| Prime minister at the next election 06:30 - May 12 with 1688 views | gtsb1966 |
IF (they won't) the Labour party manage to get Burnham through the door then they win the next election. If it's Streeting then it's Farage. It really is as simple as that. They have one chance and they'll blow it. |  | | |  |
| Prime minister at the next election on 06:37 - May 12 with 1299 views | LeoMuff |
It feels so obvious, Streeting will also be unelectable |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 06:41 - May 12 with 1286 views | gtsb1966 |
| Prime minister at the next election on 06:37 - May 12 by LeoMuff |
It feels so obvious, Streeting will also be unelectable |
If it's Streeting you might as well have a general election now and get the Farage years out of the way. | | | |
| Prime minister at the next election on 06:44 - May 12 with 1273 views | Perublue |
All the potential candidates have issues … it’s the party itself that is completely lost and doesn’t know which way to turn.
I feel personally nobody can save them as which ever way they turn they’re screwed.
They’ve painted themselves into a corner. [Post edited 12 May 6:45]
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| Prime minister at the next election on 07:18 - May 12 with 1161 views | Plums |
| Prime minister at the next election on 06:44 - May 12 by Perublue |
All the potential candidates have issues … it’s the party itself that is completely lost and doesn’t know which way to turn.
I feel personally nobody can save them as which ever way they turn they’re screwed.
They’ve painted themselves into a corner. [Post edited 12 May 6:45]
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I'm beginning to wonder if it's not a Labour problem (although they seem to have enough of them) but a UK problem. The political narrative has become so polarised and binary that the country is actually ungovernable regardless of who has the keys to number 10.
It's become so tribal that irrespective of whether a policy is for the national good, it will be opposed and shouted down because it 'wasn't invented here'. Is it too late? |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 07:21 - May 12 with 1141 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Prime minister at the next election on 06:37 - May 12 by LeoMuff |
It feels so obvious, Streeting will also be unelectable |
I can see Starmer still being PM when the next election is held. He has ridden out a lot of challenge already.
One thing is for sure, if Burnham were to become leader (PM) - and I don't think he will - the media will rapidly be finding reasons why he is unsuitable and decrying him as the worst and least popular PM ever. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 08:04 - May 12 with 1032 views | Guthrum |
| Prime minister at the next election on 07:18 - May 12 by Plums |
I'm beginning to wonder if it's not a Labour problem (although they seem to have enough of them) but a UK problem. The political narrative has become so polarised and binary that the country is actually ungovernable regardless of who has the keys to number 10.
It's become so tribal that irrespective of whether a policy is for the national good, it will be opposed and shouted down because it 'wasn't invented here'. Is it too late? |
It's been somewhat like that for decades, but the increased polarisation - and more money flowing into some of the outer edges - has sharpened the problem.
A major issue Labour has is that, being an old-style monolithic bloc, it contains many shades of opinion. There is an internal struggle for direction. They are now battling against more ideologically cohesive units such as Reform and the Greens (who, while being far from actually uniform, are small enough to present that way). After the 2019 purge, even the Conservatives have more united, if liable to fragment due to personal ambition).
It's the children's book archetype of a lumbering brontosaur (with a brain at both ends) beset by a horde of agile, sharp raptors.
Labour also have the problem of having to deal with the real world - which isn't cooperative - as opposed to the blue-sky promises of the challengers, as yet unbesmirched by an actual track record in government. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 09:51 - May 12 with 908 views | baxterbasics |
| Prime minister at the next election on 08:04 - May 12 by Guthrum |
It's been somewhat like that for decades, but the increased polarisation - and more money flowing into some of the outer edges - has sharpened the problem.
A major issue Labour has is that, being an old-style monolithic bloc, it contains many shades of opinion. There is an internal struggle for direction. They are now battling against more ideologically cohesive units such as Reform and the Greens (who, while being far from actually uniform, are small enough to present that way). After the 2019 purge, even the Conservatives have more united, if liable to fragment due to personal ambition).
It's the children's book archetype of a lumbering brontosaur (with a brain at both ends) beset by a horde of agile, sharp raptors.
