| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" 12:28 - Mar 27 with 1513 views | Dubtractor |
Absolute nonsense of the highest order.
Possibly it would be different people being upset, but that's the point about why the club should avoid politics, as it is absolutely guaranteed to upset lots of people.
You've only got to see how many times the imaginary visit from Polanski has been brought up to understand that point. I'm almost wondering if he has actually visited, given the number of times it has been mentioned. |  |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:32 - Mar 27 with 1454 views | CrayonKing |
Yea. If we let Polanski or Starmer film a party political broadcast inside PR they'd be apoplectic and it's dishonest nonsense for them to pretend otherwise.
Half of them couldn't even handle players kneeling for 2 seconds ffs |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:35 - Mar 27 with 1405 views | urbanpenguin |
Actually, I don't agree with this entirely.
It fundamentally would not have happened with eg Starmer or Polanski, or even Badenoch.
Yes, they may organise a visit to the club, and as is normal with such political press junkets there would be meet and greats with the community team, womens team, youth, etc etc, then there would be an (often clunky) policy announcement or pr moment that shoehorns in the community work or outreach of the club with some policy statement or ambition.
What Farage did, and now seemingly with the OK of Ashton, was demonstrably not that. It was cheap, it was using the club but not in any meaningful way other than leverage, and then doubling down with nasty jokey social media posts about being right wing and McKenna leaving. It was unprofessional from all involved.
I simply can't imagine any other party or politician doing that, so this "if it was Starmer" to me is moot. Starmer, Polanski, Badenoch etc - regardless of politics - would be professional, above board, and not abuse the hosts in the way Farage did, and often does. [Post edited 27 Mar 12:41]
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:40 - Mar 27 with 1340 views | Swansea_Blue |
Fair point. I was thinking there probably wouldn’t have been this much fuss, but hadn’t considered there would be but just from a different set of fans. And then roles would be reversed and we’d be telling them to suck it up and coming up with loads of straw men and other false equivalencies. Lol
It’s the battle of the Happy Clappers v the Nappy Crappers, Reform version  |  |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:41 - Mar 27 with 1327 views | redrickstuhaart |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:35 - Mar 27 by urbanpenguin |
Actually, I don't agree with this entirely.
It fundamentally would not have happened with eg Starmer or Polanski, or even Badenoch.
Yes, they may organise a visit to the club, and as is normal with such political press junkets there would be meet and greats with the community team, womens team, youth, etc etc, then there would be an (often clunky) policy announcement or pr moment that shoehorns in the community work or outreach of the club with some policy statement or ambition.
What Farage did, and now seemingly with the OK of Ashton, was demonstrably not that. It was cheap, it was using the club but not in any meaningful way other than leverage, and then doubling down with nasty jokey social media posts about being right wing and McKenna leaving. It was unprofessional from all involved.
I simply can't imagine any other party or politician doing that, so this "if it was Starmer" to me is moot. Starmer, Polanski, Badenoch etc - regardless of politics - would be professional, above board, and not abuse the hosts in the way Farage did, and often does. [Post edited 27 Mar 12:41]
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It is also the case that it would be just the same with Polanski... IF he was espousing bigoted racist views... |  |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:43 - Mar 27 with 1288 views | Vic |
For me personally it's not the fact that it was Farage - which is why I wasn't an early adopter of the furore, despite despising the man and all his politics.
For me it is that we've been lied to. |  |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:46 - Mar 27 with 1237 views | bsw72 |
I'm surprised that Southampton has not been mentioned, considering that Rupert Lowe was the chairman for many years, spouting his political rhetoric as a member of the Referendum party at the time. Obviously his rise with Reform and now Restore Britain has been moer recent, but he was still quite political when running the club.
Just shows how different the political spectrum has become in last 20 years, and far more fractured. |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:49 - Mar 27 with 1208 views | CrayonKing |
Sorry Dub. Accidental downvote. Fat fingers! | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:50 - Mar 27 with 1188 views | ulrichlepen |
If Starmer came to Portman Road, as a Labour Prime Minister in a Labour constituency, it could give a large boost to our bid to become the UK City of Culture and would not undermine Jack Abbott as our democratically elected official.
And if it was Polanski, at least he isn't a racist, sexist, Trump lap dog spouting divisive populist jingoism aimed at riling people up and causing fractions within society.
But by and large the worst is the lying and lack of ownership by Ashton, and the nationwide laughing stock we have become | | | |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:51 - Mar 27 with 1169 views | CrayonKing |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:46 - Mar 27 by bsw72 |
I'm surprised that Southampton has not been mentioned, considering that Rupert Lowe was the chairman for many years, spouting his political rhetoric as a member of the Referendum party at the time. Obviously his rise with Reform and now Restore Britain has been moer recent, but he was still quite political when running the club.
