| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... 20:03 - Jun 5 with 12680 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
He should have been armed |  | | |  |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:52 - Jun 5 with 4451 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:49 - Jun 5 by mutters |
The whole Met? Whatabout the rest of the country? |
Yes the met.
Potentially some other big cities based on intelligence but that should be up to the police on a case by case basis. I was drinking in the Market Porter the other week, if someone came in stabbing people I would want the first officer on scene to be armed. | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:53 - Jun 5 with 4445 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:51 - Jun 5 by vapour_trail |
Mate of mine was a finance director at the met until very recently.
They've had the pips squeezed out of them. Literally. There isn't money there to arm up the met with all the training and safeguarding that would be required. Even if that is what is the solution.
As with all areas of public sector, the government have taken it apart. |
They'll have to find some then | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:54 - Jun 5 with 4434 views | mutters |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:52 - Jun 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes the met.
Potentially some other big cities based on intelligence but that should be up to the police on a case by case basis. I was drinking in the Market Porter the other week, if someone came in stabbing people I would want the first officer on scene to be armed. |
Ok, fair enough its your opinion but it would be a step too far for me.
The police do a great job, but arming them would be too much. Our gun crime is very low compared to other countries and because our police are not always armed, this has something major to do with it IMO.
8 mins to get there. Thats quick. I;d rather my guns be in the hands of a specialist police office rather than every tom dick and harry who signs up! |  |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:00 - Jun 5 with 4423 views | vapour_trail |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:52 - Jun 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes the met.
Potentially some other big cities based on intelligence but that should be up to the police on a case by case basis. I was drinking in the Market Porter the other week, if someone came in stabbing people I would want the first officer on scene to be armed. |
Yeah I've been in there, the wheatsheaf, Southwark tavern et al, many times. Good place to go out.
Mutters has a point though. Arming the force is such a step change you're toking enormous incremental expenditure and you also require cultural change on a serious level. I can't see anyone committing the funds to do it safely.
Plus I don't trust them as a rule, I don't think arming them all is a great idea. |  |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:35 - Jun 5 with 4397 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:00 - Jun 5 by vapour_trail |
Yeah I've been in there, the wheatsheaf, Southwark tavern et al, many times. Good place to go out.
Mutters has a point though. Arming the force is such a step change you're toking enormous incremental expenditure and you also require cultural change on a serious level. I can't see anyone committing the funds to do it safely.
Plus I don't trust them as a rule, I don't think arming them all is a great idea. |
Valid points (apart from the Southwark tavern being good) but as stated before on this thread, Canada and Australia do it and don't have major gun crime problems. | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:46 - Jun 5 with 4380 views | vapour_trail |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:35 - Jun 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Valid points (apart from the Southwark tavern being good) but as stated before on this thread, Canada and Australia do it and don't have major gun crime problems. |
I like those little booths downstairs in the Southwark | |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:53 - Jun 5 with 4376 views | mutters |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:35 - Jun 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Valid points (apart from the Southwark tavern being good) but as stated before on this thread, Canada and Australia do it and don't have major gun crime problems. |
In Australia all hell broke out after the Sandy Hook shootings. Gunlaw changes massively and quickly that nipped it in the bud.
I do agree both those countries have a policy where officers carry guns and they seem to be
a fairly low crime area. | |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:04 - Jun 5 with 4369 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 22:53 - Jun 5 by mutters |
In Australia all hell broke out after the Sandy Hook shootings. Gunlaw changes massively and quickly that nipped it in the bud.
I do agree both those countries have a policy where officers carry guns and they seem to be
a fairly low crime area. |
That wasn't Sandy Hook. | | | |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:19 - Jun 5 with 4360 views | Clapham_Junction |
I thought that at least part of the reason officers aren't armed is that a lot of them don't want to be and the police actually struggle to get people to become armed officers. |  | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:27 - Jun 5 with 4347 views | north_stand77 |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:53 - Jun 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
They'll have to find some then |
Not quite sure where you think any police force is going to get the finances from to train and arm all it's officers, even if it was just the major cities. It would also be a very long time process. They can hardly afford to buy paper clips with the current budgets!
Many of the officers I know would never want to carry a gun anyway and would rather leave the job than do so. There are different types of policing - clearly a firearms unit is neccessary but the majority of policing doesn't require officers to be armed.
I still think that the general public are proud of the fact that British police officers are unarmed which encourages goodwill |  | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:28 - Jun 5 with 4345 views | mutters |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:04 - Jun 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That wasn't Sandy Hook. |
No sorry you are spot on.
It was the Port Arthur incident in the 90s. Sandy Hook was only a few years ago. | |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:49 - Jun 5 with 4319 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:27 - Jun 5 by north_stand77 |
Not quite sure where you think any police force is going to get the finances from to train and arm all it's officers, even if it was just the major cities. It would also be a very long time process. They can hardly afford to buy paper clips with the current budgets!
Many of the officers I know would never want to carry a gun anyway and would rather leave the job than do so. There are different types of policing - clearly a firearms unit is neccessary but the majority of policing doesn't require officers to be armed.
I still think that the general public are proud of the fact that British police officers are unarmed which encourages goodwill |
Even outside of these terrorists incidents there has been a big spike in crime this year in London. People can be proud all they like but I think it is a conversation that should happen. I'd feel more at ease if the met were armed. I am not saying it would be cheap.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/12/met-police-warns-of-sharp-rise-i | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 00:05 - Jun 6 with 4306 views | north_stand77 |
Crime has been on the increase all over the country, year on year. There's simply not enough police officers to deal with it. Cuts have been so severe, people would be shocked at how few officers on duty there are at any one time.