Labour also have the problem of having to deal with the real world - which isn't cooperative - as opposed to the blue-sky promises of the challengers, as yet unbesmirched by an actual track record in government. |
It does feel like the model of large parties encompassing a broad church of opinion is becoming increasingly broken. Britain is ungovernable.
I've no love for Starmer but can't see how changing the man at the top improves anything, in terms of longer term electoral prospects. There's too much focus on who is PM not enough on collective governance, IMO.
If the fringe parties get any handle on power they will soon come up against the same problems. Dissatisfied electorate, in-fighting, scandal, personal ambitions getting in the way.
I hope both Labour and the Conservatives can get their houses in order and we can go back to the good old days of a straight red vs blue fight. But this feels very optimistic. Genie is out of the bottle. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:00 - May 12 with 882 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Prime minister at the next election on 07:21 - May 12 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I can see Starmer still being PM when the next election is held. He has ridden out a lot of challenge already.
One thing is for sure, if Burnham were to become leader (PM) - and I don't think he will - the media will rapidly be finding reasons why he is unsuitable and decrying him as the worst and least popular PM ever. |
Frightening thing is that all of this is essentially media and social media driven. Ask the average starmer hater what he has actually done wrong and you'll be lucky to hear much more than stop the boats. Which is a tiny issue in the scheme of things and also improving.
His biggest failing is not being an engaging personality and being unable to be aggressive with social media in support of just trying to do things properly rather than stirring hate and rage. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:00 - May 12 with 876 views | DanTheMan |
| Prime minister at the next election on 09:51 - May 12 by baxterbasics |
It does feel like the model of large parties encompassing a broad church of opinion is becoming increasingly broken. Britain is ungovernable.
I've no love for Starmer but can't see how changing the man at the top improves anything, in terms of longer term electoral prospects. There's too much focus on who is PM not enough on collective governance, IMO.
If the fringe parties get any handle on power they will soon come up against the same problems. Dissatisfied electorate, in-fighting, scandal, personal ambitions getting in the way.
I hope both Labour and the Conservatives can get their houses in order and we can go back to the good old days of a straight red vs blue fight. But this feels very optimistic. Genie is out of the bottle. |
> It does feel like the model of large parties encompassing a broad church of opinion is becoming increasingly broken. Britain is ungovernable.
Agree on this. Also, people do not want to accept that things are pretty fundamentally broken and there are no quick fixes, especially without pain.
If there is one thing Starmer should do before he inevitably goes is to get a proper form of proportional representation done so the parties can properly split up into their camps and people can vote accordingly. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:00 - May 12 with 876 views | DarkBrandon |
| Prime minister at the next election on 06:37 - May 12 by LeoMuff |
It feels so obvious, Streeting will also be unelectable |
Why? |  | | |
| Prime minister at the next election on 10:01 - May 12 with 870 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Prime minister at the next election on 09:51 - May 12 by baxterbasics |
It does feel like the model of large parties encompassing a broad church of opinion is becoming increasingly broken. Britain is ungovernable.
I've no love for Starmer but can't see how changing the man at the top improves anything, in terms of longer term electoral prospects. There's too much focus on who is PM not enough on collective governance, IMO.
If the fringe parties get any handle on power they will soon come up against the same problems. Dissatisfied electorate, in-fighting, scandal, personal ambitions getting in the way.
I hope both Labour and the Conservatives can get their houses in order and we can go back to the good old days of a straight red vs blue fight. But this feels very optimistic. Genie is out of the bottle. |
I've no issue with fragmentation if we had pr. Currently it is going to open the door to minority extremists getting past that post first | |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:05 - May 12 with 856 views | Radlett_blue |
| Prime minister at the next election on 10:01 - May 12 by redrickstuhaart |
I've no issue with fragmentation if we had pr. Currently it is going to open the door to minority extremists getting past that post first |
FPTP worked reasonably well in Britain when we had a solid 2 party system & it generally produced reasonable governments, with a mandate (the anti Thatcher brigade would dispute that). However, with the rise of the SNP & more support for the Lib Dems (who always hated its unfairness) plus the recent strength of Reform & the Greens, it's looking somewhat outdated. But would we prefer an Italy-style system where the coalition government routinely collapses almost every year? |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:19 - May 12 with 812 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Prime minister at the next election on 09:51 - May 12 by baxterbasics |
It does feel like the model of large parties encompassing a broad church of opinion is becoming increasingly broken. Britain is ungovernable.