Just shows how different the political spectrum has become in last 20 years, and far more fractured. |
I think it's more the fact that, as far as I'm aware, he did it as an individual rather than using the club to promote his politics | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:52 - Mar 27 with 1158 views | jaseitfc2015 |
100% agree that no political party should be allowed to use the club in the way slime ball Farage has
That said I think we’d likely just see roles reversed if it were Labour or Greens used on here - there would be some that would have the same reaction , me being one
But as you said , this is precisely why the club shouldn’t dabble in politics
I did politics (for my sins and because I was stupid) at uni about 15 years ago and used to wish people were more political - now I can’t fking stand it…. Town was my wonderful escape from the sh1te of the modern world but Ashton has messed that up | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:58 - Mar 27 with 1105 views | bartyg |
The only people saying this are tacitly admitting that they aren't outraged BECAUSE it's Farage. |  |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:58 - Mar 27 with 1102 views | Blueschev |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:41 - Mar 27 by redrickstuhaart |
It is also the case that it would be just the same with Polanski... IF he was espousing bigoted racist views... |
Polanski being hosted in the same way would also be a PR disaster that would divide the fan base. Look at how angry just the thought of it is making some people, despite there being no hint of it ever happening, and nobody suggesting that it should. |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:59 - Mar 27 with 1074 views | bsw72 |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:51 - Mar 27 by CrayonKing |
I think it's more the fact that, as far as I'm aware, he did it as an individual rather than using the club to promote his politics |
He did host related events at the club during that time and used the facilities at the new St Mary's stadium.
He did not use the clud to directly promote, but did leverage the facilities.
Like I said a different time. | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:03 - Mar 27 with 1043 views | soupytwist |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:46 - Mar 27 by bsw72 |
I'm surprised that Southampton has not been mentioned, considering that Rupert Lowe was the chairman for many years, spouting his political rhetoric as a member of the Referendum party at the time. Obviously his rise with Reform and now Restore Britain has been moer recent, but he was still quite political when running the club.
Just shows how different the political spectrum has become in last 20 years, and far more fractured. |
Was it not Rupert Lowe who criticised the club quite heavily a while back over an advert for an academy coach that suggested that priority would be given to ethnic minority applicants under a Premier League scheme that encouraged such things?
Given that the advert was subsequently pulled, perhaps we should have seen the writing on the wall at that point. |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:16 - Mar 27 with 964 views | bsw72 |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:43 - Mar 27 by Vic |
For me personally it's not the fact that it was Farage - which is why I wasn't an early adopter of the furore, despite despising the man and all his politics.
For me it is that we've been lied to. |
Do you think that the club has never lied before then, for example, remember when Hutchinson was unwell so was not available at the start of the season?
I'm pretty sure that the club has lied or at the very least been incredibly selective about what truths they reveal.
It's just this one has upset people nmore because of what it is about. | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:20 - Mar 27 with 914 views | TheMoralMajority |
Indeed.
Add to that "I don't care who Ashton had lunch with, it's all a storm in a teacup" to the list of disingenuous strawman arguments. Like anyone gives a toss who Ashton chooses to dine with, and that is the real issue here.
Keep politics out of football, no matter the flavour. And if you do get caught screwing up, effing own it. |  |
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| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:31 - Mar 27 with 871 views | bsw72 |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:52 - Mar 27 by jaseitfc2015 |
100% agree that no political party should be allowed to use the club in the way slime ball Farage has
That said I think we’d likely just see roles reversed if it were Labour or Greens used on here - there would be some that would have the same reaction , me being one
But as you said , this is precisely why the club shouldn’t dabble in politics
I did politics (for my sins and because I was stupid) at uni about 15 years ago and used to wish people were more political - now I can’t fking stand it…. Town was my wonderful escape from the sh1te of the modern world but Ashton has messed that up |
So if Farage had a private meeting at the club, with Ashton etc, and been gifted some shirts without the publicity - would that have been acceptable?
You don't have to answer, and it's not a direct question to you - it's more of an internal thought as to what the trigger is that makes this issue what it has become for a lot of people.
1 - Just the fact he was at the ground?
2 - The above but got gifted some merch etc, had lunch with Chairman etc
3 - Both the above, but then plastered it over social media, making it look like a Reform event.
4 - All the above, plus compounded by the differing stories coming out of the club.
5 - Everything 1-4 plus the ongoing silence.
After all, if a far right politician visits a football ground, but no-one knows about it publicly, does it still make a sound . . . | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:33 - Mar 27 with 845 views | HighgateBlue |
I agree that it would be different people being upset. I also agree that it would be equally unacceptable, and I further think that the cover-up (seemingly lying to fans) has been worse than the initial error of judgment. And that cover-up is not affected by who the controversial/unacceptable/(insert adjective of preference here) politician is.
I am of a very centrist persuasion, and strongly pro-EU. So I have no time for Farage or his party.
However, much like with the EU debate itself, it is easy to forget how many other people there are who don't think like oneself. Reform are very popular in the polls, and still favourites to have most seats at the next election. I think that the people with the most time/ability to be on TWTD in the day are probably people with white collar jobs (if that means much anymore). This is a cohort with which Reform has traditionally not done so well.
