ahead of his story and, naturally, it went down horribly. | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 17:57 - Aug 21 with 4222 views | ChampionsofInnsbruck |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Wonder if the Saudis will go in for him. |
Can we revoke his citizenship when he’s over there so he’s stuck? |  | | |
| Mason Greenwood development on 18:22 - Aug 21 with 4133 views | Hipsterectomy |
Did they really need to include: "Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged"
Makes him sound like they think he did nothing wrong and are just sorry he's been judged so harshly by the public/fans and media
what a sht club |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 19:17 - Aug 21 with 4013 views | Herbivore |
| Mason Greenwood development on 18:22 - Aug 21 by Hipsterectomy |
Did they really need to include: "Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged"
Makes him sound like they think he did nothing wrong and are just sorry he's been judged so harshly by the public/fans and media
what a sht club |
I imagine they've had to say that in order for Greenwood to agree to go quietly. | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 19:46 - Aug 21 with 3909 views | RIPbobby |
The only sensible option for him is to go and play overseas. He will never make it in this country for obvious reasons. |  | | |
| Mason Greenwood development on 20:02 - Aug 21 with 3850 views | Hipsterectomy |
| Mason Greenwood development on 19:17 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
I imagine they've had to say that in order for Greenwood to agree to go quietly. |
That definitely might be true, but I'd assume there are general employment laws that are still valid in football e.g. gross misconduct or bringing the club into disrepute | |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 20:10 - Aug 21 with 3815 views | Herbivore |
| Mason Greenwood development on 20:02 - Aug 21 by Hipsterectomy |
That definitely might be true, but I'd assume there are general employment laws that are still valid in football e.g. gross misconduct or bringing the club into disrepute |
That neither of those things are mentioned in the statement suggests they don't feel on solid enough legal ground, so looks like they've instead reached a compromise where Greenwood leaves without being officially found to have done anything wrong. | |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 22:59 - Aug 21 with 3543 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:43 - Aug 21 by Bramidan |
Hold on, I thought that after several witnesses dropped or changed their statements, fresh evidence came to light, all charges were dropped.
That means he is innocent.
Playing devils advocate what gives people the right to dictate to an employer who they can employ especially as all charges dropped. |
You are mistaking the legal principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty" with somebody being Innocent of something, that is, that they didn't do it.
If it ever did come to trial, the judge would try to ensure that people on the Jury hadn't heard the audio of the alleged attack. If they had heard or read anything about it, the Judge would tell them to clear it from their minds and only focus on the evidence put before them.
That is what the Presumption of Innocence is: clearing away any prejudice towards those charged and evaluating only the evidence presented in court before reaching a verdict.
In this case, the jurors would hear the audio recording and then either reach the decision that it is a genuine recording of an assault, or not.
Lots of other people have heard it and made up their minds.
Just a reminder on the law in England:
Threatening to commit an act of extreme violence on someone if they don't do what you want is Assault, whether you actually commit the act of violence or not.
Threatening to commit an act of violence against someone if they don't engage in sexual activity with you is a Sexual Assault, whether you commit the act of violence or not, OR whether the sex act is performed or not.
Putting someone in fear of violence is an Assault.
Depending on the sex act demanded with menaces, the actual crime committed could be one of several different ones. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood development on 23:07 - Aug 21 with 3515 views | cressi |
| Mason Greenwood development on 22:59 - Aug 21 by ArnoldMoorhen |
You are mistaking the legal principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty" with somebody being Innocent of something, that is, that they didn't do it.
If it ever did come to trial, the judge would try to ensure that people on the Jury hadn't heard the audio of the alleged attack. If they had heard or read anything about it, the Judge would tell them to clear it from their minds and only focus on the evidence put before them.
That is what the Presumption of Innocence is: clearing away any prejudice towards those charged and evaluating only the evidence presented in court before reaching a verdict.
In this case, the jurors would hear the audio recording and then either reach the decision that it is a genuine recording of an assault, or not.
Lots of other people have heard it and made up their minds.
Just a reminder on the law in England:
Threatening to commit an act of extreme violence on someone if they don't do what you want is Assault, whether you actually commit the act of violence or not.
Threatening to commit an act of violence against someone if they don't engage in sexual activity with you is a Sexual Assault, whether you commit the act of violence or not, OR whether the sex act is performed or not.
Putting someone in fear of violence is an Assault.
Depending on the sex act demanded with menaces, the actual crime committed could be one of several different ones. |
At the end of the day Not found guilty of anything and we all thought Mendy of Man City on 8 rape charges that have semi ruined his career went whether a footballer or a dustman you are innocent unless proven guilty. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood development on 23:11 - Aug 21 with 3491 views | tractordownsouth |
| Mason Greenwood development on 15:43 - Aug 21 by Bramidan |
Hold on, I thought that after several witnesses dropped or changed their statements, fresh evidence came to light, all charges were dropped.
That means he is innocent.
Playing devils advocate what gives people the right to dictate to an employer who they can employ especially as all charges dropped. |
Even if he isn't guilty in the eyes of the law, the behaviour in that audio clip was disgusting and should be enough to stop him playing. You don't have to be a convicted criminal to be suspended from your workplace and United haven't terminated his contract so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Nobody's saying that Manchester United didn't have the right to bring him back, but everybody else has the right to protest the decision as well, which is why they've backed down from wanting to re-integrate him. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood development on 01:25 - Aug 22 with 3367 views | lizzibee |
Last I checked Was innocent ? | | | |
| Mason Greenwood development on 08:33 - Aug 22 with 3120 views | BlueBadger |
| Mason Greenwood development on 23:07 - Aug 21 by cressi |
At the end of the day Not found guilty of anything and we all thought Mendy of Man City on 8 rape charges that have semi ruined his career went whether a footballer or a dustman you are innocent unless proven guilty. |
Interesting how our more right wing 'hang 'em and flog 'em' posters can always forgive and offer second chances to alleged abusers, wife beaters and rapists but not, say, refugees fleeing war zones entering the country illegally because there are no legal routes into the country. [Post edited 22 Aug 2023 8:34]
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| Mason Greenwood development on 08:39 - Aug 22 with 3094 views | Zx1988 |
| Mason Greenwood development on 20:10 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
That neither of those things are mentioned in the statement suggests they don't feel on solid enough legal ground, so looks like they've instead reached a compromise where Greenwood leaves without being officially found to have done anything wrong. |
I get the distinct feeling that the official version of events may have changed at about the same time that the alleged victim withdrew their cooperation with the case, leading to the CPS having to pull out.
If the official version of events now doesn't support the initial interpretation of the recording and photos, the club would be on incredibly dodgy ground to claim otherwise by levying a charge of Gross Misconduct or suchlike against Greenwood. | |
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