I've no love for Starmer but can't see how changing the man at the top improves anything, in terms of longer term electoral prospects. There's too much focus on who is PM not enough on collective governance, IMO.
If the fringe parties get any handle on power they will soon come up against the same problems. Dissatisfied electorate, in-fighting, scandal, personal ambitions getting in the way.
I hope both Labour and the Conservatives can get their houses in order and we can go back to the good old days of a straight red vs blue fight. But this feels very optimistic. Genie is out of the bottle. |
I agree largely with your analysis, but suggest a different outcome. Our FPTP electoral system is simply unfit for purpose. Even in Suffolk, Reform's landslide win was backed by barely a third of voters.
Burnham has suggested he would introduce PR as a .After of urgency. He realises that kills any chance of a majority for Labour, but equally that a Lab / Lib / Green progressive alliance is not entirely unnatural - likely backed by SNP & PC, who would be strengthened by having that added power in negotiation. (Being mayor of Manchester, Burnham appreciates that local decision making can be a good thing).
Problem is, Burnham.has no obvious route to the top job, at least not in time to change the system... | | | |
| Prime minister at the next election on 10:40 - May 12 with 755 views | BlueRaider |
| Prime minister at the next election on 10:00 - May 12 by redrickstuhaart |
Frightening thing is that all of this is essentially media and social media driven. Ask the average starmer hater what he has actually done wrong and you'll be lucky to hear much more than stop the boats. Which is a tiny issue in the scheme of things and also improving.
His biggest failing is not being an engaging personality and being unable to be aggressive with social media in support of just trying to do things properly rather than stirring hate and rage. |
I'd much rather have an intelligent PM than a charismatic one, but democracy doesn't tend to work like that a lot of the time. | |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:41 - May 12 with 747 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Prime minister at the next election on 10:40 - May 12 by BlueRaider |
I'd much rather have an intelligent PM than a charismatic one, but democracy doesn't tend to work like that a lot of the time. |
Especially when opinion is driven by social media and outright disinformation on a massive scale. | |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 10:56 - May 12 with 704 views | chicoazul |
Both these options are wrong. They need to got for Angela Rayner. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 11:43 - May 12 with 629 views | BloomBlue |
Why do they win the next election with Burnham? I think people are overestimating his popularity.
People voted for Labour because they were fed up with the Tories, including the constant changing of PM, Labour was the stability vote. Labour got there on the ticket of 'we're not them, you won't get the infighting with us'
If they do kick out Starmer then they need a full plan until the next election. Its no good kicking out Starmer now and then go with Streeting (because Burnham isn't an MP). Then in a year kicking out Streeting (because Burnham has won a by-election) and making him PM. That instability will go against them.
The other danger is going purely down the Burnham road. He still has to win a by-election, by-elections are often bad for the party in power. Wheeling him in for one gives the Greens, Reform the perfect basis to attack, so they will need somewhere with a very large Labour majority, and an existing MP to stand down, but still a massive danger he doesn't win it. |  | | |
| Prime minister at the next election on 11:56 - May 12 with 606 views | grow_our_own |
| Prime minister at the next election on 11:43 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Why do they win the next election with Burnham? I think people are overestimating his popularity.
People voted for Labour because they were fed up with the Tories, including the constant changing of PM, Labour was the stability vote. Labour got there on the ticket of 'we're not them, you won't get the infighting with us'
If they do kick out Starmer then they need a full plan until the next election. Its no good kicking out Starmer now and then go with Streeting (because Burnham isn't an MP). Then in a year kicking out Streeting (because Burnham has won a by-election) and making him PM. That instability will go against them.