Officers ' on the beat' are most likely to gain intelligence. Talking to people. Sadly there are fewer of them too.
There is no way the Met police, or any other city/ county will be have only armed officers | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:36 - Jun 6 with 4251 views | mikeybloo88 |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 20:35 - Jun 5 by MJallday |
whats so special about london? how would blanket arming the met that have prevented manchester? or other situations like the lee rigby one?
a blanket "give everyone guns" might be how the US operates, but over here in blighty , we work a bit different. fewer guns is a good thing. last thing we want is more on the streets.
so whilst your suggestion might work for the USA, it doesnt work here . |
Why doesn't it work here? Have we tried it? |  | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:41 - Jun 6 with 4247 views | mikeybloo88 |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 23:27 - Jun 5 by north_stand77 |
Not quite sure where you think any police force is going to get the finances from to train and arm all it's officers, even if it was just the major cities. It would also be a very long time process. They can hardly afford to buy paper clips with the current budgets!
Many of the officers I know would never want to carry a gun anyway and would rather leave the job than do so. There are different types of policing - clearly a firearms unit is neccessary but the majority of policing doesn't require officers to be armed.
I still think that the general public are proud of the fact that British police officers are unarmed which encourages goodwill |
I think you should ask the general public that question now... | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:44 - Jun 6 with 4244 views | mikeybloo88 |
The naievity of some who still believe this country will ever be peaceful again and who think that we can still halt crime and terrorism by playing nice is staggering.... | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:52 - Jun 6 with 4231 views | DoobDude |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:44 - Jun 6 by mikeybloo88 |
The naievity of some who still believe this country will ever be peaceful again and who think that we can still halt crime and terrorism by playing nice is staggering.... |
Quite.
It's far more important that our police officers are able to dance around in circles with children. That'll show ISIS we mean business! |  |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:58 - Jun 6 with 4229 views | unbelievablue |
Have you considered the practicalities of this?
Did he want to be armed?
Wasn't he BTP?
[Post edited 6 Jun 2017 10:47]
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 10:30 - Jun 6 with 4212 views | BlueLikeJazz |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 21:27 - Jun 5 by crunchie1978 |
The British transport police officer was the first police officer on the scene appartley...hes now in hospital critical....if he was armed he'd of been able to take these terrorists down earlier...saving lives. |
They're already having trouble recruiting firearms officers.
It really isn't as simple as 'give them a gun and it'll all be fine'. He may well not have wanted to carry a gun, lots of them don't. |  | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 10:47 - Jun 6 with 4203 views | Darth_Koont |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:44 - Jun 6 by mikeybloo88 |
The naievity of some who still believe this country will ever be peaceful again and who think that we can still halt crime and terrorism by playing nice is staggering.... |
I think it's the other way around. We had a 20-year period of playing "nasty" in Northern Ireland with huge loss of life, injury and generally a poorer existence for millions of people.
We play "nice", addressing the underlying causes instead, and the violence practically evaporates. Certainly the violence became sporadic until it largely disappeared.
At present, we're not doing nearly enough to address the underlying issues of Islamist extremism - at home we're reacting with police and security, while overseas we've been prodding a hornet's nest for decades. I wouldn't call that nice or nasty. At best it's naive, at worst it means we're willing to pay a large human cost in order to protect our economic interests and perceived influence. |  |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 12:42 - Jun 6 with 4180 views | north_stand77 |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 08:41 - Jun 6 by mikeybloo88 |
I think you should ask the general public that question now... |
The majority of the public still do not want all police officers armed | | | |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 12:45 - Jun 6 with 4170 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 20:38 - Jun 5 by Mullet |
I actually think the government when it's formed after Thursday should put the idea to the Police to vote on across the country.
I don't feel they should be armed, it leads to escalation, accidents and in some tragic cases officers murdering people. However if those actually doing the job felt it was the right next step, then they should be listened to. It's a step that will never be reversible and so should be taken very carefully. |
Police Federation surveyed members last year apparently, and they were strongly against the idea.
"Mr Macleod discounted any ideas that routinely arming all police was the answer: "When we last surveyed our members, 80% told us they did not want to routinely carry firearms. They do, however want access to better equipment, such as Taser and spit guards.”"
http://www.polfed.org/newsroom/4392.aspx |  |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 12:47 - Jun 6 with 4163 views | unbelievablue |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 12:42 - Jun 6 by north_stand77 |
The majority of the public still do not want all police officers armed |
Same for the officers themselves. | |
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| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 12:49 - Jun 6 with 4157 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The hero London officer who is in a critical condition..... on 10:47 - Jun 6 by Darth_Koont |
I think it's the other way around. We had a 20-year period of playing "nasty" in Northern Ireland with huge loss of life, injury and generally a poorer existence for millions of people.
We play "nice", addressing the underlying causes instead, and the violence practically evaporates. Certainly the violence became sporadic until it largely disappeared.
At present, we're not doing nearly enough to address the underlying issues of Islamist extremism - at home we're reacting with police and security, while overseas we've been prodding a hornet's nest for decades. I wouldn't call that nice or nasty. At best it's naive, at worst it means we're willing to pay a large human cost in order to protect our economic interests and perceived influence. |
It's easier for people to process and channel their frustrations into anger and violence though isn't it. Which is exactly why we need to step back when there are events like these and not rush into hasty decisions which could make situations worse.
Liberty is often hard won but easily lost (or something like that). | |
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