So I do think that there will be a certain echo chamber on TWTD that is not wholly representative of the fanbase at large.
I am emphatically not one of them, but I imagine that there may well be a couple of thousand season ticket holders who were actively pleased to see Farage at the club. Many more will not have been that bothered, or think it was stupid but that we should move on.
I'm not really arguing a point here, I'm just musing on your thread, which invites us to consider the reactions of the fanbase. I think it's worth remembering, whenever there is 'whatabouttery' in relation to what fans' reactions would be, that TWTD (which I love) is not identical to the fanbase of ITFC (which I also love).
None of the above means that (a) the club handled the incident reasonably at the time, (b) the club handled the fallout at all adequately, or that (c) Ashton should stay in post. Or indeed his other post. Or indeed whatever other posts he's given himself when nobody was looking. |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:37 - Mar 27 with 809 views | vilanovablue |
Some idiot on Twitter suggested other politicians have done the same with Ipswich and I am struggling to recall anyone! I don't an apolitical club having any politicians doing what Farage has done, full stop! |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:44 - Mar 27 with 758 views | NedPlimpton |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 12:59 - Mar 27 by bsw72 |
He did host related events at the club during that time and used the facilities at the new St Mary's stadium.
He did not use the clud to directly promote, but did leverage the facilities.
Like I said a different time. |
Southampton fans wanted Lowe out of their club. Not sure this is a great example |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:57 - Mar 27 with 668 views | OldFart71 |
Maybe Farage used the club, maybe he didn't. Presumably his Party paid the going rate.
So what is the problem.
I haven't seen and don't expect to see leaflets in the next home game programs with "Vote for Reform" in them.
Of course we will be vilified by those with an axe to grind.
No doubt it will give Budgie supporters a reason to chirp when we play them. So what, water off a ducks back.
Get on with supporting our team, don't be divided by this minor blip. We have some games to win and need to pull together. Politics should keep out of sport . | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 14:00 - Mar 27 with 640 views | Butterbing |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:57 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Maybe Farage used the club, maybe he didn't. Presumably his Party paid the going rate.
So what is the problem.
I haven't seen and don't expect to see leaflets in the next home game programs with "Vote for Reform" in them.
Of course we will be vilified by those with an axe to grind.
No doubt it will give Budgie supporters a reason to chirp when we play them. So what, water off a ducks back.
Get on with supporting our team, don't be divided by this minor blip. We have some games to win and need to pull together. Politics should keep out of sport . |
"Politics should keep out of sport" |  | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 14:08 - Mar 27 with 601 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:31 - Mar 27 by bsw72 |
So if Farage had a private meeting at the club, with Ashton etc, and been gifted some shirts without the publicity - would that have been acceptable?
You don't have to answer, and it's not a direct question to you - it's more of an internal thought as to what the trigger is that makes this issue what it has become for a lot of people.
1 - Just the fact he was at the ground?
2 - The above but got gifted some merch etc, had lunch with Chairman etc
3 - Both the above, but then plastered it over social media, making it look like a Reform event.
4 - All the above, plus compounded by the differing stories coming out of the club.
5 - Everything 1-4 plus the ongoing silence.
After all, if a far right politician visits a football ground, but no-one knows about it publicly, does it still make a sound . . . |
For me it’s the use of the clubs imagery , branding , facilities , etc for their political broadcasts - Reforms video appears as an endorsement from the club and that to me is the issue
I wouldn’t have an issue if he has a private meeting with Ashton
The shirts as gifts wouldn’t come into it if first he’s not allowed to use PR / the club in his political broadcasts , photos - the existence of those shirts makes Ashtons position even worse
If the shirts were printed for 10 members of the Farage family and are given as a private gift , that is different | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 14:27 - Mar 27 with 529 views | bsw72 |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 13:44 - Mar 27 by NedPlimpton |
Southampton fans wanted Lowe out of their club. Not sure this is a great example |
I'm not holding it up as a comparison or example of anything in particular - it just popped into my head that an equally unpleasant politician was once actually a chairman of a pretty high profile football club.
And the fans wanted him out at the end, but not at the beginning.
Talking of Southampton owners, I remember listening to Gavyn Davies talk about his failed takeover bid for Southampton (~1996) when he was at Goldmans at an internal event hosted by Jim O'Neil who is a mad Man Utd Fan (his printer was called Keane), I think Lowe got in after that Davies bid failed.
The one thing that has always stuck in my head from Davies was he said that "The only way to make a small fortune out of owning a football club is to start with a large fortune". Still makes me smile to this day. | | | |
| "There wouldn't be this outrage if it was Starmer or Polanski" on 15:14 - Mar 27 with 439 views | BlueForYou |
It wouldn't bother me in the slightest whoever chooses to visit the club. I don't see why anyone should be turned away. Polanski, Khan, Badenoch, Trump, the EU president, all welcome & hope they get well looked after. |  | | |
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