The other danger is going purely down the Burnham road. He still has to win a by-election, by-elections are often bad for the party in power. Wheeling him in for one gives the Greens, Reform the perfect basis to attack, so they will need somewhere with a very large Labour majority, and an existing MP to stand down, but still a massive danger he doesn't win it. |
The Tories bequeathed Brexit, Trussonomics, and the aftermath of a botched pandemic response. After the 15 years that proceeded Starmer, I'm loving having a govt that is only mildly bad domestically, and with a foreign policy to be proud of. The electorate need to give Labour patience. Fixing things takes time. Enough with the Prime Minister carousel. Six in nine years is plenty.
Having said that, I'd love it if Labour went into the next election promising PR and rejoin. [Post edited 12 May 11:57]
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| Prime minister at the next election on 12:24 - May 12 with 533 views | WeWereZombies |
| Prime minister at the next election on 07:21 - May 12 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I can see Starmer still being PM when the next election is held. He has ridden out a lot of challenge already.
One thing is for sure, if Burnham were to become leader (PM) - and I don't think he will - the media will rapidly be finding reasons why he is unsuitable and decrying him as the worst and least popular PM ever. |
It isn't just newspapers (and I think the influence of social media can be overplayed) but I have seen at first hand over the last week how official channels can mitigate against Labour, we have to tough it out and concentrate on core issues. Having slept on it I think that there were three things wrong with Starmer's speech yesterday:
An appeal to hope over analysis, we need a sharp eye on the economics so that policy is formed to translate into the best defence against the cost of living crisis. And this is something Rachel Reeves did well in the last budget with respect to measures to alleviate child poverty.
A similar appeal to emotion over evidence - see above and also the importance of treating migrants as human beings and not falling into the trap of demonising people for the sake of a few votes.
This idea that he is going to overturn the status quo, he is a former Director of Public Prosecutions of England and Wales fer chrissake, you don't get much more establishment than that. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 12:33 - May 12 with 508 views | Kievthegreat |
It's crazy that Labour can have 400+ MPs, but the only person who can save them isn't one of them. Surely there must be someone good enough in those ranks? |  | | |
| Prime minister at the next election on 12:34 - May 12 with 499 views | WeWereZombies |
| Prime minister at the next election on 12:33 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
It's crazy that Labour can have 400+ MPs, but the only person who can save them isn't one of them. Surely there must be someone good enough in those ranks? |
It's not a question of having someone good enough, it is a matter of having the best - for the party and for the state of our four nations. | |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 12:40 - May 12 with 474 views | Plums |
| Prime minister at the next election on 12:34 - May 12 by WeWereZombies |
It's not a question of having someone good enough, it is a matter of having the best - for the party and for the state of our four nations. |
and sadly, that the press will accept and not demonise. | |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 12:46 - May 12 with 452 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Prime minister at the next election on 07:18 - May 12 by Plums |
I'm beginning to wonder if it's not a Labour problem (although they seem to have enough of them) but a UK problem. The political narrative has become so polarised and binary that the country is actually ungovernable regardless of who has the keys to number 10.
It's become so tribal that irrespective of whether a policy is for the national good, it will be opposed and shouted down because it 'wasn't invented here'. Is it too late? |
I think you’re largely right, but it’s not just the tribal issue it’s also because politics has become deeply disconnected from what helps people.
A lot of people think politics doesn’t work for them and they’re probably right. Business owners feel they’ve been targeted with unfriendly policies. Workers in those businesses have seen their pay decline in real terms (albeit a rise in the last 2-3 years). Our communities have seen politicians choose to take money from our councils resulting in the closure of libraries, youth clubs, etc.
The people that seem to be happy are the bankers, traders and wealth holders who the Chancellor wants to keep happy at any cost to us. There’s no austerity for them.
God I’m sounding like a leftie. But essentially politics is not working for A LOT of people in this country, hence the disconnection and anger. |  |
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| Prime minister at the next election on 13:12 - May 12 with 381 views | The_Major |
Jess Phillips has quit - that's the first relatively big name to do so. |  | | |
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